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Signal Strength Cut In Half?!
Old 25th February 2019
  #1
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Exclamation Signal Strength Cut In Half?!

Hey all. I've been playing out with a certain setup for awhile now and it's a crap shoot of what happens when FOH engineers plug my setup into their mixer.

My setup is this.

1. Rc 300, TC Helicon Play Acoustic, and RC 505 are all going out in multiple ways through the sub and left and right outputs.
These outs go into a mixer that I run my in ears from (this mixer has nothing to do with the FOH mix by the way as I...

2. Run the outs from the RC 300 and everything into an ART 8 channel splitter which in turn splits out to the house (it's a snake). There are two outs on the splitter for each input. The other outs on the splitter go into my own mixer for in ear monitoring.

The ISSUE is this.

About 10% of my shows I run into a huge problem. I run a nice little sound check for myself to set up my monitor mix and then I give FOH the snake which is running from the ART splitter. As soon as they plug it in their mixer, the signal is automatically cut in half! (in my headphones as well as FOH) I used to think it was because phantom power was on the FOH mixer but it turns out thats not always the case.

There was also an instance where the signal cut in half but we mixed it anyway. However as soon as we turned the speakers on it came back. LOUD and obnoxiously PROUD. This being said, it isn't always the case. So I'm thinking (hoping) it's my rig that's the problem.

This a simple setup and it works. When it works I can hear myself really well and USUALLY the FOH can work with the signals I'm sending them. I'll also add that 90% of sound engineers I've worked with have stated they love my setup cause it's pretty much like controlling a studio mix without the hassles of a computer. That's when it the issue doesn't arise though.

ANYWAY

I've worked with Midas mixers which are no issue but i'm finding it pretty common with basically any 12 or 16 channel board that can record a performance. Smaller shows. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I'm also running everything wireless (instruments) but I've plugged directly in before and it didn't change anything.
Old 27th February 2019
  #2
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You are dealing with line levels and mic level inputs. Make sure you have all your interface between those two right. I did not see a model number for the ART "MIC" splitter but what I did see is MIC inputs and MIC level outputs. This is a much lower voltage then a line level.
Old 27th February 2019
  #3
S21
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... Or a balanced signal getting cut 6dB by having one side of the balanced signal lost or shorted to ground?
Old 27th February 2019
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToneG View Post
The ISSUE is this.

About 10% of my shows I run into a huge problem. I run a nice little sound check for myself to set up my monitor mix and then I give FOH the snake which is running from the ART splitter. As soon as they plug it in their mixer, the signal is automatically cut in half! (in my headphones as well as FOH) I used to think it was because phantom power was on the FOH mixer but it turns out thats not always the case.

There was also an instance where the signal cut in half but we mixed it anyway. However as soon as we turned the speakers on it came back. LOUD and obnoxiously PROUD. This being said, it isn't always the case. So I'm thinking (hoping) it's my rig that's the problem.
What is the model number of your splitter, are the splitter outputs isolated, do all your signals get attenuated in these instances or only some of them...If only some, which ones?
Old 31st March 2019
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro Sound Guy View Post
You are dealing with line levels and mic level inputs... I did not see a model number for the ART "MIC" splitter but what I did see is MIC inputs and MIC level outputs.
I am most definitely dealing with line and mic levels. I use mono outs of the looper to go into an ART S8 8-channel Microphone Splitter. Could the issue be that I’m using mono 1/4 inch instrument cables and plugging them into the splitter with an xlr to 1/4 inch adapter? That could pose the issue for the attenuation issue, right? Also note this doesn’t happen with every mixer. It RARELY happens.

Thanks for your input! No pun intended LOL
Old 31st March 2019
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
What is the model number of your splitter, are the splitter outputs isolated, do all your signals get attenuated in these instances or only some of them...If only some, which ones?
I stated the model number of the splitter in another reply. None of the inputs are attenuated. I do use the ground lift when there’s a ground issue though. It happens frequently so I just leave them on. When I do use the -29 dB attenuators, it cuts the signal pretty bad and it doesn’t boost it. I never use them in other words, even for the line level inputs.

And yes all the inputs and outputs are isolated. One going into my mixer for my IEM mix and the other going out to the snake. Hope this helps! Thank you for your assistance!
Old 31st March 2019
  #7
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The RC300 offers line level outs for guitar and balanced outputs for vocal
The RC505 appears to offer line level outputs.
Why not skip the ART splitter and run the RC300 and RC505 into channel inputs on your mixer paying attention to LINE input/output and Mic level input/output connections.
The mixer should offer LINE 1/4" input for each channel and MIC Xlr input for each channel.
Run your IEM's of the AUX 1 output set to pre and not post and send that AUX 1 mix to your IEM's.
Send the FOH people your main output from your mixer.
This is called a sub mix.
Old 5th April 2019
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro Sound Guy View Post
Send the FOH people your main output from your mixer.
This is called a sub mix.
Thanks for the reply. First off to answer your question, I like a clean mix. So I take the outs of my splitter (5 outs) and give it to the soundtech. That way they have all my instruments to ride the faders with. Sure, a workaround would be to give them a stereo signal while I set the room mix but I don’t trust my ear in a live setting. I prefer to give them more control than just a stereo signal. I trust sound techs as usually the ones I work with are top notch. It’s my side that is the issue sometimes.

As for the line outs and balance out for the mic on the RC300...

My mic goes into a TC helicon which I split one way to the splitter and my in ears then another way into the RC505. I don’t put vocals through my RC300 at all. Only thing I use it for is my Electric GtR (left out) my acoustic GtR (right out) and my drum loops which come out of the sub out. That’s three. The RC505 only records my BKGD Vocals cause Boss decided to have one dedicated output for a five track looper which is BEYOND me and a waste of a great idea. So I’m limited.

That’s why I refuse to send a stereo signal to FOH. I hope you understand.
Old 5th April 2019
  #9
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I’m wondering based on what Pro Sound Guy said if I maybe set up the splitter wrong.

I have the outs of splitter going to the FOH but also the alternative outs going into the mixer. ALL OF THEM INTO THE XLR slots. Should I have the line level inputs going into the line ins on the mixer?? Could this pose the issue I’ve been facing??



That has to be it cause I forgot to mention the vocals and BKGD vocals are the only “tracks” that don’t lose volume. And they are the only ones NOT line level.

Last edited by ToneG; 5th April 2019 at 05:58 AM.. Reason: Addition
Old 5th April 2019
  #10
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Line level and Mic level are two different voltages.
Yes match line level connections and match microphone level connections.
Old 5th April 2019
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro Sound Guy View Post
Line level and Mic level are two different voltages.
Yes match line level connections and match microphone level connections.
I feel like an idiot. However I’m curious as to why this setup worked with some mixers and others not so well??
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