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Digital mixer for live theater. X32 vs Qu-32 vs TF5 vs Impact?
Old 14th February 2016
  #31
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Aisle 6's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mojo filters View Post
If you read carefully they clarify the M32 uses the preamps from the Pro 1 and 2 desks. Since you need to buy the proper DL stageboxes to use the Pro 2 / 2C, they are really just talking about the preamps onboard the Pro 1.

To be honest while I think the desks sound fine, if I never hear anyone mention Midas preamps again it'll still be too soon. They've been blown out of all proportion by people who mostly appear to have had very little experience with them.

Personally I don't care about their supposedly marvelous soft clipping sound - I just don't let my inputs clip. Basically Midas are just boasting about providing a safety buffer for inexperienced users!
I agree with you regarding how overblown the whole "Midas" marketing machine has become.

Although I am curious to find out where they state that the pre amps and faders in the M32 are the same as the Pro series. I know that this was supposed to be the case when the board was in pre release status, but for some reason they let the community perpetuate this myth once it became a product. My tech has had them out and they look completely different. When asked point blank, the importer even said that they are not the same.
Old 15th February 2016
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aisle 6 View Post
I agree with you regarding how overblown the whole "Midas" marketing machine has become.

Although I am curious to find out where they state that the pre amps and faders in the M32 are the same as the Pro series. I know that this was supposed to be the case when the board was in pre release status, but for some reason they let the community perpetuate this myth once it became a product. My tech has had them out and they look completely different. When asked point blank, the importer even said that they are not the same.
I think the entire preamp marketing thing is mostly BS.

Much more important in these digital mixers are the processing algorithms and relative quality of both the channel processing and the efx processing engines.

The mark of a good mixer IMHO is that it sounds good easily.

Given enough variables to tune, and the expertise to tune them, I think that most mixers can sound very good live in the hands of a well qualified sound professional.

The real differentiation seems to be how easily one can get things to sound great.
Old 15th February 2016
  #33
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Aisle 6's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by OneEng View Post
I think the entire preamp marketing thing is mostly BS.

Much more important in these digital mixers are the processing algorithms and relative quality of both the channel processing and the efx processing engines.

The mark of a good mixer IMHO is that it sounds good easily.

Given enough variables to tune, and the expertise to tune them, I think that most mixers can sound very good live in the hands of a well qualified sound professional.

The real differentiation seems to be how easily one can get things to sound great.
I agree 100%. It just grinds my gears to hear all this BS that the M32 has these, "so called" Midas Pro series components, when in fact they do not.
Old 16th February 2016
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aisle 6 View Post
and you know this how? It is this misinformation that Behringer leaks out that is both marketing genius and reprehensible all at the same time.
Got that info straight from one of their own videos stating so. If they lied, than i am wrong.
Old 16th February 2016
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aisle 6 View Post
It sounds like you have spent a lot of time on the Soundcraft and this definitely has influenced your perception.

I use them all very regularly and they all have strengths an weaknesses. It is a matter of getting to know them all intimately and working out what suits the application.

I would argue that the QU is much simpler to use than the SI. Also, there are several other weaknesses with the Soundcraft SI series that make me prefer the QU in general. Having said that, I do not think that the QU is correct for this application and I do think that the Impact has addressed some of my issues with earlier SI models.

In the end, we are all only offering opinions.
Yeah, I do use the soundcraft more than the rest. The x32 2nd most. Just curious, what dont you like about the soundcraft? The big differences i like on the soundcraft over the qu is the scribble strips for starters, so much easier to not have to tape up the board, especially if using more than 1 layer of faders. Also, the soundcraft gives you a knob for every control on the channel strip, the qu does not which kinda bums me out a bit.
Old 16th February 2016
  #36
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JoaT's Avatar
I was about to attach pictures of both x32 and m32 preamp cards here, but the task turned out to be more than I can handle with ipad.

Anyway, the cards look pretty much like they could be interchangeable. They are not identical. Someone somewhere posted that better caps are used on Midas version, altough I could not tell that from the images. Cirrus logic digital conversion looks about identical on Both.

So yes, there could be better caps and faders on m32. But that's about it.
Old 16th February 2016
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoaT View Post
I was about to attach pictures of both x32 and m32 preamp cards here, but the task turned out to be more than I can handle with ipad.

Anyway, the cards look pretty much like they could be interchangeable. They are not identical. Someone somewhere posted that better caps are used on Midas version, altough I could not tell that from the images. Cirrus logic digital conversion looks about identical on Both.

So yes, there could be better caps and faders on m32. But that's about it.
Roger that. You can tell all the software is exactly the same just by looking at it.


So it wasnt a Behringer video i watched. It was from CCI Solutions. Here is the link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDDSeZeG16U
Old 16th February 2016
  #38
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Aisle 6's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoaT View Post
I was about to attach pictures of both x32 and m32 preamp cards here, but the task turned out to be more than I can handle with ipad.

Anyway, the cards look pretty much like they could be interchangeable. They are not identical. Someone somewhere posted that better caps are used on Midas version, altough I could not tell that from the images. Cirrus logic digital conversion looks about identical on Both.

So yes, there could be better caps and faders on m32. But that's about it.
As there is so, so much misinformation regarding these things around the internet, I asked the national importer directly and they said that they were based on the Pro series pres, but are not the same pres as the Pro series. Not trying to create conjecture here, just asked the horse directly and got that reply.

I only mention it as I get tired of hearing so much marketing hype around such things, like, Midas pres, Line Array Blah..blah, Lexicon FX...and the list goes on. In most cases it is simply words for a brochure and has little to do with improvement or even practical use. It is usually, just simply a badge with a brand. It means nothing.

Sorry for the rant. I really did not mean to derail the OP.
Old 16th February 2016
  #39
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Aisle 6's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramid City View Post
Yeah, I do use the soundcraft more than the rest. The x32 2nd most. Just curious, what dont you like about the soundcraft? The big differences i like on the soundcraft over the qu is the scribble strips for starters, so much easier to not have to tape up the board, especially if using more than 1 layer of faders. Also, the soundcraft gives you a knob for every control on the channel strip, the qu does not which kinda bums me out a bit.
I do not really want to continue to derail this thread so I will PM you. My point was that I disagree that the Soundcraft is simpler to use than the A&H, but as much as I like the A&H did not think that was as suitable to the OP as others. Trying to be as bipartisan as possible.
Old 16th February 2016
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aisle 6 View Post
I do not really want to continue to derail this thread so I will PM you. My point was that I disagree that the Soundcraft is simpler to use than the A&H, but as much as I like the A&H did not think that was as suitable to the OP as others. Trying to be as bipartisan as possible.

Roger that!
Old 17th February 2016
  #41
Thank you for all your input everyone. I really appreciate it. Regarding the GLD80: That board looks great, but it's double the price, at least, of the others.

And to the "what if I need a few more inputs" question. We've been using a 24 channel board, so any of these boards are already going to be a lot more inputs. I think we'll be okay. If we do end up needing more for some reason I'll just use a second mixer to submix the band.

Regarding scene recall: Of course it's important, that and remote mixing are the main reasons we're switching to digital from analog. Though offline editing and some other bells and whistles would be nice, I feel like ANY amount of scene recall will be a huge step up from what we currently have with an analog board, which is none.

This all being said I ordered an SI Impact. I got a really good price on a brand new one with full warranty on eBay. Under 2k. That leaves some change to order a couple used iPads for remote mixing.

Now I'm off to start my new thread: which wireless microphone systems should I buy?
Old 1st March 2016
  #42
Got the Impact new with warranty on eBay for $1900. And damn, it is beautiful! Also ordered a couple used iPads to control it remotely... Now I just need to learn to use it!
Old 1st March 2016
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackchandelier View Post
Got the Impact new with warranty on eBay for $1900. And damn, it is beautiful! Also ordered a couple used iPads to control it remotely... Now I just need to learn to use it!
This blows my mind because that's a better price than you can get an Expression 1 for.
Old 1st March 2016
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackchandelier View Post
Got the Impact new with warranty on eBay for $1900. And damn, it is beautiful! Also ordered a couple used iPads to control it remotely... Now I just need to learn to use it!

Dude thats sweet!!!!! Im jealous. Getting mine is postponed a bit longer. Picked up a few 500 series modules for an ep my band is working on so that broke the bank for a bit. and trust me. in 20 minutes of being on the board youll be through most of it already. So simple to figure out. I was also told recently by my harmen rep that a new app is coming out for Android and IOS, for phones and tablets that allow the FOH guy to lock the poeple on stage to 1 monitor mix so they can no longer get on your main mix and mess you up by accident. thats gonna be huge.
Old 1st March 2016
  #45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramid City View Post
Dude thats sweet!!!!! Im jealous. Getting mine is postponed a bit longer. Picked up a few 500 series modules for an ep my band is working on so that broke the bank for a bit. and trust me. in 20 minutes of being on the board youll be through most of it already. So simple to figure out. I was also told recently by my harmen rep that a new app is coming out for Android and IOS, for phones and tablets that allow the FOH guy to lock the poeple on stage to 1 monitor mix so they can no longer get on your main mix and mess you up by accident. thats gonna be huge.
From what I (thought) I read somewhere that was already a capability? Maybe I confused it with a different app. Android capability sure would be nice. I am not a fan of Apple products and really dislike that I just had to buy two iPads when I already have Android phones and tablets laying around...
Old 1st March 2016
  #46
Quote:
Originally Posted by higradeguy View Post
This blows my mind because that's a better price than you can get an Expression 1 for.
They're pretty much the same price, aren't they? $50 difference at Sweetwater. And everything is always cheaper on eBay. I bought from Proaudiostar, open box for $1800 then they emailed me and said for $100 more I could get a new one!
Old 1st March 2016
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackchandelier View Post
From what I (thought) I read somewhere that was already a capability? Maybe I confused it with a different app. Android capability sure would be nice. I am not a fan of Apple products and really dislike that I just had to buy two iPads when I already have Android phones and tablets laying around...

The android software is supposed to be released by april-ish time. Visi Remote is not able to lock ipads to certain mixes.
Old 1st March 2016
  #48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramid City View Post
The android software is supposed to be released by april-ish time. Visi Remote is not able to lock ipads to certain mixes.
Okay then I must have read that feature on a different mixer's app. April-ish? Well our opening night is April 1st. iPads should be fine for now..
Old 1st March 2016
  #49
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackchandelier View Post
Okay then I must have read that feature on a different mixer's app. April-ish? Well our opening night is April 1st. iPads should be fine for now..

Yeah you should be fine. Ive been using the app for over a year now and its only happened like 3 times where someone got off there mix by accident.
Old 17th February 2017
  #50
Here for the gear
 

I run a Soundcraft Impact and it's a beautiful sounding board but has some near wierd flaws. The lack of a convenient in-out for a 2 track sucks up inputs and outputs. Compressors are nice but lack frequency control, but the killer is no libraries. That's just a pain. No saving user fx, e.q.s, or scribble strips names.
Every time I use the board I enjoy it's sound and workflow, yet those feature lacks are just inconvenient enough that I keep thinking about other boards.
Oh, and the stupid USB light socket.
Old 17th June 2019
  #51
Here for the gear
Coming to this 2 years later...

I have an SI Impact for one theater, and an X32 for another theater. The X32 has some nice features that the SI Impact does not (e.g. RTA, real inserts, colorable scribble strips, USB recording), but the X32 has weird input (grouped by 8) routing, and IMHO is better suited for a smaller theater than the SI Impact. I find the cues/scenes/snippets organization confusing and hard (or maybe just time-consuming to program) and it doesn't seem to really separate out a show. There can only be one "show" on an X32, and they have to be saved to/loaded from a memory stick. I have yet to figure out how to use cues/scenes/snippets for programming a show. The closest I've done is use scenes to save the state of the board for an individual show.

The SI Impact is awesome in it's routing and fader configuration; I am able to get 24 on a single page; I've done more than that using mixers/VCAs for small ensembles on the main page, while having their individual channels on another. I can do something similar with the X32, using DCAs to control mics above 16.

The SI Impact has a bug with the VCAs (latest software as of this writing), in that their global isolate setting doesn't restore after boot, so it's a startup checklist item. It also doesn't separate VCA on(mute) and fader level for programming; so I've come to use mixes for that. The SI Impact has better show/cue organization, in that each show is its own file that stores cues; a cue represents the whole state of the board. More than one show can be saved to the board at a time without using an external memory stick. While fader-glow is nice, it fixed in what it represents, and standard mic inputs (white scribble strip) have no fader glow, but stereo inputs (e.g. from the USB) are purple with purple glow. I can't configure each input with a different color for organization purposes. And despite what the manual says, you can't create a stereo channel from a line-level input, you have to create a linked channel. So, despite the bugs, the SI Impact (and the other SI consoles) I love the genericness of the board (i.e. no specific 2-track inputs, no inserts, no talkback, etc.) that lets me configure it especially for a show.

I even found a nice USB gooseneck light for the SI Impact!
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