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Line array opinions Turntables
Old 14th December 2016
  #1
Gear Head
Line array opinions

So, I'm looking for a bit of "sage advice" about line arrays as an investment. It has come to my attention that everybody and their mother is now making fairly inexpensive "line arrays" (though I know the true implementation is usually not quite as intended) so my question is: Say I'm looking to get a system and have to choose between a point source system and an array system. Would it be a decent idea at all to get a few array boxes per side and ground stacked them (essentially using them as vertical stacked point source) and expand by getting more boxes and moving to hang. Or would it be more advantageous to get a point source system and move to line array when the time comes.

Also, as an aside, opinions on RCF? Any good or just run of the mill?

Thanks.
Ryan

Last edited by AVAM; 14th December 2016 at 09:22 AM.. Reason: Grammar inconsistencies
Old 14th December 2016
  #2
Gear Maniac
 

Line array

I Think it really depends on where it is going to be used. I have seen a number of line Array systems that have been installed or used in venues when a point source based system would have been much more appropriate.
Old 14th December 2016
  #3
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Some things to consider:
Just because a box looks like a line-array box does not make it so.
Even if the system is properly designed, it will not perform like a line array if the line is too short.
Line arrays are not suitable for every situation, and if you're only working smaller gigs this might not be the best type of system for you.
Old 14th December 2016
  #4
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mojo filters's Avatar
 

As mentioned, proper implementation of line array elements requires a minimum number of units to achieve enough length to effectively control the pattern. Hence when used properly, an array cannot necessarily be scaled down just because the area of coverage required is smaller than the coverage capability of the array size in use.

The worst implementation and mis-application of line array elements, is a ground stacked dash array. Just because there are now line array elements available at pro-sumer prices, does not mean an inexperienced user should be buying them on what sounds suspiciously like a few boxes per month plan! It's foolish to look at simply the price of individual boxes. The full rigging package must be included to properly cost a whole system, plus factoring in signal and power distribution.

Unlike a point source array (eg Turbo Flashlight, KF850) or constant curvature arrays (L-Acoustics' Arcs sounds great and is very flexible) where additional elements can easily be added to increase the coverage when required, to use a line array correctly requires a minimum number of elements to achieve enough length to control the vertical pattern, and the array should be flown to provide more even coverage from front to back, as well as to direct the wasted sound energy focused behind the array upwards and out of earshot.

Obviously line arrays are not always used in their ideal formation. Hence sometimes smaller ground stacked dash arrays are the only option. This kind of use requires an experienced system tech, and even then the sound quality is not always particularly good.

The plan in the OP appears fatally flawed as the user intends to start out with insufficient array elements incorrectly positioned. I would question how the OP expects to earn sufficient money to eventually buy a proper line array system? Is the local market crying out for a beginner to provide a badly deployed rig with an insufficient number of boxes, just for the sake of having what they can call a "line array"?

If the magic words "line array" won't justify these compromises and the initial investment cost, surely it's better to find a more suitable product that can perform in the circumstances envisaged by the OP? There are many more tools available, unfortunately most manufacturers seem determined to promote line array systems regardless of their suitability, hence the alternatives are sometimes a bit harder to find.

Ultimately the market is driven by demand, and it seems increasingly common that instead of a more appropriate PA system, small numbers of badly deployed "line arrays" are preferred regardless of the huge compromises involved. Consequently the OP should invest in what will make the best return for him/her, which means understanding the marketplace you are entering!
Old 14th December 2016
  #5
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
Some things to consider:
Just because a box looks like a line-array box does not make it so.
Even if the system is properly designed, it will not perform like a line array if the line is too short.
Line arrays are not suitable for every situation, and if you're only working smaller gigs this might not be the best type of system for you.
I saw this install at a community center. The county paid for it out of a $1.6MM budget funded by a gas tax.



It's definitely JBL. I think they're VerTec or VTX. 4 elements plus 2 subs on each side.

I've never configured a system like that before, but I don't think it does anything to achieve line-array performance.

I'm guessing it cost around $40K just for the elements, and it sounds horrible because of the acoustics of the space. There's no stereo separation practical with that spacing, just comb filtering effect. Obviously, the space is very challenging and they didn't have the budget to do it right, but it appears like they were led to believe that the technological wonder of a line array would just solve their problems.
Old 17th December 2016
  #6
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RCF is great, not sure how long they've been making cabinets, but they've been making world class drivers going back to the 80's at least. I find their line array tops very good and their subs are really killer. Wouldn't hesitate to go with RCF or EV, not a fan of JBL Verteks, I would expect that EAW, Meyer, Martin, Nexo, L'Acoustics, or d&b would be more expensive but I've never priced them out. Dynacomp does a nice array too, no idea what they're worth.

A good entry-level line array speaker is the QSC KLA12, but they're no louder than a typical decent 12" cab but they throw nicely. They're great for large spaces needing family-friendly volumes. But because they're fixed angle cabs you really gotta fly them to get big volume out of them, and even then only so much. But you can pole up one pair over subs and cover an acre pretty clearly.
Old 18th December 2016
  #7
Gear Addict
 

RCF are one of those companies you'd call 'perfectly reasonable', their gear is well built and reliable, but it's nothing special.

If you're going to buy into line array make sure it is a true line array system. There's lots of things which look like Line Array which, are not in fact, line source. They're just cabinets hung below one another in a manner that looks a bit like a line array.

I would look into buying used, of either dV-DOSC (L'Acoustics), W8C (Martin) or Q-series (d&B), you will get a lot more for your money than buying a mid range system brand new.
Old 19th December 2016
  #8
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Dutchy15's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC2SPL View Post
A good entry-level line array speaker is the QSC KLA12, but they're no louder than a typical decent 12" cab but they throw nicely. They're great for large spaces needing family-friendly volumes. But because they're fixed angle cabs you really gotta fly them to get big volume out of them, and even then only so much. But you can pole up one pair over subs and cover an acre pretty clearly.

And here we go. The QSC KLA12 is NOT A LINE-ARRAY! It's a vertical constant curvature array system, meaning that the angles between the array modules cannot be changed. This results in a maximum amount of 4 or 5 boxes per hang/stack before the vertical dispersion becomes useless, hence the array length is far from the necessary minimum.

The KLA system is basically an expensive point-source system with some easy rigging built in. In my opinion a line-array system is a rather specialist tool, designed for specific situations where a certain coverage is required. For most small applications a point-source system is much more suitable.
I just came home from a 6-concert "tour" which visited 6 clubs ranging from 400 to 1200 capacities. There was one line-array (Kudo), one "fake array" (d&b T-series, only 4 per side) and 4 conventional point-source systems (C7, W8C, MSL4). In my opinion the point-source systems were much more suitable for the rooms and sounded better, despite being older designs.


Dutchy
Old 19th December 2016
  #9
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edva's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchy15 View Post
In my opinion the point-source systems were much more suitable for the rooms and sounded better, despite being older designs.


Dutchy
This. For most small to medium sized venues, a good quality point-source system is better than a faux line array; and a real line array is overkill. IME and IMHO. Good luck.
Old 19th December 2016
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchy15 View Post
In my opinion the point-source systems were much more suitable for the rooms and sounded better, despite being older designs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edva View Post
This. For most small to medium sized venues, a good quality point-source system is better than a faux line array; and a real line array is overkill. IME and IMHO. Good luck.
I agree, this is almost always the case in smaller to medium sized venues, and the fake line array installations almost never sound right.
Old 19th December 2016
  #11
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchy15 View Post
And here we go. The QSC KLA12 is NOT A LINE-ARRAY! It's a vertical constant curvature array system, meaning that the angles between the array modules cannot be changed. This results in a maximum amount of 4 or 5 boxes per hang/stack before the vertical dispersion becomes useless, hence the array length is far from the necessary minimum.
And herein lies the problem with "entry level" line arrays... they're often not line arrays but are bought by people who think they are, based on the advice of somebody who thought they were; neither really understanding what line arrays are, what line arrays do, or the benefits / weaknesses. The reason point source systems are still produced at all is because line arrays have anything but superseded them. (One thing people often don't realise is that line arrays have been around over 20 years, they are not new; companies producing faux line array based on the success of the buzzword is all that's new).

Also I thought this picture on the QSC website was interesting...


I don't know any truss manufacturer who would recommend that any load be taken up by choking a small steel rope over one of the diagonal braces in the truss. That is most definitely outside the parameters of the truss's design.

Also this picture is a bit contradictory too:


The reason you would use an extension to pick up in front of the array is to make the bottom of the array swing forward and give you more up angle. In which case, you wouldn't want to, or possible even be able, to pick it up from the back of the bottom cabinet. The only reason you ever really use a 'pullback' rigging design (IE lifting up the back of the bottom box) is to gain more down angle - and if you want more down angle you wouldn't pick up from an extension over the front. So it's normally one or the other, not both.

So it seems to me that even the manufacturer doesn't really understand what they're talking about, let alone their target market...
Old 19th December 2016
  #12
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Dutchy15's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by de003 View Post
And herein lies the problem with "entry level" line arrays...
-----------------------------
So it seems to me that even the manufacturer doesn't really understand what they're talking about, let alone their target market...
It also proves my point that more than four or five cabinets per array creates a vertical dispersion pattern that is pretty much useless for 95 percent of the applications...

That rigging is complete bull**** by the way, QSC is losing points here.


Dutchy
Old 19th December 2016
  #13
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edva's Avatar
that's some scary looking rigging there.
Old 19th December 2016
  #14
KEL
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The QSC rig looks fine for 3 boxes then the angles become almost ridiculous. Maybe if there was a balcony needing the top cab to shoot up ward and at the same time some audience sitting just in front of the hang...

I don't think you're supposed to loop the steel through it's eyelet..
Old 19th December 2016
  #15
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RCF TT series are really great speakers. I'd highly recommend them.
They also have some plastic speakers that sound like... plastic speakers.

If you have a too short array, flying would be still better than ground stacking.
Smaller line array modules work quite well as point source speakers.

If you are sure that you'll add more boxes, line array can be a good investment, otherwise you'll pay way more than you'd for a comparable point source system, which you could probably still use for front/down/side fills if you get a line array someday.
Old 20th December 2016
  #16
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I suspect the OP meant the HDL10 and HDL20 line array boxes from RCF, as unlike most professional speakers, they can be found for sale via online stores that include the cost. This is a sharp pencil design, with stamped frame drivers, ferrite magnets and minimal feature set (eg no RD Net) helping drive the cost of the boxes down. Thus compared to the TT series, the individual boxes seem cheap.

The problem is that the individual box price does not properly reflect the full cost of purchasing a complete array. All the accessories needed to make an array of these boxes work as per the intent of the original designers, still need to be bought. Most of these required accessories are effectively fixed in cost, as there's far less room to make savings in designing cheap rigging, signal and power distribution.

One hire shop I regularly work with has an extensive stock of various RCF speakers, from powered SoS rigs to medium and large format line arrays. The difference between the sound of the wooden boxed TT arrays and the plastic HDL20 is not as obvious as the price difference suggests. However these arrays are always rigged properly, by professionals.

The cheaper plastic boxes probably do sound like cheap plastic boxes, when used by a novice with no understanding of modern vertical loudspeaker arrays, who just bought an insufficient number of boxes that they cannot even afford to fly.

I think RCF does itself a disservice by allowing the HD series to be sold like MI products, through vendors who don't indicate much understanding themselves of how these boxes should be used correctly - for example not packaging line array elements with flying frames and other required rigging.

This seems like an inevitable recipe to get a bad reputation for a product, via inexperienced users incorrectly deploying a ground-stacked dash array. I sometimes work in a prestigious venue that has an installed array of HDL20s, and they sound perfectly acceptable. It's interesting when a carrying tour hangs a more prestigious product, as the sound quality does not necessarily improve in line with the reputation.

Of course the latter is more to do with how proper installs should sound better than temporary touring rigs, but my point was not to write off products just because they don't use all the upmarket components expected - at least not until you've actually had the opportunity to properly evaluate the product.
Old 20th December 2016
  #17
Gear Addict
 

Get a line array when all the following are met:

1. Your ratio of long distance to short distance is high. In other words when you need to cover the area near the FoH, as well as more than 3 times as far away. Example: you have an area 20' from the front, and the back row is 150' back. A line array can help, but only if the next two criteria are met. Otherwise, you can use satellites on delay.

2. You have enough height. Outdoors, the available space might not a problem, but hanging a long array from a great height can be a challenge. Indoors or out, if the ratio of long to short distance is too small, the array will have to be excessively long to achieve enough vertical coverage. Some constant-curvature arrays offer more extreme angles in a short package, but line arrays are typically 3 to 8 degrees maximum per enclosure. So to get a 75 degree vertical angle to cover front to back, you might need at least 10 elements.

You also need enough height to hang a line array long enough for a low break frequency. It takes 4.5' for a break frequency of 1000Hz, which is considered minimum. 9' lowers the break frequency to 500Hz, and would be where the line array starts to perform. An 18' array has a break frequency of 250Hz and that's where it could work excellent for speech. If an 18' array would be stacked from floor to ceiling, you should look at other options.

If the necessary length of the array to achieve the right vertical coverage and low enough break frequency results in a number of elements that provides excess capability for SPL, the array may not be the sensible solution.

3. You need wide coverage and do not need tight horizontal control. If the venue has reflective surfaces to the sides, a line array is typically not the best solution to control reflections off those.

Of course there are rule-breakers (like line arrays that can go narrow, digital steering, etc.), especially on the high-end, but from an entry-level perspective, I think those 3 rules are fair. Let me know if I misunderstand something.
Old 21st December 2016
  #18
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Dutchy15's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calneva View Post
Get a line array when all the following are met:

1. Your ratio of long distance to short distance is high. In other words when you need to cover the area near the FoH, as well as more than 3 times as far away. Example: you have an area 20' from the front, and the back row is 150' back. A line array can help, but only if the next two criteria are met. Otherwise, you can use satellites on delay.

2. You have enough height. Outdoors, the available space might not a problem, but hanging a long array from a great height can be a challenge. Indoors or out, if the ratio of long to short distance is too small, the array will have to be excessively long to achieve enough vertical coverage. Some constant-curvature arrays offer more extreme angles in a short package, but line arrays are typically 3 to 8 degrees maximum per enclosure. So to get a 75 degree vertical angle to cover front to back, you might need at least 10 elements.

You also need enough height to hang a line array long enough for a low break frequency. It takes 4.5' for a break frequency of 1000Hz, which is considered minimum. 9' lowers the break frequency to 500Hz, and would be where the line array starts to perform. An 18' array has a break frequency of 250Hz and that's where it could work excellent for speech. If an 18' array would be stacked from floor to ceiling, you should look at other options.

If the necessary length of the array to achieve the right vertical coverage and low enough break frequency results in a number of elements that provides excess capability for SPL, the array may not be the sensible solution.

3. You need wide coverage and do not need tight horizontal control. If the venue has reflective surfaces to the sides, a line array is typically not the best solution to control reflections off those.

Of course there are rule-breakers (like line arrays that can go narrow, digital steering, etc.), especially on the high-end, but from an entry-level perspective, I think those 3 rules are fair. Let me know if I misunderstand something.

What do you mean with "break frequency"? I've never heard of that term before. As far as I know, it's all just basic physics in the low end. If an 18' array has a "break frequency" (lowest frequency for which it acts as a line source, I presume) of 250Hz, how long should an array with a 60Hz "break frequency" be? Because a lot of modern systems are moving towards full-range reproduction from the array itself, without the need for (ridiculous amounts of) extra subs, with L'acoustics going down to 60Hz or lower.

The longer the array, the lower the frequency at which it will start behaving like a line source, that's true. Also, the longer the array, the stronger the line-source effect will be on frequency X compared to a shorter array.
Keep in mind that a line array only behaves as a line array for a certain distance, after which it'll be just another point source. This is called the critical distance.

The distance between the nearest point that needs to be covered and the furthest point that needs to be covered isn't of all that much importance for the choice of system. It is however very important for the system's position. The distance from the system to the furthest point should ideally be no more than twice the distance from the system to the nearest point. This makes for an SPL drop of roughly 6dB from the nearest to the furthest point, which is generally seen as acceptable. Whether you use a line source or point source for this only becomes interesting when factoring in the critical distance, as line sources only drop off 3dB per doubling of the distance to the source, instead of the 6dB drop-off as featured by point sources. This means that the distance between the nearest and furthest point can be much larger as long as you take into account the critical distance and how it influences the SPL drop-off over distance.

Now the real challenge is to make the subs do the same thing...


Dutchy
Old 21st December 2016
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calneva View Post
Get a line array when all the following are met:
3. You need wide coverage and do not need tight horizontal control. If the venue has reflective surfaces to the sides, a line array is typically not the best solution to control reflections off those.
Yes. This.

All of your points are excellent and concise, but it's this third one that I see most often blatantly overlooked . . . I'll see line-array elements proposed for long shoebox-shaped rooms, and ask the designer "What about the horizontal pattern?" All too often I'll get a deer-in-the-headlights look and no coherent response, even from a professional who seems to have a reasonably good grasp of the tradeoffs on the vertical directivity.

This is even more of an issue with super-thin digitally-steered speech-oriented products, which do have some truly amazing tricks they can do on the vertical plane, and have absolutely no magic at all on the horizontal.
Old 21st December 2016
  #20
Gear Addict
 

Break frequency is where the array no longer acts as a line source, and so the lower frequencies fall off more with distance. Above the break frequency, the falloff of sound level could follow the line-array’s ~3 dB per doubling of distance as described, but below that frequency, the array begins to behave like a conventional loudspeaker as the fall-off approaches 6 dB per doubling of distance.

So a short line array of only 4.5' is going to be thin on fundamental frequencies at the back, and not consistent at the various distances at all. If you have the space and SPL needs that a 9' to 18' foot array fills, the break frequency is satisfactory for many purposes, but the higher break frequency of a short array is not something that can easily be overcome. The wavelength of soundwaves in the lower frequencies determines this limitation.

It's the reason behind why sub-bass (subwoofer) frequencies are typically outside the scope of the line array. Theoretically, if the array were long enough it would handle the subwoofer frequencies just as well. For 31Hz, the array would need to be 144' long. With short arrays, even bass, mid-bass, and mid-range frequencies fall off and the only thing the "line" array is throwing is the highs.
Old 22nd December 2016
  #21
Registered User
 

Several Line arrays together can make a great Pointsource.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchy15 View Post
What do you mean with "break frequency"?

The longer the array, the lower the frequency at which it will start behaving like a line source, that's true. Also, the longer the array, the stronger the line-source effect will be on frequency X compared to a shorter array.
Keep in mind that a line array only behaves as a line array for a certain distance, after which it'll be just another point source. This is called the critical distance.

Dutchy
You nearly there Dutchy, you just go a few terms mixed up. The critical distance actually referes to the distance at which a sound system and the caused room reverb are at the same volume. It has nothing to do with line arrays in that sense.
What you guys talk about is the effective length of a line array
This is actually determined by the wavelength.
So for example to have a Line Array at 100Hz you would need a minimum length of Array of 3.4meters. Because that is the wavelenght of 100hz. Now to make this work for distance you would need it even longer. That doesnt mean a shorter array does not work. It just drops SPL quicker over distance. Line Array theory is a little more complex then just saying this is a line array or not.
Old 22nd December 2016
  #22
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Dutchy15's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by germanator View Post
Several Line arrays together can make a great Pointsource.



You nearly there Dutchy, you just go a few terms mixed up. The critical distance actually referes to the distance at which a sound system and the caused room reverb are at the same volume. It has nothing to do with line arrays in that sense.
What you guys talk about is the effective length of a line array
This is actually determined by the wavelength.
So for example to have a Line Array at 100Hz you would need a minimum length of Array of 3.4meters. Because that is the wavelenght of 100hz. Now to make this work for distance you would need it even longer. That doesnt mean a shorter array does not work. It just drops SPL quicker over distance. Line Array theory is a little more complex then just saying this is a line array or not.

Critical distance is indeed the distance from the source at which the diffuse sound ("room sound") is equally loud as the direct sound. However, it can also be used to describe the distance at which a line source starts behaving as a point source:




Dutchy
Old 22nd December 2016
  #23
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edva's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by germanator View Post
So for example to have a Line Array at 100Hz you would need a minimum length of Array of 3.4meters. Because that is the wavelenght of 100hz.
I'm sure everyone on this thread already knows, but in case someone not well versed in line arrays reads this thread, this does not mean the array is not capable of producing low frequencies if the array is not long enough. It means the low frequencies will not be pattern-controlled by an array which is too short for the frequency in question. i.e. even a single box from an array may be capable of reproducing a 100cps tone, or even lower, but, the sound will radiate in "all directions" (basically), and will not have much "throw". Once the array gets long enough, the sound will become "focused" and behave according to the intended design parameters of the array. Hope that makes sense. Good luck.

Last edited by edva; 22nd December 2016 at 04:16 PM.. Reason: +
Old 22nd December 2016
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchy15 View Post
And here we go. The QSC KLA12 is NOT A LINE-ARRAY! It's a vertical constant curvature array system
No sh|t Sherlock. The OP says its a decision between a point source and line array. Safe bet it's just one or two boxes a side, and in such a formation the difference between line array and CC array speakers is virtually zero. Perhaps if you finish reading my post you'll see that's the narrow application I was referring to, "family friendly volumes" to large flat areas.

Any box that exhibits line array properties is going to be called a line array box. When a situation requires the distinction to be made between a constant curvature array and a true line array, people aren't going to refuse to believe they have different properties just because they're casually called the same thing on web forums. Mic companies fail to make the distinction between electret condensers and proper condensers all the time too, same slurring of terms. If you think I'm going to type out "vertical constant curvature array" every time I mention KLA's you're going to be perpetually disappointed. The KLA acronym is literally "K-series Line Array".
Old 23rd December 2016
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germanator View Post
Several Line arrays together can make a great Pointsource.
Could you explain what you mean with that?
Old 23rd December 2016
  #26
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I never understand why (some) people on this forum get bent out of shape about using the correct terminology, especially since this makes understanding and communication so much easier.

By not using the correct terminology we only mis inform and confuse the people we try to help.
Old 23rd December 2016
  #27
Registered User
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetam View Post
Could you explain what you mean with that?
It should say Line array elements. Now, several Line array elements together could potentially still be short enough to not exhibit Line Array criteria, mainly 3db level loss per doubling of distance as opposed to 6db level loss per doubling of distance.
So as an example .
2 Elements of most Systems will have LA criteria fulfilled in only very high frequencies and only for a very short distance. At most other distances and frequencies that system will behave identical to a Point Source system.
Unlike two boxes of a Point-source System these will exhibit no or very little comb filtering and much better coupling of individual drivers.
However as per nature they will have potentially a much reduced coverage area.
What I was trying to say was is: If two Elements of LA cover an area sufficiently they will do this better then a cluster of two Point Sources, because they have less interference.
If the coverage area however is bigger then two Elements of LA can do, you either need more elements or you better off with a point source system.

In order to make a statement like Point Source is often better the Line Array one needs to understand what it exactly is a Line Array does and what not.
Line Array Boxes are Speaker Cabinets too you know


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchy
Critical distance is indeed the distance from the source at which the diffuse sound ("room sound") is equally loud as the direct sound. However, it can also be used to describe the distance at which a line source starts behaving as a point source:
Dutchy
Actually there is no such distance in Line Arrays, as they do this Frequency Dependant. So for Example a Line Array could in 30 Meter distance still be a Line Array from 1000Hz to 20000Hz but at 900Hz and below it would already be behaving like a Point-Source. This depends on Frequency and Distance.
There is no One-single point from a Line Array where that happens.

The electro acoustical term critical distance describes a fixed point in the room where the Roomreverb (RT60) has the same Volume over the entire Bandwidth of the Signal as the Speaker Source.
For Line Arrays the common term here is Effective Length. You could describe it as being within the effective length of a Line Array at a certain Bandwidth.
As an Example: "At 30 meters distance I am still within the effective length of the low mids"
Old 23rd December 2016
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germanator View Post
It should say Line array elements. Now, several Line array elements together could potentially still be short enough to not exhibit Line Array criteria, mainly 3db level loss per doubling of distance as opposed to 6db level loss per doubling of distance.
So as an example .
2 Elements of most Systems will have LA criteria fulfilled in only very high frequencies and only for a very short distance. At most other distances and frequencies that system will behave identical to a Point Source system.
Unlike two boxes of a Point-source System these will exhibit no or very little comb filtering and much better coupling of individual drivers.
However as per nature they will have potentially a much reduced coverage area.
What I was trying to say was is: If two Elements of LA cover an area sufficiently they will do this better then a cluster of two Point Sources, because they have less interference.
If the coverage area however is bigger then two Elements of LA can do, you either need more elements or you better off with a point source system.

In order to make a statement like Point Source is often better the Line Array one needs to understand what it exactly is a Line Array does and what not.
Line Array Boxes are Speaker Cabinets too you know
Oh, yes, I've often used line array elements as point sources with great results.
I thought that you meant several line arrays together at first, which certainly wouldn't work as a point source.
We can nitpick about Fraunhofer and Fresnel regions, but in reality a good line array module (with proper processing) will still sound better than an average point source speaker.
Higher directionality at high frequencies is often somewhat compensated by air absorption and filters can be used to reduce the amount of high frequencies on the lower modules of a short array.
Old 23rd December 2016
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germanator View Post
Unlike two boxes of a Point-source System these will exhibit no or very little comb filtering and much better coupling of individual drivers.
However as per nature they will have potentially a much reduced coverage area.
What I was trying to say was is: If two Elements of LA cover an area sufficiently they will do this better then a cluster of two Point Sources, because they have less interference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetam View Post
We can nitpick about Fraunhofer and Fresnel regions, but in reality a good line array module (with proper processing) will still sound better than an average point source speaker.
You guys will need to explain these statements. I have done extensive tests on systems that can either be arrayed horizontally or vertically and have never heard the 'better' than sound that you guys are talking about.

I have also done tests comparing L'Acoustics ARCS to dv dosc boxes, Mater CQ and Milo boxes and came to the conclusion that when the application calls for a point-source system, a point-source system will always work better than line-array boxes posing as point-source boxes. I'll be willing to hear any technical explanation behind your statements however.
Old 23rd December 2016
  #30
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Originally Posted by Samc View Post

I have also done tests comparing L'Acoustics ARCS to dv dosc boxes, Mater CQ and Milo boxes and came to the conclusion that when the application calls for a point-source system, a point-source system will always work better than line-array boxes posing as point-source boxes.
In practice, the better box wins.
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