Agreed. The SMs are decent microphones which are affordable and accessible to many sound people on a budget! I appreciate you hearing me out here! I'm saying this out of the love for sound. I will give another example! Camera manufacturers are spitting out cameras every year now as we live in the nano technology age! Even though my late friend and mentor Joseph Bernard Miller used to tell me to "leave well enough alone" during my making of 5 violins in his Lexington, Kentucky shop, I would venture to revamp or create the new generation microphone SM series. I would design a microphone for softer voices, one for loud voices, one for mic eaters, condensers, etc! I would be asking myself why the Shure product sounds muddy in comparison to other mics and go from there! I would improve the sensitivity! The Beyerdynamic TG V70d has a sensitivity of 4 with about the same sound output of Sennheiser's flagship stage 1" diaphragm condenser e965 whose acclaimed sensitivity is a 7! Thanks for hearing me out! Life is very short to live it in a compromised way! Plus, I don't think we are asking for much! And one more plus: what are those highly paid engineers doing? And I'm a retired government engineer now! Not highly paid at all though! Lol.

I think people who keep claiming the SM58 is the best-sounding mic are just so used to EQ'in the crap out of it to make it sound good.
Plug it straight onto a PA with everything flat and it sounds simultaneously boomy, dull and megaphone-like.

The Beta 58A is brighter, but the treble lift makes the presence boost a bit harsh on many voices. Better than a 58 but still needs to be EQ'd to sound great, and still no top-end shimmer.
The SM57 sounds better on vocals than both, with a more natural and pleasant presence, although it's lacking that very top-end as well; since it has no pop protection one needs to be added, with all the drawbacks that implies.
I just tried the PGA58 (the new version of their cheapo PG model) and to be honest it sounds great, better than both more expensive vocal models. The suspension is not as good, plosives are more marked, it doesn't come without a switch and I have no idea about the polar pattern but a PGA58 on a stand with a PopperBlocker inside will sound more natural and hi-fi than any other Shure vocal dynamic.

The Sennheiser e835 sounds great with flat EQ, giving you quite a hi-fi sound on crappy PA systems one finds in most UK venues. It can be a bit sibilant and grainy in really good PAs, but even when eating the mic it stays clear.
The e935 is very similar but has a presence boost (at a better-chosen frequency range than the Shures) which helps with projection of quieter singers. It's more similar to the Beta 58A, whilst being better at everything; sort of a "glassy" presence as opposed to a megaphone-like one.
The e845 is very natural-sounding with buttery midrange but has a very hypercardioid pattern; less to the sides and a big lobe at the back, so it's not for everyone; the e945 is possibly the best Sennheiser all-rounder.

I tried the M80 and I absolutely loved it, possibly my go-to choice for vocals if I don't know who's singing.
It can have a few plosives and can be a little bit bright, but in a far nicer way than the Beta 58A; a PopperBlocker is a good idea too.
The M81 has a more natural frequency response but I somehow found it a bit less distinct and natural in the treble; the guy above who said it might have to do with it having extra foam might be right about that.

I wouldn't use a condenser in any small room containing a drum kit, but for a band using IEMs the e965 (in supercardioid mode), the Beta 87A and the Electro-Voice RE510 can be made to work. They all sound fantastic, with the Sennheiser having a bit more detail at the expense of some grain or "hair" (a pleasant-sounding one, though) and the 87A having a bit more of a presence boost, at the expense of a slightly unfocussed top end. The RE510 has a great balance and decent feedback rejection, although it sounds a bit pinched when compared to the e965 in a studio environment and has a bit of grain in a more unpleasant way.
I found the e865 a bit peaky and hollow compared to these two, and more prone to feedback.
The Electro-Voice RE410 sounds great but is very feedback prone; it would be a good choice for pop singers with IEMs on a budget as long as they sing close to the grille, although the mic is f*ck-ugly. There is a bit of grain to the sound when recorded, but this would never show in a stage.
The KMS105 is the most beautiful-looking mic I've ever seen and has the cleanest treble I've heard on a handheld but it is VERY boomy well into the midrange frequencies when used too close and very feedback prone; I'd use it only for large stages with IEMs for low stage volume applications, as long as the singer keeps it at least 10 inches away from the mouth.
I find condensers have more in the proximity effect that doesn't happen with dynamics, so I'd only use them for singers with spot-on mic technique.

The AKG D5 sounds good (although a bit grainy and present) and the D7 sounds great and detailed, but I have seen the D5's grille fall apart very quickly due to shoddy construction, so I'm reluctant to recommend either.

I haven't used the MD421 and 441 live, although the latter seems to be the dynamic of choice when money (and size) is no object.

I tried the Audix OM5 and I found it to be a bit overly-present and shouty, with no bass even when eating the mic, although the treble is buttery-smooth (better than most dynamics I've found).
Would work wonders in metal bands with quiet singers, or shoegaze whispering in small stages though.
The OM6 and OM7 seem to have a better and more natural lower midrange (although I haven't tried them), and I would definitely recommend them for quiet singers who can stay on top of the mic at all times as the ultimate feedback destroyers.

The only mic I've tried from Audio Technica is their top dynamic AE6100, which sounded super clean and detailed, although a bit pinched in the upper midrange when compared to the top Sennheisers.
It has a similar quality to the e835 of accentuating detail and clarity in crappy stages though, with fantastic feedback rejection and a more refined top end.

My recommendation is to try the M80, which I'd see as the best all-rounder. The e945 is the next-one down on my list.
On crappy UK stages the e835 often sounds clearer and better than anything else, as it counters the megaphone ice-pick sound of cheaper PA speakers nicely. An upgrade for small stages would be the AE6100.
The Sennheiser range has come down in price dramatically in the UK lately by the way.

If you only have £50, the PGA58 is a complete surprise, and to me an upgrade from an SM58 any day of the week when used with a PopperBlocker.

Just my 0.02

I'm not a big fan of some Shure products, but based on their history I would like to think that they know more about their business than I do, it's pretty obvious though that they must be doing something good to maintain the position they have in the market. Since I'm not forced to buy their products, I hardly spend a lot of time thinking about why they do what they do...especially when I can buy products from other manufacturers that satisfy my needs.

Apparently we need a different mic for every possible situation...

Well, yes, that's often the case.

A competent sound engineer with a bit of time at soundcheck can make any decent mic sound good. Sounding great is not always that straightforward.

Again, if I was going in completely blind without knowing the venue, the band and the singer, I'd just get M80s or e945s and lots of M201s for all the instruments.

@ DistortingJack - That's a very interesting read. I am really liking the Sennheiser E945 myself. I find it to be the most balanced sounding dynamic microphone I've tried. I also use the Sennheiser E838's as general workhorse mics and find them to be an absolute bargain in the UK (£45 from Maplin). I find the E838 reminds me of the E935 in a lot of ways and often use them when vocalists that normally use the E935 forget theirs. The top end is very similar to the E935 but sounds a little thicker in the low mids.
I have had similar experiences with the SM57, SM58, Beta58, Beta87 and AKG D5 and tend not to use any of these. I really like the Audio Technica ATM710 condenser and when the gig is suitable it would be my first choice. When the stage sound is too loud I use the Sennheiser E945, EV n/d767a, JZ HH1 and the E838 depending on the voice and mic technique. All of these can sound great when matched to the individual vocalist. If I had to just use two mics I would probably pick the Sennheiser E945 and JZ-HH1 or E838 as one is a cardioid and the other is super cardioid. I find these mics can work really in most situations.

I would still like to try the Telefunken M80, Audio Technica AE5400/AE6100 and Audix VX5 if the opportunity arises but I'm really happy with my mics. If anything, I'd just like a couple more E945's and ATM710's.

There...I fixed it.

I've even heard compitent mixers make good sound with 58s and 57s...go figure.

Beyerdynamic TG V70d.

I had another outing with the ATM710 today along with a Shure Beta 87a to compare. This time it was with a soft rock band where the drummer used hotrods. There were three wedge monitors on stage and the lead female vocalist played keys.
To start with I tried a couple of my goto dynamics JZ HH1 and Sennheiser E945. Both mics sounded really good with the E945 being my favourite.
First up from the condensers was the Beta 87a and the difference was big. The sound was more open, clearer and sounded very smooth. The output of the 87a was similar to my higher output dynamics. We were very happy with the sound of this mic and was a step up over any dynamic I've tried on this vocalist (about 7). Next we swapped the 87a with the Audio Technica ATM70 and the first thing that immediately hit us was how loud this mic is. It required roughly 15dB or more less gain to match the output of the other mics (all of which have noticeably higher output to an SM58). This mic also sounded fantastic and everyone again instantly preferred it to the dynamics.
Both these condensers sounded lovely with the ATM710 having a slightly more pronounced high end. The Beta 87a sounded slightly warmer. It was very hard to pick a favourite tonally as both mics sounded fantastic. I didn't compare the handling noise or pickup pattern of these mics but neither had any issues with bleed from the drums (however these were quieter than on your typical pub rock gig) and neither had any vague issues with feedback.
From my recent experiences with these two condensers I'm keen to experiment with these in more varying situations and try a couple other condensers. I will be borrowing an Audix VX5 and Sennheiser E865 soon and may try to get hold of the similarly priced Rode S1. I'm also going to borrow a Neumann KMS105 and Sennheiser E965 to hear how the higher end live vocal condensers compare.

We have had 4 of them almost since they first came out, so must be around 7-8 years now. They have been gigged in all kinds of conditions, indoors, outdoors, tossed around, loaned out, etc. and they are all still as good as new. No issues at all. Very solid, reliable workhorses.

The bit that I've seen come undone a few times is the part where the top of the grille is attached onto the silver ring. It looks very pretty but it's just a bit of glue holding the two parts together, so if a vocalist knocks the top of the grill from the side against the floor or a hard corner, it can come clean off. Admittedly not standard "use", but I have seen it happen more than once.
Most other vocal dynamics I can think of have the different metal parts of the grill soldered together for this reason.

I wouldn't mind using a D5 with musicians who I know will take care of it, but I would not buy them for a rental company or rehearsal studio.

I tried the ATM710 and Shure Beta 87a on a noisier stage this weekend and found they performed brilliantly.The band was drums, bass, keys and female vox and the drummer whilst not being the loudest I've heard was certainly playing much louder than the drummer last week.. The band were all using wedge monitors and were noticeably louder than than before.
I was expecting bleed and feedback to be an issue but was very surprised to find it wasn't! Feedback and bleed wasn't an issue at all though it was helped that the vocalist wasn't directly in front of the drums.
The female vocalist had a much edgier rocky voice than the last vocalist I tried these mic's on. Both mics again sounded excellent without EQ and I liked them both for different reasons. The Beta87a was very smooth and the ATM710 was a little brighter. The only negative I found was the high frequencies on both mics sounded edgy (slightly more with the ATM710) when the vocalist was belting it but on the quieter bits both sounded lovely. I don't think this was particularly the mics at fault as I found this with any of the dynamics I tried her on aswell as this was a characteristic of her voice. By the time I added a little reverb the sound was much smoother and sounded very impressive.
I ended up using the ATM710 again as I found the vocals sounded clearer over the band with this mic.

My opinion on the sm58 was the same like yours some time ago. Shure updated their product line with the shure ksm9 which is what you want: a modern sounding mic with switchable pattern. The sm58 needs a lot of gain for today standards. That means that the mic will sound much better with a good preamp. The second point is that every technician knows his sm58 - some of them hear the vocalist and know how to set the eq in an instant. It's a 'tool'. And I like the cardioid of the sm58 - you can play with the mic. I don't love it because it sounds dull with a bad mixer but I can't accept your hate against it. The size of it is perfect - nice round grill :D

i HATE shure SM58 and beta58. lifeless, nosy, dull.
Back in the days when PA systems weren't as hifi as they are now, you could get away with that.. no use for a mic who gets more audio-info than the PA can reproduce..
These days with hi-end live-audio, things have changed.

Never been a fan of the sennheisers.. the high-shelf in the mics makes them difficult to handle on a noisy stage.. especcially when using inears, sennheiser tend to pick up more overheads then the actual vocal they should pick up..

Big fan of Heil PR35 and PR22. love the proximity, directivity, yet detailed highs.. but needs getting used to as for mic-technique.. you really need to sing IN to these mics
Love the Telefunken M80, but have come to use it as my go to snare mic these days..
if you have the cash, try the Shure KSM9, use them all the time on national radio for live performances, never let me down. Love the switching between wide-cardio and supercardio !

I hate the Neumanns.. they sound amazing, as long as you're the only one on stage.. they take too much bleed from everything around them, which makes them unfocused and useless! kind of the same problem as the sennheisers, but with a different logo..

But:

Sadly enough (really, it's a disaster !!) : This summer i got to try the DPA D:FactoII's for a big project..
****ing hell !! the sound like a studio-mic, they are roadproof, they handle like a dynamic, the have an amazing feedback-rejection,.. BEST F*cking MIC EVER !!
Why is that a problem? i immediatly (in the pause of the first of 12 shows for which i got them as demo-mics), picked up my phone and ordered 2 of them, including the rings to use them wireless..
And as amazing as they are, they are just as pricey as they are fabulous.

Can't live without 'm anymore, and i hate the fact that i'm getting a new band which has 3 singers, so i'll have to get a third one..

I've heard good things about both of these, but I'm really worried about the rejection (which really you only end up finding about at actual gigs). Which one of the two has a tighter pattern between the DPA and the KSM9?

E965 is a dream, but expensive; both 935 and 945 are quite good, but the 945 needs vocalists who know what they are doing, because of its tight pattern

I find the E945 is more forgiving than the EV n/d767a?

Have you tried the Beyerdynamic TG V70?

Both have great rejection, with the DPA having better isolation..
I've really pushed it far and beyond without feedback..
Because of the great isolation you need less gain to get ,ore monitor, because you only push the vocals without others spill-sounds..

Even the singers themselves notice the difference!

+ 1 on the beyerdynamic tg v70

As they have quite strong proximity effect, you may also try the V71 that has much less proximity boost

I just picked up a secondhand Audio Technica AE5400 which should be here in the next few days. I've got four gigs this weekend to hopefully give it a good try out with a wide range of vocalists and venues.
I would like to try the Miktek PM9 and Telefunken M80 at some point but have been getting decent results with the Sennheiser E945, E935 and E838's regarding dynamic mics.

I may also pick up a Shure Beta87a as I liked the smoother high end this mic has compared to the Audio Technica ATM710. I'll see how the AE5400 fares first.

I've been trying the Audio Technica AE5400 out and haven't been that pleased with it so far. I find the mic needs a lot more EQ than my other mics. I'm not saying that it's a bad mic by any means but for the vocalists I'm working with through the specific pa's at the various venues I'm happier with the results I'm getting with my other mics.
I've just picked up a Telefunken M80 and one of the new EV ND86's.. I'm also borrowing an EV n/d967 and a Shure Beta 58 to try out at three events over the weekend with a variety of vocalists.

Encountered a real bummer with my N/D767a's, they don't hold up to loud vocalists. Of my five I have one left that works properly. The rest have damaged diaphragms, no low end, big 800Hz peak, one even has a pile of 16kHz *shrug* I retract my recommendation except for known vocalists that aren't howlers. Posting another thread about mic durability...

I had a gig at one of the notoriously challenging venues tonight and had a good chance to try out a few mics. I started with the e935 on the same vocalist I work with and had the same issue with the feedback. The speakers were in pretty much the same location and the same for the mic. I swapped it out for the Shure Beta 58 and the ringing was much less but the mic sounded very harsh! I then changed it for the EV ND86 and there was no ringing and the tone sounded nicer but still not quite right. I then tried the Telefunken M80 and this worked great! The pickup pattern is quite tight so it didn't pick up as much stage wash and the tone really suited this vocalist! I used the EV ND86 on the other female vocalist and it worked great on her voice!
I didn't get a chance to try the EV n/d 967 but I'm hoping to do so on tomorrow night.

I'd love to audition some Tele's, none kicking around my parts

I've managed to find a dealer who accepts returns on mics which is great news as there are no dealers within a few 100 miles that sell the mics I'm interested in. Finding a dealer that lets me try mics for 30 days is fantastic and allows me to try out a whole load of mics I'm interested in. I'd like to hear the Miktek PM9 and a couple of condensers such as the Rode S1 and the new AKG C7.

Hey, I've sent you a PM regarding your broken mics.
I'm amazed that someone's managed to kill the 767s.

Chris

Based on your feedback of those certain mics, i really think you'd be interested in trying a Shure SM87A. Not the Beta.

It's a condenser designed for live use. Ive a/b'd it against the KSM9 and its surprisingly similar actually for far, far less cost. Its very smooth and detailed and full, its tough going back to dynamics now. And I've found it has less issues with feedback than the shure beta's, which are all hyped/scooped response. The sm87 still has a slight high end lift, and the sm86 is basically the same mic but even flatter without the lift. I think its a sleeper and competes/beats more expensive options.

I am not surprised that the Telefunken M80 succeeded a little better. You really have to stay on those things and if the singer comes off the mic too much, you really start to loose gain. Great mic for the right singer though. Although I prefer the M81 as it is flatter than the M80 and takes EQ extremely well.

Thanks for the replies. I'm looking to pick up the Telefunken M81 and Miktek PM9 next.
I have considered the Shure SM87, Rode S1 and the new AKG C7 condenser mics but I'm in no hurry to try those yet.