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Improving our live sound with our current PA
Old 14th July 2017
  #1
Here for the gear
 

Thread Starter
Improving our live sound with our current PA

Hello

We're a 80s band that have been playing together for some years. Back in the days we purchased a big PA (for us atleast) to be able to play in larger avenues after recommendations from different people that works with live sound.

Our PA:
2x Martin Audio W8
2x Martin Audio W8S

2x Tannoy TDX1 Digital System Controller

2x Crown CTs 3000
1x LAB.GRUPPEN LAB4000
1x LAB.GRUPPEN FP7000

Monitors:
1x LAB.GRUPPEN LAB2000c
4x Marin Audio LE-350A

Mixer:
Soundcraft Si Expression 3

We haven't been tinkering too much with the PA, the adjustments we've done to the sound has been to the indidual instruments using the 3-band EQ on the mixer.

After using the PA for some years, these are the issues we currently have:
1. Our synth sounds hard (especially the piano sounds). We have a Roland Jupiter 80, but just this month we bought two VSTs (Omnisphere and Hans Zimmer piano) and they have the same tendencies.
2. Some lack in the lows (If we want that punch from the bass-drum I feel we need to boost it a lot so we often opt to a middle way).
3. Lack of crispiness in the highs.

Our experience with live sound:
At home we have 2x Munro Acoustics sE Electronics The Medium EGG 150 System which we used when we decided to buy the VSTs. The VSTs sounded great with the EGGs compared to the sounds from our Jupiter-80 (even though the EGGs are lacking some lows), so we will with time build a computer and only use the synths as midi controllers for to use the VSTs from a computer. Also we've been to concerts where the bands sound amazing (playing for 500-30.000 people), but most of them are national or international artists (so I guess they have access to great gear and great sound engineers).

In the later years we've worked with 5-6 sound engineers, but we've always ended up doing the sounds ourselves as they have been below par.For instance we ended up giving our two guitarists each a Voodoo Lab Amp switcher. Usually the output from the guitar goes into the switcher and you have four selectors to send the guitar signal to one of four different connected amps. Instead, we connect the guitar to the amp, and take the DI-signal from the preamp of the amps and feed it into the Amp Switcher, and then run four jacks into four different tracks in the mixer where each track is panned (to the sides or center) and volumes adjusted differently. This is so that when one guitar switches from comp (panned to one side) to solo (center with higher volume), the other one switches from comp (panned to other side) to a stereo panned track with higher volume to compensate for the other guitar dissapering from the comp and keep the balance. Audiences and some semi-professionals have taken note of our well-balanced live sound.

Maybe we are a bit perfectionistic, but we know the sound we want is possible (as we've heard great bands with great sound live before), though we don't know if it's possible with our current PA. We are new to the idea of configuring a PA and that's why I come to you. Can our issues be solved? The problem here is that we don't know what we don't know so it's hard to look for information about our issues.

Please keep you answers simplistic enough so we understand, we haven't learned all the jargon/slang yet.
Old 14th July 2017
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

I have to be honest with you and say your post rings some alarm bells for me.

All the engineers have been sub par? How much have you been paying?

Frankly a Martin W8 system is a pretty decent PA for a band to have. There are fairly-major touring venues around the world still using Martin W8 systems who do not have any real issues with it. Likewise, the Expression 3 is not a terrible piece of kit and shouldn't be too detrimental to your sound.

My questions would be...
1) Do you actually know what you want or are you just going 'nope don't like it' and blaming the PA / engineer etc.
2) Do your input sources actually sound the way you want them to? What are you referencing your sounds on?

I don't want to sound mean. The fact is that W8/W8S is a pretty transparent rig, and Expression 3 is a fairly transparent desk, and you shouldn't be suffering any major detriment with either.

One thing that does spring up to me is that the TDX-1 is not something you'd normally see in front of a Martin system. Are you actually using it with W8/W8S presets or just dialling in the crossover manually? I would probably recommend at least that you upgrade to a crossover designed to run that system, with Martin presets. A Martin MX5 would do, otherwise a DX1; there are also presets available for the XTAs and maybe BSS.

Honestly I don't think you need to replace your PA, Martin W8/W8S is one of those systems that nobody asks for anymore, but everyone agrees "if it doesn't sound how you want it to sound, it's probably not the system".
Old 14th July 2017
  #3
Lives for gear
I don't have experience with the equipment you are using, and so can't respond to your situation, but... Congratulations on a well-written post with specific brand and model references. My only confusion came from reading that you are using a "four amp" switch box. I read "amp" as amperes, and got off into a mental ditch wondering why two guitar players needed AC power switch boxes. My "amps mean amplifiers to guitar players" moment came while I was writing this.
Anyway, good post and good luck! I hope your interesting situation gets some expert attention.
Old 14th July 2017
  #4
Here for the gear
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by de003 View Post
I have to be honest with you and say your post rings some alarm bells for me.

All the engineers have been sub par? How much have you been paying?

Frankly a Martin W8 system is a pretty decent PA for a band to have. There are fairly-major touring venues around the world still using Martin W8 systems who do not have any real issues with it. Likewise, the Expression 3 is not a terrible piece of kit and shouldn't be too detrimental to your sound.

My questions would be...
1) Do you actually know what you want or are you just going 'nope don't like it' and blaming the PA / engineer etc.
2) Do your input sources actually sound the way you want them to? What are you referencing your sounds on?

I don't want to sound mean. The fact is that W8/W8S is a pretty transparent rig, and Expression 3 is a fairly transparent desk, and you shouldn't be suffering any major detriment with either.

One thing that does spring up to me is that the TDX-1 is not something you'd normally see in front of a Martin system. Are you actually using it with W8/W8S presets or just dialling in the crossover manually? I would probably recommend at least that you upgrade to a crossover designed to run that system, with Martin presets. A Martin MX5 would do, otherwise a DX1; there are also presets available for the XTAs and maybe BSS.

Honestly I don't think you need to replace your PA, Martin W8/W8S is one of those systems that nobody asks for anymore, but everyone agrees "if it doesn't sound how you want it to sound, it's probably not the system".
Nothing would make me happier than knowing that we should be able to get great sound from our current equipment, and that our inexperience or bad luck with sound engineers is the main problem.

The sound engineers we've hired has had different tendensies. One turned up the PA so loud that audience started to leave the venue because it was just awfully loud and another found out that he forgot to turn on the amps for our W8S until our last set. Another one made our bass player sound more like a funk-guitar with no lows at all.

We are only blaming our selves for not having started earlier to learn about getting the sound we want. This is an attempt for experienced people to point out what our issues could be so we will be able to work on solving them in the best way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushman View Post
I don't have experience with the equipment you are using, and so can't respond to your situation, but... Congratulations on a well-written post with specific brand and model references. My only confusion came from reading that you are using a "four amp" switch box. I read "amp" as amperes, and got off into a mental ditch wondering why two guitar players needed AC power switch boxes. My "amps mean amplifiers to guitar players" moment came while I was writing this.
Anyway, good post and good luck! I hope your interesting situation gets some expert attention.
Thanks for your reply, I've edited the post hopefully to clear up the confusion.
Old 14th July 2017
  #5
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mojo filters's Avatar
 

You have a really nice PA!

It's potentially very powerful and high quality if setup correctly, yet doesn't demand a proprietary rig of bespoke amps+processing, as is the norm with most modern rigs of that calibre - hence you're at an advantage compared with equivalent kit from the likes of d&b, L-Acoustics etc.

On the other hand your Tannoy DSP is not what I'd expect to find away from Tannoy speakers. Even then their nice install boxes are typically driven via Lakes, or Lab.gruppen amps with processing on board.

You seem to have had some unfortunate bad luck in endeavouring to engage with FOH techs. However since your reference point appears to be the stage, I wonder how best placed you are to evaluate folks employed for that kind of work?

I think you need someone with the expertise to align a system via Smaart (or similar ), as it shouldn't be hard for even the most inexperienced hack to get you sounding ok via that nice Martin PA, if set up correctly.

I'd perhaps consider upgrading your DSP to something more befitting, for example old Lake(s) capable of running 4 way in stereo are an obvious choice to buy used, making the most of your existing amps.

I've no idea of the value of your Tannoy processor, but if needs be you could hold on to it as a front end to seperate a 3 way xo for your W8 tops, from the high and low pass filters plus delay needed for your subs - if you have to use two stages of DSP.

Ideally a Martin processor works best, but those are sturdy boxes and most of which I've worked (enjoyably) with were processed by a 3rd party device - normally something decent from common producers of popular professional processing such as BSS or XTA, plus I think the old dbx 480 works well too, and since you have a 4 way system - better to employ a 4 way DSP, providing one simple stage of processing and allowing you to sell on your nice Tannoy DSP (which if in line with other products from Tannoy, Lab.gruppen etc pre the MG acquisition, is likely to be a high quality processor and in demand, in the eventuality it's not the best DSP for your specific rig).

I suspect a properly aligned system will make any FOH tech's job easier. Whether you can hear the tangible benefit's from behind the stacks on stage, is a slightly different issue.
Old 14th July 2017
  #6
Here for the gear
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo filters View Post
You have a really nice PA!

It's potentially very powerful and high quality if setup correctly, yet doesn't demand a proprietary rig of bespoke amps+processing, as is the norm with most modern rigs of that calibre - hence you're at an advantage compared with equivalent kit from the likes of d&b, L-Acoustics etc.

On the other hand your Tannoy DSP is not what I'd expect to find away from Tannoy speakers. Even then their nice install boxes are typically driven via Lakes, or Lab.gruppen amps with processing on board.

You seem to have had some unfortunate bad luck in endeavouring to engage with FOH techs. However since your reference point appears to be the stage, I wonder how best placed you are to evaluate folks employed for that kind of work?

I think you need someone with the expertise to align a system via Smaart (or similar ), as it shouldn't be hard for even the most inexperienced hack to get you sounding ok via that nice Martin PA, if set up correctly.

I'd perhaps consider upgrading your DSP to something more befitting, for example old Lake(s) capable of running 4 way in stereo are an obvious choice to buy used, making the most of your existing amps.

I've no idea of the value of your Tannoy processor, but if needs be you could hold on to it as a front end to seperate a 3 way xo for your W8 tops, from the high and low pass filters plus delay needed for your subs - if you have to use two stages of DSP.

Ideally a Martin processor works best, but those are sturdy boxes and most of which I've worked (enjoyably) with were processed by a 3rd party device - normally something decent from common producers of popular professional processing such as BSS or XTA, plus I think the old dbx 480 works well too, and since you have a 4 way system - better to employ a 4 way DSP, providing one simple stage of processing and allowing you to sell on your nice Tannoy DSP (which if in line with other products from Tannoy, Lab.gruppen etc pre the MG acquisition, is likely to be a high quality processor and in demand, in the eventuality it's not the best DSP for your specific rig).

I suspect a properly aligned system will make any FOH tech's job easier. Whether you can hear the tangible benefit's from behind the stacks on stage, is a slightly different issue.
Thank you for taking your time to answer.

Our biggest problem is that we don't know what we can expect from our PA as we don't know if any of the good sounding bands we've heard live have been using this model. And I understand your comment about us evaluating FOH techs, but I really believe that in most cases we have been able to do better sounds our selves. During soundchecks, a couple of us stand in the front of the PA (where the FOH stands) in order to listen and make appropriate adjustments so that the audience will have the best sound possible.

We had two MX5s but one of the FOH techs really stressed that they didn't go well with the rigg and it would be much better if we got a pair of Tannoy DSPs (which we did).
Old 16th July 2017
  #7
Gear Maniac
 

Where are you based? If you can get to London (UK), the Electric Ballroom has consistently good sound night after night using W8/W8S. Albeit more of it.

It sounds like you've had bad engineers. Lots of sound engineers do turn it up extremely loud... general reasons are either that they're deaf and don't want to admit it to themselves, so just turn it up; or they think it sounds better loud because they can't mix well.

The only gear you need to add IMO is a better processor. Throw away that Tannoy thing and get something which has been designed to run W8/W8S... as I and mojo filters said, Martin proprietary unit or XTA or BSS. Decent mics will help some too, I don't know what you have

One thing I will add is you need to make sure your on stage sound is perfect before working on the PA. Everyone has to remember it doesn't matter if you don't like your guitar tone or synth patch... it's all about how it interacts with the others that matter.I've met too many musicians who only think about their own tone and do not think at all about how it mixes.
Old 17th July 2017
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Dutchy15's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nheme View Post
Our biggest problem is that we don't know what we can expect from our PA as we don't know if any of the good sounding bands we've heard live have been using this model.
This is not your problem. The PA is not your problem. It probably needs to be tuned by somebody who has a good pair of ears and a SMAART rig, other than that you'll have to start at the sources and go down the chain to see where improvements are possible. In my experience the W8/W8S makes a great PA for rock 'n roll music, I think yours simply needs some tuning. Small things like microphone choice and placement have a much larger impact than buying a new PA "that you once heard a great band play through".

I recently worked at two large gigs in a park here in the Netherlands; Robbie Williams and Guns 'n Roses. Both for an audience of some 65.000 people. I had nothing to do with audio there, but I heard Robbie Williams, Biffy Clyro and Guns 'n Roses in the same location. The RW tour carries a L'acoustics K1/K2 rig and the GnR tour carries a Clair Bro's system. Biffy toured with GnR as the main support band so they also played over the Clair system.

Robbie Williams sounded great, at first I found it a bit "shouty" but both volume and spectrum balance were done very well. Biffy sounded not so great, quite aggressive and mid-forward. Guns 'n Roses was even worse, when they started it was a big 1kHz party, though it did seem to get better throughout the show.

This goes to show that the guy behind the console is so much more important than the PA, even at the highest possible level of touring. These tours even bring their own stages and generators!


Dutchy
Old 17th July 2017
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchy15 View Post
This goes to show that the guy behind the console is so much more important than the PA, even at the highest possible level of touring.
Very true...
Old 17th July 2017
  #10
Gear Maniac
 

Maybe it also proves that Clair Bros make horrible sounding PA and I have never understood why it is so popular.

Tons of sub bass, and tons of mids. The areas that normally you want to keep under control seem to be where the Clair systems excess.
Old 17th July 2017
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
Pro Sound Guy's Avatar
 

Pretty hard to make Martin Audio boxes sound bad unless you are doing something
real wrong with your processing.

Have you run some pink noise through your system and and looked at it with something?

Smaart? Analyzer?

That might be a good start.
Old 17th July 2017
  #12
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pro Sound Guy View Post
Pretty hard to make Martin Audio boxes sound bad unless you are doing something
real wrong with your processing.

Have you run some pink noise through your system and and looked at it with something?

Smaart? Analyzer?

That might be a good start.
as per usual I don't think you really understand what you're talking about here.

Pink noise? why? White noise yes. Why pink noise?

Smaart? Really?

Being a band who play functions, there's no point tuning it just the once, is there? It needs to be tuned every day. But there's realistically no scope that they're going to give it the same level of tuning as an arena touring PA... and neither do they need to, IMHO. W8/W8S is a reasonably plug-n-play system and was designed to be.
Old 17th July 2017
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by de003 View Post
It also proves that Clair Bros make horrible sounding PA and I have never understood why it is so popular.

Tons of sub bass, and tons of mids. The areas that normally you want to keep under control seem to be where the Clair systems excess.
Just curious, but did you use the Clair rig(s) you talk about? If not, how do you know it was the fault of the rig and not the operator?

I've used and heard several Clair rigs and have never come to this conclusion, I also don'y know anyone who've used their systems that hold this opinion either.
Old 17th July 2017
  #14
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Just curious, but did you use the Clair rig(s) you talk about? If not, how do you know it was the fault of the rig and not the operator?

I've used and heard several Clair rigs and have never come to this conclusion, I also don'y know anyone who've used their systems that hold this opinion either.
OK maybe you have a fair point. I was kind of being light-hearted with it too. Of course they would not hold their status in the live sound market if their gear sucked.

Maybe the thing is more that every gig I have personally heard where FOH was mixed on Clair Bros... with the exception of The Wall, has sounded fairly poo.

This has not been the case with any other brand of system.

I haven't really used Clair stuff myself but it seemed to me that some of the stuff touring through the UK... it was just way too big for the rooms it was going into. And it's always harder, IMO, to make a speaker which is too big for the room sound good, than one which is too small. With line array you can, to a point, make something too small work by using lots of it. But there is little you can do to make something too big work better.

Every time I've heard the Clair systems it's just been one of those gigs where if you don't like kick or guitar, you might as well go home.

I don't really mean any harm to Clair but I think probably their systems are just less friendly to half deaf coked up sound engineers. Things like MLA and J-series are, in my experience, quite forgiving. (Less so with K1/K2...). Perhaps it's just that Clair you need to be a bit more skilled up to begin with and then switched on for the gig.
Old 18th July 2017
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by de003 View Post
OK maybe you have a fair point. I was kind of being light-hearted with it too. Of course they would not hold their status in the live sound market if their gear sucked.

