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Grumpy Jerks....... Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 4th January 2019
  #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamboom View Post
Yikes. Really? Absolutely it is advisable to bring your own sound person, but not every band (even full time touring acts) can afford to bring a sound person to every show, let alone one for FOH and another for Monitors.

IMHO it is not unreasonable to expect some level of professionalism from the house crew.
Of course the house crew should always be professional...but a full time touring band that does not bring a technician when they gig deserve any mishap that befall them as a result of that very misguided decision.

How can a full time, professional touring band not “afford” a sound person? Are they able to buy instruments and other necessary gear and equipment?

No sympathy...
Old 4th January 2019
  #272
Again, really? No sympathy?

It's a far cry between the cost of instruments vs an annual salary for 1 or more sound persons and their related expenses. Salaries are almost always the largest business expense, usually by a very large margin.

I could off the top of my head list a huge number of touring bands (not A listers obviously) where this is exactly the case. Many of them are barely earning a reasonable living wage, and some are basically living in poverty. Splitting the show income 1 or 2 more ways while increasing travel expenses can sometimes be the difference between sustainability or not.

Sure, it's far from ideal, but it is a common reality.
Old 5th January 2019
  #273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamboom View Post
Again, really? No sympathy?

It's a far cry between the cost of instruments vs an annual salary for 1 or more sound persons and their related expenses. Salaries are almost always the largest business expense, usually by a very large margin.

I could off the top of my head list a huge number of touring bands (not A listers obviously) where this is exactly the case. Many of them are barely earning a reasonable living wage, and some are basically living in poverty. Splitting the show income 1 or 2 more ways while increasing travel expenses can sometimes be the difference between sustainability or not.

Sure, it's far from ideal, but it is a common reality.
Almost no technician gets paid an “annual” salary or an equal split with the band, most sound people get paid per gig when gigging, and a weekly salary when they’re on tour. Many bands do not need to gig/tour with more than one technician and in some cases, that person can be a musician...the point is to have someone taking care of the technical and production issues.

A sound tech should be considered integral and important to a band’s performance, not just an occasional expense...bands and artists who think it’s important to have a sound person will make it work, bands and artists who don’t think it’s important will find endless excuses why they can’t afford a tech. The bands that don’t think it’s important to have their own tech should be prepared for the vagaries of leaving this very important aspect of their performance up to random venue crew.

It’s blind luck when a band just shows up for a concert with a crew that knows nothing about their needs and their performance and everything works out well in my opinion, there’s a right way to do this professionally which allows a certain level of expectation, so yeah....no sympathy when you do things unprofessionally and the results reflect that.

Last edited by Samc; 5th January 2019 at 03:34 PM..
Old 5th January 2019
  #274
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Just as it would be unreasonable for a guitarist to show up for a guitar playing gig without his guitar, extra strings, a tuner or any advance and expect the borrowed/rented guitar to be setup perfectly for him/her, so too it is very unreasonable to expect a band to show up without their own tech who knows exactly what they want and how and when they want it, and without any technical or production advance to expect the random, local crew to nail their show every night.

I bet most of the bands and artists that don’t have a tech also don’t provide a detailed rider and don’t advance their gigs...the same people who always blame local crew and accuse them of not being professional when their ill prepared gigs don’t go as imagined. These are the same bands that expect to show up at multi band gigs and festivals and expect to get personalized service from the local crew...go figure.
Old 18th January 2019
  #275
You're making a lot of assumptions.

And splitting hairs - of course I know most techs aren't on salary. The point is if you play a lot of shows (most I ever did in a band in a year was 187 not including travel days), that's pretty much full time. And that year I could have made more money working a 9-5 minimum wage job.

If I use that as an example.... 4 people in the band. 4 seater cargo van.
Adding a sound tech means a different vehicle, an extra hotel room, plus 20% pay cut for the 4 people who are already making less than minimum wage.

I understand your position, and on the surface it is sensible. Nobody thinks having your own tech is a bad idea if you can afford one.

I am just trying to illustrate that situations vary and like most things in life, this is not a black or white thing. Before making judgments about whoever the band of the day happens to be, maybe stop and consider what their circumstances could be.
Old 18th January 2019
  #276
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamboom View Post
You're making a lot of assumptions.

