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L'acoustic Syva
Old 2 weeks ago
  #61
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
This is getting a bit tiresome, you claimed " In the UK it's a reasonably well-known brand." I assume this is based on the fact that people you hang out with with use it. Who cares? I've never heard of it but that doesn't mean much to anyone, much like this yawn worthy back and forth.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #62
Gear Head
 

Yes please let's get back to the original program , please.

I'm actually interested to hear about real life experience with Syva.
Can you please stop that personal Bu***it ?

Mods ?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #63
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil0 View Post
This is getting a bit tiresome, you claimed " In the UK it's a reasonably well-known brand." I assume this is based on the fact that people you hang out with with use it. Who cares? I've never heard of it but that doesn't mean much to anyone, much like this yawn worthy back and forth.
No.

The fact that it's distributed, with success, by the UK's leading theatrical sales company and I gave 3 examples of major British theatres using the product, represent that in the UK K-Array is neither as poor-performing nor poor selling as Samc says it is.

Basically, my case:
- Stage LX report that it is selling well (they're selling it)
- Ambassadors Theatre Group - biggest theatre chain in the UK - installing it into their theatres (a fact cross-referenced by numerous industry publications).
- Royal Opera House - needs no introduction - using it in their main auditorium
- Personal experience using it on hires (a fact cross-referenced by numerous industry publications).

Samc's case:
- Personal experience not using it.
- Some people Samc knows apparently haven't heard of it.

That's all I'm saying. I've been aggressively shot down over my point of view and Samc's whole case, as normal, is "I'm a big special touring sound engineer so my personal experience is automatically right, and in any case just simply more valid than yours".

Sorry for crayoning the thread I just think it's a bit bulls**t really
Old 2 weeks ago
  #64
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
We all know what you're saying. You've made your point let's move on.
Old 1 week ago
  #65
While on a search for speakers for a portable rig, attended a distributor demonstration (also attended by an LAcoustics specialist), for the Syva, a fine afternoon at Fabrik, a wonderful night club location, in London, a few months ago, listening to these.

My detailed opinion is here:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/12748012-post54.html

The only real con is the rather high cost, but for some, that is not an issue.

No complaints really about the sound quality. As a system, with an appropriate number of subs, this will support very loud concerts in small venues, no issues with SPL. Flat sounding frequency response in general, it was kinda like listening to a pair of studio monitors - it highlighted (I'd say exaggerated) the differences between demo tracks very well - unlike some speakers which tar all audio with the same brush(sonic signature).

The only signature was a somewhat slightly bright and very extended high frequency(my opinion), but nothing that a bit of system eq, using the DSP features on the excellent LAcoustic external amplifiers could not tame easily IMHO.

On the low end, that was a function of how and how many subs you coupled it with. The demo gave me the benefit of listening to a combination of different number of subs with the tops/mids, from zero subs to a max of 4 center coupled subs that were available. Without subs, it should be fine for speech and non bass heavy music playback, but subs are definitely needed for any live music, to fill out that bottom end.
Old 1 week ago
  #66
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kodebode View Post
While on a search for speakers for a portable rig, attended a distributor demonstration (also attended by an LAcoustics specialist), for the Syva, a fine afternoon at Fabrik, a wonderful night club location, in London, a few months ago, listening to these.

My detailed opinion is here:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/12748012-post54.html

The only real con is the rather high cost, but for some, that is not an issue.

No complaints really about the sound quality. As a system, with an appropriate number of subs, this will support very loud concerts in small venues, no issues with SPL. Flat sounding frequency response in general, it was kinda like listening to a pair of studio monitors - it highlighted (I'd say exaggerated) the differences between demo tracks very well - unlike some speakers which tar all audio with the same brush(sonic signature).

The only signature was a somewhat slightly bright and very extended high frequency(my opinion), but nothing that a bit of system eq, using the DSP features on the excellent LAcoustic external amplifiers could not tame easily IMHO.

On the low end, that was a function of how and how many subs you coupled it with. The demo gave me the benefit of listening to a combination of different number of subs with the tops/mids, from zero subs to a max of 4 center coupled subs that were available. Without subs, it should be fine for speech and non bass heavy music playback, but subs are definitely needed for any live music, to fill out that bottom end.
Why is the cost a con...they charge what they want and if people are willing to pay or not is another thing, the only con would be trying to pass them off as line 'anything'.

Did you listen to a live band mix or to recorded music for this demo? If it was a live band were you personally able/allowed to build a mix on the system?

If it was just recorded music that was used for the demo, was it music you already knew...?

Last edited by Samc; 1 week ago at 05:20 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #67
Gear Maniac
 

I might be missing something but where did he say it was a con?
Old 1 week ago
  #68
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kodebode View Post
The only real con is the rather high cost, but for some, that is not an issue.
Hope this helps....
Old 1 week ago
  #69
Gear Maniac
 

Thread Starter
I think this is a misunderstanding. Not con as in scam but con as in pros and cons. Price can definitely be considered a con in this context.
Old 1 week ago
  #70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil0 View Post
I think this is a misunderstanding. Not con as in scam but con as in pros and cons. Price can definitely be considered a con in this context.
Thanks for your accurate understanding. Yes, this was the context in which I used the word "con" i.e. as one of the cons.
Old 1 week ago
  #71
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Hope this helps....
Oh I see

I thought you meant con like immoral
Old 1 week ago
  #72
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kodebode View Post
Thanks for your accurate understanding. Yes, this was the context in which I used the word "con" i.e. as one of the cons.
Thanks for the clarification, can you give more details about how the demo was conducted?
Old 1 week ago
  #73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Thanks for the clarification, can you give more details about how the demo was conducted?
It was a demo controlled by the conveners, with some opportunity to suggest changes to the playback repertoire and sequence of speaker comparisons, by the attendees, in the later stages of the event.

Predominantly it was playback of commercial music across a few genres as well as live speech on a Sennheiser wireless microphone. Genres I recall were :

1. Rock
2. Acoustic
3. Jazz
4. Pop including things like Get Lucky(Daft Punk)
5. Film Soundtracks
6. Acapela

All system equalisation options of which a few examples were preconfigured by the demonstrators and we could request switching between these. EQ/System setup was done on the LAcoustic Amps, controlled via an app on a laptop.

The attendees were able to request changes such as boosts and cuts to the low end/subs, varying this via gain settings of shelf eq, in increments of 1dB between +-6dB.

We also had the opportunity to compare the Syva to the LAcoustics point source speakers - between 8 inch woofer, up to about a 12 inch woofer, and these were also demonstrated with/without various combinations of their subwoofers. This aspect was informative. IN a similar manner to how 3 way tops present a more complete audio image, than 2 way tops, I really felt that the Syva went a long way to solve one of my personal concerns with smaller two way tops (typically 8 and 10 inch woofers). Sometimes 2 way tops, with subs leave an impression of a hole/disconnect in the frequency spectrum between the tops and subs, and this impression was more pronounced in this demo, when audio was played back with 2 way tops, becoming worse as the size of the woofer in the 2 way top, reduced from a 12 inch woofer to an 8 inch woofer.

I think Syva would be great for corporate events, product launches, and fashion shows placed either side of the catwalk, as the narrow baffle of the cabinets, is not as visually intrusive as with point source tops on a pole, or with line arrays. I could also imagine the speakers ingeniously placed behind acoustically transparent rectangular floor mounted display stands/banners, making them "invisible" to the audience.
Old 1 week ago
  #74
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kodebode View Post
We also had the opportunity to compare the Syva to the LAcoustics point source speakers - between 8 inch woofer, up to about a 12 inch woofer, and these were also demonstrated with/without various combinations of their subwoofers. This aspect was informative. IN a similar manner to how 3 way tops present a more complete audio image, than 2 way tops, I really felt that the Syva went a long way to solve one of my personal concerns with smaller two way tops (typically 8 and 10 inch woofers). Sometimes 2 way tops, with subs leave an impression of a hole/disconnect in the frequency spectrum between the tops and subs, and this impression was more pronounced in this demo, when audio was played back with 2 way tops, becoming worse as the size of the woofer in the 2 way top, reduced from a 12 inch woofer to an 8 inch woofer.
Is this really a 'feature' of two-way tops...or just of badly designed two-way loudspeakers? None of the well designed two-way loudspeakers I know of (including smaller loudspeakers) display this shortcoming in their performance. I didn't know that three-way tops inherently present a more complete audio image than two-way tops just because they are three-way.

Meyer Sound, L'Acoustics, Martin, Nexo, Renkus Heinz, d&b, Danley and every other pro level manufacturer produce good sounding two-way tops that present a "complete audio image"...go figure.

Anyway, I gather from your report that (just like other similar systems) it looks and sounds good enough for music playback and speech at fancy functions, and would make a good public address system in public spaces, but are hardly suited for other duties. Is that accurate?
Old 1 week ago
  #75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Is this really a 'feature' of two-way tops...or just of badly designed two-way loudspeakers? None of the well designed two-way loudspeakers I know of (including smaller loudspeakers) display this shortcoming in their performance. I didn't know that three-way tops inherently present a more complete audio image than two-way tops just because they are three-way.

Meyer Sound, L'Acoustics, Martin, Nexo, Renkus Heinz, d&b, Danley and every other pro level manufacturer produce good sounding two-way tops that present a "complete audio image"...go figure.

Anyway, I gather from your report that (just like other similar systems) it looks and sounds good enough for music playback and speech at fancy functions, and would make a good public address system in public spaces, but are hardly suited for other duties. Is that accurate?
Samc,

Our experiences vary. And hearing is subjective, I have been unimpressed by some really expensive high end speakers, that others rave about(and this applies to studio, home entertainment, and live speaker categories). That's what my ears tell me and there are no apologies for my opinion.

From the list of two ways you included, I have heard only the two way d&b and L'Acoustics, so I cannot give an informed opinion about any other high end 2 way point source speakers.

Personally I did not like the two way d&b point sources, and they had a similar presentation to the L'Acoustics, which I also did not like and would not use as my main FOH in a small venue - they simply did not present the lifelike audio image I enjoy working with and serving my audience with. IMHO, these 2 way point source speakers are not the forte of these manufacturers, from an audio quality perspective. This may come as a shock, but I prefer the sound of some inexpensive two way speakers like the Mackie 450's to the d&b or L'Acoustic 2 ways(for FOH/mains), and would be more comfortable using these 450's instead. Shocking but true... my preference.

From what I have heard, at close quarters, which was over a two week period @ d&b's workshops in the demo room/office in the UK, their line arrays are a significant step up in sonic precision over and above their point source two ways, which I really do not care for and which did not impress me(even when combined with d&b subs). I am hopefully entitled to an opinion on this however different it might be from the opinion of others. I heard what I heard.

d&b line arrays - yes these are a different kettle of fish. I definitely love the sound of these, and they are the live speakers I have heard, that impressed me the most, thus far.

My earlier opinion on the difference in audio quality between 2 ways and three way point sources comes from using JBL point source passive speakers, where I had both of these options in the same venue, and I mixed events regularly over several months, and the three ways gave me a much better soundstage to mix with. My experience. The two ways simply did not sound as good - too tinny.

My earlier point was not to dismiss 2 way speakers as inadequate, but to use the relative improvement in the audio quality of 3 way speakers as a simile for the improvement that the L'Acoustic Syva introduced, in my opinion, over and above the L'Acoustic 2 way tops.

It is difficult to judge how well the Syva would cope with live music, without personal experience, unless some assumptions are made. In this case I would assume that for good live use :

1. Venue size is small - with sound coverage required no more than 25 meters in front/from the speakers (L'Acoustic claims they throw adequately to 35 meters, but I cannot guarantee as the demo space did not give me the opportunity to hear them at that distance - it was a smallish night club venue where I listened to them.

2. For maximum SPL, some compression/limiting(+gain) would be applied across the mix, on the mixing board(if digital) or outboard (if analog), to control peaks, reduce dynamic range slightly, somewhat similar to processing that is applied to commercial music.

3. Good system EQ is applied, e.g. via the DSP on the L'Acoustic amplifiers, to tame any room resonances, and or speaker/driver resonances (I had mentioned earlier that I found the high end(about 10Khz and above) a bit harsh - if I was mixing, I'd use EQ across the system EQ to fix that, overall, to my taste). At the demo I attended, with the subs, from listening alone, I found the 80hz to about 200hz region to be somewhat overstated(but not as glaringly bothersome as the higher frequency resonances), and this was corroborated by the frequency plots which were presented thereafter, at the event, and would also fix this bump, via the DSP, to taste.
Old 1 week ago
  #76
Lives for gear
 

I'm not really concerned with any clearly stated opinion, only you can/should decide what you like and don't like? it was the statement that seem to suggest that three-way tops inherently "present a more complete audio image, than 2 way tops" that caught my attention. Apparently, it was just an opinion so never mind...
Old 1 week ago
  #77
Lives for gear
 
mojo filters's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Why is the cost a con...they charge what they want and if people are willing to pay or not is another thing, the only con would be trying to pass them off as line 'anything'.
When I chatted to our local L-Acoustics hire shop about these, the high cost they had concerns about related to the "plug'n'play" package which makes up a full system.

For each top, users are expected to also buy the matching Syva low (which I believe has the integral rigging and wiring), plus to get extension down to 30Hz requires two of the matching subs.

This was a while ago, before anyone had even heard them, and so I might have some details slightly wrong.

As I recall this full system of 4 boxes per side, was supposed to need a full LA4X for each side - so that means 8 amp channels per pair of Syva tops!

I appreciate these new low and sub boxes are designed to complement the slim profile of the tops, and thus some users may find purchasing the full system worthwhile.

It seems quite a contrast to the efficiency of perhaps their most effective and versatile speaker products, Arcs Wide and Focus. I love the WiFo array's ability to run from 1 amp channel, with a WiFo pair able to cover impressively large spaces at high concert volumes, with minimal fill requirements in most rooms, making an exceptionally potent, compact and effective solution with the usual L-Acoustics high quality.

I know that's another 2-way top like Syva, and sub frequencies are obviously more demanding in every respect. However it still seems excessive that 3 sub type boxes containing 4 drivers in total, manage to need 3 relatively expensive amp channels.

The concern of the L-Acoustics owner was the potential inability to use existing inventory alongside the Syva tops. For example the typical application anticipated would not need sub bass down to the infra type frequencies of these new subs.

At the time of this discussion, they were unsure whether the Syva tops could simply be pole mounted over an SB18, or placed on an SB28. Are there new presets allowing the tops to be used with existing L-Acoustics subs?

For the typical speech programme events I would use them for, the -3dB point of around 80Hz would make the Syva tops alone suitable. Will there be other options to elevate them, plus is the connection between the top and low box the only connectivity option?

I'm sure lots of these questions are now answered. It would seem short sighted to limit the utility of this new product, by forcing prospective users to buy at a minium additional subwoofers, which does not seem to be particularly flexible in terms of integration with existing L-Acoustics inventory.

I assume the demo addressed many of these issues The main concern of my colleague was integrating Syva tops with an SB18.

For instance, could the Syva low box's processing preset be used with that sub, to get some low frequency support but sacrificing the low extension capability to increase output, in line with the output of the Syva tops themselves?
Old 1 week ago
  #78
Lives for gear
 

There were a few things I didn't 'get' about this product when I first heard about it, and because I knew it wouldn't be appropriate for about 99.9% of the gigs I do I kinda just forgot about it, but I'm not surprised by the fact that they need a special sub-woofer to go with the compliment of 5" woofers which make for a nice sleek look but probably won't put out enough low-end to couple properly with the SB subs and that is why it needs a low and sub box to meet the design specifications. Hence, I am really surprised to hear that they apparently sound better than all the other two-way point source speakers in the catalog...I'll certainly have to take a listen now especially because I consider the ARCS box to be one of the best live sound products on the market.

Anyway, underneath all the line source marketing garbage (which is very disappointing from a company of their reputation), and because of the extremely wide output dispersion I'm convinced this product was not designed for live music use, and to be fair they haven't made any claims about their appropriateness for live music that I've seen. So if these are made for multimedia presentations and speaking reinforcement and playback you certainly don't need the SB woofers, not even if they're used for music playback in bars and smaller clubs...
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