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XR 16/18 experts - help with security needed
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
XR 16/18 experts - help with security needed

I ahve an XR-16 and I am trying to setup a secure WEP. I have followed all instructions I have found to create a password protected WEP for this, power cycled several times, initialised to factory settings and re-done the whole process five times. It STILL refuses to be accessible via password!

And I ahve used the hard reset button on the XR prior to each attempt to set this.

Using the laptop over WI-FI and under the available networks it only shows the XR as an open network, when I click on it to connect it does not ask for any password even though this has been set in the PC Editing app setup page.

Can anyone advise exactly how you do setup a secure WEP?

Thanks

And please, at this stage, no comments re using a separate router!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
Gear Addict
 

Afraid I will have to make the mandatory comment that you should not even consider using this mixer for an event without an external router.

But, for home use and setup, there's no problem with using the internal access point, albeit that it's slower. I've had no problem in configuring the WEP password previously.

I don't have my XR18 to play with right now.

Two things to watch:
- The WEP key has to be either 5 or 13 characters long - I can't remember if the app warns you if you've got this wrong.
- After you've typed in the WEP key (and maybe a custom SSID) and clicked on Apply, you need to restart the internal Access Point - go to the network switch on the unit, move it to the left, and then back to Access Point again.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
haha - yeah thx (re external)

I had not thought (or found) that instruction re moving the switch. I'll try that thanks!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #4
Lives for gear
Had some friends who didn't set up an external router. Soundcheck went fine. They lost all connection when the audience walked in with their cellphones.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5
Thanks, but they are the stories I do NOT want at this stage! All I am trying to do is get the bloody thing working at home first, I can talk about external routers later!!!

At this stage nothing works! I cannot even change the LAN to DHCP it seems to want to stay "fixed" on Static...so All I can do at this stage is connect via open wi-fi using the inbuilt router as nothing and I mean NOTHING else works, or even hints at working!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #6
Got it working! Now on to trying to sort the LAN issues and why it will not either see the LAN connection or even allow a change to DHCP from Static.

Although with a 13 digit passcode, I'm not sure I would need the external router? Or are they harder to hack into for some reason?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #7
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pax_eterna View Post
Got it working! Now on to trying to sort the LAN issues and why it will not either see the LAN connection or even allow a change to DHCP from Static.

Although with a 13 digit passcode, I'm not sure I would need the external router? Or are they harder to hack into for some reason?
We can say it again, just get it going with an external router and everything will become simple again.

You've finally got the internal AP working. A handy tool but you've already discovered that, simple as it is, it's very opaque to debug.

Now you're trying to make it work on an existing LAN. I had loads of trouble with this. And, even now that it's all working for me, I often have to have one or two tries to connect it up, again, flicking the network switch away from LAN and back again. But I'll sometimes put up with this limitation at home, as I'm too lazy to get out its external router - hardly difficult, though.

You really just need to trust what *everyone* is telling you and just get the external router set up - everything suddenly becomes easier and faster - and reliable.

The internal AP is build as cheaply as possible, but is also built to be globally certified. This means it's the lowest common denominator of all global standards, including its power. If you're in the US, then it means that an external router will have more power. Yes, you can set up an external router more securely than WEP, but that's not the main reason.

More importantly, what you *will* discover, sooner or later, is exactly what 2manyrocks said - it'll work fine in soundcheck, then you'll lose the connection to it when punters come in.

You're welcome to follow the line of trying to use the internal AP and just make it work. Just please don't come back complaining when (and it's *when*, not *if) you've been bitten in a show.

Of course, the other option is to have a wired connection, which is the most reliable, and can be direct into the mixer. But I get the feeling you'll be even less interested in that.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #8
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlecSp View Post
We can say it again, just get it going with an external router and everything will become simple again.

You've finally got the internal AP working. A handy tool but you've already discovered that, simple as it is, it's very opaque to debug.

Now you're trying to make it work on an existing LAN. I had loads of trouble with this. And, even now that it's all working for me, I often have to have one or two tries to connect it up, again, flicking the network switch away from LAN and back again. But I'll sometimes put up with this limitation at home, as I'm too lazy to get out its external router - hardly difficult, though.

You really just need to trust what *everyone* is telling you and just get the external router set up - everything suddenly becomes easier and faster - and reliable.

The internal AP is build as cheaply as possible, but is also built to be globally certified. This means it's the lowest common denominator of all global standards, including its power. If you're in the US, then it means that an external router will have more power. Yes, you can set up an external router more securely than WEP, but that's not the main reason.

More importantly, what you *will* discover, sooner or later, is exactly what 2manyrocks said - it'll work fine in soundcheck, then you'll lose the connection to it when punters come in.

You're welcome to follow the line of trying to use the internal AP and just make it work. Just please don't come back complaining when (and it's *when*, not *if) you've been bitten in a show.

Of course, the other option is to have a wired connection, which is the most reliable, and can be direct into the mixer. But I get the feeling you'll be even less interested in that.
Thanks Alec, - hahaha, no I'm not the type that complains about an issue that I have been given advice about but choose to go another way. That is all on me! I just kick myself in the butt and get on with whatever works!

The confusing thing here is I have read stories of users that have had no issues with using the internal (albeit with WEP enabled) - the line being what punters are going to go out to a show and deliberately try and sabotage it? In which case, well, regardless of what you do those folks are going to be determined enough to [email protected]#k you up no matter what hahaha!

I really understand what folks are saying with the external router thing, and I am sure there is a lot of truth in it as well. I have a couple of spare ones here I can use if necessary, and indeed I tried using one but could not get the LAN to work with it! Hell I could not even log in to the router settings, without it needing a live internet connection. So I thought, well, I have the internal working with a passcode, my needs are pretty modest so I will run with the internal for now, under caution that it may glitch - and see how much that really affects my personal setup and gigs I do.

I do, however, really appreciate the time you took to respond! Thanks
Old 4 weeks ago
  #9
Now, getting this LAN to work, is another challenge hahaha!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #10
Gear Head
 

I think there's a big misunderstanding of the fundamental issue here: The problem isn't people trying to hack in to your mixer. Maybe that happens, maybe sometimes. The problem is when a room fills up with phones, the combined wifi traffic begins to bottleneck & dropouts ensue and you're stuck with no control of your mixer.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #11
Lives for gear
I haven't had to change my setup in so long that I've forgotten the specific steps. However, I do remember that I followed Behringer's instructional video step by step and in order of the steps as they gave them to set up an external router. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLqc_4Q4ERY
Old 3 weeks ago
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Valentine View Post
I think there's a big misunderstanding of the fundamental issue here: The problem isn't people trying to hack in to your mixer. Maybe that happens, maybe sometimes. The problem is when a room fills up with phones, the combined wifi traffic begins to bottleneck & dropouts ensue and you're stuck with no control of your mixer.
But surely that happens with no mater what device you are using, yes? And I have read that these smartphones pretty much ignore any wi-fi signal that is secured by default..so even if the room's phones area searching your secured one is pretty much okay.....unless I have misunderstood what was written?

In any case I am going to get a 5g router, just as it seems a smart thing to do
Old 3 weeks ago
  #13
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks View Post
I haven't had to change my setup in so long that I've forgotten the specific steps. However, I do remember that I followed Behringer's instructional video step by step and in order of the steps as they gave them to set up an external router. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLqc_4Q4ERY
Cool, thx
Old 3 weeks ago
  #14
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pax_eterna View Post
But surely that happens with no mater what device you are using, yes? And I have read that these smartphones pretty much ignore any wi-fi signal that is secured by default..so even if the room's phones area searching your secured one is pretty much okay.....unless I have misunderstood what was written?

In any case I am going to get a 5g router, just as it seems a smart thing to do
It doesn't happen as much with external routers/access points.

Analogy time: Say you're getting ready for a gig in an empty auditorium. You, on stage, call out in a loud indoor voice--no microphone--to the sound tech at the back of the room to ask for more of yourself in the monitors. (That's pretty much always the request, isn't it?) In the empty room, the sound tech hears you and takes appropriate action.

Now imagine the same sort of situation, but this time there's a large crowd of people chit-chatting among themselves and getting seated. Your voice from the stage probably would get lost in the ambient noise. However, if you asked your friend the classically trained opera singer to make the same request, your friend perhaps could make themselves heard over the din thanks to greater projection and volume.

The built-in wireless is like a soft-voiced crooner. The external access point is more like the opera singer. An unauthorized connection to either one would be more akin to some random person from the audience walking up to the sound guy and saying you said to turn yourself way way down in the monitors. That could be a problem, but the more likely and common difficulty is just noise.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #15
Yep I get that, makes sense. thx
Old 3 weeks ago
  #16
Lives for gear
If your trying to make a cable connection between the mixer and a laptop then one factor you need to know is that you need a CROSSOVER cable. Not a regular cable.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #17
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
If your trying to make a cable connection between the mixer and a laptop then one factor you need to know is that you need a CROSSOVER cable. Not a regular cable.
Pretty sure that's wrong, but can't confirm without my XR18 in front of me. I know for certain that I've connected direct into an X32 with a regular network cable.

This article, written by one of Behringer's support folk, is quite a helpful step-by-step guide to setting up with the X-AIR mixers in all of the network permutations.

All this demonstrates how all of these surfaceless mixers stand or fall by their network configurations. To some users, this is bread and butter. To others, it's all alien, and they end up giving up as the mixer "just doesn't work" - when in reality it's the networking not configured properly. To be more encouraging, once you're up and running, you tend to leave these problems behind (unless of course, you're daft enough to run shows using the internal AP)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #18
Lives for gear
To clarify what I suspect was meant is that the wired connection between an XR and a laptop uses an ethernet cable.

But....try finding a new laptop with an ethernet port these days.

IMO, Behringer to their credit has made a real effort to educate customers how to setup their XRs both on the Music Tribe website where the written instructions are located and on Youtube where they have posted a number of short, instructional videos. I'm not a Raspberry Pi or Chromebook user, but it impresses me that Behringer has made their control app available for these operating systems, too, which allows for the option of using a very tiny computer as a wired control device over ethernet connection instead of using wifi.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #19
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlecSp View Post
Pretty sure that's wrong, but can't confirm without my XR18 in front of me. I know for certain that I've connected direct into an X32 with a regular network cable.
Maybe its a Mac issue. Maybe it was a quirk of my X18 which they fixed with the XR18 yet if your having problems with a regular network cable, try a crossover network cable.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #20
got it all working with LAN now as well. Regular LAN cable (I have a hunch that the cross-over cable is actually for connecting two PC's via LAN).

Issue with mine was that the X Air Edit app on the PC was sending the changes over to the XR (using wi-fi) as in me trying to set it to DHCP mode, but for some reason the setting just didn't "take"...even though it was tried several times and the app indicated success! another user at music tribe also echoed this behaviour!

I had an old Netgear N600 dual band which I am using short term while I try to find something more compact - maybe something like https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/TP-Link-...s/123890300269 .

Anyhoo onward and upward - I also need to investigate the huge iPhone battery drain using an App called Mixing Station with the XR over wifi! Bout 15-17% an hour.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #21
Gear Head
 

Is your screen brightness on max? 15-17% an hour isn't surprising if so.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Valentine View Post
Is your screen brightness on max? 15-17% an hour isn't surprising if so.
ahh, ok thx Jason - yeah it is up a bit!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #23
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by pax_eterna View Post
got it all working with LAN now as well. Regular LAN cable (I have a hunch that the cross-over cable is actually for connecting two PC's via LAN)...
Your hunch was right, but it has aged out.

The last network port or Ethernet NIC made without Auto MDI-X is probably in a landfill by now. Once MDI-X became cheap as a normal function of an Ethernet port, the need for crossover cables vanished.
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