And splitting hairs - of course I know most techs aren't on salary. The point is if you play a lot of shows (most I ever did in a band in a year was 187 not including travel days), that's pretty much full time. And that year I could have made more money working a 9-5 minimum wage job.

If I use that as an example.... 4 people in the band. 4 seater cargo van.
Adding a sound tech means a different vehicle, an extra hotel room, plus 20% pay cut for the 4 people who are already making less than minimum wage.

I understand your position, and on the surface it is sensible. Nobody thinks having your own tech is a bad idea if you can afford one.

I am just trying to illustrate that situations vary and like most things in life, this is not a black or white thing. Before making judgments about whoever the band of the day happens to be, maybe stop and consider what their circumstances could be.
How is it “making assumptions” and “splitting hairs” if it’s sensible and who said it was just black or white pray tell?

The reason(s) why are irrelivant, but when you decide to go on tour without any advance prep or without a tech, that’s a choice you make, and every choice comes with consequences. You can’t seriously operate like this and expect to get greatness every time, and you certainly shouldn’t be blaming the local crew because of the gamble you made with your career.

I’ve toured with bands that made the choice to take a massive pay cut and share hotel rooms in order to have the right production and support staff, and with bands that had me do their rider, advance their gigs and come in to mix for important gigs etc. there are ways to lessen the surprises and mistakes when you can’t take a tech to every gig, but it requires serious commitment.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #277
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamboom View Post
Adding a sound tech means a different vehicle, an extra hotel room, plus 20% pay cut for the 4 people who are already making less than minimum wage.
Sounds like an unrealistic business model. Perhaps it's really just a hobby. Nothing wrong with that but let's not equate the two.

If you are going to actually make a profit then #1 priority is it's got to be (or appear) worth the money you charge for it. Taking a chance on crap sound is not worth the risk of your music is otherwise good.

Sell merch, run a raffle, busk the queue. Others are managing it.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #278
I have a good friend who was in a touring band. They were working almost every night of the week and still could not make ends meet. Room, food and transportation were expensive and at a few stops they slept in the van just to save some money. Unless you are a medium to big artist the chances you will be able to even "break even" are slim to none. FWIW
Old 4 weeks ago
  #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shufflebeat View Post
Sounds like an unrealistic business model. Perhaps it's really just a hobby. Nothing wrong with that but let's not equate the two.

If you are going to actually make a profit then #1 priority is it's got to be (or appear) worth the money you charge for it. Taking a chance on crap sound is not worth the risk of your music is otherwise good.

Sell merch, run a raffle, busk the queue. Others are managing it.
This!

Why go on tour in the first place if you can’t make ends meet? What happens if you can’t afford a van, are you going to walk to gigs?
Old 4 weeks ago
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas W. Bethe View Post
I have a good friend who was in a touring band. They were working almost every night of the week and still could not make ends meet. Room, food and transportation were expensive and at a few stops they slept in the van just to save some money. Unless you are a medium to big artist the chances you will be able to even "break even" are slim to none. FWIW
Bands that can’t make ends meet have no business going on tour in the first place...who goes into business knowing they are going to go bankrupt? Not everybody is swimming in money, but this is not the reality I generally see when I’m on the road.

The real reason bands that tour don’t carry a sound tech with them is because they don’t think it’s really important to have one. They can just show up at a gig and the local crew will manage and when that gamble doesn’t work for them it’s the sound crew’s fault...no sympathy.

On the other hand, bands that are serious consider the sound tech an integral part of their production.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #281
Lives for gear
Most of the bands I like and love use their vacation and all their money to go on tour and make no living from music.

With this in mind I rather enjoy seeing thosevands (maybe with not perfect sound) than not seeing them at all.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #282
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NEXUS-6's Avatar
 

Attacked by sound guy..LOL I witnessed this at the show.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #283
Here for the gear
 

House sound

I might be one of those grumpy old guys. I run a small concert series that generally only provides 6 or 7 shows a season.

We have established a policy that essentially states we won't hire any performer bringing in their own sound engineer.
If the artist doesn't want the gig there is no shortage of others who do and our performers include many with Grammy and JUNO awards and others with gold and platinum records.

Here is the rationale for our policy regarding no band sound techs for our shows.
1 Our venue is small at 120 and our audience is a seated, listening one that also happens to be mostly over 50 years old. They don’t want it loud or with too much effect.
2 The room has very good acoustics.
3 The Front of House and all stage monitors are measured and set to a flat response using SMAART prior to every show ( shown in our offer form)
4 I run an SPL metre (Canadian) during every event to ensure ear fatigue doesn’t lead to inappropriate volume levels.
5 We have presented more than 60 concerts and dozens more public events requiring sophisticated sound reinforcement set ups.
6 I serve as the sound tech. I researched the purchase of and also own the entire PA system. I have provided the PA and mixing at all the public events in this venue except for 4. Each of these 4 generated problems; some had equipment damaged and some were just mixed so poorly that audience members left. At the most recent example more than 10 percent of the audience left during the first set and intermission. Several of those were season ticket holders for my series and the others were occasional attenders of my series shows. I was apologizing to these folks when I saw them in the community for more than a week. People who attend my series shows are accustomed to a higher quality of sound and I am at the point where some of them ask if I am doing the sound before they purchase tickets for a concert. It seems that a common mixing model based on my experiences but also on shows I have seen in numerous concerts allows vocals to be lost in a sea of effects as well as to be overpowered by the instruments as sound techs embed themselves in the creation of the sonic experience. I have over 45 years of experience in providing sound reinforcement and have done sound for crowds of over 5000 people at a time ( I know that is not many compared to the audience size some of you have experienced) as well as countless theatrical productions and even more public events, music festivals and dances.
It needs to be a very special case now for me to acquiesce and allow someone else at the mixing board and place my clientele at risk. We operate with 70 percent of seats being held by season ticket holders and I want to protect that relationship.

Just my perspective.

M
Old 4 weeks ago
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkOliver View Post
I might be one of those grumpy old guys. I run a small concert series that generally only provides 6 or 7 shows a season.

We have established a policy that essentially states we won't hire any performer bringing in their own sound engineer.
If the artist doesn't want the gig there is no shortage of others who do and our performers include many with Grammy and JUNO awards and others with gold and platinum records.

Here is the rationale for our policy regarding no band sound techs for our shows.
1 Our venue is small at 120 and our audience is a seated, listening one that also happens to be mostly over 50 years old. They don’t want it loud or with too much effect.
2 The room has very good acoustics.
3 The Front of House and all stage monitors are measured and set to a flat response using SMAART prior to every show ( shown in our offer form)
4 I run an SPL metre (Canadian) during every event to ensure ear fatigue doesn’t lead to inappropriate volume levels.
5 We have presented more than 60 concerts and dozens more public events requiring sophisticated sound reinforcement set ups.
6 I serve as the sound tech. I researched the purchase of and also own the entire PA system. I have provided the PA and mixing at all the public events in this venue except for 4. Each of these 4 generated problems; some had equipment damaged and some were just mixed so poorly that audience members left. At the most recent example more than 10 percent of the audience left during the first set and intermission. Several of those were season ticket holders for my series and the others were occasional attenders of my series shows. I was apologizing to these folks when I saw them in the community for more than a week. People who attend my series shows are accustomed to a higher quality of sound and I am at the point where some of them ask if I am doing the sound before they purchase tickets for a concert. It seems that a common mixing model based on my experiences but also on shows I have seen in numerous concerts allows vocals to be lost in a sea of effects as well as to be overpowered by the instruments as sound techs embed themselves in the creation of the sonic experience. I have over 45 years of experience in providing sound reinforcement and have done sound for crowds of over 5000 people at a time ( I know that is not many compared to the audience size some of you have experienced) as well as countless theatrical productions and even more public events, music festivals and dances.
It needs to be a very special case now for me to acquiesce and allow someone else at the mixing board and place my clientele at risk. We operate with 70 percent of seats being held by season ticket holders and I want to protect that relationship.

Just my perspective.

M
This is probably the worst sound policy I’ve ever heard of in any venue anywhere in the world, and any band that agrees to this must either be really desperate or get a massive premium for agreeing to this policy. Do you also dictate how loud the musicians can play their instruments too...? It takes just one loud drummer to mess up your perfect plans and preparations.

It’s very telling that you not only own the PA but seem to be the only person who can produce a good enough mix for the audience... There is nothing exceptional or particularly unique about your venue and (I dare say about your talent or experience), so I don’t understand the special policy.

The day my agenda is more about getting props from the local audience than it is about presenting the band’s artistic vision is the day I quit.

Last edited by Samc; 4 weeks ago at 06:22 AM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #285
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkOliver View Post
I might be one of those grumpy old guys. I run a small concert series that generally only provides 6 or 7 shows a season.

We have established a policy that essentially states we won't hire any performer bringing in their own sound engineer.
If the artist doesn't want the gig there is no shortage of others who do and our performers include many with Grammy and JUNO awards and others with gold and platinum records.

Here is the rationale for our policy regarding no band sound techs for our shows.
1 Our venue is small at 120 and our audience is a seated, listening one that also happens to be mostly over 50 years old. They don’t want it loud or with too much effect.
2 The room has very good acoustics.
3 The Front of House and all stage monitors are measured and set to a flat response using SMAART prior to every show ( shown in our offer form)
4 I run an SPL metre (Canadian) during every event to ensure ear fatigue doesn’t lead to inappropriate volume levels.
5 We have presented more than 60 concerts and dozens more public events requiring sophisticated sound reinforcement set ups.
6 I serve as the sound tech. I researched the purchase of and also own the entire PA system. I have provided the PA and mixing at all the public events in this venue except for 4. Each of these 4 generated problems; some had equipment damaged and some were just mixed so poorly that audience members left. At the most recent example more than 10 percent of the audience left during the first set and intermission. Several of those were season ticket holders for my series and the others were occasional attenders of my series shows. I was apologizing to these folks when I saw them in the community for more than a week. People who attend my series shows are accustomed to a higher quality of sound and I am at the point where some of them ask if I am doing the sound before they purchase tickets for a concert. It seems that a common mixing model based on my experiences but also on shows I have seen in numerous concerts allows vocals to be lost in a sea of effects as well as to be overpowered by the instruments as sound techs embed themselves in the creation of the sonic experience. I have over 45 years of experience in providing sound reinforcement and have done sound for crowds of over 5000 people at a time ( I know that is not many compared to the audience size some of you have experienced) as well as countless theatrical productions and even more public events, music festivals and dances.
It needs to be a very special case now for me to acquiesce and allow someone else at the mixing board and place my clientele at risk. We operate with 70 percent of seats being held by season ticket holders and I want to protect that relationship.

Just my perspective.

M
Sounds like a fantastic setup and a good system, but only in a very few circumstances. You must know, however, that you are the exception, not the rule.

So if a great band turns up and has a sound tech who obviously knows their business - and is a dynamic element within the performance (i.e. knows the songs and mixes creatively rather than just building the sound and probem solving - something I realise not everyone is comfortable with), would you still step in and insist things are done your (plural) way or is that just not an appropriate act for the venue?

Music comes from people, not from corporate bodies. Where I come from it is expected that everyone makes music, from the guy in the shop to the local priest. If you are going to amplify this and charge money then your own pride and respect for your own music should dictate you try to present it well. Otherwise you're asking other people to indulge your inflated ego.

I should declare an interest at this point as I was an old punk rocker and played with no regard for the experience of the audience for years.

It was great fun though and I apologise to audiologists everywhere.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderboy View Post
Most of the bands I like and love use their vacation and all their money to go on tour and make no living from music.
In this case the band is a hobby, and there is nothing wrong with that, but expectations and considerations are very different for professional bands that need to earn their living from touring and gigging...the latter is the type of band the discussion is about.

Quote:
With this in mind I rather enjoy seeing thosevands (maybe with not perfect sound) than not seeing them at all.
The discussion is about professional bands that do not tour with a Sound technician but want to blame the local sound mixer/crew when things don't turn out how they want, or expected it would. there are very different expectations between the former and the latter, hence why professional bands usually operate differently from hobby bands.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #287
Lives for gear
The discussion is about grumpy jerks.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #288
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderboy View Post
The discussion is about grumpy jerks.
Fair point

Long may we prosper.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderboy View Post
The discussion is about grumpy jerks.
No, the thread topic is about Grumpy Jerks...this diversion is as was stated. Neither are about being in a hobby band.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #290
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
No, the thread topic is about Grumpy Jerks...this diversion is as was stated. Neither are about being in a hobby band.
Actually, now, that's a fair point as well.

Could it be that all those Grumpy Jerks actually have a point? Unfortunately only they see it and the rest of us are either too busy to be bothered or too grumpy to make the effort to see their POV.

Personally, I find it a great responsibility to be the only truly objective arbiter.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shufflebeat View Post
Actually, now, that's a fair point as well.

Could it be that all those Grumpy Jerks actually have a point? Unfortunately only they see it and the rest of us are either too busy to be bothered or too grumpy to make the effort to see their POV.

Personally, I find it a great responsibility to be the only truly objective arbiter.
I actually do believe that many of those so called Grumpy Jerks do have a point or two...some of us don't know enough to comprehend.

Showing up for a gig without a technician and no advance deserves grumpiness of the highest order, especially when the band that is not paying you expects you to satisfy their every need and want to the letter, including making them sound great when they can't play well enough to save their lives.

Yes, the same band with all kinds of whacky monitor needs and mix requests that expects you to learn their set and get the FOH and monitor mix right during the 15 minute change over or they will come on the internet and call you unprofessional and a "Grumpy Jerk". The same band that will find every excuse under the sun for not having a sound tech, and for not operating professionally.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #292
Gear Maniac
This post does make a point....

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkOliver View Post
I might be one of those grumpy old guys. I run a small concert series that generally only provides 6 or 7 shows a season.

We have established a policy that essentially states we won't hire any performer bringing in their own sound engineer.
If the artist doesn't want the gig there is no shortage of others who do and our performers include many with Grammy and JUNO awards and others with gold and platinum records.

Here is the rationale for our policy regarding no band sound techs for our shows.
1 Our venue is small at 120 and our audience is a seated, listening one that also happens to be mostly over 50 years old. They don’t want it loud or with too much effect.
2 The room has very good acoustics.
3 The Front of House and all stage monitors are measured and set to a flat response using SMAART prior to every show ( shown in our offer form)
4 I run an SPL metre (Canadian) during every event to ensure ear fatigue doesn’t lead to inappropriate volume levels.
5 We have presented more than 60 concerts and dozens more public events requiring sophisticated sound reinforcement set ups.
6 I serve as the sound tech. I researched the purchase of and also own the entire PA system. I have provided the PA and mixing at all the public events in this venue except for 4. Each of these 4 generated problems; some had equipment damaged and some were just mixed so poorly that audience members left. At the most recent example more than 10 percent of the audience left during the first set and intermission. Several of those were season ticket holders for my series and the others were occasional attenders of my series shows. I was apologizing to these folks when I saw them in the community for more than a week. People who attend my series shows are accustomed to a higher quality of sound and I am at the point where some of them ask if I am doing the sound before they purchase tickets for a concert. It seems that a common mixing model based on my experiences but also on shows I have seen in numerous concerts allows vocals to be lost in a sea of effects as well as to be overpowered by the instruments as sound techs embed themselves in the creation of the sonic experience. I have over 45 years of experience in providing sound reinforcement and have done sound for crowds of over 5000 people at a time ( I know that is not many compared to the audience size some of you have experienced) as well as countless theatrical productions and even more public events, music festivals and dances.
It needs to be a very special case now for me to acquiesce and allow someone else at the mixing board and place my clientele at risk. We operate with 70 percent of seats being held by season ticket holders and I want to protect that relationship.

Just my perspective.

M
My thoughts: the above is a well thought out scenario with a business plan that appears to be working.
The acts/musicians are most likely not "A or B list" (although some may "pop up" doing an acoustic set somewhere or other or at his show...).

The above's first statement "I run a small concert series...." says it all.
He has an an excellent business plan IMO.

I also "run" an annual series in my area. I rent the hall, book the acts, print tickets/posters, create the "social media" footprint, get a local "charitable foundation beneficiary" onboard, bring the PA/lights, mix the shows, manage the stage, hire a hand for load in/out, hire people to man the door, etc.

