The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Feature packed small mixer? Mixers (Digital)
Old 2 weeks ago
  #31
Lives for gear
If you play the same venues with the same setups, you will appreciate the time saved by using scenes.

Mixing Station Pro is an excellent android app for the XR series and there is a version for the X32 line as well. It does take some at home practice to get up and going. I wouldnt jump into a live gig without first getting used to it. I understand it is on the Amazon store for those using Amazon Fire tablets. For $5-6, its a terrific buy.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #32
Here for the gear
 

Thread Starter
It sure would be nice to have the option to go from my phone/tablet to the mixer with a cable. I know that's not really the intent of these but it would be a nice back up if something went wrong regarding Wi-Fi / internet. And for me the mixer will be sitting right next to me for the acoustic stuff. and even when the 80s band plays and there's a conflict with our soundmans schedule.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #33
Gear Addict
Get a cheap laptop and use that instead of the phone. Wire all the gear up to a router (you don't really want to do it all wirelessly ;-)
Old 1 week ago
  #34
Here for the gear
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by facej View Post
Get a cheap laptop and use that instead of the phone. Wire all the gear up to a router (you don't really want to do it all wirelessly ;-)
That is a great idea! I actually have a few cheap laptops my kids have discarded. So I am on one now until I can replace our home CPU.
Old 1 week ago
  #35
Here for the gear
 

Thread Starter
So a laptop would really help using the XR16 & 18. I am really interested in those. But I came here with an idea of what I wanted and now after thinking about post from Samc and Alecsp it really got me thinking of all the options really open to me that before coming here I was too narrow minded to see. Why do I really need two mixers? So I really like the Behringers but GFA916 and especially BradH really got me thinking about the QSC. And since I would be using it for both projects I am looking at the Touch16. I like that it can be wireless or traditional. Any thoughts on a comparison of the two?
Old 1 week ago
  #36
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1960lespaul View Post
So a laptop would really help using the XR16 & 18. I am really interested in those. But I came here with an idea of what I wanted and now after thinking about post from Samc and Alecsp it really got me thinking of all the options really open to me that before coming here I was too narrow minded to see. Why do I really need two mixers? So I really like the Behringers but GFA916 and especially BradH really got me thinking about the QSC. And since I would be using it for both projects I am looking at the Touch16. I like that it can be wireless or traditional. Any thoughts on a comparison of the two?
A wired laptop can help any of these mixers as it'd be fairly bulletproof, network wise, and you can see so much more on the display. But I never bother with my XR18 - I do with X/M32, as the extra utility is well worth it, it's great to have the desk itself, a laptop by the side, and a tablet to walk the room - such utility!

When it comes to comparing two mixers, most people will just tell you that you should get whatever they've got, as it's fab, and not that many have comparative experience of both.

Some of the obvious differences:
TM16: built in touch screen, XR18: needs companion phone/tablet/laptop
TM16: non-recallable pre-amp gain, XR18: fully recallable gain
TM16: 16 mic pres + 2 stereo line ins, XR18: 16 mic pres + 1 stereo line in
TM16: wall wart PSU, XR18: built in PSU

Have a read of these two reasonably objective reviews from Sound On Sound
TM16 review, XR18 review

Compare the prices. Try out the software to see if you feel one works better for you. Check out the Youtube videos.

In the end, you have to make a decision, which will be partly objective, partly personal. Then go for it, and have no regrets - I'm sure you'll be pleased with the results...
Old 1 week ago
  #37
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlecSp View Post
TM16: non-recallable pre-amp gain, XR18: fully recallable gain
This isn't entirely accurate: it's true that the QSC Touchmix series uses analog gain trim knobs, but all the Touchmix mixers also provide digital gain. So, for example, you can set all your analog trim gain knobs to 12:00 and then use digital gain to fine-tune from there remotely (or called up via saved scenes).

I prefer to mix directly from the Touchmix board since I think you get the best gain staging by starting with accurate analog trim, not bothering with digital gain, using the faders only for mixing, setting the output to unity, and then adjusting the volume of your powered speakers to taste. That said, if I'm performing as well as doing sound (which is quite a bit of the time), I'm happy that I have the ability to adjust digital gain from my seat using my tablet instead of having to go over to the mixer.
Old 1 week ago
  #38
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1960lespaul View Post
It sure would be nice to have the option to go from my phone/tablet to the mixer with a cable. I know that's not really the intent of these but it would be a nice back up if something went wrong regarding Wi-Fi / internet. And for me the mixer will be sitting right next to me for the acoustic stuff. and even when the 80s band plays and there's a conflict with our soundmans schedule.
Envision it this way--connect a router to the mixer via a CAT5 cable. Then you connect a laptop via CAT5 to the router and you also connect your android tablet wirelessly to the router. Then you have both wired and wireless control over the mixer.

