The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
is everything auto-tuned live now? Utility Plugins
Old 4 weeks ago
  #1
Here for the gear
 

is everything auto-tuned live now?

hey folks, i have a serious question that has been burning my brain for years now. maybe i've become a dinosaur (i'm 30) but every damn live performance i see on youtube (2009ish on) is some sort of real-time auto-tune vocal. obviously not everything is like this, but especially nowadays the technology is real good so its harder to tell. i will post 3 videos that come to mind immediately. is this the new norm?

YouTube

YouTube

YouTube
Old 4 weeks ago
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by votingno View Post
hey folks, i have a serious question that has been burning my brain for years now. maybe i've become a dinosaur (i'm 30) but every damn live performance i see on youtube (2009ish on) is some sort of real-time auto-tune vocal. obviously not everything is like this, but especially nowadays the technology is real good so its harder to tell. i will post 3 videos that come to mind immediately. is this the new norm?

YouTube

YouTube

YouTube
Like you pointed out: "Obviously not everything is like this", because I could post 300 videos of live performances that was not tuned. But even if it was tuned how do you know if this was done live, or after in post production?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #3
Gear Addict
 

Yeah a lot of "live" videos are not live at all. They are mixed, tuned even overdubbed in post.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #4
Gear Maniac
 

Blimey - that Crosby, Stills & Nash clip is hideous - though you have to wonder how it would sound without the Autotune...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #5
Lives for gear
 

IMO there is a clear and undeniable difference between Enhancement vs Alteration.
Enhancement) to make greater; heighten; intensify.
Alteration) to change; to make different; modify; to castrate.

The videos I produce always have an original stereo scratch track, direct from FOH mix, and a multi-track from the pres of the same performance. I do not now ,nor have I ever auto tuned or electronically altered a note from any of the performances I have recorded: IMO that constitutes musical fraud. I do use compression and a bit of reverb to enhance the raw pre tracks. Due to the fact that I spend a great deal of time matching the performer with an appropriate mic I do very little if any EQ filtering. I always compare the post produced two mix with the original scratch tracks from the FOH live performance and the truth is it is a close call more than one might think.

The bigger issue of electronic alteration with Auto Tune or any of the other protocols that change notes is the obvious diminution of musical integrity that is a cornerstone of the construction of a fan based recognition factor. Extensive overuse of electronic creation along with ridiculous massive comping are a big part of the primary reasons real music fans will spend lots of cash to see a live concert performance, instead of purchasing the CDs , of the performers they like, trust and admire. We will always gravitate to pretty faces and the prevalent "tits and ass" attraction will always be alive and well, but today they better be able to cut in live performance on stage without a bevy of electronic manufacturing.
Hugh
Old 3 weeks ago
  #6
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by votingno View Post
hey folks, i have a serious question that has been burning my brain for years now. maybe i've become a dinosaur (i'm 30) but every damn live performance i see on youtube (2009ish on) is some sort of real-time auto-tune vocal. obviously not everything is like this, but especially nowadays the technology is real good so its harder to tell. i will post 3 videos that come to mind immediately. is this the new norm?

YouTube

YouTube

YouTube

What makes you believe that these are 3 examples of the use of Autotune?
I'm not hearing anything so perfect that I would call it autotuned and I'm not hearing any autotune artefacts.

You can definitely hear autotune when its dialled in strongly and I'm just not hearing it.

Regarding the RockWiz video. The backing band are very skilled musicians and I know they all rehearse quite a bit before the show.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7
Lives for gear
 

I don't hear it either, the warts in all three performances are very obvious. Crosby, Stills & Nash, if that's Autotune...WOW, RockWiz wasn't polished as far as I can hear, it certainly wasn't perfect. The Brandi Carlile (on Howard Stern) performance however was awful and unlistenable because of the very loud, fake and distracting reverb, and the dreadful guitar and vocal sounds.

I had to go listen to this to get over the Howard Stern appearance, I suggest the OP go listen to some 'real' concert performances...

Old 3 weeks ago
  #8
Lives for gear
 

'good' auto-tuning live can only be achieved by hours of pre-programming and playing along sequencers - i once got called to mix a tour with the record company insisting on the use of autotune (for good reason actually... would have been much easier to have a full backup track of the lead vocals off the studio though).

couldn't stand it and after a bit of programming/before production rehearsals began, i quit (and found a replacement happy to take over).

if vocals are upfront, imo there's no way of hiding autotune (also due to timing issues), to burry some backing vocals in a already dense mix is way less problematic.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #9
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
I don't hear it either, the warts in all three performances are very obvious. Crosby, Stills & Nash, if that's Autotune...WOW, RockWiz wasn't polished as far as I can hear, it certainly wasn't perfect. The Brandi Carlile (on Howard Stern) performance however was awful and unlistenable because of the very loud, fake and distracting reverb, and the dreadful guitar and vocal sounds.

I had to go listen to this to get over the Howard Stern appearance, I suggest the OP go listen to some 'real' concert performances...


Old 3 weeks ago
  #10
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
Regarding the RockWiz video. The backing band are very skilled musicians and I know they all rehearse quite a bit before the show.
i'm not talking about the band at all. the whole product is really good. i'm just talking about the vocals. the brandi carlile video i posted from stern was extremely subtle auto-tune (maybe none at all?) but the other two i posted are pretty obviously touched up. i've watched a bunch of those rockwiz performances and they are all like that.

the reason i asked the question is because i wonder if other people even care about this stuff.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #11
Lives for gear
 

Brandi Carlisle vocal was not auto tuned...the mix was awful but no autotune. A radio station engineer is going to tune a singer’s voice...does s/he know the chord structure of the song to even attempt such a move, and which singer is going to allow some random person to do that...?

There were enough warts in the Other videos and a lack of tuning artifacts to make me question if tuning was used...what was the point?

But more importantly, do you know when the performances were tuned...during the performance, or in post?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #12
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by votingno View Post
i'm not talking about the band at all. the whole product is really good. i'm just talking about the vocals. the brandi carlile video i posted from stern was extremely subtle auto-tune (maybe none at all?) but the other two i posted are pretty obviously touched up. i've watched a bunch of those rockwiz performances and they are all like that.

the reason i asked the question is because i wonder if other people even care about this stuff.

You still haven't made your case. I hear no evidence at all that these performances have been autotuned.
Just saying that they've been autotuned because EVERYONE is autotuning these days doesn't cut it.

Your just making stuff up unfortunately so there is nothing really for anyone to answer. If you think that I'm wrong then please make a specific and reasoned case why you believe that these performances were autotuned.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #13
Good question and an interesting subject

But I must agree with the majority of posters here - the specific examples posted show no signs of autotuning. On the contrary, to my ears the pitching of the example vocals is not very accurate (still good performances, though).

Are there examples out there of actual use of auto tune?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #14
Lives for gear
 

YouTube
Old 3 weeks ago
  #15
Lives for gear
You can hear autotune. Its not a transparent effect. If someone is singing really well in tune then its not automatically because of autotune.

Now if autotune is mixed in with enough other effects (which is what they do), then autotune is not immediately discernible from everything else yet I hear what I will describe as a "boxy" sound in the midrange and something that is maybe a slight stutter or warble to the voice. You won't hear any smooth slides in pitch from a singer. Autotune can't deal with that.

An autotuned vocal will always be a vocal with effects on it even if the autotune effect isn't immediately discernible from the other effects used.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #16
Lives for gear
 

Autotune is one thing, when it was used is the other...that’s why I posted a fan’s recording of the performance above because that tells us how the show sounded, not the post mix.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #17
Gear Maniac
 
Mike M's Avatar
auto tune.....?

FWIW: I tech'd a rock band at a show last Saturday. The gal singer was young (maybe 18 y/o). They sounded good.

During the show I'm standing at the other side of the dance floor, mixing on my iPad (mostly set it and forget it once I dialed things in - easy) and some guy (who had been standing next to me) asked if I was using an auto-tuner on the singer...I never use one, btw.

Me: Why do you ask?
Guy: 'cause she sounds really good
Me: I don't use an auto tuner....maybe she is really good....
Guy: ?

The above may be an example of how performances have evolved... If it sounds good, people suspect that there must be some "enhancement" involved...right?
Old 3 weeks ago
  #18
Lives for gear
This is the one I always remember. So insanely auto-tuned it's hard to know if it was a malfunction/wrong preset or if someone was screwing with him.

Billy Joel National Anthem 2007
Old 3 weeks ago
  #19
Lives for gear
 

The truly weird phenomena for me is the singers who have grown up with autotune and learnt to sing as if they were autotuned, complete with note stepping. Freaks me out!

The last time i heard such weirdness is when singers emerged in the '80s mimicking the sound of vocals processed heavily by FM radio broadcast limiters.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #20
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by diggo View Post
The truly weird phenomena for me is the singers who have grown up with autotune and learnt to sing as if they were autotuned, complete with note stepping. Freaks me out!
Freaks me out too! John legend does this very thing.
Top Mentioned Products
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
kasperjensen / So much gear, so little time
5
bebopxx / Rap + Hip Hop engineering and production
3
djixl / Work In Progress / Advice Requested / Show and Tell / Artist Showcase / Mix-Offs
12

Forum Jump
Forum Jump