It's all on me.
All expenses associated with the event are my responsibility.
My next show is scheduled in March. If it snows and the gig is cancelled, I am out the production expenses.

My bottom-line (to cover the cost of putting on a show) is to sell the room at 50% capacity. Any profits above 50% goes to the charity....

OK, my (multi-band) shows are local, "small potatoes" events...but....I purposely mix the bands so that their sound is huge up to 1/2 way through the hall...why?...because some people are only there to hear "their band" (at that point, they move closer) and may want to chat (without shouting) in the rear of the hall during the other acts.

I have had guitarists on occasion approach me (after their band's set) complaining that I didn't mix them "to the back wall"..... My answer to them: "why?"

In my agreement with the bands I suggest that their "engineer" (or someone that knows their sound) join me at FOH to suggest nuances, however, I have control of the overall volume.

At times a band's sound guy has wanted to take control of my mix....usually to bring the rest of the band's volume up to a honcho guitarist's "sheets of sound". (I will let the honcho know that he's a bit too loud for the room...most listen....some ehhhh....

If a guitarist decides to overpower the band and I can't get the vocals on top - oh well... I won't risk my gear to stroke someone's ego.

I have been running these shows annually for the the past 6 years.. All have been musically and monetarily successful.

The quoted post is not from a grumpy-old-guy at all....just sayin'....
Old 4 weeks ago
  #293
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
some of us don't know enough to comprehend.

Showing up for a gig without a technician and no advance deserves grumpiness of the highest order, especially when the band that is not paying you expects you to satisfy their every need and want to the letter, including making them sound great when they can't play well enough to save their lives.
.
Nice little insult...

If you take on the assignment of a job where you mix a band you don't know and that has not advanced you and you are grumpy to the extreme you are extremely unprofessional.
Better not take those jobs.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #294
Lives for gear
 
norfolk martin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post

Yes, the same band with all kinds of whacky monitor needs and mix requests that expects you to learn their set and get the FOH and monitor mix right during the 15 minute change over or they will come on the internet and call you unprofessional and a "Grumpy Jerk". The same band that will find every excuse under the sun for not having a sound tech, and for not operating professionally.
you reminded me of an incident about 30 years ago running sound for a group of local 20 somethings who had just been selected ( because of family connections) to go on tour opening for a big pop act. They through they had "made it," although they were still the same local band I'd run sound for before.

They had played this club several times and knew that it was tiny and only had a single monitor mix. I also explained this carefully before they started their sound check. I could tell immediately that this was going to be one of these nights.

It was clear that each member of the band felt that the single monitor mix should favor their vocal Worse, they had three guys who wanted to sing lead (only one should have been) and they wanted the vocal and monitor mix re-balanced between lead and back-ups every time they changed vocalist. I didn't know their set, or when the changes would come.

Worse, the guitarist thought himself as something of an expert, and was the type who likes to give his opinion on the sound in the room based on what he was hearing on stage, and liked to do it over the PA between songs!

The show went like this:

Song:
Discussion by guitarist over PA about the monitor mix
Song:
Discussion by guitarist over PA about how he is hearing too much in the "800Hz region" and I need to "change the PA EQ."
Song:
Request to stop and re-balance the monitors. Every time I increase one person's vocal, the others want theirs increased. Bassist and guitarist get into heated arguments about who is too loud in the monitors.
Song:
Lead singer apologized to audience, "but its just impossible for us to work under these conditions"
Song:
The band's "road manager" comes up and tells me I'm "upsetting the band" and that he will take over. I am annoyed, so I let him
Two songs punctuated by blasts of feedback. Guitarist leaves stage and spends five minutes gesturing at the board and the "road manager." Then comes over and asks me "why I am letting that jerk run sound.' I tell him I will return if the road manger goes back to his seat and stays there.
Song:
Lead vocalist produces a AN ACCORDION with a pickup that no-one mentioned in sound check . Seems confused that it does not seem to be amplified. . . . .

And so on. Some things just make ya grumpy.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #295
Gear Guru
I live to insult people on a grumpy jerks thread..... Irony abounds!
Old 4 weeks ago
  #296
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tenderboy View Post
Nice little insult...
Who am I insulting pray tell? If your sole reason for being here was not to dispute everything I say you would be agreeing with this.

Quote:
If you take on the assignment of a job where you mix a band you don't know and that has not advanced you and you are grumpy to the extreme you are extremely unprofessional.
Better not take those jobs.
I don't...when I take on a job I intend to do the absolute, very best I can for the band I'm mixing, regardless of who they are and the size of the audience. I do not want to waste that time and energy on a band that didn't even take the time to prepare for their gig properly in the first place...I'd rather work with a group of serious hobbyist.

Last edited by Samc; 4 weeks ago at 11:27 PM..
Old 4 weeks ago
  #297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
I also "run" an annual series in my area. I rent the hall, book the acts, print tickets/posters, create the "social media" footprint, get a local "charitable foundation beneficiary" onboard, bring the PA/lights, mix the shows, manage the stage, hire a hand for load in/out, hire people to man the door, etc.

It's all on me.
when the head-cook and bottle-washer guy who decides and does everything and likes to proudly declare that "its all on me", tells you he's the only person he trusts to mix the show right, you know it's about someone's ego....his own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
If a guitarist decides to overpower the band and I can't get the vocals on top - oh well... I won't risk my gear to stroke someone's ego.
Maybe...just maybe, that loud guitar in that part of that song is just what the band wanted, but you in your infinite wisdom turned it down so as not to "risk you gear to stroke someone's ego".
Old 4 weeks ago
  #298
Gear Maniac
I am sure that this was based on mis-interpretation..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
when the head-cook and bottle-washer guy who decides and does everything and likes to proudly declare that "its all on me", tells you he's the only person he trusts to mix the show right, you know it's about someone's ego....his own.

Maybe...just maybe, that loud guitar in that part of that song is just what the band wanted, but you in your infinite wisdom turned it down so as not to "risk you gear to stroke someone's ego".
...sounds like someone may have a chip on his shoulder....

The point that I was trying to make (albeit a bit "wordy") was the fact that if my way of mixing my shows (plus the person who's post I referenced) keeps the hall filled time and time again, I will continue to do so...as my formula works for me - period.

If I start "cranking bands" rock concert loud to the back wall (yes, to stroke some egos) I run-the-risk of losing those attendees that come to my shows time and time again to support the associated charities.

If it works - don't fix it!

BTW: Most of time the requests to "turn the guitar up" comes from said person's parents that can't hear their kid. I get that.

I have been hired (by people that have attended one of my shows) to provide the PA/rig for similar events in other towns as they seem to like what I do.
At those events I bring plenty-of-rig and my earplugs.
If the organizer wants it loud, I've got the stones to do it....but it's not my show - I get payed regardless.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #299
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
...sounds like someone may have a chip on his shoulder....
How do you figure that...strong opinions yes, but a chip, no, don't care enough.

Quote:
The point that I was trying to make (albeit a bit "wordy") was the fact that if my way of mixing my shows (plus the person who's post I referenced) keeps the hall filled time and time again, I will continue to do so...as my formula works for me - period.
Yes, it's 'your' show and if 'your' formula works you should stick with it by all means. I'm willing to bet that in both cases every band sounds the same and the bands have little to no say in how their shows are mixed...must be great.

Quote:
If I start "cranking bands" rock concert loud to the back wall (yes, to stroke some egos) I run-the-risk of losing those attendees that come to my shows time and time again to support the associated charities.
Who said or even implied that you should be doing those things pray tell?

Quote:
If it works - don't fix it!
Especially when your ego gets stroked in the process...because of course they come to hear you mix...
Old 4 weeks ago
  #300
Gear Maniac
You must be confused...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
How do you figure that...strong opinions yes, but a chip, no, don't care enough.


Yes, it's 'your' show and if 'your' formula works you should stick with it by all means. I'm willing to bet that in both cases every band sounds the same and the bands have little to no say in how their shows are mixed...must be great.


Who said or even implied that you should be doing those things pray tell?


Especially when your ego gets stroked in the process...because of course they come to hear you mix...

The people come to hear the bands....not necessarily my mix.
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