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Grumpy Jerks.......
Old 1 week ago
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jude View Post
Righto. you want war/horror stories?

I had the "privilege" of mixing monitors for a wasted Cat Power.

Need I say more?
Oh! Are you the one from the famous Youtube-video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dyJ4tYXvE8
Old 1 week ago
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderboy View Post
Why should he?
Maybe because it was funny to treat them like ****e...but you're probably not British so you wouldn't see the humor.

See...it works both ways.
Old 1 week ago
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Maybe because it was funny to treat them like ****e...but you're probably not British so you wouldn't see the humor.

See...it works both ways.
or maybe there is a difference between treating someone *******e or reacting to being treated like *******e (by telling the story without calling names on a forum and mentioning that hey had the nerve of going on break without doing their job first).

but maybe I am not professional enough to see the error of this.
Old 1 week ago
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderboy View Post
but maybe I am not professional enough to see the error of this.
Some of us were called names and told that we were taking things too seriously when we spoke out against the unprofessional (and juvenile) feedback/face-plant stunt. We were told some garbage that if we weren't so stuck-up on professionalism and if we were from the UK we would find it funny.

I don't see any difference between that and this, it's just unprofessional, bad behavior and at least nobody had to take a face dive. One guy criticized people who claimed the system didn't sound good, and the other guy criticized the house guy because he was convinced the system didn't sound good.

Of course the house guy claims the system performed great before and never had any problems etc and the sound mixers claimed their mixes were always great before...I thought that since you 'LIKED' most of the foolishness you would see the irony here. If someone can find a face-dive story funny, then surely the band being put in their place by the local crew and made to wait while they go for a coffee and cigarette break must be a knee-slapper.

By the way, OT...how can I remove an accidental like for a post?

Last edited by Samc; 1 week ago at 11:53 AM..
Old 1 week ago
  #65
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Wyllys's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderboy View Post
Why should he?
They didn´t do their job during working time.
How did they not do their job? I haven't seen any evidnce the house crew didn't follow their regular procedure. The headliners were set up and sound checked. Job done. The openers then have to take what's left, make the best of it and STFU.

SOP
Old 1 week ago
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
How did they not do their job? I haven't seen any evidnce the house crew didn't follow their regular procedure. The headliners were set up and sound checked. Job done. The openers then have to take what's left, make the best of it and STFU.

SOP
"He finally appears 2 hours past our soundcheck time and tells us that there is no room for our stuff and that the headliner's gear can't be moved."

Is being on time not part of the job?

Plus: Is the rider of the supportband not part of the contract? And can be easily broken?
Old 1 week ago
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
How did they not do their job? I haven't seen any evidnce the house crew didn't follow their regular procedure. The headliners were set up and sound checked. Job done. The openers then have to take what's left, make the best of it and STFU.

SOP
This is especially true when the band’s management and production crew are lightweight/inexperienced. This is the kind of right-of-passage experience the band and their crew will have to suck up until they learn how to fend for themselves.

There are experienced tour, road and production managers who get hired to protect the bad from this kind of thing.
Old 1 week ago
  #68
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Wyllys's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderboy View Post
"He finally appears 2 hours past our soundcheck time and tells us that there is no room for our stuff and that the headliner's gear can't be moved."

Is being on time not part of the job?
"He" is not the crew. The crew had done the job of getting the headliner set up and sound checked. Job done. Support act simply has to wait until after the scheduled supper break. When the house manager has to be called to deal with something, they are generally not happy as their job at that point is to explain in no uncertain terms to the person making a stink about paperwork, communications and "our sound check" that it is what it is and to get over it.

If you don't recognize the scenario, I suspect you haven't done much work at that level.

Quote:
Plus: Is the rider of the supportband not part of the contract? And can be easily broken?
What part of a rider are you talking about?
Old 1 week ago
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderboy View Post
"He finally appears 2 hours past our soundcheck time and tells us that there is no room for our stuff and that the headliner's gear can't be moved."

Is being on time not part of the job?

Plus: Is the rider of the supportband not part of the contract? And can be easily broken?
Some people will treat you the way they think you deserve to be treated and do whatever they think they can get away with...the story about the guitar player is a prime example.

Who did he advance the gig with, and how come the stage manager was not a part of that? Why did they wait for two hours and not call someone...why did they not call up the production and raise the alarm after 15 minutes, did they even have a number for the production or the person he advanced the gig with? It would be interesting to hear the local crew’s version of events and to know how it was resolved.

The last time I saw a headliner not wanting to move any of their gear, they were obliged to opened the show, the opener was ready to go back to the hotel and get an early night...they were paid, their contract and advance were rock solid.

Last edited by Samc; 1 week ago at 02:16 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
"He" is not the crew. The crew had done the job of getting the headliner set up and sound checked. Job done. Support act simply has to wait until after the scheduled supper break. When the house manager has to be called to deal with something, they are generally not happy as their job at that point is to explain in no uncertain terms to the person making a stink about paperwork, communications and "our sound check" that it is what it is and to get over it.
I don´t know how you define crew. For me everyone on a fix payroll of a club is part of the crew.

It is mentioned that the gig was advanced thoroughly.
And you, talking here so LOUD about professionalism semm to give a **** about all that and blame the "victim"?
After so much talking about being professional, trying to get the job done good for everyone?
Whoa! This is mindblowingly shizophrenic.

Edit: and asking about what contract (yes, that was not mentioned in original post) and on the other hand saying somethin along the lines of "work at that level". Well, I know enough that on THAT LEVEL normally contracts are involved...including a rider.
Old 1 week ago
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderboy View Post
It is mentioned that the gig was advanced thoroughly.
Not with the right person(s) apparently.
Old 1 week ago
  #72
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One time when I was younger, the opening act was sound checking and I walked onto the stage and pushed the signer away from the mic, when he started talking I turned around and said I'd kick his ass if he said one word....

3 days later I was in rehab and I've been the nicest guy you'd want to meet backstage ever since
Old 1 week ago
  #73
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Wyllys's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by terrible.dee View Post
One time when I was younger, the opening act was sound checking and I walked onto the stage and pushed the signer away from the mic, when he started talking I turned around and said I'd kick his ass if he said one word....

3 days later I was in rehab and I've been the nicest guy you'd want to meet backstage ever since
Now THAT'S funny! Obviously sarcasm of the first rank.

Edit:

Typically, the house manager only gets called to the stage when things between the crew and the band have broken down. They really don't like to have to come out and clean up the mess, so arguing with them is sort of like arguing with a cop who stops you on the street. Nothing good is going to happen.
Old 1 week ago
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
Typically, the house manager only gets called to the stage when things between the crew and the band have broken down. They really don't like to have to come out and clean up the mess, so arguing with them is sort of like arguing with a cop who stops you on the street. Nothing good is going to happen.
Depends on the band, sometimes the promoter and venue manager are waiting to welcome you. Typically if the band is earning over $30,000 per gig or if the artist is a jazz star things are ALWAYS smooth...that’s my experience anyway.
Old 1 week ago
  #75
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Wyllys's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Depends on the band, sometimes the promoter and venue manager are waiting to welcome you. Typically if the band is earning over $30,000 per gig or if the artist is a jazz star things are ALWAYS smooth...that’s my experience anyway.
It may also depend on how the house is staffed. One high-end concert venue where I often worked doing live radio remote broadcasts switched from employing the crew in-house to contracting it out. Both situations were under the union, but the service and attitude was night and day.

The in-house crew were always cheerful, accomodating and helpful while trying to work with the contracted firm was like dental work with no anasthetic. The in-house crew would have splits waiting for me when I got there and had no problem with my adding home-runs as necessary. The contracted outfit not only did not want to do splits but tried to insist I use one stereo mic at the rear of the hall, not even willing to give me feeds from the flown DPA house recording system.

You meet all kinds...
Old 1 week ago
  #76
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I can't remember where I read this, could've been here, but someone described one of the most clever and funny engineered solutions to bad band (especially singer) behavior:

It was a real "suck" button.

Pressing this 'suck' buttton engaged a mild pitch shifter in line with the musician's vocal channel/in-ear monitor mix. Ha!
Old 1 week ago
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brew View Post
I can't remember where I read this, could've been here, but someone described one of the most clever and funny engineered solutions to bad band (especially singer) behavior:

It was a real "suck" button.

Pressing this 'suck' buttton engaged a mild pitch shifter in line with the musician's vocal channel/in-ear monitor mix. Ha!
Things like this can only happen when bands don’t have their own (sound) crew and good management...as I said before when bands above a certain level or bands with serious and professional crew walk into almost any venue they are treated with respect.
Old 1 week ago
  #78
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by brew View Post
Pressing this 'suck' buttton engaged a mild pitch shifter in line with the musician's vocal channel/in-ear monitor mix. Ha!
Oh on that note I once had a drummer giving me all kinds of harassment for a whole night so towards the end of the night I sent his delayed his kick through his drum monitor by about 0.1 seconds. It really screwed his timing up but in between songs when he insisted that there was something going on I just muted the delay. Band were convinced it was him going wrong.

Standing by for Samc to tell me how unprofessional this was.
Old 1 week ago
  #79
S21
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That was really unprofessional. Great rehersal gag when it doesn't matter. When it matters, you could cost someone their job. You or your employer could be sued for significant damages.
Old 1 week ago
  #80
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Wyllys's Avatar
 

There have been a disturbing number of posts, albeit from a just a few folks who seem to fit the thread title to a "T", citing adversarial relationships with bands, musicians and venue staff. Mention has also been made of just how difficult things can become when someone with whom you have to work shirks their responsibility. I would suggest (though it seems obvious) that any retaliatoty actions from behind the mixing desk to "get even" with someone on stage or to "win" are irresponsible.

When you're charged with mixing a show you are responsible for doing your best for the audience, the promoter, the band and all concerned. It's not about "winning", putting someone in their place or pointing out someones weaknesses. It's about doing your job in a responsible manner.

Music (as far as I know) is not MMA.

https://youtu.be/JmcA9LIIXWw

Last edited by Wyllys; 1 week ago at 09:58 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #81
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by S21 View Post
That was really unprofessional. Great rehersal gag when it doesn't matter. When it matters, you could cost someone their job. You or your employer could be sued for significant damages.
Samc will be really disappointed that you got in before him.

The fact that you think that a local band playing in a room above a pub is going to sue the pub for 'significant damages' because the drummer swears to god that he was playing on time and the monitor wasn't, on the other hand, is pretty funny.
Old 1 week ago
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by de003 View Post
Standing by for Samc to tell me how unprofessional this was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by de003 View Post
Samc will be really disappointed that you got in before him.
Get a pet, a hobby, a life, a friend, get professional help...this cannot be healthy.
Old 1 week ago
  #83
Gear Head
Quote:
Originally Posted by de003 View Post
Oh on that note I once had a drummer giving me all kinds of harassment for a whole night so towards the end of the night I sent his delayed his kick through his drum monitor by about 0.1 seconds. It really screwed his timing up but in between songs when he insisted that there was something going on I just muted the delay. Band were convinced it was him going wrong.

Standing by for Samc to tell me how unprofessional this was.
I'm just a hobby band guy running his own sound. I drop by here to try and learn a few things, and when I'm bored at work I read other stuff, too. Like this thread. Appalling behavior, de003. Call it unprofessional, call it childish, call it what you want, it really stinks.
Old 1 week ago
  #84
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by gfa916 View Post
I'm just a hobby band guy running his own sound. I drop by here to try and learn a few things, and when I'm bored at work I read other stuff, too. Like this thread. Appalling behavior, de003. Call it unprofessional, call it childish, call it what you want, it really stinks.
Yes I agree.

Did you read any of what I wrote before you got outraged?

The point I was making from the start is that I myself have been the culprit of being a 'grumpy jerk' in such occasions. Long time ago, things are different now.
Old 6 days ago
  #85
Old 6 days ago
  #86
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Old 6 days ago
  #87
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Old 6 days ago
  #88
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bambamboom's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
Welcome to the real world and MusBiz 101. Union houses are what they are and when you know how they work, you just work it to your best advantage.
Ummmmm....I've encountered many hundreds of union venues in my lifetime. I know what to expect and usually have good experiences. There is a good reason why I remember this one.

We had a contract... I didn't push that too hard as it was clear that that was just going to escalate things. In hindsight maybe I should have just thrown a huge fit (it seems to work for some people) and threatened breach of contract etc.

We had been on radio that day to promote the show and the latest single.
The "headliner" was not billed as such in the promo materials, we were not just some last minute addition to the show. Remember, I talked to Mr Grumpypants stage manager twice before and he assured me that all would be great. Maybe his dog died that day or something.....
The tickets for this show were not cheap, I cant recall exactly but at least $50 a seat. There were a ton of complaints about the sound after the event, no surprise I guess. It's a shame since it was a beautiful venue.

At least we got paid.
Old 6 days ago
  #89
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Wyllys's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamboom View Post
At least we got paid.
That's the bottom line.

As to having talked to him twice, my experience is if it ain't in writing (even an e-mail will do) it still lingers in the "he said/I said" realm.

Thanks for the clarification.
Old 6 days ago
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamboom View Post
We had a contract... I didn't push that too hard as it was clear that that was just going to escalate things. In hindsight maybe I should have just thrown a huge fit (it seems to work for some people) and threatened breach of contract etc.
What is your job title? What's the point of a rider/contract if you're not going to defend it? What's the point if you're just going to surrender and do what somebody else dictates?

And no, you don't need to throw a fit to get people to respect your contract/rider, by waiting outside for two hours without calling the production you sent the wrong message to the local crew...

Quote:
The "headliner" was not billed as such in the promo materials, we were not just some last minute addition to the show. Remember, I talked to Mr Grumpypants stage manager twice before and he assured me that all would be great. Maybe his dog died that day or something.....
I thought you said the person you talked to was not there...maybe he behaved this way because he knew he could get away with it...

Quote:
The tickets for this show were not cheap, I cant recall exactly but at least $50 a seat. There were a ton of complaints about the sound after the event, no surprise I guess. It's a shame since it was a beautiful venue.

At least we got paid.
You got paid, but please remember that the band/you didn't make a good impression so maybe the band will not be booked again because they didn't sound good this time and the audience paid a lot of money to see them.
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