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AKG d112 or Shure beta 52a for live kick drum
Old 20th February 2017
  #1
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AKG d112 or Shure beta 52a for live kick drum

I'm doing live shows in small spaces around Brooklyn lately and I need a sturdy kick mic.

I don't always find drummers cutting out the head.

Floor monitors tend to be close-by.

So, the mic won't be inside and feedback might be an issue.

I oftentimes have very little time to setup. So plug n play is important too.

These mics only please. Please don't respond with "neither" and then list the 5 Neumann mics I have to buy or it will sound like turd splatting in a Dutch toilet.

Last edited by Deleted User; 9th March 2017 at 12:44 AM..
Old 20th February 2017
  #2
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Wyllys's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by trashman View Post
...or it will sound like turd splatting in a Dutch toilet.
OK, that would be the B-52 then...
Old 20th February 2017
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
OK, that would be the B-52 then...
thank you

Last edited by Deleted User; 30th April 2017 at 05:13 AM..
Old 20th February 2017
  #4
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I prefer the Audix D6, but anything but a D112
Old 20th February 2017
  #5
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Wyllys's Avatar
 

Splatting. I characterize it ad a screen door slamming.

I don't own either the 52 or the 112, so I can't answer the question as asked. Didn't stop me, though, did it?

I use EV 868 and/or SM91...the original, not the Beta.
Old 20th February 2017
  #6
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Aisle 6's Avatar
I do own both of these mics and I rarely take the D112 anywhere. So Beta52 for me if those are my two choices.
Old 20th February 2017
  #7
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They are both perfectly good mics, personally I tend to use the b52 more, but that's because I happen to own one as much as anything else.

Assuming you are doing rock bands, the audix d6 might be another mic in the same sort of price bracket to think about, it has a fairly none linear frequency response, but is deisigned to be 'plug and play' for getting a scooped, clicky kick from a single mic.
Old 20th February 2017
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trashman View Post
I'm doing live shows in small spaces around Brooklyn lately and I need a sturdy kick mic.

I don't always find drummers cutting out the head.

Floor monitors tend to be close-by.

So, the mic won't be inside and feedback might be an issue.

I oftentimes have very little time to setup. So plug n play is important too.
Neither, since/if there is no hole in the head, I suggest a Sennheiser 421 or an RE20 instead. Both can be used on either the beater side or resonant head, and if there's a hole you can just stick them in there and they'll work great too.

They are sturdy, offer good feedback performance (when there is no hole) and sound very good too.
Old 20th February 2017
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trashman View Post
These mics only please. Please don't respond with neither and then list the 5 Neumann mics I have to buy or it will sound like turd splatting in a Dutch toilet.
Well, you managed 2 responses before the alternative suggestions all started - got to love people's attention span...

Suggestion added:
I'd play the easy game with your mic choice and take the B52. However, for those shows where there's a front skin without a hole, why not put up both mics if you have the channels to spare. Then, over a few gigs, you can start to develop a view on them based on the ability to A-B between them during soundcheck. If you end up without the time to listen to both, then you've lost little time in setting them both up.

While it's easy to say that the D112 gives the more modern sound and the B52 sounds more traditional, so many other factors (like the drums themselves and the room) will affect the sound. Your best indicator will be what your ears tell you for your situation.
Old 20th February 2017
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlecSp View Post
Well, you managed 2 responses before the alternative suggestions all started - got to love people's attention span...
And you win by not giving any advice at all?


My sound man uses the Audix D6 - although I have a hole in my kick.
Beta 52 is ok too, and Senn 421.
Old 20th February 2017
  #11
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I have them both, if you want more vintage sound (less EQed, more boxy sound) go for D112 if you want more modern sound (more high end, more EQed sound) go for Beta52.
Also, I've got an Audix D6 and this mike sounds the same for me on every kick drum I've ever used, very plastic to me, it is a good mike for metal bands.
Old 20th February 2017
  #12
KEL
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If both were in front of me to choose, I'd opt for the b52, but you wouldn't be able to blame a poor kick drum sound on either mic.
Old 20th February 2017
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesAudio View Post
I have them both, if you want more vintage sound (less EQed, more boxy sound) go for D112 if you want more modern sound (more high end, more EQed sound) go for Beta52.
Also, I've got an Audix D6 and this mike sounds the same for me on every kick drum I've ever used, very plastic to me, it is a good mike for metal bands.
Good assessment.
Old 20th February 2017
  #14
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As said above, you can't blame either mic for bad sound and I suspect most people would choose the 52 because it's the sound most people know.

If I had both in front of me I'd want to hear the bass drum before deciding...Otherwise it's an RE20 or a 421.
Old 21st February 2017
  #15
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Thanks for the feedback dudes

I ordered one of each and will check them out at a show next week.

I have a U5 but I'm hesitant to use it at these raucus DIY shows.

