The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Live Shows, why so loud and too much bass Effects Pedals, Units & Accessories
Old 24th June 2018
  #421
Lives for gear
 

Most of the really awful and annoying mixes I’ve heard was not caused by poor system setup...they were simply the result of bad mix decisions in my opinion.
Old 24th June 2018
  #422
Lives for gear
 
hbphotoav's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
The important thing is that you know the material you’re listen to well. My voice with my mic can usually tell me a lot about a system in a matter of minutes, because I know my voice better than any song/recording.
Indeed. The core tunes have been on the burned CD Walkman disks (mid-90s) and iPod (since 2004 or so). It's a good thing I like them... otherwise, I'd be sick to death of them by now.

Next I need to find a well-produced cut I can stand to listen to repeatedly that has a great "bass drop" in it. Both drummers have used triggers to do that effect live...

Ah, well...

HB
Old 30th June 2018
  #423
Gear Addict
 
kgveteran's Avatar
 

Anyone gonna be in Saratoga NY for Tedeski/Trucks on the 3rd July, could be cool to compare notes walk around, give a listen......
Old 30th June 2018
  #424
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbphotoav View Post
For initial tuning of a new system and room, or my system to a room (small rig... events from 200-1,000 peeps) I use a bunch of different .AIFF cuts of songs I know well... each "demonstrating" sounds in different "spaces" within the mixes.
That's cool if you are operating in bigger spaces (1000 people venue is one of those) because you don't have problems with noise coming from stage aka. the guitar player who really loves his one million watt amp :D
Old 1st July 2018
  #425
Lives for gear
 
hbphotoav's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by egoless View Post
That's cool if you are operating in bigger spaces (1000 people venue is one of those) because you don't have problems with noise coming from stage aka. the guitar player who really loves his one million watt amp :D
That's the point of setting up the system before soundcheck... if the system is "right" in the room, and I then pay attention to what the actual sounds are like during soundcheck (offstage near the E Gtr amps, onstage a bit listening to the entire kit... like that) then the mix is well on the way. All this presupposes a properly set up and tuned system to begin with. Since 80% of my gigs are on my system, it works a treat.

The right mics, through a decent desk and an excellent PA, and a band of playas is a joy.

One old guy's opinion.

HB
Old 1st July 2018
  #426
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbphotoav View Post
That's the point of setting up the system before soundcheck... if the system is "right" in the room, and I then pay attention to what the actual sounds are like during soundcheck (offstage near the E Gtr amps, onstage a bit listening to the entire kit... like that) then the mix is well on the way. All this presupposes a properly set up and tuned system to begin with. Since 80% of my gigs are on my system, it works a treat.

The right mics, through a decent desk and an excellent PA, and a band of playas is a joy.

One old guy's opinion.

HB
Yeah I get you, from my experience in small spaces (200 people) the bleed from stage dictates the loudness of the overall mix. Sometimes it's so bad than even just guitar from stage overpowers the vocals / drums in the PA and then you try to explain this to the guitar player, often unsuccessfully and you end up in the "turn the rest in the PA up" bleeding ears hellhole **** mix or a **** mix where u can hear only the guitar... :/ :D
Old 1st July 2018
  #427
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hbphotoav View Post
That's the point of setting up the system before soundcheck... if the system is "right" in the room, and I then pay attention to what the actual sounds are like during soundcheck (offstage near the E Gtr amps, onstage a bit listening to the entire kit... like that) then the mix is well on the way. All this presupposes a properly set up and tuned system to begin with. Since 80% of my gigs are on my system, it works a treat.

The right mics, through a decent desk and an excellent PA, and a band of playas is a joy.

One old guy's opinion.

HB
Exactly....a lot of mixers think good mixing is only about ‘mixing’, (‘tricks’ and magic tools) they don’t realize it’s about the setup and the playing.

So instead of trying to complement what the musicians are doing on stage, they instead go to war with them hell bent on trying to produce their version of a good mix.
Old 5th July 2018
  #428
Gear Addict
 
kgveteran's Avatar
 

Saw Tedeschi/Trucks Saratoga Springs NY this past tuesday, not 100% my cup of tea, but the sound was nothing less than amazing. There was two linearrays bunch of subs, and crystal clear. Susan’s voice came through without a single shrill, she has a bottom end to her voice that was captured real well, the two drummers were also well mixed in, they were easily distinguished, the bass player tucked away physically, but evident. Trucks’ guitar work was sick, the dude just plain rules that instrument, his guitar was well placed and not Over baked, but real powerful.....

They are a first rate band, truly pro’s. The FOH F’n knocked it out of the park, no more exuses at SPAC ! I walked all over in the shell, felt like nothing was changing, they deserve a mention if you know who they, there were two guys
Old 5th July 2018
  #429
Lives for gear
 
hbphotoav's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
Saw Tedeschi/Trucks Saratoga Springs NY this past tuesday, not 100% my cup of tea, but the sound was nothing less than amazing. There was two linearrays bunch of subs, and crystal clear. Susan’s voice came through without a single shrill, she has a bottom end to her voice that was captured real well, the two drummers were also well mixed in, they were easily distinguished, the bass player tucked away physically, but evident. Trucks’ guitar work was sick, the dude just plain rules that instrument, his guitar was well placed and not Over baked, but real powerful.....

They are a first rate band, truly pro’s. The FOH F’n knocked it out of the park, no more exuses at SPAC ! I walked all over in the shell, felt like nothing was changing, they deserve a mention if you know who they, there were two guys
Just had a similar report from a soundie friend of mine from a TTB show in Charleston SC last weekend. His word was "stellar" sound... and he'd know.
Old 6th July 2018
  #430
Gear Addict
 
kgveteran's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hbphotoav View Post
Just had a similar report from a soundie friend of mine from a TTB show in Charleston SC last weekend. His word was "stellar" sound... and he'd know.
Any advice on how to get a quick interview of the pa arrays, subs, mixing board, thoughts on the show. It would be nice to have a little more info at the shows i see
Old 6th July 2018
  #431
Lives for gear
 
mojo filters's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
Any advice on how to get a quick interview of the pa arrays, subs, mixing board, thoughts on the show. It would be nice to have a little more info at the shows i see
I suspect any answers obtained would be rather wooden
Old 6th July 2018
  #432
Lives for gear
 
loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo filters View Post
I suspect any answers obtained would be rather wooden
Then the people you talk to are jerks. I'd tell anyone who asked what we have in our venue, but hardly anyone cares. Compliments gladly accepted, but nobody asks beyond "Are those Meyers up there?" (the ones with the Meyers badge on them, of course).Other engineers can see at a glance what we are using.
Or find an article in the MIX?

The wooden answer in our venue is, all the wood you see is recycled from the old roof and ceiling of the garage that used to be here... milled and fireproofed, with shredded denim in the cracks for sound absorption.
Old 6th July 2018
  #433
Gear Addict
 
kgveteran's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo filters View Post
I suspect any answers obtained would be rather wooden
Wooden ?
Old 6th July 2018
  #434
Lives for gear
 
mojo filters's Avatar
 

Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
Wooden ?
Err...I think my sarcasm went slightly awry! As yet I've not heard of Alexa going pro


Carry on... [/coat already fetched]
Old 6th July 2018
  #435
Lives for gear
 
mojo filters's Avatar
 

Misplaced attempt at a bad joke, sorry!

Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
Then the people you talk to are jerks. I'd tell anyone who asked what we have in our venue, but hardly anyone cares. Compliments gladly accepted, but nobody asks beyond "Are those Meyers up there?" (the ones with the Meyers badge on them, of course).Other engineers can see at a glance what we are using.
Or find an article in the MIX?

The wooden answer in our venue is, all the wood you see is recycled from the old roof and ceiling of the garage that used to be here... milled and fireproofed, with shredded denim in the cracks for sound absorption.
You're lucky your punters even recognise a Meyer badge...

I generally get "is that your microphone?" (pointing at mic-less mixing desk) or "how many Watts are those amps?" (pointing at passive loudspeakers).
Old 6th July 2018
  #436
Gear Addict
 
kgveteran's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo filters View Post
Misplaced attempt at a bad joke, sorry!



You're lucky your punters even recognise a Meyer badge...

I generally get "is that your microphone?" (pointing at mic-less mixing desk) or "how many Watts are those amps?" (pointing at passive loudspeakers).
I guess i will politely ask about the system as a whole. From the mains/subs amps and what board they mix with, how long they have been FOH and feel the room out. I seem to care more about boring mundane equipment than some entertainer, in no way is it a chance to meet the band. My biggest mystery is power/electricity ! Who hooks it up, how is everything powered.... how much is at hand, 110/220/480 ?????? I think these people are so tired of all this they just couldnt care less to answer stupid questions like this
Old 6th July 2018
  #437
Lives for gear
 
Crazy4Jazz's Avatar
 

Saw Herbie Hancock in the Beacon Theater about a year ago. Terrible concert not because of the players but because of the sound quality. Seats were in the orchestra on the left facing the stage. Was a giant sub maybe 10-15 yards in front of me. Could not distinguish anything the bass player played, was just a loud sort of non pitched rumble all night. Between the kick drum and the bass almost the rest of the sound was blotted out. Horrible.
Old 6th July 2018
  #438
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
Any advice on how to get a quick interview of the pa arrays, subs, mixing board, thoughts on the show. It would be nice to have a little more info at the shows i see
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo filters View Post
I suspect any answers obtained would be rather wooden
Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
Then the people you talk to are jerks. I'd tell anyone who asked what we have in our venue, but hardly anyone cares. Compliments gladly accepted, but nobody asks beyond "Are those Meyers up there?" (the ones with the Meyers badge on them, of course).Other engineers can see at a glance what we are using.
Or find an article in the MIX?

The wooden answer in our venue is, all the wood you see is recycled from the old roof and ceiling of the garage that used to be here... milled and fireproofed, with shredded denim in the cracks for sound absorption.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
I guess i will politely ask about the system as a whole. From the mains/subs amps and what board they mix with, how long they have been FOH and feel the room out. I seem to care more about boring mundane equipment than some entertainer, in no way is it a chance to meet the band. My biggest mystery is power/electricity ! Who hooks it up, how is everything powered.... how much is at hand, 110/220/480 ?????? I think these people are so tired of all this they just couldnt care less to answer stupid questions like this
It’s easy to call people “jerks” or say they “couldn’t care less” when you don’t know what their day has been like or how much work they still have to do and how much time they have to do it in.

When you’re on tour you don’t always have the luxury of being able to talk shop with people, you may have a lot of expensive equipment to take care of and time might be short to get on the transport. The rest of the tour party will not want to stand around and wait while you shoot the breeze. I would love to talk about the gear most times too, but if I barely have enough time to do all I have to do at the venue after the show, get to the hotel for a quick shower so I can be on the bus on time for an overnight drive or get to the airport to catch a flight, all while being half asleep, my answers are going to be “wooden”.

If I’m also the road manager you might not get any answers at all except a hurried, I can’t talk to you now...my responsibilities to the band and crew comes first and a quick second.
Old 7th July 2018
  #439
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
Any advice on how to get a quick interview of the pa arrays, subs, mixing board, thoughts on the show. It would be nice to have a little more info at the shows i see
Keep in mind that some bands make their crew sign an NDA which specifically forbids them from talking about the specifics of their work with the band. In a recent video interview the long time mixer of world famous band couldn't give certain information regarding the specifications of the PA because the loudspeaker manufacturer and the SD for the show didn't/wouldn't give him that info. So don't be too surprised when answers (to certain questions) are slow in coming.
Old 7th July 2018
  #440
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy4Jazz View Post
Seats were in the orchestra on the left facing the stage. Was a giant sub maybe 10-15 yards in front of me. Could not distinguish anything the bass player played, was just a loud sort of non pitched rumble all night. Between the kick drum and the bass almost the rest of the sound was blotted out. Horrible.
I had a woman complain to me about the sound of the mix once, she said it was too "bassy" and she and her friends couldn't hear the rest of the band well. Turns out they left their seats and were dancing right in front of a sub-woofer stack past the side of the stage. None of the tops were aimed in that particular corner of the room because nobody should be standing in that area.

In another anecdote a guy sent an email to the band saying he couldn't hear the singer's voice clearly when they played his city. Turned out he was a vendor selling merch. next to the bar in another room! of course I was not going to modify the mix to accommodate these people. Not saying this is the case in this particular situation, but when you sit directly in front of a giant subwoofer and out of the direct coverage zone of the top loudspeakers that carry the details of the mix, I don't know that you can expect the same mix as the people sitting in the prime seating location. There are too many variables at play to just jump to conclusions when the sound in your location is not perfect...I'm sure that if we search hard enough we can find people at the TTB show who didn't think the sound was all that great.
Old 7th July 2018
  #441
Gear Addict
 
kgveteran's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
It’s easy to call people “jerks” or say they “couldn’t care less” when you don’t know what their day has been like or how much work they still have to do and how much time they have to do it in.

When you’re on tour you don’t always have the luxury of being able to talk shop with people, you may have a lot of expensive equipment to take care of and time might be short to get on the transport. The rest of the tour party will not want to stand around and wait while you shoot the breeze. I would love to talk about the gear most times too, but if I barely have enough time to do all I have to do at the venue after the show, get to the hotel for a quick shower so I can be on the bus on time for an overnight drive or get to the airport to catch a flight, all while being half asleep, my answers are going to be “wooden”.

If I’m also the road manager you might not get any answers at all except a hurried, I can’t talk to you now...my responsibilities to the band and crew comes first and a quick second.
Always a good level reply SamC ! Headed up to see FooFighters in Toronto RogersCenter, we saw U2 there last year, it was an amazing show with the Lumineers opening.

WTS, does the opening band get the whole sound rig, openers often sound like they dont.....
Old 12th July 2018
  #442
Gear Addict
 
kgveteran's Avatar
 

The roof is staying on at RogersCenter in Toronto, they flew the (rear) arrays, anyone care to explain their purpose, they look like they will hit the upper nose bleeds.
U2 had the same (rears) but they were attached to a tower so to speak, which meant the roof could swing out of the way.

Using a free app and my iphone8 i measured 113db
Old 13th July 2018
  #443
Lives for gear
 
loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo filters View Post
You're lucky your punters even recognise a Meyer badge...

I generally get "is that your microphone?" (pointing at mic-less mixing desk) or "how many Watts are those amps?" (pointing at passive loudspeakers).

In Berkeley CA most people know who Meyer is, they are neighbors. We don't let stupid people buy tickets, or talk to the sound person! :-) The dumbest things I hear from an audient is "Wow, that's quite a board!"

Guess I just work with a better class of music... no rock rap or hipop.
Old 14th July 2018
  #444
Gear Addict
 
kgveteran's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
In Berkeley CA most people know who Meyer is, they are neighbors. We don't let stupid people buy tickets, or talk to the sound person! :-) The dumbest things I hear from an audient is "Wow, that's quite a board!"

Guess I just work with a better class of music... no rock rap or hipop.
What do you do in this business
Old 14th July 2018
  #445
Lives for gear
 
loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
What do you do in this business
Jazz, folk, Singer/songwriter, Middle Eastern, Latin, jam bands, even some country. It seems to be a completely different world from the rockers that dominate this forum! Also kirtan, Indian, Native American, and so on.

Calendar | Freight & Salvage

I also do a lot of spoken word, radio interviews, audiobooks, etc.
Old 15th July 2018
  #446
Gear Addict
 
kgveteran's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
Jazz, folk, Singer/songwriter, Middle Eastern, Latin, jam bands, even some country. It seems to be a completely different world from the rockers that dominate this forum! Also kirtan, Indian, Native American, and so on.

Calendar | Freight & Salvage

I also do a lot of spoken word, radio interviews, audiobooks, etc.
In the us
Old 30th September 2018
  #447
Gear Addict
 
kgveteran's Avatar
 

The Struts !!!!!!!

Recently saw a live show at the OperaHouse in the northeast area of Toronto, i believe its called LeslieVille.
We saw the “Struts” at a SoldOut show of 950 people.
I walked in to see a small section of line array sitting on each corner of the stage, kinda like i remember of the 70’s stacked days. The guys doing FOH duty wete young and busy, i didnt bug em.
The sound measured on my crappy iphone was between 109-117db, F’n loud and clear, the vocals were perfect, each instrument could easily be heard. The drumms were perfect, clear, great impact and no MUD, we stood the whole night in front of the main board.
If anyone knows these guys please give them a salute, i never once went for my earplugs once, I regained hearing the next morning.

I believe this is the house system, from the tech section of the main website VENUE TECH | The Opera House
Old 30th September 2018
  #448
Lives for gear
 
loujudson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post
we stood the whole night in front of the main board.
If anyone knows these guys please give them a salute, i never once went for my earplugs once, I regained hearing the next morning.

I believe this is the house system, from the tech section of the main website VENUE TECH | The Opera House
I can assure you that you did not regain ALL of your hearing, all night at those levels.

This ia a problem of youthful actions. See what you can hear when you reach 50.
Old 30th September 2018
  #449
Gear Addict
 
kgveteran's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by loujudson View Post
I can assure you that you did not regain ALL of your hearing, all night at those levels.

This ia a problem of youthful actions. See what you can hear when you reach 50.
Im 55, i have a pretty steep drop after 14khz, i have to admit i have a problem not using my earplugs if there’s no crushing distortion or deep mud in the bass, the subs were magic.

I will use my earplugs next time, you are right, those levels for that long are dangerous :0/
Old 4th October 2018
  #450
Lives for gear
 

Loujudson, I am with you brother but my concern is we are considered "old & in the way" by most of the future generation of folks processing sound. The ability to appreciate dynamic range, the third rail of music, requires exposure to more than saturated bass and screaming, distorted guitar cabs. The reality is music education in our public schools has been on a descending direction for more than 35 years and even faith based children's choirs are usually replaced with rock & roll praise bands featuring 7 / 11 simple entry level lyrics.

I spent more than 40 years producing, performing and delivering sound for Bluegrass Music. 5 years ago I decided to concentrate on the wide open market opportunity to deliver the cherished old classic songs no longer available from conventional media sources. People over 60 are the crowd that has the time and resources, and more importantly the desire, to buy a $20 to $50. ticket to revisit the music of their youth. I work venues from 250 to 700 seats and carry a single Flea 47 next tube mic, a Digigrid/WavesLV1 processing @ FP32/96K and my trusty KV2 sound gear. Sonic quality and providing dynamically a K14 type of DB control is my mantra: not pursuing painful levels of noise. I perform seated with my guitar and vocal providing my favorite selections from 1920 thru 1970 along with the related history and societal importance of my choices. I call it the "Old Gold Review" when I work solo and the "Old Gold Guitar Pull" when I work with my " Blues" pal Charles Welch.
Lou, we are both in unique markets: you live and work in the most cosmopolitan, diverse community that exists in the world today. (that also has the most political ding dongs per square mile) I am in a historically cloistered section of the Blue Ridge Mountains that has a very long tradition of colloquial acoustic music performance. Given the status of most of the pop music world today we both have a lot to be very thankful for!
Hugh
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump