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Live Shows, why so loud and too much bass
Old 4 weeks ago
  #541
Lives for gear
 

maybe i'm in a bad mood...

Quote:
Originally Posted by norfolk martin View Post
I do wonder how that happened. In about '74 in the UK, the price to see a level one band like, say Purple/Yes/Zep etc., was about $5 to $10 at the absolute most.

$25-$50 in inflation adjusted dollars. As a fifteen year old, I could buy a concert ticket from what I made at my Saturday job fixing toasters and vaccum cleaners.

As late as '82 I was seeing bands like XTC, U2 etc. for $5. Then, a few years later, tickets were suddenly $25, and just kept going.
seems to correspond to the situation around here (switzerland); prices then were not much higher, considering the fact that this tiny spot on earth has been a very rich country (and expensive to live in) for many many years and there never was much of a music scene (as in other and much larger countries/cities)...

the three ''concert agencies' at the time were run by freaks who were happy just to be around some of the big names, the dozen of hells angels (!) were responsible for 'security' (!) (no kidding, but don't even think of them to be anywhere near other chapters!) and were happy with a few sixpacks of beer, promotion was done by volunteers etc. - only a few years later (by the late eighties/early nineties), things started to become 'professional', regulation of all sorts started kicking in.

by then, record companies were possibly sick of spending money on tours (if they weren't already in a state of decline), bands and their managements as well (and started taking over from record companies); biggest change though was that sponsors discovered our field!

___


what really bugs me though is that ever since event managers entered the scene, things went downhill: seriously, they may have a clue on how to get sponsors on board but they are absolutely uselss when it comes to fees or any other revelant topic of our 'business'!

together with too much money coming from big corporations/companies and wealthy who rather sink money in cultural activities (which is noble) than avoiding taxes otherwise (which is less noble), this led to a toxic local situation with stratospheric ticket prices: any somewhat known band can ask for almost any fee - and will get it! i'm not joking, i know some of the figures! let me tell you that in switzerland (and especially in basel), we have the most stupid event managers/promotors/bookers worldwide!

a friend of mine flew to london last year to see/hear eric clapton at the royal albert hall (?): although i'm sure tickets were crazy expensive there too, the tickets, flying over and staying in a decent hotel for two nights was still less expensive than going to a show in the next bigger city...

need another example? when i'm hanging out in the backstage area on festivals, young girls which could be my (grand) children watch for an opportunity to talk to anybody in a black t-shirt, prostituting themselves if only they could make it to the shows!! in one if the richest counties in the world! - to know at the same time that a handful of bands for huge money play at private parties of some oligarchs who are on the un sanctions list makes a rather bad match...

___


all of this (and that i see no point in driving around trucks full of gear although when there are lots of options to get top gear every 100km) made me (mostly) stop touring and refrain from being part of big productions - it's NOT that i couldn't (the world's largest provider of live sr gear is literally around the corner and i've made my name known well enough that i could get regular work), i don't WANT to be part of it anymore!

___


maybe this explains a bit why i'm wondering what the future will hold: not for me personally but for the younger (and some older) folks, especially for those living on the edge as i cannot see how they can participate in something which i'm considering to be a truly amazing source of inspiration, consolation and joy: (live) music!

Last edited by deedeeyeah; 4 weeks ago at 06:47 PM.. Reason: edited three times
Old 3 weeks ago
  #542
I end up posting this every few months when similar points are made across the web.
If you reduce artist income to near zero from record sales, they are going to inevitably find ways of replacing that income.
In the 80's and 90's when I toured, many tours lost money, and tours were seen as a second yearly promotion for your album. In other words, you were on the road for 6 to 9 months every second or third year.
Now people are permanently on the road.
Productions are bigger and cost more money, but also, hard working road weary artists are looking for any way to make more money from the effort.
** The public were never going to get free music from musicians working every day for nothing**
So that has happened with recordings by and large, but the public are paying more and more to experience the music live.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #543
Lives for gear
 

dunno how much touring you do these days but from a production's point of view, there's less money in touring these days as prices battle became ruinous: sending out gear for a month makes you the same amount of money you got for week a few years ago!

can't relate to productions getting much bigger either: smaller gear outputs far more spl than ever and some leading sr companies were able to shrink truck space by half! they had to or would be out of business...

i wouldn't complain much if crazy money spent on touring would end up in the hands of the musicians: after all, they enable us to participate in this business but except for some big names, that's not the case as there are too many profiteers in between!
Old 3 weeks ago
  #544
You're talking Switzerland right?

I'm talking global tours (Pink, U2, Coldplay, Clapton, McCartney, Stones) where they use their own gear and have a much bigger crew and more gear than the average 20 years ago.
Of course medium and small artists have had to cut back massively - skeleton crews and rental gear for everything.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #545
Lives for gear
 

yes, switzerland - but you're missing the point: clair global has their main european office in switzerland and is outfitting all the big boys from here, sometimes with a little bit help from lititz: stones, u2, fleetwood mac etc.

compare clair's old i5 (trashed by now) to their newer co12 and you know what i'm talking about...

and no, except for pink floyd and prince at certain times, there were and are very few major artist who own their gear. and in case of the stones, u2 and pink, your claim is simply false! i recently posted a pic with some of the amp racks which went out with the stones, see my post #524 - they are not coming out of keith richard's garage...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #546
I'm not into PA's.
It's absolutely clear that big name acts rarely toured in the 80's. Maybe once every three to five years. Now they are touring every year - McCartney, Fleetwood Mac, Rod Stewart etc.
My question to you is are they doing that for fun, on a shoestring? Or are they doing it because it's bringing in big income they would have previously earned from record sales, while staying at home.
Same in electronic music.....
So called 'mid-level' electronic artists/DJ's are commanding $5,000 for one appearance. The bigger names, much, much more.
In the 80's and 90's they weren't earning those fees and they probably released more records than appeared live.
In the end, the customer pays - with much more expensive ticket prices, while yes, they can hear recordings for free on Spotify, Youtube, Apple Music etc....
Old 3 weeks ago
  #547
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
and no, except for pink floyd and prince at certain times, there were and are very few major artist who own their gear. and in case of the stones, u2 and pink, your claim is simply false! (i recently posted a pic of the amp racks which went out with the stones in this forum)
Hmm, I've been the drummer on major tours. Yes, we owned all our guitars, drums, keyboards, amps etc. Yes, the lights and PA were always rented.
**I'm not exclusively discussing PA systems or lights.**
I'm telling you people are trucking loads of gear around and making a lot of money, when they usually weren't 20+ years ago.
The smaller bands are renting almost everything (except guitars and a snare drum). But then they probably always did.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #548
Lives for gear
 

i assumed we were not talking backline here... - of course this (mostly) belongs to the artists (if not to a backline company or gets provided from manufacturers/distributors to please their endorsees)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #549
Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
i assumed we were not talking backline here... -
I posted about why tickets were more expensive than 20 years ago.
Every part of the show impacts on the ticket price, including (importantly) the artist's wish to make money - as opposed to break even or lose in order to promote their latest release.

It's absolutely punishing to be on the road so much, plus the impact on relationships and family.
Artists did it less frequently, as an obligation to promote their records. Since Napster at al, artists are doing it to make a living - and in some cases make a lot of income.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #550
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisso View Post
I posted about why tickets were more expensive than 20 years ago.
Every part of the show impacts on the ticket price, including (importantly) the artist's wish to make money - as opposed to break even or lose in order to promote their latest release.

It's absolutely punishing to be on the road so much, plus the impact on relationships and family.
Artists did it less frequently, as an obligation to promote their records. Since Napster at al, artists are doing it to make a living - and in some cases make a lot of income.
...and i provided some details of how other parts of our business get affected by current trends - bottom line remains though that the audience has to pay too much money these days and that too much money gets burnt and/or lands in the wrong places imo: too much money for gear sometimes, too much for trucks/flights/hotels, too much for managements, bookers, promotors, agencies, ticket sellers etc.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #551
Where the audience has saved on their listening costs from fee streaming, they are now paying a lot more for their live shows.
In my experience, the concert income is going to the bigger artists in truck loads.
Even medium size artists are making a good profit from touring, which was rarely the case in the 70's and 80's.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #552
Lives for gear
 

Almost all the bands I’m touring with these days are earning more money than before from touring and they are selling their CDs on the road too, but there are more hands in their pockets too in some cases.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #553
Lives for gear
 
kgveteran's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hbphotoav View Post
Pro Sound News has just such a feature every month, covering 10 "top" tours, with venue, gear description (mains, monitors, frontline/backline) and personnel. It, and Mix Magazine (more studio-focused) are two "must reads" for me each month. Lots of ads and advocacy, but lots of info as well.

https://www.prosoundnetwork.com

https://www.mixonline.com

HB
TY So much i will check that out :0)
Old 3 weeks ago
  #554
Lives for gear
 
kgveteran's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deedeeyeah View Post
a couple of things come to mind:
- not all elder folks can afford those very expensive tickets! (i'm having the habit of giving my free tickets to some oldie fans waiting in front of the venue/stadium)
- ticket prices went ballistic: i remember paying chf 18.50 (eighteen and a half swiss francs!) and later 24.50 for bands like led zeppelin, bob marley, boston, queen, genesis, the who, jeff beck, mahavishnu orchestra, weather report etc.
- the large ticket seller these days are making too much money/drive up costs for everyone involved/got way too powerful imo
- i'm wondering what will happen when these rockosaur bands no longer exist: will their audience turn to (slightly) younger bands or will they stay home?
- will any younger bands become as big and last for as long?
Saw TheStruts last nite in Buffalo, i hope they continue to climb !!!!! They play some fun music
Old 3 weeks ago
  #555
Lives for gear
 
kgveteran's Avatar
 

BTW, my 1982 Genesis ticket was $11.50

In 1980 JonBonham sadly past away before me and my friends could see LedZeppelin, tickets $15.00
Old 3 weeks ago
  #556
Lives for gear
 
cjogo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
BTW, my 1982 Genesis ticket was $11.50

In 1980 JonBonham sadly past away before me and my friends could see LedZeppelin, tickets $15.00
Joe Walsh /James Gang and countless of bands were between $3.50 and 7.50 in the 60's...

I think ZEP at the KINETIC PLAYGROUND was around $9 for the two of us >> in 1969

Last edited by cjogo; 3 weeks ago at 06:48 AM..
Old 3 weeks ago
  #557
Lives for gear
 

In 1960 the average house in the USA cost just over $11,000...inflation happens. People don’t pay the same to a load of bread or gasoline today as they did when they were kids. Did they really expect to pay the same to see a concert...especially since they also expect more...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #558
Lives for gear
 
cjogo's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
In 1960 the average house in the USA cost just over $11,000...inflation happens. People don’t pay the same to a load of bread or gasoline today as they did when they were kids. Did they really expect to pay the same to see a concert...especially since they also expect more...
When I first started working --- I made at tops >> .95c an hour ...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #559
Lives for gear
 
hbphotoav's Avatar
 

Need I say more...? Elton, with Steely Dan opening, Cotton Bowl, 1973. $4.50; $5.50; $6.50.
Attached Thumbnails
Live Shows, why so loud and too much bass-elton-dallas-poster.jpeg  
Old 3 weeks ago
  #560
In the 70's and 80's popular artists were making a huge amount from record sales.
So....times change.
Old 1 week ago
  #561
Gear Addict
 
springer's Avatar
 

Caught Boz Scaggs (his kick drum and bass anyways) last night in a great venue that has so much aural promise but not in the hands of a bad sound person... oh well. I like to support artists but if I am continually disappointed in the sound, then I will stop, as I simply find it annoying to flush that kind of money down the drain. I suspect many feel that same way I do...
With the amount of great sounding gear available post 1978, "bad sound" should not even be an issue. I remember going to Reunion Arena (Dallas) which is a big ole barn to see Peter Gabriel. We were in the upper deck and it sounded like I was in front of a great stereo system in my living room.

Like many things I see in life, I think this again comes down to lack of apprentice/mentor relationships.
Old 1 week ago
  #562
Lives for gear
 

on a certain level of production, there is no more reason for bad sound these days: if it sounds bad, the foh engineer is not up to his/her task!
Old 1 week ago
  #563
Lives for gear
 
edva's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by springer View Post
Caught Boz Scaggs (his kick drum and bass anyways) last night in a great venue that has so much aural promise but not in the hands of a bad sound person... oh well. I like to support artists but if I am continually disappointed in the sound, then I will stop, as I simply find it annoying to flush that kind of money down the drain. I suspect many feel that same way I do...
Interesting. The last couple of times I saw him the sound was excellent. That was a couple of years ago though.
Old 1 week ago
  #564
Lives for gear
 
norfolk martin's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
In 1960 the average house in the USA cost just over $11,000...inflation happens. People don’t pay the same to a load of bread or gasoline today as they did when they were kids. Did they really expect to pay the same to see a concert...especially since they also expect more...
Quite true, but, in an article last month on the Metallica ticket re-seller controversy, the Economist noted that concert ticket prices increased by 190% between 1996 and 2018, compared with 59% for overall consumer prices.

I don't think all of that is accounted for by more expensive staging.
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