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Another PA Choice thread! Brooklyn Audio, Void, KV2 inside! Electric Guitar Amplification
Old 1 week ago
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Thread Starter
Another PA Choice thread! Brooklyn Audio, Void, KV2 inside!

Hi All,

I'm going to try give as much info as possible to try give a clear picture, but I WILL forget something so just ask if clarification is needed.

My brother and I run a small PA hire company but we are growing rapidly. Thanks to some regular contracts and also some hire kit installed in venues, we are looking at new boxes.

We currently run quite a few small shows, so have generally stuck with smaller systems that could be combined relatively well. We do shows of every type from conferences to metal to dance shows to theatre. You get the idea, has to be able to cope with a wide variety of tasks.

Our current stock is made up of;
4x FBT Mitus 152A
6 x FBT Mitus 218A
4 x QSC K12
4 x QSC K8
6 x QSC KW181
2 x QSC KSub
HK Linear5
HK PR0 Mons
Mackie SRM450 & 350
Various old HK/Peavey/other gear (JUNK).

On to the issue at hand. We are looking to consolidate to 1 system, able to scale to deal with large issues. We were originally going to stick with the FBT system, but tbh we've had quite a few issues with them. I have to admit, for the price they are excellent! however, the subs are very....spray-ey? the sound out the front is lovely, tight and well rounded, but they are truly omnidirectional and cause major issues on stage even when rigged in a cardiod setup. This also isn't something we have to ability to do all the time as we need all the power shooting forward for larger events.

The QSC's have been excellent. We have had them for years and they have brought in more money than probably anything else in the warehouse. They are troopers, and the quality and sound from a small box I think is unrivalled.

So. Options.

I've been majorly considering Brooklyn audio after reading about them on this site and from what I can tell, they look exceptional, and are reasonably priced. If I decide to go for them, I will make the journey to the Netherlands to hear the system

Though most of our work is varied, we have had quite a uptake in dance music, small festival's and EDM and I have been seriously considering Void Acoustics. While i'm personally not into that kind of music, I LOVE the bass response these types of speakers provide. I am looking at the Stasys system, but I have also just been offered a system compromising of Arcline 6 x 4, Arcline X x4 and 3 x lab gruppen LAB4000 for £8000 which I am considering, although it doesn't have the 18" subs I was looking at originally.

I also wanted to know opinions on KV2, Martin etc as I don't know much about these companies.

I have roughly £15,000 to play with right now, with hopefully another £20,000 to add further boxes if needed in the next 6 months. It would have been higher had I not decided to buy a house. Ohwell

Anyway, any opinions would be great.

Cheers

Andy
Old 1 week ago
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Are you only interested in the brands you're asking about, or are you also interested in used professional loudspeakers from more established brands like d&b, L'Acoustics, Nexo, Martin and Meyer sound for example?
Old 1 week ago
  #3
Here for the gear
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Are you only interested in the brands you're asking about, or are you also interested in used professional loudspeakers from more established brands like d&b, L'Acoustics, Nexo, Martin and Meyer sound for example?
wow sam, are you just always on this board, Crazy fast response.
I'm open to any brands, have looked at all the other brands vaguely but can't see anything that would fit the bill right now. But then again I don't know much about any of those brands apart from their line arrays. I am looking at used, but preferably used equipment that is relatively new and still plenty available. Not something years old and only available for sale once a century.

Cheers
Old 1 week ago
  #4
Lives for gear
 

There are a lot of really good "heritage" point-source (and line array) systems from premier manufacturers that meet your criteria. a flexible system that can be arrayed and is scalable is paramount for the things you want to do. being able to cross-rent allows more possibilities for bigger gigs and renting your rig to other production houses.

Here are some systems you might want to look at:

Meyer Sound:
CQ1/2 - active, point source system.
MSL4 - active, point source system.

L'Acoustics:
original ARCS - passive, point source system.
DV Dosc - passive, line array system.

d&b audiotechnik:
C7 - passive point source system.
Q10 - passive point-source/line array system.

Nexo:
Alpha/Alpha e - passive point source system.
PS 8/10/15 - passive point source systems.
GEO 1210 - passive point source/line array system.

Martin Audio:
W8C - passive, point source system.
W0.5/W1/W2/W3 - passive, point source systems.

These are systems that you can still find used in Europe and the UK, and although most are "heritage" systems it's still relatively easy to find replacement parts and you can still see them being used at venues and on B and C stages at some festivals. More importantly though is they all sound good, are scalable, they are made for the road and many of your clients will know them so no hard sell will be necessary in most cases.

All of these systems are plug and play as all modern systems are and will not require any "special" attention if you use the approved controller.

All these systems will do what you want but there may be specific drawbacks to using some systems only you can decide what important considerations you have to keep in mind and pay attention to. The obvious downside is the size and weight of some systems . I suggest that you stick with only one or two brands/systems and that you have at least one system that will also double as stage monitors (like the Nexo PS system) as this will afford more flexibility.
Old 1 week ago
  #5
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Wyllys's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
being able to cross-rent allows more possibilities for bigger gigs and renting your rig to other production houses.
This is not an insignificant or minor part. From a business standpoint (as in "staying in business") it is difficult to over-state the value of cross-renting.
Old 1 week ago
  #6
Here for the gear
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
This is not an insignificant or minor part. From a business standpoint (as in "staying in business") it is difficult to over-state the value of cross-renting.
This was something I had considered, which is why I was reticent to go ahead with the Brooklyn audio system. There is currently very few available and non in the UK, seriously putting me off this.

I really want this to play a major part, another reason I am asking around to find what other engineers recommend and what they might rent.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
There are a lot of really good "heritage" point-source (and line array) systems from premier manufacturers that meet your criteria. a flexible system that can be arrayed and is scalable is paramount for the things you want to do. being able to cross-rent allows more possibilities for bigger gigs and renting your rig to other production houses.

Here are some systems you might want to look at:

Meyer Sound:
CQ1/2 - active, point source system.
MSL4 - active, point source system.

L'Acoustics:
original ARCS - passive, point source system.
DV Dosc - passive, line array system.

d&b audiotechnik:
C7 - passive point source system.
Q10 - passive point-source/line array system.

Nexo:
Alpha/Alpha e - passive point source system.
PS 8/10/15 - passive point source systems.
GEO 1210 - passive point source/line array system.

Martin Audio:
W8C - passive, point source system.
W0.5/W1/W2/W3 - passive, point source systems.

These are systems that you can still find used in Europe and the UK, and although most are "heritage" systems it's still relatively easy to find replacement parts and you can still see them being used at venues and on B and C stages at some festivals. More importantly though is they all sound good, are scalable, they are made for the road and many of your clients will know them so no hard sell will be necessary in most cases.

All of these systems are plug and play as all modern systems are and will not require any "special" attention if you use the approved controller.

All these systems will do what you want but there may be specific drawbacks to using some systems only you can decide what important considerations you have to keep in mind and pay attention to. The obvious downside is the size and weight of some systems . I suggest that you stick with only one or two brands/systems and that you have at least one system that will also double as stage monitors (like the Nexo PS system) as this will afford more flexibility.


I have to say, I wanted to try and stay away from line array's until we were ready to go full scale large format, however I have considered most of your options above. I would love a W8C rig, the same with Q10, but currently I won't get much for my budget.

I want to stay away from nexo, never had a good experience with them and had a bad experience with a nexo systems tech that put me off. Maybe stupid and I may have to give them another listen.

I love the idea of a meyer system, but have to say I've rarely (if ever) seen one for sale in my price range.

The only other thing putting me off 'heritage' equipment as you call it, is the fact that 'in theory' it is already, "out of date". I understand it is being sold by the larger companies because there is a newer, better version, however there are also drawbacks such as the fact you can no longer buy brand new units and have to rely on the used market and also the fact that slowly numbers will drop and cross rented will become harder.
Old 1 week ago
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazydrum95 View Post
I have to say, I wanted to try and stay away from line array's until we were ready to go full scale large format, however I have considered most of your options above. I would love a W8C rig, the same with Q10, but currently I won't get much for my budget.

I want to stay away from nexo, never had a good experience with them and had a bad experience with a nexo systems tech that put me off. Maybe stupid and I may have to give them another listen.

I love the idea of a meyer system, but have to say I've rarely (if ever) seen one for sale in my price range.

The only other thing putting me off 'heritage' equipment as you call it, is the fact that 'in theory' it is already, "out of date". I understand it is being sold by the larger companies because there is a newer, better version, however there are also drawbacks such as the fact you can no longer buy brand new units and have to rely on the used market and also the fact that slowly numbers will drop and cross rented will become harder.
The Nexo PS and Geo systems, the L'Acoustics ARCS are still being sold and supported currently and all the systems I suggested are currently available and will still be available for a few years. Just because a system is discontinued does not mean it's replacement is "better", manufacturers put out new systems regularly for commercial reasons, and sometimes the discontinued systems are being sold under a different model name and with a slight make-over.

To get good deals you will probably have to look outside the UK, I just saw a MSL 4 system (four tops and two subs) on a French site for less than 10,000€. If the systems you're using currently are sufficient for your business you might want to stick with them, but you will have to buy new or almost new if you want newer systems that those that were suggested for a lot more money.

Nexo makes some of the best sounding loudspeaker systems available, you should give them a listen...
Old 1 week ago
  #8
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cheu78's Avatar
I agree with Sam,

I'm not a big fan of the nexo line either, BUT the PS line is really good. (I like it more than the geo).

L'acoustics ARCS or dv dosc are top boxes, love'em.

And the D&B Q line is fantastic as well.

I'd probably lean more on the last two, but they might cost you more than the nexo, but might be more "versatile". Easier on the riders and possibly easier to cross rent..



Cheu
Old 1 week ago
  #9
Lives for gear
 

The C7, Meyer MSL4 and CQ systems are very good performers and versatile systems too...the PS system can do double duty as monitors and FOH, in fact there is not one bad system on the list its just down to personal preference, but this is business, and you don’t buy the system you like, you buy the system that is best for the business and will make you money.

Figure out what your business need and go with that, all the systems at this level are good.
Old 5 days ago
  #10
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Aisle 6's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Meyer Sound:
CQ1/2 - active, point source system.
MSL4 - active, point source system.

L'Acoustics:
original ARCS - passive, point source system.
DV Dosc - passive, line array system.

d&b audiotechnik:
C7 - passive point source system.
Q10 - passive point-source/line array system.

Nexo:
Alpha/Alpha e - passive point source system.
PS 8/10/15 - passive point source systems.
GEO 1210 - passive point source/line array system.

Martin Audio:
W8C - passive, point source system.
W0.5/W1/W2/W3 - passive, point source systems.
These are all excellent systems and although I have preference to some of this am not a fan of others, that is purely personal taste. I will also add the following to look at, although these may fall outside of being widely available in your specific territory.

KV2 Audio ES series - these are amazing value for money, perform very well and although they are really starting to penetrate the EDM and theatre markets, they are excellent live performance PA's that can scale to a limited point.

Adamson Spectrix. A second hand Spectrix is very scaleable and I would put this in the D&B "Q" territory.
Old 5 days ago
  #11
Here for the gear
 

I would check out some of the new Turbosound The IQ series sound pretty good. I just heard a demo of the Berlin and Liverpool live array. They sound really good! At a great ricepoint.
Old 4 days ago
  #12
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Another vote here with Aisle 6: I have never had a problem or experienced any form of disappointment with my KV2 ES stacks and EX10 wedges. I bought the stacks 13 years ago and 3 wedges a year later to offer high quality SR for the acoustic Americana shows we perform. 7 years ago I replaced the original delay lines with the super digital upgrade (EPAK 2500 Delay Line KVN044617) and to date this is the only change from the original design in the ES system. There is a hell of a lot to be said for sticking with the things that consistently work. The primary reason I picked the KV2 over Meyer and EAW was the scaleability to work from 200 to 1,500 seat venues by selecting from 1 to 3 bass bins per side. I frequently do one man small guitar/vocal shows that are very easy to accommodate with the EX10 wedges alone.
I cannot vouch for KV2 SR efficiency in musical genres other than the work we do but for our acoustic music format when driven with our Digico "D" pres at FP32/96K the sonic quality is all I could ever ask for.
Hugh
Old 4 days ago
  #13
S21
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S21's Avatar
 

If you want to be a rental company you need to stock what your customers want to rent.

What do your customers want to rent?

Can you rent that to them profitably? Will it fit in your van?

How it sounds is a secondary consideration (which flows from "will they rent it?")
Old 4 days ago
  #14
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by S21 View Post
If you want to be a rental company you need to stock what your customers want to rent.

What do your customers want to rent?

Can you rent that to them profitably? Will it fit in your van?

How it sounds is a secondary consideration (which flows from "will they rent it?")
I said it already the decision has to be made around the business.
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