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Anyone using Auto Tune Live? Pitch & Harmony Plugins
Old 12th April 2018
  #1
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Thread Starter
Anyone using Auto Tune Live?

Anyone have success with using Auto Tune Live? How effective is it and are there any latency issues.
Old 12th April 2018
  #2
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Aisle 6's Avatar
"Anyone using Auto-Tune Live?"

Dear Lord! I hope not.
Old 12th April 2018
  #3
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Thread Starter
Why? That is what it was designed for. If you have a problem with singers that need help with pitch why not?
Old 12th April 2018
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Aisle 6's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason rocks View Post
Why? That is what it was designed for. If you have a problem with singers that need help with pitch why not?
I use it judiciously in the studio and only ever in manual mode so that the artefacts are kept to a minimum. You do not have that facility in the live domain and auto mode is frightening. Unless you have a great MD in the band that sends you control data from a keyboard or similar and everything is locked tightly to the performance and the singer is great...then it may work, but then you probably would not need it.

Google some You Tube videos of auto tune live and let me know if you want to be a part of that camp as I will supply the camera for you to record each performance and start a You Tube channel that will be very successful off the back of it. ; )
Old 12th April 2018
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Aisle 6's Avatar
Look the real answer is that yes you can and I even think that there is a hardware unit that you can purchase. There will most definitely be some latency. The result will be poor, unless the T-Pain thing is your end goal I guess.
Old 13th April 2018
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason rocks View Post
Why? That is what it was designed for. If you have a problem with singers that need help with pitch why not?
Get new singers. JMHO
Old 13th April 2018
  #7
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I demoed it a while back I have efx and 8
Old 13th April 2018
  #8
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Well, I know Closer used it to tune his Themen live...awesome .
Old 13th April 2018
  #9
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Auto tune/ Pitch correction is just a tool like compression, reverb or delay for me. I just bought a Boss VE-2 and it was surprisingly enjoyable at the last show. I had a TC Mic Mechanic prior to this but it was almost to subtle. With the enhance mode activated and some light reverb and pitch correction, it made my harmonies so tight and perfect and my leads very smooth. Now I am a good singer but it made me sound like a studio recording. Live performance is so loud that it is not obvious at all.
Old 14th April 2018
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason rocks View Post
Anyone have success with using Auto Tune Live? How effective is it and are there any latency issues.
I am not a rap fan but I have noticed many rap singers using Auto tune.
BIG time rap people. You can hear it plain as day on their voice.
Sounds...robotic and synthetic.
Old 14th April 2018
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRAZZ View Post
Live performance is so loud that it is not obvious at all.
I would definitely challenge that statement. Although it may not sound robotic when used well, I guarantee that the harmonic information has changed and this often makes the source sound hard or have nasty sounding harmonics. So pitch many sound more accurate but tone goes out the window and you can hear it live.
Old 14th April 2018
  #12
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Thread Starter
I want to use it with moderate levels for the church band. At the end of verses and chorus sections to keep the vocals pitch improved a bit.

I am thinking of routing their vocal from the mixer to Cubase and have Auto tune on an insert. I don't need to use all the bells and whistles , just the pitch correction. Make sure you select the key they are in and route it back to the mixer on a channel not in use.

Last edited by Jason rocks; 14th April 2018 at 03:28 PM..
Old 16th April 2018
  #13
Yes, TONS of users are running auto tune live, be it a TC pedal, Helicon rack unit, the older Tascam rack unit, Antares AVP unit, or Waves’ Waves Tune Real-time using a soundgrid rack. It’s on a LOT more shows than you would think... and these days it’s a lot easier and more transparent than it has been in the past.
Old 16th April 2018
  #14
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really? i'm then mixing all the 'wrong' bands...

maybe every other year a singer shows up using a device on a song to create additional harmonies; other than that, the only pitch shifters i get to see are the ones that i'm using at foh (mostly eventide for use on a bass and sometimes guitars channels)
Old 16th April 2018
  #15
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Thank you Aisle 6 for your cogent words of wisdom: do you suppose we could solicit an opinion from Sam C about pitch correction in live performance? My opinions are well clarified in the thread I started several weeks ago (so much gear too little time). Unfortunately my contention that punching in or re-tracking a weak vocal segment was a far better protocol than applying pitch correction rolled out a bevy of pitch benders with their panties in a wad. My work as a producer always has a destination of replication of recorded tracks in live performance. The fact that I choose to never do it certainly does not mean I can't: the fact is, as a vocal coach, working on fundamental skill development is far more important to developing performance skills than electronically polishing up a turd of a vocal performance for the sake of expedience.
Hugh
Old 16th April 2018
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aisle 6 View Post
"Anyone using Auto-Tune Live?"

Dear Lord! I hope not.
FFS if you can't sing in tune, YOU CAN'T SING !
Old 16th April 2018
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hughshouse View Post
Unfortunately my contention that punching in or re-tracking a weak vocal segment was a far better protocol than applying pitch correction rolled out a bevy of pitch benders with their panties in a wad. My work as a producer always has a destination of replication of recorded tracks in live performance.
I am in the same camp. Make the singer work for it rather than let a sub par take go by with the "I'll fix it later" attitude. As I said, yes autotune can be used with little artefacts, although not in auto mode, yet it still changes the harmonic content from the original making for a weaker tone.
Old 16th April 2018
  #18
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Thread Starter
Just to clarify, this thread is about using Auto Tune for live purposes only.
Old 16th April 2018
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hughshouse View Post
Thank you Aisle 6 for your cogent words of wisdom: do you suppose we could solicit an opinion from Sam C about pitch correction in live performance? My opinions are well clarified in the thread I started several weeks ago (so much gear too little time). Unfortunately my contention that punching in or re-tracking a weak vocal segment was a far better protocol than applying pitch correction rolled out a bevy of pitch benders with their panties in a wad. My work as a producer always has a destination of replication of recorded tracks in live performance. The fact that I choose to never do it certainly does not mean I can't: the fact is, as a vocal coach, working on fundamental skill development is far more important to developing performance skills than electronically polishing up a turd of a vocal performance for the sake of expedience.
Hugh
Never used it and have no plans to use it anytime soon, I know some pop singers like John Legend use it as an effect and has learned how to sing into it to get the effect he wants at a given time. Its never blatant but its just below the radar coloring the voice just a little bit.

I don't do a lot of pop however and this type of thing would seem incongruous in world music, jazz, blues, rock and reggae. I'm also in the enviable position of working with some really good singers who would be embarrassed to need/use this type of corrective processing. Some people would be hurt if I ever mentioned that we use pitch correction on their voice live or in the studio.

Like you, I'll be rerecording if something doesn't go down right while recording for the same reasons above. I am mindful however that this type of thing (and a lot of other things I don't particularly like, appeals to some people...who am I to tell them what the should and shouldn't like? Not saying that's what's happening here...but taste is a funny and individual thing.
Old 16th April 2018
  #20
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Aisle 6's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason rocks View Post
Just to clarify, this thread is about using Auto Tune for live purposes only.
Yes I understand that and yes I did venture outside of the OP just a little, however my statement still stands true. You will sacrifice tone for your desired results.
Old 19th April 2018
  #21
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There is a much simpler technique to try with pitchy vocals. Pull the mids down like a HiFi smiley. Pitch is heard in the mid range so trying taking the mids down a little.
Old 19th April 2018
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
Pitch is heard in the mid range so trying taking the mids down a little.
Can you give more information on this? I'd like to read up on this, so any links you have to published studies would be great.

Thanks.
Old 19th April 2018
  #23
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Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
Can you give more information on this? I'd like to read up on this, so any links you have to published studies would be great.

Thanks.
Come on Wyllys. And Samc. As much as I AM a proponent of Science making some simple eq adjustments to a pitchy singer is a simple thing you can try. No Scientific references required.

Its NOT a new technique and you can hear it deployed on a lot or recordings from before the days of auto tune.
Old 19th April 2018
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
There is a much simpler technique to try with pitchy vocals. Pull the mids down like a HiFi smiley. Pitch is heard in the mid range so trying taking the mids down a little.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
Can you give more information on this? I'd like to read up on this, so any links you have to published studies would be great.

Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
Come on Wyllys. And Samc. As much as I AM a proponent of Science making some simple eq adjustments to a pitchy singer is a simple thing you can try. Np Scientific references required.

Its NOT a new technique and you can hear it deployed on a lot or recordings from before the days of auto tune.
Anthony...

I'm serious. This is an interesting concept and I'd seriously like to learn more. If you can provide further reference or explanation that would be great. I'm curious as to what recordings were done this way and any engineers who turned you on to the technique.

Thanks.
Old 19th April 2018
  #25
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Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
Anthony...

I'm serious. This is an interesting concept and I'd seriously like to learn more. If you can provide further reference or explanation that would be great.

Thanks.
Wyllys. I'm not taking you as being serious and and I haven't recommended anything that you haven't already done.

This is only adding to my view that your here for your own entertainment and not to be particularly helpful.

For anyone bewildered by this exchange its just a carry over from another thread.
Old 19th April 2018
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post
Wyllys. I'm not taking you as being serious and and I haven't recommended anything that you haven't already done.

This is only adding to my view that your here for your own entertainment and not to be particularly helpful.

For anyone bewildered by this exchange its just a carry over from another thread.
New topic, clean slate.

What type of EQ do you use and what process does one go through to do this? Do you do this live or just in the studio?
I really have never had to do this and I'm really curious about it. Seriously.

I found some info here:

Hearing

Is this what you're referring to?

PITCH

People's ability to judge pitch is quite variable. (Pitch is the quality of sound associated with frequency.) Most subjects studied could match pitches very well, usually getting the frequencies of two sine waves within 3%. (Musicians can match frequencies to 1%, or should be able to.) Better results are obtained if the stimuli are similar complex tones, which makes sense since there are more active points along the basilar membrane to give clues. Dissimilar complex tones are apparently fairly difficult to match for pitch (judging from experience with ear training students; I haven't seen any studies on the matter to compare them with sine tone results).

Judgment of relative pitch intervals is extremely variable. The notion of the two to one frequency ratio for the octave is probably learned, although it is easily learned given access to a musical instrument. An untrained subject, asked to set the frequency of a tone to twice that of a reference, is quite likely to set them a twelfth or two octaves apart or find some arbitrary and inconsistent ratio. The tendency to land on "proper" intervals increases if complex tones are used instead of sine tones. Trained musicians often produce octaves slightly wider than two to one, although the practical aspects of their instrument strongly influence their sense of interval. (As a bassoonist who has played the same instrument for twenty years, I have a very strong tendency to place G below middle C a bit high.)

Identification of intervals is even more variable, even among musicians. It does appear to be trainable, suggesting it is a learned ability. Identification of exact pitches is so rare that it has not been properly studied, but there is some anecdotal evidence (such as its relatively more common occurrence among people blind from birth) suggesting it is somehow learned also.

The amplitude of sound does not have a strong effect on the perception of pitch. Such effects seem to hold only for sine tones. At low loudness levels pitch recognition of pure tones becomes difficult, and at high levels increasing loudness seems to shift low and middle register pitches down and high register pitches up.

The assignment of the quality of possessing pitch in the first place depends on the duration and spectral content of the sound. If a sound is shorter than 200ms or so, pitch assignment becomes difficult with decreasing length until a sound of 50ms or less can only be described as a pop. Sounds with waveforms fitting the harmonic pattern are clearly heard as pitched, even if the frequencies are offset by some additive factor. As the spectral plot deviates from the harmonic model, the sense of pitch is reduced, although even noise retains some sense of being high or low.



Thanks.

Last edited by Wyllys; 20th April 2018 at 12:20 AM..
Old 20th April 2018
  #27
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Originally Posted by BazzBass View Post
FFS if you can't sing in tune, YOU CAN'T SING !

Michael Buble can sing in tune and he uses it. On record. Live as well.

YouTube
Old 20th April 2018
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
New topic, clean slate.

What type of EQ do you use and what process does one go through to do this? Do you do this live or just in the studio?
I really have never had to do this and I'm really curious about it. Seriously.

I found some info here:

Hearing

Is this what you're referring to? Pic attached.

Thanks.
You've asked the right questions Wyllys. Really good questions. And I'm not giving an answer as I'm not claiming to know the specific answers and it will depend on the gear you have at your disposal.


I'm suggesting trial and error. The link is along the lines but not specifically what I'm talking about.

This concept came to my attention as a singer trying to sing along with recorded materials. I was trying to get a sense of pitch but there wasn't really much pitch information in the song. My voice on the other hand had a LOT of pitch information and it was easy for me to sound out if I wasn't careful. Its easy to hear this in recorded guitar music. The difference between mid heavy and mid scooped guitar sounds is dramatic.

Personally I like to use microphones with really flat responses as microphones with bumps in their responses amplify frequencies that I don't hear when I'm singing and I can sound pitchy when using them.

A broad range mid cut is easy enough but will obviously remove content that you don't need/want to remove. It still sounds smoother and less obtrusive than autotune. More precise cuts may do better but also worse if not properly controlled.

You can all run your own experiments as I was just making a broad suggestion.
Old 20th April 2018
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyG View Post

Personally I like to use microphones with really flat responses as microphones with bumps in their responses amplify frequencies that I don't hear when I'm singing and I can sound pitchy when using them.
My favorite mic for when I would sing has always been an RE20. I think that's about as flat as it gets.
Old 20th April 2018
  #30
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I'm happy to sing into a Line Audio Design CM3 small diaphragm condenser. Its not a renowned vocal microphone but its as dead flat as you can get.
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