The problem can be that many of the newer laptops don't have ethernet ports any more.

The other problem when dealing with a large number of channels is a laptop screen may just not be big enough.

One nice thing about tablet control is you can go into the auditorium to adjust your mix or if you're in the auditorium, you can walk up on stage to check monitor levels. Trying to say you can conveniently check your levels from many different locations as needed.
Old 1 week ago
  #39
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh View Post
This isn't entirely accurate: it's true that the QSC Touchmix series uses analog gain trim knobs, but all the Touchmix mixers also provide digital gain. So, for example, you can set all your analog trim gain knobs to 12:00 and then use digital gain to fine-tune from there remotely (or called up via saved scenes).
Quite, so the QSL doesn't have fully recallable pres. The digital trim will cater for most situations, and won't be a problem in practise for many people. Where it'd least convenient is when you're mixing remotely from a conventional FOH position with the mixer in stage box position. Any changes to gain require going to the mixer - not life ending, but not insurmountable.

To be fair, 1960lespaul will be familiar with this from his Presonus, as they also had non-recallable mic pres. You can live with it, of course, but increasingly you don't have to. Only the user knows which features are important to his choice and which aren't. It was one of the many things that irked me with my old 01v96 - but that was a generation ago, when so many things that are everday now were just a pipe dream...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2manyrocks View Post
Envision it this way--connect a router to the mixer via a CAT5 cable. Then you connect a laptop via CAT5 to the router and you also connect your android tablet wirelessly to the router. Then you have both wired and wireless control over the mixer.
Quite, so you can use as many connected devices (within reason) as you like, and as are suitable to the event. Some events I just use my phone, some my tablet, some laptop and tablet.
Old 1 week ago
  #40
Gear Maniac
 

The main point I'd want to emphasize is that whatever way you go, you should ensure you have a solution that isn't 100% dependent on a wifi connection. All it takes is one episode where your connection drops out in the middle of a gig (and this has happened to me maybe 6 times over the past 3 years) to ramp up the stress level whenever you're mixing with wifi without some sort of wired backup to fall to in case of emergency. I've had cases where I lost connections just at the point when I was trying to fix feedback, requiring me to run to the powered speakers and turn them down. I've had cases where I lost connections during transitions between songs where I had to mute some mics and unmute others, but couldn't.

No solution is going to be 100% reliable, but wifi can be flaky enough that I now insist on having a wired solution plus wireless. You can mix wirelessly without a hitch for 5 or 10 years straight, but that one time it doesn't work can be enough to make you gun-shy forever after.

Most if not all of the mixers discussed here have this capability (wired plus wireless); I just think you should plan on implementing a wired solution so you have it when you need it. You may never need it, but if you do you'll be so thankful.
Old 1 week ago
  #41
Here for the gear
 

Thread Starter
I do love the hunt. Thank you all for the advice. That's why I love coming to forums such as these. I know it drives people crazy and even I still get a little bit iffy if I'm making the right decision when I do. But it's still fun!

I like to touch mix 16 because it's got 10 auxes and two are stereo. Plus you have the ability to mix right from the platform. The guy at Sweetwater also says it has 4 internal auxes so you don't have to eat up any of your external auxes for effects.

I have moved past the xr16 since I will be using this for both projects and I like to have all XLR inputs. Does the xr18 have internal auxes for effects as well? I'm guessing it probably does. I don't think the xr18 has the ability to run stereo in ears but that's okay. And since I can run this from a laptop and not have to rely on wireless makes this a serious player due to the fact that it's actually $700 cheaper. Not that that's that big of a deal since I'll be selling the PreSonus. I should be able to get enough to buy either since I'll be selling the 24 Channel with its multi pin one plug snake and Road case. I actually have the cash right now to get the xr18.

I like them both. If I had to make a decision right now just because the touchmix has the on-screen display right on the unit I like that one best. But I don't know if I like it $700 more best. There's my only drawback. I think either would be fine. Both are very small and very light. I can easily keep that with my guitar gear.
Old 1 week ago
  #42
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1960lespaul View Post
I do love the hunt. Thank you all for the advice. That's why I love coming to forums such as these. I know it drives people crazy and even I still get a little bit iffy if I'm making the right decision when I do. But it's still fun!

I like to touch mix 16 because it's got 10 auxes and two are stereo. Plus you have the ability to mix right from the platform. The guy at Sweetwater also says it has 4 internal auxes so you don't have to eat up any of your external auxes for effects.

I have moved past the xr16 since I will be using this for both projects and I like to have all XLR inputs. Does the xr18 have internal auxes for effects as well? I'm guessing it probably does. I don't think the xr18 has the ability to run stereo in ears but that's okay. And since I can run this from a laptop and not have to rely on wireless makes this a serious player due to the fact that it's actually $700 cheaper. Not that that's that big of a deal since I'll be selling the PreSonus. I should be able to get enough to buy either since I'll be selling the 24 Channel with its multi pin one plug snake and Road case. I actually have the cash right now to get the xr18.

I like them both. If I had to make a decision right now just because the touchmix has the on-screen display right on the unit I like that one best. But I don't know if I like it $700 more best. There's my only drawback. I think either would be fine. Both are very small and very light. I can easily keep that with my guitar gear.
A few things to consider with the TouchMix:
  1. Having an analog trim for the gain introduces the potential for the gain to be inadvertently bumped in transport, setup, and breakdown of the gear.
  2. Analog pots get dirty and cause noise when adjusting.
  3. Yes, it has a built in LCD; however, it isn't a very big LCD and it is a very low quality one at that. The display quality simply pales in comparison to even the most inexpensive tablet.

Before I go on, I replaced my venerable MixWiz with an X32 Rack. The difference in setup was night and day, and the ability to record multi-track gave a whole new learning tool to the band ..... as well as providing a way for us to put together great video's with over-dubbed music from the actual gig that had been mixed, and mastered well so that the demo looks and sounds incredible.

If I had to purchase something today, I would likely go with the Soundcraft Ui24. Unlike its younger siblings, the Ui24 has its own built in power supply, the preamp and grounding problems associated with the Ui16 and Ui12 have been fixed, and the Ui24 comes with a built in dual band 2.4/5Ghz router.

The Ui 24 has 20 XLR's and mic preamps while the X32 Rack has only 16 (although you can add another 8 or 16 with a stage box easily enough .... but with more money of course). It also has the ability to record multi-track through a USB stick where the X32 requires a $200 add in card to do this (or a laptop and a USB cable).

The X32 Rack has a built in Ui to use in an emergency, and is expandable to 38 inputs. The X32 Rack also offers an affordable 16 channel IEM mixer (P16m) which you can get for around $250 per person that connects through an ethernet cable to the X32 rack. The X32 series is also much much more prolific than the Ui series. Many bands will have X32 scenes on a USB stick if you mix anyone else. Other sound people are more likely to have used an X32 than a Ui.

Either one of these mixers will provide a very comprehensive solution for you which will work well for both a full band and a small duo/trio setup.

I keep my X32 Rack in an SKB 4 space instrument rack. It is unreal how easy it is to setup now.
Old 1 week ago
  #43
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1960lespaul View Post
I like to touch mix 16 because it's got 10 auxes and two are stereo. Plus you have the ability to mix right from the platform. The guy at Sweetwater also says it has 4 internal auxes so you don't have to eat up any of your external auxes for effects.

I have moved past the xr16 since I will be using this for both projects and I like to have all XLR inputs. Does the xr18 have internal auxes for effects as well? I'm guessing it probably does. I don't think the xr18 has the ability to run stereo in ears but that's okay.
I think pretty much all the modern digital desks have dedicate mix busses for effects, so you're not using up external mix busses. It'd be daft not to, as it's just internal DSP.

XR18 mix busses can be stereo linked, to run stereo monitor mixes. The XR18 has 6 aux outputs (so 3 stereo monitor mixes) compared with the TM16's 10 (6 XLR + 2 stereo TRS)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneEng View Post
Before I go on, I replaced my venerable MixWiz with an X32 Rack.

If I had to purchase something today, I would likely go with the Soundcraft Ui24.
That's quite some scope creep! I had the same quandry when I was buying a compact solution - for me it was XR18 vs X32 Rack. I liked the fact that the X32 Rack could be expanded up to 32 inputs and was more capable. But, in the end, my compact solution really needed no more than the XR18, and I got a scream of a deal at GBP 430, so it was a no brainer. Both XR18 and X32 can hook up with Behringer's personal monitor mixers - which could be appealing, but are probably again more than you're looking for for your simple solution.

I still can't believe I've got a 16 mic pre mixer with 6 monitor sends, full dynamics and EQ on every channel, 4 multi-FX, and full multi-track recording capability for well under GBP 500 - quite astounding!

It's a great time to be buying gear like this...
Old 1 week ago
  #44
Here for the gear
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlecSp View Post
I think pretty much all the modern digital desks have dedicate mix busses for effects, so you're not using up external mix busses. It'd be daft not to, as it's just internal DSP.

XR18 mix busses can be stereo linked, to run stereo monitor mixes. The XR18 has 6 aux outputs (so 3 stereo monitor mixes) compared with the TM16's 10 (6 XLR + 2 stereo TRS)
Not thinking in the analog world is still a habit. Linking those aux outputs will make the Trio guys happy. Not so much for the 80s guys. We link the 10 Presonus down to 5 and everyone gets a stereo mix. The only apt to complain is the drummer So I could do stereo and 4 mono. The Soundcraft Ui24 looks like a nice possibility too. Man so many great options! I have changed my mind on what to get 5 times lol! I am torn between the Behringer XR18 the Midas MR18 and the new player in the game the Soundcraft Ui24R
Old 1 week ago
  #45
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1960lespaul View Post
Not thinking in the analog world is still a habit. Linking those aux outputs will make the Trio guys happy. Not so much for the 80s guys. We link the 10 Presonus down to 5 and everyone gets a stereo mix. The only apt to complain is the drummer So I could do stereo and 4 mono. The Soundcraft Ui24 looks like a nice possibility too. Man so many great options! I have changed my mind on what to get 5 times lol! I am torn between the Behringer XR18 the Midas MR18 and the new player in the game the Soundcraft Ui24R
XR18 vs MR18 - if the price difference is small, then get the MR18. They're functionally identical. The MR18 has slightly quieter I/O (unlikely to notice this in a live scenario), slightly better build quality. And, of course, the Midas name, if that matters to you.

Going up to the UI24 gives you more inputs and 8 outs, but still doesn't reach your nirvana of 10 outs for 5 stereo mixes. At that higher cost level, you're amongst the competition like the X32 Rack - 16 in, 12 out (expandable with an S16/S32 box; the QU-SB - 16 in 10 out; QSC TM30 - 24 in 14 out (but still those pesky analog gains); and a few others.

Depends whether you fancy one mixer to cover both bands, or simply to get a smaller mixer to cover the smaller band. Only you can answer that, but even you might struggle to come to a decision.
Old 1 week ago
  #46
Here for the gear
 

Thread Starter
Yes I think I do want one to cover both. I didn't think that's what I wanted when I first came here but it seems to make some sense. That happens a lot LOL! The soundcraft is intriguing because it already has a better wi-fi router. It's dual Channel. And it's not app based. It is getting great reviews. I have also decided I'm not going to worry too much about getting everybody stereo in ear mixes. Let them go out and pay for one if they want that LOL! The Soundcraft has 8 so if there a linkable I could do up to 4. Decisions, decisions!
Old 1 week ago
  #47
Here for the gear
 
vogelchr's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlecSp View Post
UI24 gives you more inputs and 8 outs, but still doesn't reach your nirvana of 10 outs for 5 stereo mixes.
The latest firmware allows for routing Aux9/10 to the two independent headphone outputs. Try the Ui24R web-ui Demo on the Soundcraft site, it’s really well made. Of course the Ui24R has more of everything compared to the XR18, I was very tempted to upgrade when it was released, but…

I personally own a XR18 and am more than happy. Just don’t let people tell you that the built in router is good or even acceptable. It isn’t. It’s terrible. I put my XR18+1U spacer in a 4U instrument rack, with a proper wireless router strapped inside with cable ties. The 1U spacer holds two WiFi antennas, PowerCon power, a USB charge port for the tablet and two Ethernet connectors in case WiFi gets flakey. For me this is the ultimate “plug in and be ready” kit. I recommend doing something similar with any digital rack mounted mixer.

The XR18 android app (mixing station air) is very good for mixing and setting EQ, Compressors, … only setting effects is a little cumbersome because it lacks the visualization of the different effect units, has only boring buttons/knobs. But it’s fast even on older tablets and stable. It has custom UI layouts (in addition to custom mixing layers), mine is GitHub - vogelchr/mixing_station_x18_layout: Mixing Station XR18 Layout
Old 1 week ago
  #48
Gear Head
 

Quote:
I did say feature packed but I didn't really explain what that meant. You have seen my input requirements. And I would really like for everyone to have their own IEM mix. So in my limited analog world that meant 4 auxes because I also wanted the mixer to have on board effects. Mostly reverb.
You definately need to go for a digital 'virtual' mixer if you want 4 Auxes!
Old 6 days ago
  #49
Gear Maniac
 

The Ui24r seems superior in pretty much every way to the XR18. If you can afford something like a Soundcraft Impact with a stagebox it can do everything you want and more. Same with a rackmounted Expression 1 if you like a smaller form factor. The Ui24r is seemingly best in class. Not sure if this concerns your setup ever, but if you ever need to delay a loudspeaker (rear fills, front fills) you can't do this on the xr16. An X32 rack is another one to consider but I think the workflow on the Ui24r is really solid.
Old 2 days ago
  #50
Here for the gear
 

Thread Starter
My apologies for being late to respond. The Soundcraft is definitely the front runner and pulling away! No one seems to have anything negative against it.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump