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New Yamaha DZR series! Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 14th April 2018
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dickiefunk View Post
Is there any other powered speakers that will be a step up from the DXR15’s in audio quality, depth of bass and output?
Have you ever looked at the DSR115? Seems like it should have more output and slightly more bass response, though I must admit don't see it mentioned as often as the DXR15 nor the DSR112. It's only $200 more than the DXR15; the DZR15 on the other hand looks like a bigger step up in price. At least $1500 minimum I'm guessing, based on the UK price.
Old 14th April 2018
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Svelte View Post
Have you ever looked at the DSR115? Seems like it should have more output and slightly more bass response, though I must admit don't see it mentioned as often as the DXR15 nor the DSR112. It's only $200 more than the DXR15; the DZR15 on the other hand looks like a bigger step up in price. At least $1500 minimum I'm guessing, based on the UK price.
Unfortunately the DSR115’s are too heavy for me to lift onto stands. The DXR15’s are as heavy as I can manage as I have a back injury.
Old 14th April 2018
  #33
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MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
we are Yamaha dealers & from my perspective Yamaha may have had done such a good job with the DXR that they are taking the opportunity to move upmarket..eventually (i believe) replacing the DSR with the new DZR series.
After completing a 40+box install of Martin CDDLive with no analog drive cables, Dante is the now & future and i welcome a Yamaha product with this capability.
Old 14th April 2018
  #34
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@Samc,

I wasn't attempting to say that the UPA's are fragile. I was saying I don't have the nerve to push a pair to limit ..... they are a $4500 box and breaking a pair of them would make quite a mistake if you managed to blow them.
@dickiefunk,

I doubt the 12" DZR will rival your DXR15 in its ability to fill a room all by itself. I know for sure that my DSR112 will not. The DSR112 is a fantastic speaker, but lacks any convincing bottom end. Put them over subs .... and look out They also make a great duo rig for guitar, bass, singing, etc.

As pointed out, the DSR115's are monstrous with respect to output; however, I find them not as well balanced as the DXR15, and as you point out, they are much heavier .... and expensive.
@MIKEHARRIS,

I think you are correct. Yamaha did a great job on the DXR series.... so much so that it ate into their DSR series sales. They were simply targeted at the same market. Remember, the DSR came first and was designed to complete with the PRX612m which beat it to market. I personally feel that the DSR tap danced all over the PRX and that Yamaha produced a speaker that was only $100 more than the PRX that was a significant step up in both output and sound quality (not that I believe the PRX is a bad speaker, it is quite good IMO. I have no problem playing a gig with them at all).

The DZR can command a higher price and compete with the SRX powered line (which has found a pretty good following since its release. We all remember the venerable passive SRX 7XX series with affection, so this makes perfect sense).

It is in this market that I totally disagree with Samc. There is absolutely a market for a single 12" box with higher output than the current crop of powered speakers which maintains good sound quality behavior at those higher SPL's. I think this market is much smaller than that of the DXR which is now Yamaha's bread and butter speaker IMO.

The horn argument is silly. Design cost difference between a good horn and a crappy one are negligible. This is especially true when spread over a couple of hundred thousand units.

I am wondering if Yamaha should not have marketed them as a Nexo speaker instead though.

At any rate, I maintain my belief that if Yamaha has created a powered speaker that is a step up from the DSR series (especially the subs), they will find a ready market for such speakers. I think that we will all just have to wait and hear for ourselves when they become available in the wild.
Old 14th April 2018
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneEng View Post

@dickiefunk,

I doubt the 12" DZR will rival your DXR15 in its ability to fill a room all by itself. I know for sure that my DSR112 will not. The DSR112 is a fantastic speaker, but lacks any convincing bottom end. Put them over subs .... and look out They also make a great duo rig for guitar, bass, singing, etc.
Yes this may be true. However Yamaha are advertising these has having “unrivalled low frequency bass sound reproduction”. Whilst I find this very hard to believe the specs say they go lower than my DXR15’s (depending on how this was tested and measured)!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneEng View Post

I think that we will all just have to wait and hear for ourselves when they become available in the wild.
Yep definitely
Old 15th April 2018
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dickiefunk View Post
Yes this may be true. However Yamaha are advertising these has having “unrivalled low frequency bass sound reproduction”. Whilst I find this very hard to believe the specs say they go lower than my DXR15’s (depending on how this was tested and measured)!?
That would be amazing if it were true (and I hope it is). I have yet to hear any 12" that could put out the LF like a 15" (in the same price range). This could be the year
Old 15th April 2018
  #37
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dickiefunk's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneEng View Post
That would be amazing if it were true (and I hope it is). I have yet to hear any 12" that could put out the LF like a 15" (in the same price range). This could be the year
Well the DZR’s are double the price of the DXR’s so maybe?
Old 15th April 2018
  #38
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I'll say this about horn/box design and then drop this discussion. Engineers who design pro systems do not design the horns in a vacuum and they (usually) do not design a generic product. They design for a specific performance which may also include a custom compression driver too and it must work with the rest of the system. There is a reason why you can't just throw any horn into a Meyer box for example and maintain system integrity...if this was as easy (and silly) as it seems everybody would be doing it. I'm not a horn designer, but I know this because I've done consulting work for a couple of the A-list loudspeaker manufacturers.

The best thing Yamaha has done is to leave Nexo alone to do their thing and not try to mess with them, they were a successful company with a good reputation when Yamaha came along...Yamaha did good not to interfere with a good thing. Putting the Nexo brand on a bunch of relatively cheap MI loudspeakers would kill Nexo's reputation and reduce their marketshare in a heartbeat...

Appart from the sound quality gap between the two brands, which is not negligible, there is the image and price gap to consider. They can't raise the price of the MI boxes to that of the Nexo boxes because the quality is not the same and they would become too pricy for the target customers. They certainly can't drop the prices of the Nexo boxes without lowering the quality because they would loose money and their reputation.

People who can afford PS, GEO S, UPA, UPQ or X12 series boxes are not buying DSR boxes instead, and I don't think they will run out and buy the new boxes either. And despite the superior performance, the people who buy the Yamaha boxes do so primarily because of the price/performance they cost and offer respectively...they either can't, or don't have the need to spend more for their needs.
Old 15th April 2018
  #39
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@dickiefunk,

You are correct about the specs. There are a few interesting things, but lets look at the frequency response first:

Both boxes are measured at -10db points (which is really kind of a stretch IMO ... but it is common practice these days)

DXR15: 49-20Khz
DSR112: 55-20Khz
DZR12: 39-20Khz

First let me state that a DXR15 simply blows the pants off of a DSR112 in LF when both are simply taking a full range signal. This is a fact. The 6hz difference in specification does not even begin to show the difference in real life playback IMO.

Still, you are correct here. The specs clearly show the DZR12 being capable of a significantly lower response.

Now lets look at the amp module PEAK ratings:

DXR15: LF 950, HF 150
DSR112: LF 1020, HF 450
DZR12: LF 1000, HF 1000

... and continous:

DXR15: LF 600, HF 100
DSR112: LF 850, HF 450
DZR12: LF 920, HF 380

Since I have already stated that a DXR15 has audibly much more LF than a DSR112, you can see that the power ratings between speakers are totally meaningless .... especially between driver size differences which make a much bigger effect.

Analyzing the difference between the 2 12" models though, what we see is an actual decrease in the peak output in LF, but an INCREASE in continuous LF output. From this, and more importantly the SPL change and frequency change, I would tend to believe that the DZR12 does indeed have more low end than the DSR112. I am still not willing to go all the way to saying that it will beat out your venerable DXR15 though

@Samc,
Quote:
People who can afford PS, GEO S, UPA, UPQ or X12 series boxes are not buying DSR boxes instead, and I don't think they will run out and buy the new boxes either. And despite the superior performance, the people who buy the Yamaha boxes do so primarily because of the price/performance they cost and offer respectively...they either can't, or don't have the need to spend more for their needs.
Never said that. I simply don't believe that these higher end speakers actually get any louder than a DSR112 does. Array better? Yes, Sound quality better? Yes, better support? yes. Louder 1-1? Don't think so, but never had the guts to try it.

Yamaha has done the same thing with Nexo as Behringer has done with MIDAS. The original product line is in-tact, and the technology from the higher end design has been brought into the lower line where it didn't significantly increase the cost of the product. It was widely held that Nexo designed the horn for the DSR series and the FIR processing as well. Neither one of these things increase the price of the product, but they greatly improve the quality of the sound of the product.

Where the higher end manufacturers can break away from the MI pack is in materials. Better drivers cost money. Better enclosure material costs money.

Given the same design team capabilities, and 2 wildly different budgets, the team with more money will create a better product.

Keep in mind that MI products are more and more cutting into the higher end as the gap between MI and PRO decreases in both features and sound quality. While there will always be a market for the "best", I believe that this market will shrink as time goes on and MI pushes designs to be better with less.

I think Yamaha sees this and the DZR is their response to this trend. They will get some market from the high end which listen to the DZR and think it is close enough to Meyer for their purposes (I mean really, do talking heads need a UPA system?), and they will also get those of us in the weekend warrior market who are willing to pay a little extra above the MI of today to get something that is audibly better, but not 4-5 times the price (only 1.5 lets say).
Old 15th April 2018
  #40
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FYI,

To put the price in perspective in USD:

UPA 1P $4500
DZR 12 $1550
SRX 812p $1300
KW112 $1100
DSR 112 $900
Old 15th April 2018
  #41
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It is impossible to debate a fact based topic with someone who base their arguments on speculation...they can never be wrong, all they have to do is argue what they think/believe.

"I simply don't believe that these higher end speakers actually get any louder than a DSR112 does." Even though I've never actually heard any of the other systems at full tilt or listened to any of them next to the DSR box... "It was widely held that Nexo designed the horn for the DSR series and the FIR processing as well." None of the above have to be true its just what I want to believe.

There are three things (not one) that separates the pro loudspeakers from the MI boxes: The design, the quality of the parts and materials used and the construction...you must have all three. until MI loudspeakers can cover bar gigs one day and then do a stadium with 90,000 people with at least the same power and sound quality of pro systems, pro systems will always be needed. I don't see MI boxes cutting into the high-end at all, as I said before the people who can afford pro boxes are not running out and buying MI boxes, it will take more than just loudness to fill the duties of pro loudspeakers. There is an infinite supply of new young bands that need a PA, that is their primary growth area.
Old 16th April 2018
  #42
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Lets just wait until the product is out and we will see how good it holds up then.

I believe that even when they are released, there may be some people here who trash them. After all Sam, you still contend that the DSR112 sounds bad.
Old 16th April 2018
  #43
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dickiefunk's Avatar
I have just had a reply from Yamaha and they said the DZR12 definitely goes deeper than the DXR15’s. They also said the DZR’s are designed to not only be the loudest in its class but also offer the deepest bass extension in its class.

Definitely want to hear these now!
Old 16th April 2018
  #44
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How well they'll hold up in bar/small venue gigs was never in question and is not the topic of the debate, I'm sure that the people who buy them will love them for any number of reasons, my contention however is that they will not outperform pro boxes as their published specifications imply.

I do not believe they will take market share away from professional loudspeakers...and according to my knowledge and experience, either Yamaha found the magic formula of design, materials technology and the way to put it all together or the published specifications are decidedly not what they claim to be.

I don't "contend" that the DSR112 sound bad, I Know they don't sound as good as pro boxes to me (and most professionals) and I think they sound okay at best.

Again, it is not my intention to convince you of anything, I'm expressing my opinion.
Old 16th April 2018
  #45
S21
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Every speaker ever released by anyone was best-in-class, according to the marketing guys.

If the specs were true, why do they sell subs?
Old 16th April 2018
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S21 View Post
Every speaker ever released by anyone was best-in-class, according to the marketing guys.

If the specs were true, why do they sell subs?
Ha ha this is very true!!

I’m not expecting the DZR’s to be going anywhere near the performance of a good sub! However, if they outperform my DXR15’s in overall audio quality, depth of bass and output I will be more than happy. The DXR15’s by themselves are plenty for around 60-70% of my work and if I’m able to get a pair of powered speakers that will be even better whilst weighing slightly less then it’s a no brainier for me.

I’m not doing events in excess of 300-350 people and the majority is 150 or less.
Old 17th April 2018
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dickiefunk View Post
Ha ha this is very true!!
The DXR15’s by themselves are plenty for around 60-70% of my work and if I’m able to get a pair of powered speakers that will be even better whilst weighing slightly less then it’s a no brainier for me.

I’m not doing events in excess of 300-350 people and the majority is 150 or less.
I'm looking to build a small, portable PA for small to medium rooms, and I'm thinking of potentially going with a pair of dxr15's, but I wonder how they would fair in smaller rooms (30-50 people, sometimes less). Would even just one dxr15 be too overwhelming in this scenario? I'd like to run everything through it—vocals, synth, and sample playback machine (drums, guitar). I don't need it to be ear-blisteringly loud, but I'm intrigued that a pair of them have enough low-end power to fill spaces without subs. I've seen a lot of people denounce using 15's in this application though, arguing for more flexible options, but the dxr sounds like its got a lot of good word behind it when used this way.

If I didn't go for the pair of 15's, I would probably get two dxr10s and a dxs12 mkii sub (once it comes out), or a pair of k10.2s with a ks112 sub (when that comes out). The ks112 looks crazy portable at 62 pounds with built in casters, and I also prefer its form factor, but the yamaha system is $300 cheaper, and still pretty portable. Really I'm just looking for a portable rig that can expand to fill medium venues and shrink down for smaller ones, and while I know the dxr15's can handle bigger venues, I wonder how it fairs in smaller ones, at lower volumes. I know you're a huge advocate of them—what do you think? I know conventionally wisdoms says that a dedicated sub and smaller mains will win out over a pair of 15's, but if the dxrs are just good enough, I can live with em. At $1500 for the pair, with all my bases covered, that ain't bad. I could definitely put that saved money to good use.

I'm also interested in the dzr series, but it would cost so much more to get a full, matching system (whether 12s/10s with subs or a pair of 15s) and I'd like to wait until some in-the-wild reviews come out to see if the specs are really all they're cracked up to be.
Old 17th April 2018
  #48
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Wyllys's Avatar
 

Yamaha ad campaign:

"D'ZR good speakers!"
Old 17th April 2018
  #49
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I’ve used the DXR15’s in small rooms fine. Smaller 12”or 10” tops over subs would probably be a better option but I’ve only tried the seriously budget Alto TS210’s over the TS 212 Subs. In this case I preferred the DXR15’s by themselves. I found the Alto sub to sound very muddy and boomy and there was a lot of port noise! The low end of the DXR15’s was much more defined and the sound overall was much clearer and detailed.
Old 27th April 2018
  #50
Quote:
Originally Posted by dickiefunk View Post
I’ve used the DXR15’s in small rooms fine. Smaller 12”or 10” tops over subs would probably be a better option but I’ve only tried the seriously budget Alto TS210’s over the TS 212 Subs. In this case I preferred the DXR15’s by themselves. I found the Alto sub to sound very muddy and boomy and there was a lot of port noise! The low end of the DXR15’s was much more defined and the sound overall was much clearer and detailed.
Thanks to you I've been drawn towards the Truesonic speakers for a few years.

Finally had an opportunity to hear them for myself - bought one this week, listened to it for a few hours today and before you invest in anything, as foolish as it sounds, please listen to each of the TS3 the 10's, 12's and 15's.

I know it sounds absolutely foolish, and impossible, but there is something very special about these new speakers.

At 1st listen it sounds impossible, either you think your hearing is wrong or the speaker is wrong, but after an extensive day of listening at healthy volumes, with some caveats, which I will add to the thread link below, as I audition the more, the TS3s are something special.

There is a clarity in them that absolutely negates the need for loud. Properly setup, they are crystal clear and any distortion is shockingly a transparent reflection of distortion or things like compression artefacts/or deliberately distorted audio in the source signal.

Trust me - properly setup - they sound like nothing I have ever heard in PA - nothing. I speak not of the loudness but the effortless clarity. What you put in is what you get out of them - if you hear it in the speaker - you can be pretty sure 95% of what you hear is in the source audio.

I am not saying they are the best, but at reasonable volumes - as I have not field tested these at an event, they are exceptionally clear - and will totally rejig all your philosophy of mixing for live events, they've just done this to me.

I realise that all that effort to get a good mix was partly cos the speakers were altering the audio and the mixing engineer is partly fighting with the speakers, to compensate. I anticipate - with this speaker series - they are uncannily flat frequency - relatively speaking - from 50hz to 20Khz - like a high end studio monitor. (of course the best studio monitors go lower than 50hz).

The challenge with these speakers is that most people will not believe their ears - how can something this inexpensive beat top brass speakers, in clarity?? And will conclude - there must be something wrong with the speakers - I have never heard a speaker that seperated the good, bad and ugly of recorded music so clearly, effortlessly - if it's in the audio - you hear it, without any effort.

Any harshness is in the audio signal, yes shocking to hear how much is in (or is not in) a lot of the music we listen to.

These speakers are also excellent for playback of recorded music. Very very transparent.

Note the caveat - some eq tailoring is advised, similar to system tuning for large PA's. But once this is done - voila.

From my experience - not as extensive as yours - as I am not a full time music/audio professional, I postulate and have observed that the audio does not need to be so loud, if it is clear and absolutely - these speakers are very very clear - shockingly clear.

I have heard the DXR's at Yamaha Music in London, and still prefer these, the Alto TS3's.

I will leave more comments at the thread below, as time permits.

I thought I owed you this one - payback for all your excellent reviews over recent years.

When you get one(the TS3's to demo) - please listen to some really good music - jazz preferably - acoustic instruments - such as Gregory Porter's music - in mono or stereo - the band is right there in front of you, almost life size, even in mono you can point at every member of the band (from a distance - front to back perspective) - sounds unbelievable - but so true.

I dare not imagine what this speaker will do in a live event... Mixing should become easy and so much fun again, creative fun.

Alto Truesonic TS310 - Tested - Sound very good
Old 27th April 2018
  #51
S21
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I'll take it to the gig in a van that handles really well, as long as there isn't much cargo.
Old 27th April 2018
  #52
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@kodebode,

I find it quite difficult to believe that a speaker with only a 1" hf driver and 2" LF driver at this price point is going to be competitive with the new Yamaha DZR12.

At only 118db SPL vs 139db, the DZR will literally sound 4 times as loud.

I just don't think that anyone considering a DZR will even give a sideways glance at an Alto .... or any other ~$300ish 12" top.
Old 28th April 2018
  #53
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneEng View Post
@kodebode,

I find it quite difficult to believe that a speaker with only a 1" hf driver and 2" LF driver at this price point is going to be competitive with the new Yamaha DZR12.

At only 118db SPL vs 139db, the DZR will literally sound 4 times as loud.

I just don't think that anyone considering a DZR will even give a sideways glance at an Alto .... or any other ~$300ish 12" top.
No contest - on paper the Alto TS's cannot compete with the measured or estimated loudness of the Yamaha DZR's. Absolutely no argument on this variance.

My key point, in chiming in here, was about the clarity of the audio, which I experienced, listening to the Alto speaker - not about the loudness.

Dickiefunk - the OP, had included improved clarity as one of his requirements, and possible reasons for taking an interest in the DZR. I am aware he owns/has owned the versions 1 and 2 of the Alto TS series, which is the primary reason I suggest he gives them a close look.

As I mentioned earlier, I have prior experiences with live audio, where improved clarity negated the need for more volume/loudness, if I may add typically some of this demand for loudness is to compensate for the reduction in clarity that exists when speakers are driven near their upper limits.

I am not aware of any widely accepted measure for "clarity" so cannot compare this aspect of these speakers. None other except personal opinion.

It might seem foolish to expect that an Alto could best a Yamaha in clarity, but the new Alto's deserve an audition.

Nevertheless, I attest these are the most revealing and life-like portable PA speakers I have ever heard - bar none. Playback of reference tracks I know very well, was like learning to walk again - in audio terms, a whole new experience. My digital piano - now sounds like its more like the actual sampled instrument playing in the room. Caveat - some custom tuning via eq is needed to optimise the speaker(similar to what might be achieved via system tuning or via Driverack using profiles for a specific speaker - where one exists), as they have provided very limited options - for EQ presets(only two - flat and contoured), but once this is done to your taste, all further audio playback is a revelation.

On the flip side, because the reproduction, further to aforementioned optimisation is so revealing and distortion free, the usual loudness cues that let you know - this is a loud PA - typically cos your ear hears unconsciously the onset of distortion, are relatively absent, I found myself listening inadvertently for longer, at higher loudness levels than I would have preferred.
Old 28th April 2018
  #54
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I did a comparison between the Alto TS210’s + TS212 Subs, Alto TS212’s and Yamaha DXR15’s a while back. Despite the Alto’s being pretty good for the money they were not even close to the DXR15’s regarding clarity!! The TS210’s sounded really boxy and lacked in a lot of clarity next to the DXR15’s. The Alto TS212 Subs put out quite a lot of sound but it was very muddy and boomy. The DXR15’s go surprisingly deep and the clarity in the low frequencies was significantly better. Also at higher volumes there was a lot of port buzzing from the Alto TS212 Sub but the Yamaha DXR15 didn’t have any of this. The Yamaha continued to sound clean and clear when driven but the Alto’s started to noticeably break up.
Regarding the Alto TS212’s I just didn’t like those! They sounded very scooped with very boomy muddy bass and harsh high frequencies.
I still find the Alto TS210’s to be a good value for money and useful speaker but I can’t imagine the TS3 series would be better than the Yamaha DXR’s let alone the DSR’s or DZR’s let alone higher end Nexo PS, KV2 EX and D&B E series systems!!
Old 28th April 2018
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dickiefunk View Post
Yes this may be true. However Yamaha are advertising these has having “unrivalled low frequency bass sound reproduction”. Whilst I find this very hard to believe the specs say they go lower than my DXR15’s (depending on how this was tested and measured)!?
Copied and pasted - a post of mine on another forum on the same topic:

"As you go lower in frequency, you need to move increasing amounts of air to maintain SPL. That's why a 3" HF unit can keep up with a few 18" subs. It works out as 4x the volume of air moved per octave down you go.

For a given cone size, moving more air means more cone movement, which is fine until you start exceeding the amount of linear cone movement available (generally known as Xmax - exact definitions vary, but it's accepted that things will start sounding bad past Xmax). Generally, "better" drivers will have more Xmax than "cheaper" drivers, though there are a lot of factors at play.

The DSR112's limited low-frequency extension means you don't need to use much cone excursion to get really loud in the 70Hz+ range. As a result, you don't necessarily need a fantastic driver to do that job.

From what I can tell, the DZR range uses better drivers than the DSR range, but they're also making some serious demands of those drivers - a 12" box rated for use down to 39Hz..?
Hope they've got around 4x the Xmax of the DSR drivers if they want to keep up in output.


From what I can tell, the DSR drivers have 3" coils and look to be closely related to the Eminence Kappalite range. Even being conservative with the estimate, you might say the DSR units have 4mm of one-way linear cone travel. Eminence's numbers show 6.2mm.

Here's one of the best midbass units in the world: Product Detail - Rcf Portal
4" voice coil, lots of power handling, very efficient, etc etc.
Xmax is 7mm.

I believe this might technically be a subwoofer driver: FaitalPRO | LF Loudspeakers | 12HP1060
But you could use it for midbass duties. 12.45mm Xmax.

I could carry on, but there's no PA 12" driver with 16mm of one-way linear cone travel.
As a result, I expect the DSR range will get louder before needing to engage the limiters, but the DZR range will get close and have more LF extension if the drivers are a good step up from the DSR's.

You can help that by using clever multi-band dynamic EQ that cuts down the areas where cone excursion is highest (I'm certain all the Yamaha active speakers do this), but now you've got a cabinet that's changing it's own frequency response for the sake of a couple more dB of output, and that's not really for me."

Chris
Old 28th April 2018
  #56
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dickiefunk's Avatar
Thanks Chris that’s very interesting and useful to read. I’m not expecting miracles from the DZR range but if they outperform my DXR15’s in audio fidelity and depth of bass with the same output then this has the potential to be a very useful box for my needs.
Old 30th April 2018
  #57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Svelte View Post
I'm looking to build a small, portable PA for small to medium rooms, and I'm thinking of potentially going with a pair of dxr15's, but I wonder how they would fair in smaller rooms (30-50 people, sometimes less). Would even just one dxr15 be too overwhelming in this scenario? I'd like to run everything through it—vocals, synth, and sample playback machine (drums, guitar). I don't need it to be ear-blisteringly loud, but I'm intrigued that a pair of them have enough low-end power to fill spaces without subs. I've seen a lot of people denounce using 15's in this application though, arguing for more flexible options, but the dxr sounds like its got a lot of good word behind it when used this way.

If I didn't go for the pair of 15's, I would probably get two dxr10s and a dxs12 mkii sub (once it comes out), or a pair of k10.2s with a ks112 sub (when that comes out). The ks112 looks crazy portable at 62 pounds with built in casters, and I also prefer its form factor, but the yamaha system is $300 cheaper, and still pretty portable. Really I'm just looking for a portable rig that can expand to fill medium venues and shrink down for smaller ones, and while I know the dxr15's can handle bigger venues, I wonder how it fairs in smaller ones, at lower volumes. I know you're a huge advocate of them—what do you think? I know conventionally wisdoms says that a dedicated sub and smaller mains will win out over a pair of 15's, but if the dxrs are just good enough, I can live with em. At $1500 for the pair, with all my bases covered, that ain't bad. I could definitely put that saved money to good use.

I'm also interested in the dzr series, but it would cost so much more to get a full, matching system (whether 12s/10s with subs or a pair of 15s) and I'd like to wait until some in-the-wild reviews come out to see if the specs are really all they're cracked up to be.
Based on what you have specified and I repeat what I understand - portability, clarity, and you do not need it to be especially loud.

There is a school of thought I read in magazines and forums, and from my own experience with PA's as a volunteer audio engineer, one which I tend to agree with, a 12 inch woofer speaker sounds more accurate in the mid range than a 15 inch woofer, in the same model range, as an example I prefer 10 or 12 inch woofer speakers as monitors for speakers/singers.

Nevertheless the 15 inch woofer delivers a more effortless low end. So pick your poison, what is of priority to you?, low end extension or clarity in the mid range so that voices can project really well, which is probably one of your priorities - we all know what a voice sounds like in real life, and its one of the things we spot very easily in a PA, especially when the singer is in the same room, or a voice recording is being played back. Particularly if you are close to a live singer where there is no center fill speaker, too much of a difference between the direct sound of the singer and the version of audio coming from the speaker is even more noticeable.

On the other hand more recent active/powered speakers are getting better at delivering more low frequencies from the same size of woofer. How they achieve this is another discussion topic, not too relevant here.

So the low frequency performance of more recent 12 inch woofer speakers, tends towards what was achievable in the 15 inch woofer speakers of yesteryears.

In a live scenario, you may find that there really is not that much difference to be bothered about this, one way or another - either could do the job very well pick any one.

And in this case other criteria such as weight and size come into play, of course the 12 inch woofer versions will be lighter in general.

From an image perspective - does the size - how much stage space they take up in the view matter? The 12's would be that bit more unobtrusive.

The only way to be definitive is try both of them out 12 inch and 15 inch and hear for yourself.

Ideally order one of each - do a gig with this setup, nothing wrong with a bit of asymmetry in the looks for one gig, volumes can be adjusted via the dials to still sound about the same, turning down the 15 inch a tad lower on the volume controls at the back of the speaker(best anyways to compare at as equivalent a volume as possible), and you can compare the sound, and return/replace the one you like the least.

If you really need to rattle some bones/chests/feet/ear drums - please add subs - at least one., to which you can offload much of the low frequency reproduction and enable the 12 inch woofer speaker top to sound even better.
Old 9th May 2018
  #58
Gear Head
 

Looks like a major update to the DXR series larger 2" voicecoil on horn and 3" on woofer but the whole series is heavier.
Old 12th September 2018
  #59
Lives for gear
 
dickiefunk's Avatar
I've got a pair of the DZR12's arriving in the next few days
Old 13th September 2018
  #60
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by dickiefunk View Post
I've got a pair of the DZR12's arriving in the next few days
Interessted to hear what you have to say about them!
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