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Do longer speaker poles (mounted on subs) exist? Dynamics Plugins
Old 17th January 2019
  #1
Gear Head
 

Do longer speaker poles (mounted on subs) exist?

Wondering if anyone makes poles to mount speakers on subs (m20) longer than 50-60", like 70-80"?

I like to get our mains up 8 feet high or so. We switched from separate stands to poles to save space but now the mains aren't high enough. I know they sell separate extension rods that add 1-2 feet, but of course it would be more convenient if it were all one piece.
Old 17th January 2019
  #2
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MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
Check the distance rods from K&M.de
Old 17th January 2019
  #3
Gear Addict
 

Also worth checking out the laws of physics as regards leverage and gravity, and the law in your area around public liability.
Old 17th January 2019
  #4
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Wyllys's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackchandelier View Post
Wondering if anyone makes poles to mount speakers on subs (m20) longer than 50-60", like 70-80"?

I like to get our mains up 8 feet high or so. We switched from separate stands to poles to save space but now the mains aren't high enough. I know they sell separate extension rods that add 1-2 feet, but of course it would be more convenient if it were all one piece.
A lot depends on the size of your subs (footprint/mass) and the weight and COG of your tops.

For longer than factory poles I seriously recommend going with steel or titanium rather than aluminum as the lighter weight poles WILL bend. VOE on that.

Good luck. Use caution.
Old 17th January 2019
  #5
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
A lot depends on the size of your subs (footprint/mass) and the weight and COG of your tops.

For longer than factory poles I seriously recommend going with steel or titanium rather than aluminum as the lighter weight poles WILL bend. VOE on that.

Good luck. Use caution.
Tops are DXR12s, 42.5 lbs. Subs are EKX-15SPs, 57.7 lbs. Happy to use steel or titanium. But again, I can't find anything that even exists. Links?
Old 17th January 2019
  #6
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shufflebeat View Post
Also worth checking out the laws of physics as regards leverage and gravity, and the law in your area around public liability.
I imagine if speakers can go 8-10 feet high on standard speaker stands, which have a much higher center of gravity - that they'll be even more secure when using 58 lb subs as bases. But hey, thanks for the snarky comment!
Old 17th January 2019
  #7
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MIKEHARRIS View Post
Check the distance rods from K&M.de
Thank you! It looks like they make a steel rod that extends to 70". Exactly what I'm looking for!
Old 17th January 2019
  #8
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Wyllys's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackchandelier View Post
I imagine if speakers can go 8-10 feet high on standard speaker stands, which have a much higher center of gravity - that they'll be even more secure when using 58 lb subs as bases. But hey, thanks for the snarky comment!
Nope. The COG shifts mainly with the area of the base. Even my TeleLock tripod stands have a base area twice the size of my 80 pound Sb180 subs. You "imagine" wrong, compadre. By using mass as your operative principle, logic would tend to suggest that a 100 lb sub with a base are of 1 ft square would be stable.

Not so...

Last edited by Wyllys; 18th January 2019 at 12:11 AM..
Old 17th January 2019
  #9
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Wyllys's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackchandelier View Post
Tops are DXR12s, 42.5 lbs. Subs are EKX-15SPs, 57.7 lbs. Happy to use steel or titanium. But again, I can't find anything that even exists. Links?
You have to go to a pipe/tubing warehouse and get the proper diameter stock, persuade them to sell you something from an open bundle and cut it to length yourself. This is where you can use your imagination...

But for the height you're talking about and the weight of your tops I have two recomendations:

1. 1/2" plywood base plates for under your subs to get at least a 3' square (not 3 sq ft) to fasten your subs to and

2. Tilt adaptors for the speakers.

Good luck...
Old 17th January 2019
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackchandelier View Post
I imagine if speakers can go 8-10 feet high on standard speaker stands, which have a much higher center of gravity - that they'll be even more secure when using 58 lb subs as bases. But hey, thanks for the snarky comment!
The advice was serious and should be heeded with all caution and seriousness, there is a limit to what make sense and to what is safe...do not put other people’s lives in danger!
Old 17th January 2019
  #11
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use tripods if you need to go higher. can recommend manfrotto windups: they go up to ca. 3.5m, load is limited to 30kg (for a good reason!)
Attached Thumbnails
Do longer speaker poles (mounted on subs) exist?-20180610_180733.jpg  
Old 18th January 2019
  #12
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
The advice was serious and should be heeded with all caution and seriousness, there is a limit to what make sense and to what is safe...do not put other people’s lives in danger!
Considering they do sell 70" poles - exactly what I was looking for - are you saying that K&M sells a product that puts people's lives in danger and I should not use them?
Old 18th January 2019
  #13
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
You have to go to a pipe/tubing warehouse and get the proper diameter stock, persuade them to sell you something from an open bundle and cut it to length yourself. This is where you can use your imagination...

But for the height you're talking about and the weight of your tops I have two recomendations:

1. 1/2" plywood base plates for under your subs to get at least a 3' square (not 3 sq ft) to fasten your subs to and

2. Tilt adaptors for the speakers.

Good luck...

Those are both great suggestions that I did not think of. Thank you!
Old 18th January 2019
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackchandelier View Post
Considering they do sell 70" poles - exactly what I was looking for - are you saying that K&M sells a product that puts people's lives in danger and I should not use them?
Those poles may not be appropriate for your loudspeakers, the sensible thing is to consult the manual for both the loudspeakers and the poles before assuming that it’s okay.
Old 18th January 2019
  #15
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Those poles may not be appropriate for your loudspeakers, the sensible thing is to consult the manual for both the loudspeakers and the poles before assuming that it’s okay.
The manual for the sub and speakers both do not list any specs for height or weight when it comes to mounting poles.

The manual for the pole states that the max load is 35 kg, or 77 lbs. My speakers weigh 42.5 lbs.
Old 18th January 2019
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackchandelier View Post
The manual for the sub and speakers both do not list any specs for height or weight when it comes to mounting poles.

The manual for the pole states that the max load is 35 kg, or 77 lbs. My speakers weigh 42.5 lbs.
How long are the poles that came with the system, What should the base dimensions be, and can you use them if it’s windy, what happensif you toot the tops etc? These are all important details you need to consider.

Just because they make them does not mean they’re right for all situations.
Old 18th January 2019
  #17
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Wyllys's Avatar
 

Jack...

There is much to consider in this type of endeavor. From an engineering standpoint, there's a great difference in load bearing and structural integrity between vertical structures and angled structures. While the specs you're looking at give you some degree of comfort and confidence, if the load shifts off dead center the load-bearing capability decreases rapidly...hence my suggestion of using heavier, more rigid material. While an incident involving the speakers might seem to have a fair amount of tolerance to tilting, the stress on the poles, mounting hardware and fasteners increases geometrically and any one of the multiple possible points of failure can rapidly imcrease the load of one or more points of the entire structure to the point of failure.

The bottom line is you can't be too careful in these regards. That 42.5 pound speaker coming down from a height of 8-10 feet packs a lethal punch.
Old 18th January 2019
  #18
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
How long are the poles that came with the system, What should the base dimensions be, and can you use them if it’s windy, what happensif you toot the tops etc? These are all important details you need to consider.

Just because they make them does not mean they’re right for all situations.
There were no poles with the "system". I bought the components individually.

None of those things are listed in any of the manuals for the speakers, poles, or subs. The only relevant information I could find is the max weight listed in the manual for the poles is 77 lbs.

I don't use them outdoors so wind is not an issue.

Not sure if you meant to write tilt instead of toot - I do not tilt the tops.

Also I set up the subs adjacent to my stage and am thinking I could secure the subs to the stage with a ratcheting strap or something for added stability in case... well, in case what, a drunken wedding guest jumps up and knocks into an 8 foot high speaker?

I don't mean to sound rude. I am asking honestly - as bumping the sub or the pole wouldn't knock anything over, (unless you hit the pole pretty hard and pretty high up) so, in the absence of wind, what exactly is it that's going to knock these speakers over?
Old 18th January 2019
  #19
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Wyllys's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackchandelier View Post
I don't mean to sound rude. I am asking honestly - as bumping the sub or the pole wouldn't knock anything over, (unless you hit the pole pretty hard and pretty high up) so, in the absence of wind, what exactly is it that's going to knock these speakers over?
It is never rude to ask questions regarding safety. It IS rude to question safety considerations, so you're on the righ track in pursuing a fuller understanding of the issues. A couple of suggestions coming from 50+ years in the business:

1. NEVER underestimate the stupidity of your fellow humans! They'll find an amazing number of ways to cause a disaster. YouTube is full of evidence.

2. The point I've tried to make regarding material failures is that you don't have to push the stuff over. Once that 10' high load goes off center, any number of things in the supporting structure can fail and drop the load.

The BEST hint I can give in this regard would be to contact EV regarding the safe pole mounting height limit of your sub. Just because you can fit a longer pole doesn't mean you should. Beyond that, I'd simply go with a proper tripod stand and place the sub between the legs.

Good luck. Stay safe.
Old 18th January 2019
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackchandelier View Post
I don't mean to sound rude. I am asking honestly - as bumping the sub or the pole wouldn't knock anything over, (unless you hit the pole pretty hard and pretty high up) so, in the absence of wind, what exactly is it that's going to knock these speakers over?
The higher and heavier the load is the smaller the load circle...that drunk person might not need to jump up on the pole/loudspeaker to knock it over.
Old 18th January 2019
  #21
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
It is never rude to ask questions regarding safety. It IS rude to question safety considerations, so you're on the righ track in pursuing a fuller understanding of the issues. A couple of suggestions coming from 50+ years in the business:

1. NEVER underestimate the stupidity of your fellow humans! They'll find an amazing number of ways to cause a disaster. YouTube is full of evidence.

2. The point I've tried to make regarding material failures is that you don't have to push the stuff over. Once that 10' high load goes off center, any number of things in the supporting structure can fail and drop the load.

The BEST hint I can give in this regard would be to contact EV regarding the safe pole mounting height limit of your sub. Just because you can fit a longer pole doesn't mean you should. Beyond that, I'd simply go with a proper tripod stand and place the sub between the legs.

Good luck. Stay safe.
Thanks, good advice. I sent EV a message.
Old 18th January 2019
  #22
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FYI I've had a sub shift on concrete into the tripod legs, splitting them, speaker came tumbling down onto a teenager. Death was instantaneous.

Just kidding, no injuries, just like saying death was instantaneous. But it did happen.
Old 18th January 2019
  #23
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Wyllys's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackchandelier View Post
Thanks, good advice. I sent EV a message.
EV offers two poles for mounting speakers on your subs:

PCL35, 35" steel pole with thread mount, non-adjustable

ASP-58, 57.5" adjustable steel pole, threaded mount

Best bet is that the adjustable taller pole defines the height limit for safe use with tops conforming to the design specs of those within the same series as your sub.
Old 18th January 2019
  #24
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1. The principle of leverage should be kept in mind. The original poster would have a 42.5lb speaker exerting force on a 70 inch lever plus the length of the mounted cabinet. FIve foot pinch bars have been used for decades to pry heavy rocks out of the ground. It's a pretty effective length for leverage.

2. The mount on every sub I've seen isn't really all that deep and is screwed into the cabinet material which is generally no more than 3/4 inch and could be MDF on some enclosures. Maybe you trust the strength of the pole, but do you trust the pole mount and the enclosure material?
Old 18th January 2019
  #25
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackchandelier View Post
...But hey, thanks for the snarky comment!
You're very welcome although, to be honest, if you think that was snarky you haven't read any of my other posts.


All the best.
Old 18th January 2019
  #26
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Pro Sound Guy's Avatar
 

I prefer tripods for height and safety features. Also placement. I can place the loudspeaker where I want instead of having to stick it in one spot on top of a sub.
Old 18th January 2019
  #27
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Wyllys's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks View Post

2. The mount on every sub I've seen isn't really all that deep and is screwed into the cabinet material which is generally no more than 3/4 inch and could be MDF on some enclosures. Maybe you trust the strength of the pole, but do you trust the pole mount and the enclosure material?
The mount on the EV subs in question is a threaded M20 mount into a 3/4" plywood cabinet. It is not what you imagine.
Old 18th January 2019
  #28
Gear Maniac
speaker safety....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
It is never rude to ask questions regarding safety.

1. NEVER underestimate the stupidity of your fellow humans! They'll find an amazing number of ways to cause a disaster.

Good luck. Stay safe.
The above says it all!

My quote: "Someone can only have one foot of exposed cable on an entire football field and you can surely bet that (for some unknown reason) an 80 year old woman will somehow find it and trip on it..."

The higher speakers go, the more risk you take.

Story time: In October of 2018 I was hired by a DJ who booked a gig to provide production for an outdoor Catholic Mass on a parochial HS' football field.
The DJ originally wanted two e152's on tripod stands, plus mixer, and a couple of mics.
I asked the DJ how many attendees were expected. He checked and learned that there were to be about 2,000 elementary-age students in attendance.

After a lengthy discussion he agreed to up it to four speakers but still insisted on mounting them tripod stands.
I balked and told him that I would do it provided that he get scaffolding for the speakers.
(The DJ had already agreed on a price and was reluctant rent scaff.)

He eventually rented the scaffolding - and it was good that he did, as it was breezy that day....and there were kids everywhere.

I have liability insurance......but who wants to test it??
Old 18th January 2019
  #29
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Wyllys's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
The above says it all!

My quote: "Someone can only have one foot of exposed cable on an entire football field and you can surely bet that (for some unknown reason) an 80 year old woman will somehow find it and trip on it..."

The higher speakers go, the more risk you take.

Story time: In October of 2018 I was hired by a DJ who booked a gig to provide production for an outdoor Catholic Mass on a parochial HS' football field.
The DJ originally wanted two e152's on tripod stands, plus mixer, and a couple of mics.
I asked the DJ how many attendees were expected. He checked and learned that there were to be about 2,000 elementary-age students in attendance.

After a lengthy discussion he agreed to up it to four speakers but still insisted on mounting them tripod stands.
I balked and told him that I would do it provided that he get scaffolding for the speakers.
(The DJ had already agreed on a price and was reluctant rent scaff.)

He eventually rented the scaffolding - and it was good that he did, as it was breezy that day....and there were kids everywhere.

I have liability insurance......but who wants to test it??
I used to do a yearly Catholic school 3-day Fall Fair and used my 4' x 6' scaffold. The problem then became how to keep the kids from using the scaff as monkey bars.
I ended up stretching cheap white sheeting over the scaff frame and had the art teacher on hand to supervise the kids doing art work on the fabric. The committee loved the additional kid involvement and I got free security from the teacher and parents who totlly bought into the idea.
Old 18th January 2019
  #30
Gear Maniac
Great idea with the artwork

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
I used to do a yearly Catholic school 3-day Fall Fair and used my 4' x 6' scaffold. The problem then became how to keep the kids from using the scaff as monkey bars.
I ended up stretching cheap white sheeting over the scaff frame and had the art teacher on hand to supervise the kids doing art work on the fabric. The committee loved the additional kid involvement and I got free security from the teacher and parents who totlly bought into the idea.
In my instance, the DJ actually gave it some thought and used thin black material to create a skirt/scrim on the bottom 4' of the scaff.
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