The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
LD Systems Curv 500 vs Turbosound Inspire IP2000 Mixers (Digital)
Old 5th January 2017
  #31
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSDTrinity View Post
Everyone that responded....thank you very much for your opinions and insights. I was following along and have been through everyone's advice a couple of times weighing the pros/cons of everything. This is what I came up with:

In all of the posts that I read, no one has actually said they heard the Curv 500 against other speakers. I actually went to a local music store that sold QSC, Yamaha, Peavey and the LDs. I listened to the Curv 500 against 12" and 15" sub combos as well as stand alone 12" powered speakers. I listened at low volumes and high volumes. Each combination had it's + and -s but when I weighed all the factors involved, the Curvs won out because:

1. They were LOUD when pushed and did NOT sound tinny. The sub is small but the cross over frequencies seem to work.
2. For where we are playing, this will be MORE than enough whether we want to run vocals only or the entire mix.
3. Price wise, the Curv 500 PS (which 2 sides) lists for $2200 (but I'll come back to price in a second).
4. For monitors, the dispersion pattern of the Curv allows you to hear pretty clear from the side and based upon where we've played, this should work. We have some other monitors we can hook up if need be or I'll buy a used 10" QSC or Yamaha for that. I can even run a direct IEM through one of the aux's on the X18.
5. If money were no object, I would have bought the RCF EVOX 8 but 2 of those units run $1800 a piece. The guy I was dealing with told me that they would sound better and be a little bit louder but based on what I was telling him, the Curv would work great for my application. I thought about a pair of used EVOX 8s but the shipping was ridiculous making it not much of a better buy then new.


I found a place in NJ called KPODJ.COM that was great and had ridiculous prices:

The Curv 500 PS 2199 my price 1940.
Behringer X AIR XR18 $699 my price $495 (yes, its brand new I kept asking - are you sure?)

I wanted the AIR XR18 not just because of the # channels (and flexible connection options) but the added ability to record each channel individually.

I know this will handle the places we are playing and the places we would like to play. If by some stroke of magic genius, we're asked to play an outdoor festival or some really large venue that this won't handle, we'll rent a sound company to professionally work our sound.

Regarding vocals only vs. full mics - my thoughts are to experiment with what sounds the best. So far, we've only been running vocals that way and an occasional kick/snare to give it some bottom. The problems have been unbalanced guitars on either side depending on where you stand.

I'm a network and software engineer so digital is the only way I wanted to go. I already own a 12-channel Xenyx mixer with faders and knobs and it does nothing special. I want the flexibility to mix the sound anywhere or hand it over to someone who can hear us and mix while we play. I'm breaking down for one of those iPad clips for the mic stand so I can do it as needed. The best part about the digital mixer is that I can save my profiles and inputs so that I don't need to remember any settings or have marks on the mixer to manually adjust everything right away.

The gear should be arriving at the end of the week or early next week. I'll have plenty of time to test it out and see what it can and can't do. What I do know is that based on what I've been currently using, this will be much better.

Thanks again for all of the feedback it was extremely helpful. I can post a follow up if anyone is interested.
Wow that was a good price on the mixer. I bought one from my local store 4 months ago for $600.00. I would be interested in a follow up.
Old 5th January 2017
  #32
Follow up please
Old 31st May 2017
  #33
Here for the gear
 

Sorry for totally neglecting this response. My email associated with this account wasn't receiving notifications and I never got any warnings. Apologies please.

I will give you all an update on the LD Systems and the mixer:

The mixer is great. Compact in size and can sit on the stage. I've had no issues with the built-in wifi however it does have a limited range. The screens and the way the app works takes some getting used to but overall I work the mixer from my Samsung S7. I should use a bigger tablet but haven't gotten around to it. It did take a while to dial in the settings that I most frequently use but now that they are saved its easy switching back.

Now for the LD Curvs. I was totally excited about them when I got them and I have to say they did NOT disappoint. Here's the good and the bad:

The subs unit is fairly light and has easy to grip handles making moving them pretty easy. The attachment poles and satellites for the top are easy to configure quickly and the actual individual satellites are dense and heavy. Their casing I believe is aluminum but they are pretty rugged. They are easy to split up and take apart (as they latch together and stack when in use) and store in smaller places.

There are 3 cables that come with the unit: 2 x 4' speakon cable that connects each satellite system to the base sub and then 1 x 30 feet (roughly might be longer) that connects the main unit (with mixer) to the opposite side. Setup takes literally 15-20 minutes with everything hooked in - including the mixer. I run the left and right out from the mixer into channel 3-4 of the LD main unit. Setting up the left or right designation for the 2 sides is done though choosing which side you want the main speaker to be on - if you plug it into the left, the other speaker becomes the right. If you plug it right, vice versa.

There is bluetooth and I connect my phone to the main unit while I'm setting up so I can hear some music while it plays out. The BT channel doubles on channel 4 so when you are ready for sound check, you need to disconnect otherwise you will hear BOTH BT and input on channel 4.

The sound quality and volume are really good for the size and price of this unit. I haven't been able to compare this with a Bose L1 system yet but I've heard the TurboSound system and this kicks it's ass at any volume level.

I've used it to play an open outdoor show where it started to show it's lack of serious power once you were away from the stage at about 40-50 feet but for the crowd of 100-200 people that were their, they could hear us (we mic'd everything). It's NOT ideal for this situation.

We played another outdoor party where we were in a covered area and the sound was mixed better (hey, you learn from your mistakes) and was perfect volume level. This had about 50 - 70 people and the distance was not that far.

Another gig we did, we played outside again (and here I thought we'd always be playing indoors!) and this time, it had some dead spots where I think some things were absorbing the sound (like pillars or structures) and where there was a clear line of sight, the sound was great.

Our last gig of the season we played in an enclosed patio outside to 200 people and when the sound was really good (this was my fourth gig mixing sound with it so I'm sure that added to the quality) but the acoustics helped immensely.

We noticed in practice immediately from our 12" powered Harbingers how well and clear our vocals are sound and the speakers have everything to do with that. I've yet to use them in bar situation but I can't see them being anything short of amazing. I've been in bars and listened to other bands with their sound and these really do stack up nicely. I also compared them to a pair of EV12's (I think the economy version) using recorded music and the LDs had more power and better definition.

So what are the negatives? Not too many but obviously, the overall power for getting really loud to fill a very large hall or tons of people, these are going to cut it. They will work in just about any bar I can think of though. These days we get bitched at to make sure we watch our volume.

The only other negative might be they aren't as "pretty" as the BOSE L1 or Inspire's sleek looks.

I definitely suggest buying the bags to keep them in. I haven't yet bought them but I plan to. It will just keep them a little less scuffed up.

I really don't think that for what I paid you could find a better system for a band PA. It has the quality and great sound and when you mix it with the XR18 you've got tons of flexibility. They are extremely versatile and portable.

I hope this helps - hit me up for any direct questions on either product.

Sorry for the delay.
Old 5th July 2017
  #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSDTrinity View Post
Thank you, I might take you up on that but in the meantime, I'm in contact with a dealer that has both LD and RCF. I've also contacted someone who has the RCF Evox 5s and 8s and uses it as part of a larger setup within their main PA but they play larger venues.

I'm wondering if I could do 2 of the Evox 5s as they would be less expensive then the 8s. I'm scouring Reverb and eBay to see if there are any used 8s out there as well.

If I buy the RCFs, it will be a leap of faith but on 1 video I watched, they sounded 10x better than a matchup head to head with JBL PRX612m top cabs over Yamaha DXS12 subs.

If I could get away with 2 x Evox 5s I'd actually be saving money!

Link to video please ?
Old 21st March 2018
  #35
Here for the gear
 

Thanks for this discussion. I’m in band with three female vocalists (one who plays acoustic guitar) bass, drums, and lead guitar. Recently we had sax player sit in. Often the venue has PA (100+ crowd). For some smaller and the 2 outdoor gigs we do, our guitar player brings 2 Bose L1, the big ones. Bass & guitar bring own amps. My keys go through PA.

My issue is monitoring, with the L1 it’s non-issue and we all like the sound. With every house PA, some w pro or semi-pro sound person, we can’t seem to get the monitors right. I want to hear what audience hears.

Plus there is the size & weight. We used to use 2 Mackie 450 & Alto for monitors. 3 cars, (we have our instruments too). Thus the appeal of sticks.

Is hearing what audience hears a fantasy? Thx.
Old 21st March 2018
  #36
Lives for gear
 
Wyllys's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Thanks for this discussion. I’m in band with three female vocalists (one who plays acoustic guitar) bass, drums, and lead guitar. Recently we had sax player sit in. Often the venue has PA (100+ crowd). For some smaller and the 2 outdoor gigs we do, our guitar player brings 2 Bose L1, the big ones. Bass & guitar bring own amps. My keys go through PA.

My issue is monitoring, with the L1 it’s non-issue and we all like the sound. With every house PA, some w pro or semi-pro sound person, we can’t seem to get the monitors right. I want to hear what audience hears.

Plus there is the size & weight. We used to use 2 Mackie 450 & Alto for monitors. 3 cars, (we have our instruments too). Thus the appeal of sticks.

Is hearing what audience hears a fantasy? Thx.
Not a total fantasy, but not really necessary either. You need to hear what you need to hear to be effective. What the audience hears is, for better or worse, up to the sound person and how tight you are to begin with.

I suggest starting by listening to the mix without monitors for a start, then one by one adding any needed audio not present in the room sound from your position on stage to your monitor.

The worst thing you can do is to start trying to tweak the sound persons mix from how things sound on stage...monitors or no. The best thing you can do is to be able to have a good ensemble sound without any PA involved. Get your...sound...together, then just reinforce it with PA.

Good luck.
Old 29th March 2018
  #37
Here for the gear
 

Listening to mix without monitors first sounds like good suggestion, thx. My problem usually arises playing organ sounds, which I often change volume a few times during a song- fade in, fade out, super loud on certain part (along w drums and everyone else). On the fade ins and outs I'm kind of weaving my way around the vocals, soft when they are singing then swelling fills when they aren't, trading w lead guitar, then back out, and I can't always hear where I am in the mix, hence my frustration. Maybe it sounds ok to audience but if it does I wouldn't know, I feel kind of detached and not comfortable. The few recordings we have do sound ok, but not always.

Anyway, if the Bose L1 type arrangements help avoid the stage monitor issues, I'm up for trying different configurations of them, even if we end up needing like 4 of them.
Old 30th March 2018
  #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Listening to mix without monitors first sounds like good suggestion, thx. My problem usually arises playing organ sounds, which I often change volume a few times during a song- fade in, fade out, super loud on certain part (along w drums and everyone else). On the fade ins and outs I'm kind of weaving my way around the vocals, soft when they are singing then swelling fills when they aren't, trading w lead guitar, then back out, and I can't always hear where I am in the mix, hence my frustration. Maybe it sounds ok to audience but if it does I wouldn't know, I feel kind of detached and not comfortable. The few recordings we have do sound ok, but not always.

Anyway, if the Bose L1 type arrangements help avoid the stage monitor issues, I'm up for trying different configurations of them, even if we end up needing like 4 of them.
The phenomena of escalating volume levels during a performance, as each member of the band competes to, at the very least hear themselves, is probably lesson 101 of live performance. A very very common phenomenon.

In my experience, the chief cause of the escalation starts with the loudest instrument - usually acoustic drums, as soon as the drummer plays loud, everyone plays louder, the drummer continues to play even louder, and a never ending cycle of ever increasing volume of all instruments is the result.

Monitoring in itself, no matter how good the monitoring you have will solve this problem. Monitoring will not reduce this volume on the stage.

Ideally all that is needed is a bit of education, if everyone in the group understand this volume escalation phenomenon, the answer is clear - discipline, especially on the part of the loudest instruments.

Because you are a mobile band, carrying additional sound isolating panels (ideally transparent - like perspex panels) to protect the rest of the band from excessive loudness of a few loud instruments like drums, is an additional challenge. Not the easiest most portable solution, but a good one if you were setup in a fixed venue, performing at the same location over a few days.

Some space planning on stage, to increase the distance from loud instruments should be considered.

Having done all you can to reduce the volume of acoustic sources, next step will be to reduce the volume of any monitoring (speakers/guitar cabinets) to further reduce the overall volume on stage

Where a large budget permits, then replacing speaker monitors or on-stage guitar/bass amps, with an in-ear system is a decent solution, eliminating the need for on stage monitoring altogether, resulting in a much quieter stage. But this is very likely to be expensive.

I would also recommend using compression on all audio sources, to limit their dynamic range and make them so much easier for everyone to hear themselves. Be careful with this one, cos you need to also ensure that the compressed audio is also feeding the aux sends that feed amy monitors. (i.e aux sends are post EQ and post inserts like the compression on each channel.

One of my greatest lessons in live mixing was spending weeks - typically Weekends(Saturday and Sunday at a church with its own fixed premises) setting up compression on all audio sources only to discover that the aux sends were configured to receive audio - pre insert effects(such as compression) and pre-eq - Result - the audience was enjoying a really lovely controlled sound, while all this hard work was not heard in any way, by the singers and the band.

If possible also compress and eq each of the aux busses, feeding the stage monitors, to reduce the dynamic range of the entire feed, and make it that much easier to hear even better on stage. This will allow you to further reduce the levels of the composite audio from the Aux busses which feed your stage monitors

Do not make too many of these aforementioned changes prior to an event, to give yourself a more risk free evolution of your audio path, ad give the band time to adjust to each change.
Old 30th March 2018
  #39
Lives for gear
 
Wyllys's Avatar
 

Using compression in an attempt to limit overall volume is not really a good or practical idea in my book, likely to bring on a host of other issues. The only way to limit overall volume is for each player to have (self) control of their output level and deal with the problem at the source rather than trying to catch the horse after it's left the barn...
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump