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Loudspeaker Selection - QSC K12's with KLA181?
Old 21st December 2015
  #1
Here for the gear
Loudspeaker Selection - QSC K12's with KLA181?

Hey,

Ok, some background first. I'm in the process of setting up a small live venue, only about 650sqft with an audience of around 50-60 seating or 90-100 standing.

Initially i chose 1 QSC K12 and 1 KW181 for each left and right channel respectively.

Now the problem is, I cant seem to find an ideal location for the subs which leads me think, i might have to fly the subs.

Enter the KLA181. Basically the same as the KW181(thats the reply i got from my QSC rep) but with flying ability.

Perfect, I fly subs, place them wherever i want and they'll be clear out of the way of everything.

My question though is this, can the K12's be used with the KLA181? I know they cant be stacked of locked with the KLA181 like the KLA12's can be. But i was wondering if anyone has tried this combo and how they set it up. Does it give you the sound you need? Basically, opinions.

Any and all replies are appreciated.

Cheers!


Sohaill
Old 21st December 2015
  #2
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mojo filters's Avatar
 

I would expect the KW12 powered speaker's rigging points would allow you to have a professional installer rig them for you. They are effectively the K12 in a nicer box.

Ideally they should go as near the subs as possible - but from a practical perspective I'd find the location for the tops that best covers the whole room without need for a front fill.

I can't tell you if it will give you the sound you need. See if you can rent a KW12 over KW18s rig, then test it in your room to see if it performs up to your expectations. If it does, you can assume a professional install of the same gear will sound even better, through optimal placement and fine tuning via some form of GEQ or PEQ.
Old 21st December 2015
  #3
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anadelman's Avatar
If you're going to fly the subs, why not buy the KLA112's and fly them from the bottom of the KLA181's?
Old 21st December 2015
  #4
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mojo filters's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by anadelman View Post
If you're going to fly the subs, why not buy the KLA112's and fly them from the bottom of the KLA181's?
Unless the OP indicates the constant curvature KLA boxes would suit their requirements, why spend the extra money?

The OP's description of the room and coverage requirements indicates a point source box (such as the K12 / KW12) will do the job they want. I suggested hiring an easy to find K / KW12 over a KW181 sub rig, to try in the room in question.

If that works fine, they can be sure a professionally flown rig of subs and tops with the same coverage characteristics will sound even better - assuming they are installed by someone who knows what they're doing (and is competent in respect of the obvious safety requirements).

I don't know anyone who has worked with both the QSC K12 / KW12, and thinks the CC KLA box sounds better. The only good reason for choosing the KLA option is because it is a better fit in terms of coverage. It's also worth noting the transition flying frame to hang KLA12s under the KLA sub, is nearly as dear as a little loudspeaker for in / out / centre fill duties.

If the OP hires a K12 / KW12 over KW181 rig to listen in this space, it should provide a solid indication of the suitability for a similar flown rig to work in that space. Assuming it works well, obviously a professionally installed rig (by a suitably knowledge and qualified person) of equivalent boxes will sound at least as well - if not better, as a permanent solution.

Even if the test rig doesn't perform as well as the OP wants, it's as likely that a cheaper combination of 12" tops, plus a front centre or outfill fed by a dedicated processor / matrix, to a little fill box such as QSC's K8 or EV's ZXA1, will be enough to complete the sonic picture. Another benefit of the latter solution is that it will cost less than a constant curvature array of 2 - 3 KLA12 boxes per side.

If a CC solution was really appropriate for this space, fortunately the OP should have no problem renting such to test the performance in their space.

My experience of constant curvature boxes, such as the QSC KLA or the JBL VRX options - is they perform well as a flexible hire stock solution for SR companys needing a blunt broader semi-scalable solution, for rigs that are used in a variety of spaces, where the narrower vertical coverage of each top element is useful in covering a variety of different rooms without delays.

The constant curvature boxes also work in installs where their coverage pattern and vertical scalability is suited to a particular space. However my experience is that the money involved in purchasing multiple CC arrayable boxes for installs, could often be better spent on a loudspeaker with good pattern control in both the horizontal and vertical.

The only CC box I can think of which has such capability is L-Acoustics Arcs Wide/Focus or mk II. All of which are significantly more expensive than the solutions currently being discussed.

For an install where such solutions would be appropriate, I'd expect a pair of Danley SM80s to be a cheaper and better sounding solution. If that 80° coverage pattern doesn't fit, a different single box per side can probably be found - with similar cost savings. Again if the space really needed the extra coverage, an inexpensive fill will likely cost less and sound better than just using something like an array of QSC KLA12s.

Furthermore the boxes suggested by the OP indicate a L/R array of 2 - 4 constant curvature elements per side would be much more expensive, if implemented properly.

The best way to determine the most appropriate loudspeaker solution for the OP's coverage and budget requirements, is for a professional to model the space and suggest suitable solutions, which can then be tested before a final decision is made.

Given the MI level gear the OP is considering, this may not be affordable in this instance. Fortunately auditioning MI gear like the QSC powered loudspeakers is not difficult, since it's commonly found in hire stock. Admittedly if the OP lives in a very remote location, they might struggle unless they are willing to drive long distances - but that would probably still be worth the expense, in pursuit of gaining sufficient knowledge to make informed purchases.
Old 23rd December 2015
  #5
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teamsterjim's Avatar
I use K12s for sidefills.
They have limited frequency response for mains.
KW & KLA 153s are the cabs that work well with KW & KLA 181s.
Old 23rd December 2015
  #6
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Just because they don't have fly points already installed doesn't mean you can't install some of your own. It's not like speakers were never flown before fly points were factory installed. It's more of an insurance measure than a mechanical one. You're just as well covered having a pro installer install fly points. You're no more liable installing fly points yourself than if they were already there. Either they hold up or they don't. If they don't, either you hired a pro or you didn't.

That being said, I can't imagine a flown KW181/K12 combo looking very good. I'm also having trouble imagining not having room for KW181's on the deck, they're pretty small.
Old 30th December 2015
  #7
Here for the gear
Thanks to all the posters for your replies..

@omjo filters : Thanks for the detailed reply bro, much appreciated.

So, after going back and forth with my supplier and the QSC guys here in the country several times, I've come to the conclusion that its just too much hassel to figure out how to properly fly the kw181's and the KLA181's do not justify the price difference.

Gonna just fly the K12's on the pole mount which will be coming from an anchor, high up on the wall. Should give me height, direction adjustment, tilt adjustment and sufficient distance from the walls as well. The subs will now be stacked on the left side of the stage, half way between stage front and the back wall. X-overed at 80Hz should eliminate any directional issues and then its just a matter of playing with the DBX driverack to get the time delay right.

Thats the best I've been able to come up with so far.

Thanks so much guys for your inputs, it really means a lot to me. If anybody has any suggestions, please feel free to post, we're all just contributing knowledge and experience here.
Old 30th December 2015
  #8
KEL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC2SPL View Post
Just because they don't have fly points already installed doesn't mean you can't install some of your own. It's not like speakers were never flown before fly points were factory installed. It's more of an insurance measure than a mechanical one. You're just as well covered having a pro installer install fly points. You're no more liable installing fly points yourself than if they were already there. Either they hold up or they don't. If they don't, either you hired a pro or you didn't.

That being said, I can't imagine a flown KW181/K12 combo looking very good. I'm also having trouble imagining not having room for KW181's on the deck, they're pretty small.
this doesn't seem like good advice. There are definite mechanical reasons involved. I suspect most "pro" installers wouldn't even consider flying a non flyable subwoofer without factory testd and installed points. I'd say safety trumps how something looks.

that being said, does a 20 x 30 room need two 18 subs? are there any single cab solutions?
Old 30th December 2015
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC2SPL View Post
Just because they don't have fly points already installed doesn't mean you can't install some of your own. It's not like speakers were never flown before fly points were factory installed. It's more of an insurance measure than a mechanical one. You're just as well covered having a pro installer install fly points. You're no more liable installing fly points yourself than if they were already there. Either they hold up or they don't. If they don't, either you hired a pro or you didn't.

That being said, I can't imagine a flown KW181/K12 combo looking very good. I'm also having trouble imagining not having room for KW181's on the deck, they're pretty small.

This is so wrong it's laughable. If a speaker doesn't have fly points, it wasn't designed to be flown. Adding your own fly points voids the warranty and places all liability on you. Doesn't matter if a pro installer puts them in - company is off the hook if they fail.

If you're going to fly speakers, do it right and get speakers that were meant to be flown with built in attachment points and have a professional insured installer fly them.

Or go your way and screw an eyebolt into an MDF cab. What could go wrong?
Old 31st December 2015
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nedorama View Post
Or go your way and screw an eyebolt into an MDF cab. What could go wrong?
Just because virtually all posts about flying cabs without factory points are devoid of common sense doesn't mean you can't exercise common sense to fly them. Either you know how to do it or you don't. Claiming it can't be done helps nobody.
Old 31st December 2015
  #11
KEL
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whether you can vs whether you should are way different concepts. I still don't think it's sound advice to suggest flying a non-flyable subwoofer when the appropriate product is available. When it's only $400 more for the certified correct product from a reputable company, and the products are for a commercial use, and not yet purchased? It's irresponsible to suggest otherwise. But that's only my opinion.
Old 1st January 2016
  #12
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mintaka007's Avatar
If the ceilings are high enough to fly your speakers, why not build a high shelf to put the sub's on. Put them as near the ceiling as you can and couple them. Volome of 2 kw181's won't be an issue in a small room like that, but I would suggest tuning/ delay the system to fit the room and also give you max gain before feedback. I love the qsc stuff for small rooms, can sound phenomenol and are bulletproof. Hire a good contractor to make sure the shelf is very solid and attached correctly and you shouldn't have an issue.
Old 2nd January 2016
  #13
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Actually, one KLA181 would sound better and probably be as loud as two KW181's...
Old 2nd January 2016
  #14
KEL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC2SPL View Post
Actually, one KLA181 would sound better and probably be as loud as two KW181's...
maybe you're confusing with a Ksub?
KLA and KW? they're virtually identical cabinets, same speaker, same power module, same spl. The only difference is the cabinet on the KLA is slightly different for flying and mounting KLA12. It has a bit more internal volume, lowering its -6dB point a couple Hz
Old 2nd January 2016
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC2SPL View Post
Just because virtually all posts about flying cabs without factory points are devoid of common sense doesn't mean you can't exercise common sense to fly them. Either you know how to do it or you don't. Claiming it can't be done helps nobody.
Telling people to fly non fly-rated cabs is just dumb. Unfortunately, GS is full of folks devoid of common sense, so they will look at your post and think it's OK, even if they're using a chain thrown over a rafter...

Insurance also frowns on anyone who flies cabinets that aren't designed to be flown. If you install them, it's your a$$ for liability if someone is injured or dies.

Why not be safe and use the right gear for the right job?
Old 5th January 2016
  #16
Gear Maniac
Back to the o/p. Can you talk a bit more about not being able to find the right location? Is it a visual thing or a sound coverage thing. If it's the latter, you could try a center cluster. If it's a visual thing, it's perfectly fine to fly non-flyable cabs.............as long as you're in outer space.
Old 5th January 2016
  #17
270182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anadelman View Post
If you're going to fly the subs, why not buy the KLA112's and fly them from the bottom of the KLA181's?
No no no no no. The K12s sound better than the KLAs, and by the time he purchases enough KLAs to get the same vertical coverage, he would be into three cabs, they would be aiming at the ceiling and the floor, costing lots more money, and then he would need more subs to compensate for all of those HF drivers. The KA is a nasty sounding box anyway.

The OP should stick with his plan. The KLA sub is about the same thing as the KW181.
Old 5th January 2016
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mintaka007 View Post
If the ceilings are high enough to fly your speakers, why not build a high shelf to put the sub's on. Put them as near the ceiling as you can and couple them. Volome of 2 kw181's won't be an issue in a small room like that, but I would suggest tuning/ delay the system to fit the room and also give you max gain before feedback. I love the qsc stuff for small rooms, can sound phenomenol and are bulletproof. Hire a good contractor to make sure the shelf is very solid and attached correctly and you shouldn't have an issue.
I will tell you why, because you don't build a shelf to sit speakers on over people's heads. There are seismic and rigging considerations, enforced by local inspectors and regulatory agencies. Just buy the right cabinet for the job and install it. When it comes down to an injury or death lawsuit, you had better have your butt covered, using the proper materials and practices. This type of advice is spooky and all too common.
Old 5th January 2016
  #19
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mintaka007's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASCMe View Post
I will tell you why, because you don't build a shelf to sit speakers on over people's heads. There are seismic and rigging considerations, enforced by local inspectors and regulatory agencies. Just buy the right cabinet for the job and install it. When it comes down to an injury or death lawsuit, you had better have your butt covered, using the proper materials and practices. This type of advice is spooky and all too common.
Absolutely and 100% incorrect. I have been in the construction business for 22 years, owned my own construction company for 15+. (Northwest staircase and millwork and inland woodwork and design if you would like to check). There are no codes, none, limiting you installing speakers on overhead shelves. There are codes involving rigging speakers. Why you ask? Because hanging speakers from a few points attached to the structure is much more dangerous the having an entire flat surface built that is attached to the structure not only in more points, but that in itself provides strength and support, sreading the load across a much larger area. This has been done many times in churches and ballrooms where seeing the sound system is undesirable. Before you spout off like some sort of know it all or safety expert again, please provide the ubc's (building codes) that you say exist that wont let you put large speakers on an overhead shelf structure.

What is all too spooky and common are people on this forum who run their mouth about things they are not informed in.
Old 5th January 2016
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mintaka007 View Post
Absolutely and 100% incorrect. I have been in the construction business for 22 years, owned my own construction company for 15+. (Northwest staircase and millwork and inland woodwork and design if you would like to check). There are no codes, none, limiting you installing speakers on overhead shelves. There are codes involving rigging speakers. Why you ask? Because hanging speakers from a few points attached to the structure is much more dangerous the having an entire flat surface built that is attached to the structure not only in more points, but that in itself provides strength and support, sreading the load across a much larger area. This has been done many times in churches and ballrooms where seeing the sound system is undesirable. Before you spout off like some sort of know it all or safety expert again, please provide the ubc's (building codes) that you say exist that wont let you put large speakers on an overhead shelf structure.

What is all too spooky and common are people on this forum who run their mouth about things they are not informed in.
Actually, in my market, there are regulations. I have first hand knowledge of churches, who tried to do things themselves and did this same type of thing, one of them had accidents with organ speakers and the other with JBL M series. OSHA was all over them. Then came the fire inspectors and insurance companies. It was not pretty.
Old 5th January 2016
  #21
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mintaka007's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ASCMe View Post
Actually, in my market, there are regulations. I have first hand knowledge of churches, who tried to do things themselves and did this same type of thing, one of them had accidents with organ speakers and the other with JBL M series. OSHA was all over them. Then came the fire inspectors and insurance companies. It was not pretty.
I didn't tell them to do it themselves, I told them to hire a contractor. Post these regulations "in your area". You won't because again you are talking outside of your expertise. These things did not happen in a church, there was no investigation. You are lying to try to save face. Why would the fire Marshall have an issue? Electrically it is the same application and a shelf structure is not a fire hazard. OSHA is a workplace safety entity that doesn't sign off on structural items. The county building inspector under the main permit and electrical permit handles regulatory issues. If this was built correctly, it is MUCH safer than rigging.
As I said, hire a respectable contractor and my system is much safer, but not as cheap as rigging. Unless you have the regulations to post or the churches name where this speaker shelf " disaster" happened, there is no reason to reply. The hole you are digging can't get much deeper.
Old 5th January 2016
  #22
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mintaka007's Avatar
Also, while it is a bit more expensive, building upper and lower facades/soffits and side towers that hides your speakers (but still designed to not hinder soundwaves toward the listening area) is a very clean look. There is a ballroom in a masonic temple we did some of this in, and we also did it in ron puyear's house (2nd in line at amway, 27,000 square foot home) All tv's (screens showing only) and sound systems were were hidden. It is also amazing how much more 3d it sounds without your eyes immediately telling your brain where the sound is emminating from. rather than just in ceiling speakers, we did coffered ceilings in most rooms and designed in a speker grill cloth in the center of each coffer. You cant tell that is waht it is, but it makes it hard to pick out the source in a surround system like that without any visual feedback. Domed and barrel ceilings did some pretty cool things with the sound as well. Side, upper and lower facades aren't that expensive depending on finish and material used, the shelf costs a bit in commercial because attachments have to be customized to the structure. Concrete, steel, dealing with drop ceilings so you have to have a welded drop apparatus (which you would need for rigging as well) are some of the factors. If I sent my crew in to do the structure for 2 kw181's in a basic commercial application with either steel beams or clearspan wood trusses/joist, they could have it done in a day. Material and labor would total about 1000.00. Average street retail on a kla181 is 1850 per, kw is 1400 per. I got all for of my kw181's for 1000 or less each, and it is easier to find them used in mint condition for a cheaper price than it is to find kla's as they are much more rare. The plus side of a shelf is you can hide them or switch to a different sub anytime without having to buy only riggable speakers. Pros and cons to both, and my original point was giving the OP another option that works very well when done correctly, and giving him way more speaker options. Depending on the acoustics of the room, you could have mains up there as well.
Old 5th January 2016
  #23
KEL
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if you've been around long enough and paid attention to the ways people have rigged or mounted speakers in venues, you've seen many of the horrors. Especially when it comes to churches, restaurants, dance studios, small clubs and halls, there is no limit to the unsafe ways I've seen speakers mounted. Building a shelf is no more or less safe than traditional rigging methods. It all has to do with who does it and whether that's what they're qualified to do. Unfortunately, a lot of the construction falls outside of the permit & inspection area. Having experience in an area only means you'd probably do better. How many shoddy construction jobs have we seen in permitted, signed off buildings?

"so & so's a contractor"
"Blah blah is a professional sound man"
"Joe's an electrician"
etc...
that's how a lot of these install jobs happen.

Btw, nothing is absolutely 100% incorrect or correct and just because someone has years of experience building things professionally, that still doesn't mean it's good advice to do it the way they would. I've seen some retrofit "shelf" speaker mountings that could hold two large adult's worth of weight. Unfortunately, the installer didn't take into account side to side torque loads, common here in Ca during earthquakes. I've seen active speakers in a soffit with no airflow.
Often chain or cable flown cabinets are much safer as they have give.. Most manufacturers build triple (or more ) redundancy into each fly point..meaning that if the cabinet weighs 100 lbs, any one fly point can handle 300 or more lbs.

the best advice here? don't tell someone how to fly speakers. Buy flyable speakers whenever possible. hire someone that does this, watch and ask lots of questions. There are far more ways to do this wrong than right..
Old 5th January 2016
  #24
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mintaka007's Avatar
I agree, hire a professional when dealing with things that can cause serious injury to people or property. I am not a professional engineer. I have done live sound for many years, a small bit on large touring systems, but mostly local 1000 or less shows. I have read and understand the yamaha sound reinforcement handbook, and have dealt with enough problems to have a pretty good toolbag of solutions for most anything that comes up. I have a good ear, but recording wise I have a lot less experience and my equipment, while pretty good compared to most home studio guys, can't touch a real studios gear. When I play in a band that is getting ready to record, we might lay down some stuff in my studio, but I always convince them to record in a real professional studio for the actual album. Having a professionally trained engineer with high quality tools he knows inside and out makes a huge difference in the final product.

So I guess my point is hiring a professional when trying to elevate these speakers is the bottom line. Whether rigging or designing an overhead structure. Cost of either is going to be close to the same.

Flying a speaker via self installed rigging mounts is definitely not a good idea. The cabinets weren't designed to spread the load like a flyable cabinet.
Old 5th January 2016
  #25
Gear Nut
 

K12s do have stock rigging points, y'all. All K-series speakers do.

As others have said, please don't build a shelf or anything like that. If you think that's a plausibly good idea, hire someone to hang them for you. If you absolutely feel that you must do it yourself, at least use QSC's (overpriced) rated eyebolts sold specifically for the K12. (If you know enough about rigging to pick safe hardware you already know how to find the same thing for cheaper. Not trying to be mean, just honest.) Please please please do that at least. Anything less would be incredibly dangerous.
Old 6th January 2016
  #26
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mojo filters's Avatar
 

I think it's absurd to suggest that when a company offers two almost identical loudspeaker products, one of which is optimized for flown applications - use of the slightly cheaper model that has no rated flyware is advocated, along with a more complicated and specially engineered solution to safely fly it.

The slight cost increase for an item like QSC's KLA181 covers not just the fly points on the cabinet, but also the safety ratings of all related flyware from the manufacturer.

These standard known quantities allow suitably qualified persons to utilize standard professional practices, plus equipment that the manufacturer spent huge amounts of money on to allow them to sell it with recognized safety factors such as strength / weight load-baring ratios.

This makes both the practice of flying such products safely, and the certification of that safety for insurance, regulatory and owner/operator piece-of-mind reasons - as straightforward as possible, providing an effective solution which I find hard to imagine could be achieved more cheaply through some custom engineering whose only purpose in this case would be to save $3-400!

However the golden rule here has already been stated above: this is not a place where folks should be telling others how to fly loudspeakers, but one where rather we ensure all such advice is that the only option is to use professional solutions.
Old 9th January 2016
  #27
Here for the gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixwiz View Post
Back to the o/p. Can you talk a bit more about not being able to find the right location? Is it a visual thing or a sound coverage thing. If it's the latter, you could try a center cluster. If it's a visual thing, it's perfectly fine to fly non-flyable cabs.............as long as you're in outer space.
Well, it's a bit of both actually. I initially wanted my subs to be exactly under their respective HF cabs. Unfortunately, as the project evolved, we realised that the subs would be cutting off a major movement pathway in the outlet... thats a no-no.

Moving them further ahead puts them right in the middle of all my tables and behind puts them on the stage.

Just a question though, can i place both the subs on opposite walls, exactly in the middle of the venue, facing each other. Logically that should give me coverage, but i have this niggling doubt that it'll mess with the LF response and I'll end up with some nasty, muddy ****.

The distance between the subs would be about 20 feet. Not much at all.

This sub issue is actually giving me sleepless nights....

I suppose I'll just stick stacking them up in the same place.

Cheers!
Old 9th January 2016
  #28
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by CreativeVision View Post
Well, it's a bit of both actually. I initially wanted my subs to be exactly under their respective HF cabs. Unfortunately, as the project evolved, we realised that the subs would be cutting off a major movement pathway in the outlet... thats a no-no.

Moving them further ahead puts them right in the middle of all my tables and behind puts them on the stage.

Just a question though, can i place both the subs on opposite walls, exactly in the middle of the venue, facing each other. Logically that should give me coverage, but i have this niggling doubt that it'll mess with the LF response and I'll end up with some nasty, muddy ****.

The distance between the subs would be about 20 feet. Not much at all.

This sub issue is actually giving me sleepless nights....

I suppose I'll just stick stacking them up in the same place.

Cheers!
Although I'm not sure how to do it, a diagram might be useful. Will they fit under the stage? If so, try a center cluster (putting them right next to each other in the middle). This will give you a bit more output and will cut down on nulls in certain parts of the room. Bass is a funny thing but once you get it right, it's pretty much set it and forget it.
Old 10th January 2016
  #29
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mintaka007's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrenc View Post
K12s do have stock rigging points, y'all. All K-series speakers do.

As others have said, please don't build a shelf or anything like that. If you think that's a plausibly good idea, hire someone to hang them for you. If you absolutely feel that you must do it yourself, at least use QSC's (overpriced) rated eyebolts sold specifically for the K12. (If you know enough about rigging to pick safe hardware you already know how to find the same thing for cheaper. Not trying to be mean, just honest.) Please please please do that at least. Anything less would be incredibly dangerous.
He is looking to elevate the subwoofers. kw181's are 25% cheaper than the kla's (retail), and about 35% cheaper used. the kw181's do not have fly points, and everyone is on the same page telling him to not install his own fly points.
Old 11th January 2016
  #30
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mintaka007 View Post
He is looking to elevate the subwoofers. kw181's are 25% cheaper than the kla's (retail), and about 35% cheaper used. the kw181's do not have fly points, and everyone is on the same page telling him to not install his own fly points.
No, in his last post he said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CreativeVision
...Gonna just fly the K12's on the pole mount which will be coming from an anchor, high up on the wall. Should give me height, direction adjustment, tilt adjustment and sufficient distance from the walls as well. The subs will now be stacked on the left side of the stage, half way between stage front and the back wall...[added emphasis mine]
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