Up until now I've been using 57 and 57a. The 57a is a good mic.
Old 21st February 2017
  #16
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Was in the same dilemma recently and ended up getting the Sennheiser e602-ii.
Loving it so far, captures the meat better than the D112 or Beta52, while having a good attack but not in an obnoxious way like the D6.
Also, fairly lightweight and compact, easy to position.

Best of all, it's cheaper than all of those mics (thought about paying the extra for the e902, but couldn't find a good reason to)
Old 22nd February 2017
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Neither, since/if there is no hole in the head, I suggest a Sennheiser 421 or an RE20 instead. Both can be used on either the beater side or resonant head, and if there's a hole you can just stick them in there and they'll work great too.

They are sturdy, offer good feedback performance (when there is no hole) and sound very good too.
Yea, but they also have that goofy mic clip going on making it a PITA to get into a drum hole if you want to close mike the drum head. They also rumble more that the other mics mentioned here IME.

Yes, the D6 gives a consistent sound on all kicks. If you simply want the kick to sound good all the time, it is a good mic to use. If you actually get the sound the kick is making, you frequently find that all you are amplifying is crap and will struggle to get anything good at all to come through the PA with most drummers in typical bar bands.

If you are working with great talent, then I agree. Other mic choices will bring out the nuances of the artists kit much better than a D6.

Wouldn't it be great if every drummer in every bar band was a great artist
Old 22nd February 2017
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneEng View Post
Yea, but they also have that goofy mic clip going on making it a PITA to get into a drum hole if you want to close mike the drum head. They also rumble more that the other mics mentioned here IME.
Rumble...!?!? From microphones that are regularly used on bass drum and bass cabs both on stage and in the studio? Microphones that have been used for vocals in critical broadcast environment for decades...? If you're getting rumble from a 421 or RE20 something is either broken, or you're doing something very wrong...

Quote:
Yes, the D6 gives a consistent sound on all kicks. If you simply want the kick to sound good all the time, it is a good mic to use. If you actually get the sound the kick is making, you frequently find that all you are amplifying is crap and will struggle to get anything good at all to come through the PA with most drummers in typical bar bands.
The D6 Produces the SAME sound regardless of the bass drum it's pointed at...its a one-trick pony for people who are either too lazy or talentless to try.

Quote:
If you are working with great talent, then I agree. Other mic choices will bring out the nuances of the artists kit much better than a D6.

Wouldn't it be great if every drummer in every bar band was a great artist
So bad talent is the excuse for using a D6... Wouldn't it be great if every mixer was talented enough not to need crutches, like pre-equed microphones.
Old 22nd February 2017
  #19
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I concur the Beta52 is the better of the two options, but a D6 is preferable especially when there's no vent. Check for a sale on the Audix F6, it sounds identical and is plenty rugged, found mine for $60 at GC back in November. I already have a D6, wanted to try F6 on floor tom (and it's glorious) plus be prepared for two kick drums.
Old 22nd February 2017
  #20
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Some thoughts on the matter...

Kick drum mics tend to have a pre-EQ'd curve, for better or for worse. Generally, something with a strong built-in EQ will have fairly low sensitivity to placement, since it's imparting so much of its own character. Less-EQ'd mics will sound more like the instrument, making placement a little more critical. It's up to you which you prefer.

Here's a list of mics, in order of the difference in dB from the top-end peak to the lower-midrange before proximity effect boosts the bass.
AKG D112: 6dB
Shure Beta-52a: 10dB
EV N/D868: 10dB
Audix D6: 16dB
For comparison, Shure SM57: 9dB

Note that simply the distance from top-to-bottom isn't the whole story, but it does give you an idea of what's going on. For instance, the '57 has a gentle rise in the presence region up to 10kHz or so, whereas the Beta-52a has a 10dB peak at 4kHz.

For what it's worth, I tend to use something fairly neutral for kick drum, and I apply EQ if I want it to sound more like a particular mic. For instance, -8dB at 600Hz with a fairly low Q and +8dB high shelf at 5kHz would get it sounding quite similar to an Audix D6. You can consult the response curves and figure the rest out

Chris
Old 22nd February 2017
  #21
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Thank you for this.

You're exactly right.

And when I have 30 - 45 mins to set up it MIGHT be nice to have a dedicated kicker mic that very quickly gives that bit of "the sound" that people are used to hearing.

If it was the same room every time and I had the time, I might go a different way.

I'm looking for something that will get me "there" fast.
Old 22nd February 2017
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris661 View Post
Some thoughts on the matter...

Kick drum mics tend to have a pre-EQ'd curve, for better or for worse. Generally, something with a strong built-in EQ will have fairly low sensitivity to placement, since it's imparting so much of its own character. Less-EQ'd mics will sound more like the instrument, making placement a little more critical. It's up to you which you prefer.
two things to consider, if you choose the sound and convenience of a one-trick pony mic, you better like it all the time on everything regardless of what you're working on because you will basically have only one sound...all the time.

The other thing is, once you opt for using these microphones like a crutch...bad drummers, bad kit, not enough time etc., you won't have the knowledge and experience to use other (really good, natural sounding) microphones when you need to.
Old 22nd February 2017
  #23
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When I'm elected President, there will be no more kick drums, I promise you. They will all be rounded up and subjected to deportation...AND THE DRUMMERS WILL PAY FOR IT!!!
Old 22nd February 2017
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
two things to consider, if you choose the sound and convenience of a one-trick pony mic, you better like it all the time on everything regardless of what you're working on because you will basically have only one sound...all the time.

The other thing is, once you opt for using these microphones like a crutch...bad drummers, bad kit, not enough time etc., you won't have the knowledge and experience to use other (really good, natural sounding) microphones when you need to.
All very true.

I tend to use a fairly neutral mic and play with positioning if I can. If I can't, I have a digital desk. Dial in a couple of drastic PEQs and you've basically got a D6 anyway.

Edit - OP has just said they're looking for fast results. My vote goes to the Beta-52a (or something even more contoured) for that.

Chris
Old 22nd February 2017
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris661 View Post
All very true.

I tend to use a fairly neutral mic and play with positioning if I can. If I can't, I have a digital desk. Dial in a couple of drastic PEQs and you've basically got a D6 anyway.

Edit - OP has just said they're looking for fast results. My vote goes to the Beta-52a (or something even more contoured) for that.
Even if you use a D6 you still have to position it for best result and will the D6 or similar mic make a badly tuned bass drum or a bad drummer sound better than they are....? Don't think so.

The need to be quick with the setup does not preclude anybody from using a 'good' microphone....
Old 23rd February 2017
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyllys View Post
When I'm elected President, there will be no more kick drums, I promise you. They will all be rounded up and subjected to deportation...AND THE DRUMMERS WILL PAY FOR IT!!!
LMFAO!!!!

Had a long day at work today. I needed that laugh Wyllys. Thanks!
Old 23rd February 2017
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Even if you use a D6 you still have to position it for best result and will the D6 or similar mic make a badly tuned bass drum or a bad drummer sound better than they are....? Don't think so.

The need to be quick with the setup does not preclude anybody from using a 'good' microphone....
Most bar drummers don't have any idea how to tune a kick drum so that it sounds good through the PA.

Most people setting up sound for a bar band drummer don't want to fiddle around with perfect mic placement and figuring out how to eq the kick for "that sound".

The D6 makes a pleasing sound easily on nearly any kick drum and it isn't picky about placement making it a "good" choice for many applications.

The MD421 (which I also happen to own) was my go-to guitar cab mic because it had such great clarity and round bottom compared to an SM57. It does feedback the low end on stage if you aren't careful with it. This is particularly important when using a floor stand on a wood stage. Also you have to make sure you have the ring roll-off setup to the right position on it since it has different sounds with different setups.

The MD421 case is also very good for smashing mice that jump onto your bed in the middle of the night (no kidding I really had this happen).

I use a Sennheiser e906 now which does not feedback at all, and doesn't require a stand to mic a guitar cab with. Still got the venerable MD421 though.
Old 23rd February 2017
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris661 View Post
For what it's worth, I tend to use something fairly neutral for kick drum, and I apply EQ if I want it to sound more like a particular mic. For instance, -8dB at 600Hz with a fairly low Q and +8dB high shelf at 5kHz would get it sounding quite similar to an Audix D6. You can consult the response curves and figure the rest out
What this doesn't take into account is the low end resonance inherent to hyped kick mics like the Beta52 and D6, which results in stronger low end response and also more prolonged than the drum actually produces. I'm really only familiar enough with it from these two mics, and by comparison the Beta52 imparts its own tone to the low end, while the D6 seems to be truer to the drum's tone.

That's why I much prefer the D6 to the Beta52. Either mic can be shaped however you want, but I get sick of the same Beta52 tone from every kick. Same problem with the D112, except it's more in the midrange snap, that bouncing ball sound.

All of this is fine if you just want a good reliable sound from one kick, but I'd go mad mixing as many different drum kits as I do with mics that always sound the same.
Old 23rd February 2017
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC2SPL View Post
All of this is fine if you just want a good reliable sound from one kick, but I'd go mad mixing as many different drum kits as I do with mics that always sound the same.
Nothing like lots of different bass drums played by different drummers who are playing different styles all with the same boring sound...
Old 23rd February 2017
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneEng View Post
Most bar drummers don't have any idea how to tune a kick drum so that it sounds good through the PA.

Most people setting up sound for a bar band drummer don't want to fiddle around with perfect mic placement and figuring out how to eq the kick for "that sound".
The D6 will fix these defaults...?
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