Maybe the thing is more that every gig I have personally heard where FOH was mixed on Clair Bros... with the exception of The Wall, has sounded fairly poo.
If it sounded good just the one time then it can't be the fault of the rig the other times you were not pleased. It's common sense, but you came on a public forum and accused them of making bad sounding loudspeaker systems...

Quote:
This has not been the case with any other brand of system.
So what...I bet you've only heard these rigs a few times compared to other makes.

Quote:
I haven't really used Clair stuff myself but it seemed to me that some of the stuff touring through the UK... it was just way too big for the rooms it was going into. And it's always harder, IMO, to make a speaker which is too big for the room sound good, than one which is too small. With line array you can, to a point, make something too small work by using lots of it. But there is little you can do to make something too big work better.
If the system being used is not properly specified for the job, that is the system designer's fault, not the fault of the system...

Quote:
Every time I've heard the Clair systems it's just been one of those gigs where if you don't like kick or guitar, you might as well go home.
How is that the system's fault...the system is mixing the show...?

Quote:
I don't really mean any harm to Clair but I think probably their systems are just less friendly to half deaf coked up sound engineers. Things like MLA and J-series are, in my experience, quite forgiving. (Less so with K1/K2...). Perhaps it's just that Clair you need to be a bit more skilled up to begin with and then switched on for the gig.
This is pure bull dung, you have slandered the company using with your false claims and innuendo...this is really bad form on your part.
Old 18th July 2017
  #16
Gear Maniac
 

I told you it was a light hearted comment. C'mon man, take a breath. It's a chat forum, not a formal review or anything.

I should have been more obvious in showing that I was acting in jest. I do not like the sound of Clair systems as much but it's personal taste not a reflection of my opinion on their systems.

As for the pure bull dung, I do disagree. I have mixed on a wide variety of systems and I do think that some are more forgiving than others. D&B, specifically, I find to be an incredibly forgiving system. It just seems to have some sort of magic mix glue that others don't have. I'm not stating it as a quality in D&B or a weakness in other systems though. I'm just saying, to me (and I've had others agree), it just seems to be easier to get a good mix together on a D&B.
The first systems I went out with were Funktion Res5 and Nexo Alpha. One of the big differences I found between the two systems was that the F1 seemed to be very easy to get wrong. You had to get it perfect to get it right at all. The Nexo seemed to just be a bit more amicable to sound good even if what it was being fed was not perfect. The boss described the Funktion as like having a vintage sports car and the Nexo like having a current model hot hatchback. Hot hatchback being 95% of the fun whilst being easy to look after, cheap to run, and easy to drive like a maniac. The vintage sports car being harder to drive, harder to maintain, more expensive on fuel and parts... but worth it for that extra 5% when you get it all right. I firmly believe in that, and it is not slanderous to state that one system is less friendly to coked up deaf sound engineers than others.

Don't take me too seriously man. No harm was meant.

I absolutely agree that at the end of the day, all top flight PA systems can sound amazing with the right people behind them. What separates the good sounding rigs from bad sounding rigs, is people. Whether due to spec'ing the wrong rig, or using it wrong. But maybe Clair operate in a market where people with a penchant for getting it wrong are just more common than the market that, for example, D&B occupy. I think that's plausible.
Old 18th July 2017
  #17
Lives for gear
 

I think you have a penchant for posting crap about things you know nothing about.

Guys with no name can come on this forum and post up things that are unfounded, speculative opinion about gear and the companies that make them as if they were fact.

Don't take you seriously, no harm was meant, but you continue to post up BS about the company and their products.

They make several models by the way, does your statement cover all of them, or just specific models? Which specific models are you talking about if that's the case?
Old 18th July 2017
  #18
Gear Maniac
 

Oh go away I've said what I meant and you continue to harp on about why I'm a bad person. Get a grip of yourself.
Old 18th July 2017
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by de003 View Post
Oh go away I've said what I meant and you continue to harp on about why I'm a bad person. Get a grip of yourself.
There is nothing light hearted about declaring that a product you've never used is bull****, and as long as you continue to make questionable and unsupported claims they will be challenged.

Your claim that Clair loudspeakers are more difficult to mix on compared to other systems is false. You have never used the system and therefore you're not in a position to make comparisons or make claims about its performance.

As long as the right system is specified for the gig and setup properly, it's just a question of taste, not voodoo.

You don't get to have it both ways, you either know what you're talking about or you don't...and if you don't know, you don't get to continue posting innuendo and falsehoods as if they're facts.
Old 18th July 2017
  #20
Gear Maniac
 

I observed that I have heard more bad sound on Clair Bros systems than any other systems. That is a fact. A total and complete fact.

I said, maybe this is because their systems suck. I said maybe this is because they're harder to mix on. I said maybe they're less suited to coked up deaf people.

By the virtue of the word maybe, these are not claimed as facts, are they? Or would you like me to provide a dictionary for you?
Old 18th July 2017
  #21
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Dutchy15's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by de003 View Post
as per usual I don't think you really understand what you're talking about here.

Pink noise? why? White noise yes. Why pink noise?

Smaart? Really?

YES.

REALLY.

As per usual I don't think you really understand what you're talking about here. Can you describe the difference between white and pink noise? If so, you'll answer your own question. Smaart (or any other dual FFT for that matter) is an incredibly powerful tool when it comes to system tuning. It allows for measurement of frequency spectrum, time and phase. Those three are necessary when setting cross-overs and phase-matching cabinets.


Dutchy
Old 18th July 2017
  #22
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchy15 View Post

As per usual I don't think you really understand what you're talking about here. Can you describe the difference between white and pink noise? If so, you'll answer your own question. Smaart (or any other dual FFT for that matter) is an incredibly powerful tool when it comes to system tuning. It allows for measurement of frequency spectrum, time and phase. Those three are necessary when setting cross-overs and phase-matching cabinets.
Don't me wrong, for a hire company, it makes absolute sense.

This is a function band. Playing small events, with 2 stacks of speakers.

SMAART you're looking at $400 to buy it. (Then at least twice that again for the hardware). You need to learn to use it... how much is that going to cost? Rational Acoustics quote $500 for a 2-day course.

Are you genuinely expecting a the musicians in a functions band to show up at an event, whip out the SMAART and start tuning the system in it's entirety?

This guy isn't a sound engineer. He's asking how to make his PA sound better. The answer is get a sound engineer, and he will tune it. He absolutely might tune it using SMAART or another similar platform.

But to expect musicians to start doing this stuff on their own PA... I think you are a bit wide of the mark
Old 18th July 2017
  #23
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Dutchy15's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by de003 View Post
Don't me wrong, for a hire company, it makes absolute sense.

This is a function band. Playing small events, with 2 stacks of speakers.

SMAART you're looking at $400 to buy it. (Then at least twice that again for the hardware). You need to learn to use it... how much is that going to cost? Rational Acoustics quote $500 for a 2-day course.

Are you genuinely expecting a the musicians in a functions band to show up at an event, whip out the SMAART and start tuning the system in it's entirety?

This guy isn't a sound engineer. He's asking how to make his PA sound better. The answer is get a sound engineer, and he will tune it. He absolutely might tune it using SMAART or another similar platform.

But to expect musicians to start doing this stuff on their own PA... I think you are a bit wide of the mark
I never said they should do it themselves. A professional technician is necessary for making a basic setting including correct time and phase alignment. This only has to be done once, but cannot be done by ear. An outdoor location with no reflective surfaces nearby would be ideal, but a good system engineer can do this virtually anywhere. Adapting the system to the room can however be done by ear, using the physical positioning of the speakers and tools like a graphic EQ.


Dutchy
Old 18th July 2017
  #24
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by de003 View Post
as per usual I don't think you really understand what you're talking about here.

Pink noise? why? White noise yes. Why pink noise?

Smaart? Really?

Being a band who play functions, there's no point tuning it just the once, is there? It needs to be tuned every day. But there's realistically no scope that they're going to give it the same level of tuning as an arena touring PA... and neither do they need to, IMHO. W8/W8S is a reasonably plug-n-play system and was designed to be.
Do you even know what pink noise is? It's far more useful for live sound worI than white noise, there's a reason virtually every oscillator on a desk I can think of does pink, but I can't actually think of any that do white off the top of my head.

As for smaart, some people don't trust their ears, amd thats fair enough, plus being able to use the phase and magnitude responses might be helpful diagnosing temporal issues with their crossover settings
Old 18th July 2017
  #25
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by azlan121 View Post
Do you even know what pink noise is? It's far more useful for live sound worI than white noise, there's a reason virtually every oscillator on a desk I can think of does pink, but I can't actually think of any that do white off the top of my head.
Sorry had a tardy moment and got them the wrong way around.

Anyway, for your reference... Profile and SD Series both do white noise...
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