The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
Why are line array speakers so expensive?
Old 5 days ago
  #61
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Papanate View Post
I was just starting out when the V-Dosc and DV-DOSC hit the market - and I remember two particular items about them. They were the most expensive around - and I didn't hire a single A1 FOH that didn't love them. They were absolutely gorgeous in Ballrooms, Venues and the scaled up Sports Arenas.

I will have to disagree with them sounding better than the modern Line Arrays. Most companies have done the engineering and research - like JBL - who now own a significant share of that market.
Your opinion about what sounds better is your opinion....but the FACT is that L-Acoustics, d&b and Meyer own the lions share of the large format PA market.
Old 5 days ago
  #62
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
depends on the drivers - please note that the huge max. output capacity of say up to 135dBA peak (and beyond) from a single large line array element stems from a multitude of speakers inside the cabinet, so there you got your concept of several drivers with lower individual output...


those with smaller lmf woofer typically go wider so amongst other things, efx can often get heard a bit differntly - but there's something to cabinets with 10" or 12" lmf woofers which you just don't get from other diameters: if you're into guitar rock, stick to these!
My point is that more drivers give give more coverage.

I played with a guy who would replace the stock Eminence speaker in his amps with JBL because the JBLs were more efficient. A Fender Twin doesn't need to me "more efficient". The stock speakers sounded better. That said, a highly efficient driver may or may not sound good and it will be more directional than 4 drivers in a larger enclosure.

I've played though 18's and 15's mostly but I have heard 2 X 10 cabs for bass that sounded better for my style. I also played through an 8 x 8 in studio and it sounded better than my rig.



That many speakers move a lot of air.

I look at it like this, if you put 100 - 150 hz on up into the the tops and most 8" or 10" full range driver will handle it well, then all you have to do is amplify 100 or 150 hz on down. The mids and highs will be clean and so will the bottom.

Some speaker sizes are best for certain frequencies. Electric guitars sound good out of 10's and 12's but to get an acoustic to sound its best you need to add something that works best with the highs.

I've thought about using coaxial speakers in a line array or a mix of midrange drivers and dome tweeters. I have an old Ibanez acoustic guitar amp with an 8" coaxial and it sounds good for both voice and guitar.
Old 5 days ago
  #63
Lives for gear
 

of course more drivers (built into more cabinets) make for a longer array and give you more options/better coverage and of course you'll want smaller drivers for the hmf and and hf range (by mentioning 10's or 12's, i was referring to lmf)!

i really start wondering how your custom designed speakers will look like and how they'll perform - keep us posted when you got them built and tested...
Old 4 days ago
  #64
Lives for gear
 

...as i think of it:
line array speakers better be expensive!
or some amateurs start having fun with it...

(2 hangs of 12 j's and 6 j-subs as mains, about 3 dozens of y's as outfills and delay lines)
Attached Thumbnails
Why are line array speakers so expensive?-20200215_013146.jpg   Why are line array speakers so expensive?-20200215_013112.jpg  
Old 4 days ago
  #65
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
...as i think of it:
line array speakers better be expensive!
or some amateurs start having fun with it...

(2 hangs of 12 j's and 6 j-subs as mains, about 3 dozens of y's as outfills and delay lines)
Get in line!
HAHAHAHA

A local church had a "Disney land" installer hang the leopard install and the company hung them upside down to save money on buying the proper rigging. Just because something is expensive doesn't mean people wont do stupid and dangerous things, it hopefully it cuts down on it.
Old 4 days ago
  #66
Lives for gear
 

don't you have any security checks?!

over here, anything must get flown by qualified riggers or actually doesn't even go up if the inspection finds any issues...

and frankly, if you have thousands of people dancing in a venue, as a production manager i must be sure the gear stays up there, even if there's an earthquake!
Old 4 days ago
  #67
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
don't you have any security checks?!

over here, anything must get flown by qualified riggers or actually doesn't even go up if the inspection finds any issues...

and frankly, if you have thousands of people dancing in a venue, as a production manager i must be sure the gear stays up there, even if there's an earthquake!
I wish!

To boot, Meyer people even came out, saw the install was wrong, and din't say anything! I heard since these "great installers" spec our MAJOR Meyer systems the reps didn't want to say anything about the wrong install.

The bad part is that Good installers are loosing business while high volume hack installers get all the word of mouth.

(SO I heard from a different installer.) Next time I'm at the church Ill take pics and check myself.
Old 4 days ago
  #68
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownTheLine View Post
I wish!

To boot, Meyer people even came out, saw the install was wrong, and din't say anything! I heard since these "great installers" spec our MAJOR Meyer systems the reps didn't want to say anything about the wrong install.

The bad part is that Good installers are loosing business while high volume hack installers get all the word of mouth.
i'm having a hard time believing this - there are not many (if any) ways to safely fly gear without using the original bumpers! also, silly installs do damage to reputation so i'm not getting why folks from meyer did not intervene?!

i'll be relocating a meyer system this summer (back into a venue which was closed for renovation) and even though i could do things on my own (except rigging), i'll have a meyer tech bring along their measuring rig...
Old 4 days ago
  #69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
This post is BS....
Maybe to you but it's the truth. Line array speakers are a no brainer for getting clear and balanced sound. It doesn't take an engineer to walk around a room with a db meter and see that the SPL is more balanced from the front to the back of the room when compared to line source systems. Not only that, even Lou Ferrigno could tell the difference.

Line array was not figured out by some geeks, it was generally known since the beginning of sound reinforcement. The science of acoustics was known since ancient Greece.

Old 4 days ago
  #70
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownTheLine View Post
I wish!

To boot, Meyer people even came out, saw the install was wrong, and din't say anything! I heard since these "great installers" spec our MAJOR Meyer systems the reps didn't want to say anything about the wrong install.

The bad part is that Good installers are loosing business while high volume hack installers get all the word of mouth.

(SO I heard from a different installer.) Next time I'm at the church Ill take pics and check myself.
So the Meyer Sound people risked a major catastrophe with their products rather than correct the mistake made by the installers?!?! You know this for a fact?
Old 4 days ago
  #71
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
So the Meyer Sound people risked a major catastrophe with their products rather than correct the mistake made by the installers?!?! You know this for a fact?
I'll have to get the exact details and take pics next time I'm out that way.
It turns out the upside-down-hung speakers were moved to another building on campus, still hung upside down, and a different installer put in another Meyer system in the main building, this one hung correctly.

I already said "(SO I heard from a different installer.) Next time I'm at the church Ill take pics and check myself."

I'll take pics next time I'm there and if I have time maybe get a response from Meyer.
Old 4 days ago
  #72
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
don't you have any security checks?!

over here, anything must get flown by qualified riggers or actually doesn't even go up if the inspection finds any issues...

and frankly, if you have thousands of people dancing in a venue, as a production manager i must be sure the gear stays up there, even if there's an earthquake!
As a professional Mechanical Engineer who have worked on both sides of the pond I find his claim highly dubious too...not that a mistake was made, but that it was left uncorrected even until now although people know about it.

How was this not seen (and demanded it be corrected) by the building/safety inspectors before they got a certificate of occupancy?
Old 4 days ago
  #73
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SingerSongWriter View Post
Maybe to you but it's the truth. Line array speakers are a no brainer for getting clear and balanced sound. It doesn't take an engineer to walk around a room with a db meter and see that the SPL is more balanced from the front to the back of the room when compared to line source systems. Not only that, even Lou Ferrigno could tell the difference.

Line array was not figured out by some geeks, it was generally known since the beginning of sound reinforcement. The science of acoustics was known since ancient Greece.
Sorry to say this, but your posts are infantile at best and don't warrant the time it takes to correct and/or contradict them. I wonder if you're not just here pulling our legs and having a laugh...
Old 4 days ago
  #74
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
As a professional Mechanical Engineer who have worked on both sides of the pond I find his claim highly dubious too...not that a mistake was made, but that it was left uncorrected even until now although people know about it.

How was this not seen (and demanded it be corrected) by the building/safety inspectors before they got a certificate of occupancy?
Well, next time I'm there I will take pictures and send them to Meyer and make people there aware and get a response from them. Until then all I can do is say what I heard, from and industry vet who has no reason to make things up.
Old 4 days ago
  #75
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownTheLine View Post
Well, next time I'm there I will take pictures and send them to Meyer and make people there aware and get a response from them. Until then all I can do is say what I heard, from and industry vet who has no reason to make things up.
The person who told you about it may, or may not have a reason to lie, but he could be mistaken. In your original post about this you stated it as if you knew it to be a fact...now you claim it's hearsay, and Meyer's name is all over it.
Old 4 days ago
  #76
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
The person who told you about it may, or may not have a reason to lie, but he could be mistaken. In your original post about this you stated it as if you knew it to be a fact...now you claim it's hearsay, and Meyer's name is all over it.
I was there with the speakers hung upside down. I wasn't there when the new system got installed or when the discussion between installers, reps, and staff happened.

I am assuming that the hagd is LEGAL and safe, yet lacking intended degree of adjustment because of the cost cutting option to hang upside down.

If the church accepted a bid and the install was done according to that bid, and if it was still safe then Meyer reps have nothing to gain mentioning it to the staff.

But like you said, heresy doesn't mean much, so nothing else said matters until pics and a response show up.
Old 4 days ago
  #77
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownTheLine View Post
the company hung them upside down to save money on buying the proper rigging
btw: what does 'upside down' mean? tops flown above subs? - that'd be one thing...

[and there can even be reasons for doing so albeit very, very seldom imo - meyer most likely would have been alerted though as the calculations via the mapp design tool (still?) get done on their computers afaik; i'm not even sure mapp allows you doing this...
(busy bringing my system up again in a new venue after a rather short night so not much in checking it out myself)]

...but even if it's just turning the cabinets upside down, i'm not getting it: imo there is simply no mechanical reason for doing so!

[i admit that i get to work less with meyer (or martin but with d&b and l'acoustics these days) so i'm not familiar with all details of their flyware by heart; however, having used most of their systems as a sound tech and occasionally even worked as a system tech for a company using various meyer systems, i'm quite a bit experienced and yet i can't even think of any advantage for flying their speakers 'upside down']

so yes, i'd be curious to see pics!
Old 4 days ago
  #78
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownTheLine View Post
I was there with the speakers hung upside down. I wasn't there when the new system got installed or when the discussion between installers, reps, and staff happened.

I am assuming that the hagd is LEGAL and safe, yet lacking intended degree of adjustment because of the cost cutting option to hang upside down.

If the church accepted a bid and the install was done according to that bid, and if it was still safe then Meyer reps have nothing to gain mentioning it to the staff.

But like you said, heresy doesn't mean much, so nothing else said matters until pics and a response show up.
But...even here you continue to make accusatory noises while admitting you do NOT have any first-hand knowledge about the specifics and details of the situation. Many of the things you wrote in previous posts are incendiary and are not based on fact.

Quote:
A local church had a "Disney land" installer hang the leopard install and the company hung them upside down to save money on buying the proper rigging. Just because something is expensive doesn't mean people wont do stupid and dangerous things, it hopefully it cuts down on it.
Quote:
To boot, Meyer people even came out, saw the install was wrong, and din't say anything! I heard since these "great installers" spec our MAJOR Meyer systems the reps didn't want to say anything about the wrong install.

The bad part is that Good installers are loosing business while high volume hack installers get all the word of mouth.
Old 3 days ago
  #79
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
But...even here you continue to make accusatory noises while admitting you do NOT have any first-hand knowledge about the specifics and details of the situation. Many of the things you wrote in previous posts are incendiary and are not based on fact.

Good news, since the speakers have been moved to the second location they are hung the correct way with proper rigging.

Just to recap, a well known installer was flown in, flew a left, center, and right system of 5 speaker hangs upside down. that is first hand experience.

What happened in between the Minas being taken down and flown correctly in the other building is just second hand.
If the opposite of what I was told happened then I apologize for spreading false second hand info. Either way the fact they are hung correctly and safely now is what matters, and hopefully the installer won't do crazy things like this again.
Old 2 days ago
  #80
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownTheLine View Post
Good news, since the speakers have been moved to the second location they are hung the correct way with proper rigging.

Just to recap, a well known installer was flown in, flew a left, center, and right system of 5 speaker hangs upside down. that is first hand experience.

What happened in between the Minas being taken down and flown correctly in the other building is just second hand.
If the opposite of what I was told happened then I apologize for spreading false second hand info. Either way the fact they are hung correctly and safely now is what matters, and hopefully the installer won't do crazy things like this again.
You DO NOT know if anything dangerous, unsafe, crazy or incorrect was done. You also don't know if and why the loudspeakers were hung the way they were, stop making accusations and insinuations that you can't substantiate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownTheLine View Post
I am assuming that the hagd is LEGAL and safe, yet lacking intended degree of adjustment because of the cost cutting option to hang upside down.
What makes an upside down hang unsafe or limited by the way? As far as I know these loudspeakers have the same load bearing capacity regardless of which sense they are hung.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump