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Remixes and Spotify/iTunes etc
Old 3rd February 2020
  #1
Gear Maniac
 
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Remixes and Spotify/iTunes etc

Hi all,

Someone I don’t know personally (but with a pretty good following...bigger than mine anyway!) wants to remix a song of mine.

It is unpublished by a major label...(although it is listed as being published by my own label) and written by me 100% so at present I own all rights.

The guy wants me to send him stems which I am happy to do...but can we both upload the finished remix to our own respective Spotify/iTunes accounts or do we have to pick just one? And what splits would be fair when it comes to collecting the pennies from streaming?

Any other tips info would be super appreciated.
Old 3rd February 2020
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
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Old 3rd February 2020
  #3
Don't see why not if you own it and are giving authority for the remixer to upload also. Signed to a major probably not.
Old 3rd February 2020
  #4
Ksp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44deluxe View Post
Hi all,

Someone I don’t know personally (but with a pretty good following...bigger than mine anyway!) wants to remix a song of mine.

It is unpublished by a major label...(although it is listed as being published by my own label) and written by me 100% so at present I own all rights.

The guy wants me to send him stems which I am happy to do...but can we both upload the finished remix to our own respective Spotify/iTunes accounts or do we have to pick just one? And what splits would be fair when it comes to collecting the pennies from streaming?

Any other tips info would be super appreciated.
Only one copy of any track can be uploaded or Spotify would have clashing content i think , only way around that is if the track is uploaded as a single and then also as an album track i think , you need to keep admin riights on the remix or you will be exploited , accept the remix but state you admin all your works and you will have to agree to pay him a % per year of income from that remix.

I would ask him what he wants to do with the remix ? release it on a physical release ? or upload it to his digital distributer .

You need to look at the remixers intentions . a lot of remixers exploit the originators and do these tricky deals where they upload it to ' their ' catalog and basically they exploit your work under the guise of a remix and you get fk all back accept maybe some profile raise that is very hard to translate into much income / money or even ' bookability ' as a live act .

Split wise 50/50 on a remix with you as Song writer and Co artist on the remix and with ownership but more importantly with that remix uploaded by you to your digital distributor .

I remain cynical when better known acts look to remix lesser acts , its often an exploitative relationship and one where the remixer can hear a potential ' high play lister ' in Your track but he dont own the track so he attempts to ' remix ' it
Old 3rd February 2020
  #5
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksp View Post
Only one copy of any track can be uploaded or Spotify would have clashing content i think , only way around that is if the track is uploaded as a single and then also as an album track i think , you need to keep admin riights on the remix or you will be exploited , accept the remix but state you admin all your works and you will have to agree to pay him a % per year of income from that .

You need to look at the remixers intentions . a lot of remixers exploit the originators and do these tricky deals where they upload it to ' their ' catalogue and basically they exploit your remix and you get fk all back accept maybe some profile raise that is very hard to translate into much income / money or even ' bookability ' as a live act .

Split wise 50/50 on a remix with you as Song writer and Co artist on the remix and with ownership but more importantly with that remix uploaded by you to your digital distributer .

That said what is he offering ? you will know his intent off the back of that .

I remain cynical when better known acts look to remix lesser acts , its often an exploitative relationship and one where the remixer can hear a potential ' play lister ' but he dont own the track so he attempts to ' remix ' it
Excellent info mate. Thank you...I’ve contacted Spotify to clarify...I can see there are pitfalls with me potentially giving him a banging track and me getting sweet nothing in return....
Old 3rd February 2020
  #6
Ksp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44deluxe View Post
Excellent info mate. Thank you...I’ve contacted Spotify to clarify...I can see there are pitfalls with me potentially giving him a banging track and me getting sweet nothing in return....
It's a tricky one as I don't want to encourage pessimism but I do want to encourage you to see what his intentions are, if the remix hits a good playlist you could do very well if there is a good agreement in place.

Regards Spotify do you use a digital distrbuter ? Spotify dont tend to deal with this side of things and the digital distributers do .
Old 3rd February 2020
  #7
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksp View Post
It's a tricky one as I don't want to encourage pessimism but I do want to encourage you to see what his intentions are, if the remix hits a good playlist you could do very well if there is a good agreement in place.

Regards Spotify do you use a digital distrbuter ? Spotify dont tend to deal with this side of things and the digital distributers do .
Oh don’t worry I’d rather be wary than gung ho when it comes to this...I’ve worked too hard! (Haven’t we all!?)

Spotify customer service is pretty good...but I use Distrokid as my distributer....and yeah, playlists etc is what I’m after...
Old 3rd February 2020
  #8
Lives for gear
 

No, you don’t upload twice. Generally the original artist uploads, splits 50/50 with remixer, if they are not paying you as a work for hire. I’m guessing since you’re asking then you’re not getting paid?

It’s fair, but also keep in mind the hassle it might be to chase down pennies (For most artists) if the paperwork is not submitted correctly. But should eventually show up in your PRO statements, if done right.

However I either do remixes for upfront hire or for a favor and ultimately not in it for chasing pennies (in many cases the original artist will have not recouped their expenses anyway, such as if they are paying for vinyl to be made).
Old 3rd February 2020
  #9
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kslight View Post
No, you don’t upload twice. Generally the original artist uploads, splits 50/50 with remixer, if they are not paying you as a work for hire. I’m guessing since you’re asking then you’re not getting paid?

It’s fair, but also keep in mind the hassle it might be to chase down pennies (For most artists) if the paperwork is not submitted correctly. But should eventually show up in your PRO statements, if done right.

However I either do remixes for upfront hire or for a favor and ultimately not in it for chasing pennies (in many cases the original artist will have not recouped their expenses anyway, such as if they are paying for vinyl to be made).
He wants to remix my track...no money is changing hands.

It would make more sense for it to be on my profile but then what does he get out of it? If it’s on his profile then I don’t get any publicity from it (I don’t want to count on people bothering to find my profile cause they liked “his” track...people are lazy!)

He has a lot more streams/followers than me at this point.
Old 3rd February 2020
  #10
Ksp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44deluxe View Post
He wants to remix my track...no money is changing hands.

It would make more sense for it to be on my profile but then what does he get out of it? If it’s on his profile then I don’t get any publicity from it (I don’t want to count on people bothering to find my profile cause they liked “his” track...people are lazy!)

He has a lot more streams/followers than me at this point.
Its a no-win situation a bit , is the guy on a decent label ? or on any big playlists ?
Old 4th February 2020
  #11
Gear Maniac
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksp View Post
Its a no-win situation a bit , is the guy on a decent label ? or on any big playlists ?
I don’t know if he’s signed...he has a track with over 3.5m streams which is a whole lot more than me!

And he has 94,000 monthly listeners (although that can be a misleading figure and I think Spotify hid how many followers artists have).

I mean at this point I’m just looking to get people to hear my music but if it’s only on his profile they won’t necessarily come over to mine!
Old 4th February 2020
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by kslight View Post
No, you don’t upload twice. Generally the original artist uploads, splits 50/50 with remixer, if they are not paying you as a work for hire. I’m guessing since you’re asking then you’re not getting paid?
Ahhhhhhh - yes! This is it! On Distrokid there is an option to split the payments between multiple users.

I would suggest to him that you have back the master to upload keeping full rights and give him 50% or something. It's not unreasonable for an artist to post his own work and credit a remix. If this guy isn't interested i'd suspect he wouldn't be reasonable with cutting you in properly on him handling it.
Old 4th February 2020
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44deluxe View Post
I don’t know if he’s signed...he has a track with over 3.5m streams which is a whole lot more than me!

And he has 94,000 monthly listeners (although that can be a misleading figure and I think Spotify hid how many followers artists have).

I mean at this point I’m just looking to get people to hear my music but if it’s only on his profile they won’t necessarily come over to mine!
You should keep 100% for yourself, just saying. And no, remixers never upload a track, rightholder of the original does that
Old 4th February 2020
  #14
Gear Maniac
 
44deluxe's Avatar
 

Massively helpful info guys thank you.

I did try and google all this but lately google seems to have got a lot less specific...!

I haven’t sent him any stems yet...

I can’t see it working really...I’m not a big artist so there’s nothing in it for him exposure wise if I just put it on my profile...plus once he’s done it I have no real power to stop him uploading it to his own profile...
Old 4th February 2020
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludar View Post
You should keep 100% for yourself, just saying. And no, remixers never upload a track, rightholder of the original does that
I don't agree with keeping 100% share for a remix - the remixer deserves something in my opinion - dependent on how much work is done to the track. A remix in my eyes should totally different to the main version or there's not much point so he should do a lot of work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 44deluxe View Post
Massively helpful info guys thank you.

I did try and google all this but lately google seems to have got a lot less specific...!

I haven’t sent him any stems yet...

I can’t see it working really...I’m not a big artist so there’s nothing in it for him exposure wise if I just put it on my profile...plus once he’s done it I have no real power to stop him uploading it to his own profile...
There is possibly something in it - if said remixer blows up at some point your track could get some decent exposure. All 'ifs' and 'maybe's' but to get somewhere in the music biz without the major marketing machine is difficult enough so why impede it? The payout from downloads and streaming is next to nothing anyway so you've not got much too lose really. If you register the track properly even if the remixer posts on his on media outlets it will be picked up by PRS or whoever your local rights society is - as long as you're registered of course. As you've mentioned that you're a smaller artist than him the remix could drive people your way that might not find you otherwise so worth it on that basis also. Normally a smaller artist would try to get a bigger name to remix something to latch onto that person's reputation but he's asking you so I see it as a positive thing.
Old 4th February 2020
  #16
Ksp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfantastic View Post
Ahhhhhhh - yes! This is it! On Distrokid there is an option to split the payments between multiple users.

I would suggest to him that you have back the master to upload keeping full rights and give him 50% or something. It's not unreasonable for an artist to post his own work and credit a remix. If this guy isn't interested i'd suspect he wouldn't be reasonable with cutting you in properly on him handling it.
sounds like the solution
Old 4th February 2020
  #17
Ksp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfantastic View Post
I don't agree with keeping 100% share for a remix - the remixer deserves something in my opinion - deg.
I agree the remixer needs some % and especially if he can get it a million plays, my rule in business is 50/50 no matter what , it sets respect between parties and you cannot get fairer.

The music world is littered with 30/70 deals and they sow seeds of bitterness and also other bull****e, destroy good bands and if humans cannot share then they are fked and there is some merit to 50/50 as just an act of fairness , its ok to give a bit if you did more work on a track and especially if he is giving back a large listener base that could make you some ok money.


In music business sometimes you have to look at what you will lose relative to what you ' may ' gain , you lose some stems , but if you dont do the $£$£ apsect right you may lose a fat chunk of money , its highly possibly whilst that track wont raise you profile much ( though some ! ) ( very little accept good management will now ) it may well make you some ok cash and thats the key really , open new doors ? how much is that worth ? you need to throw some caution to the wind whilst covering your back financially.

A lot of doors get closed due to fear but also a lot of people get used due to over trusting people who are exploitative Naturally .

I think the solution was already mentioned above to distribute via some neutral platform that pays each of you an agreed % direct .

This neutrality is the key and direct communication of this side of things before any stems are sent and after you felt the guy out.

If you sense a selfish ****** walk away , if you sense someone who aint 50/50 walk away , they are dead easy to see.


I would just see it as a bonus on top of your own release and as a ' speculative ' thing if you can get agreement and it feels right , like casting the line out in fishing but make sure your covered in case it gets some $$$$ as it will get depressing quick when your watching a remix of your work hit 1m streams and the remixer is shagging you financially or ignoring your emails.

I really recommend you suss the guy out and motivations and speak to him in person,

I would not trust him if he says he wants to do digital distro via his own distributer or acts a bit defensive or like he is in control

You have the solution which is Distrokid and dual royalty payment but just make sure you get a feel for the guy first.

You may find he is a nice guy , i hope so , 1m streams is worth a go , its a good offer if he agrees to neutral royalty collection and with that he can share it on his own playlists and you get 50% .

Its an offer i would rarely turn down myself as long as all the boxes were ticked , as a writer i would be more than happy with 1m remix streams if i was actually getting my % and there was no way the distributer could favour one of us over the other.

One thing is whether a record label are involved with him , if he says its via a label then this complicates things largely as most are run by parasites .

Last edited by Ksp; 4th February 2020 at 06:03 PM..
Old 4th February 2020
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfantastic View Post
I don't agree with keeping 100% share for a remix - the remixer deserves something in my opinion - dependent on how much work is done to the track. A remix in my eyes should totally different to the main version or there's not much point..
It is a good opinion, its just that basically royality share doesn't happen with remixes. It's a one time payment always or nothing, with indie artist to another yes you can make such an agreement but labels and especially with majors its no. Faster you learn it better.
Old 4th February 2020
  #19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludar View Post
It is a good opinion, its just that basically royality share doesn't happen with remixes. It's a one time payment always or nothing, with indie artist to another yes you can make such an agreement but labels and especially with majors its no. Faster you learn it better.
Yes - if a major is involved naturally it's a one off payment but if both artists are independent they can agree on a share as suits them. No label = no interference. The OP didn't mention any label involvement.
No need to learn as learned to avoid majors
Old 4th February 2020
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44deluxe View Post
Massively helpful info guys thank you.

I did try and google all this but lately google seems to have got a lot less specific...!

I haven’t sent him any stems yet...

I can’t see it working really...I’m not a big artist so there’s nothing in it for him exposure wise if I just put it on my profile...plus once he’s done it I have no real power to stop him uploading it to his own profile...
Why does it matter? You will probably gain more exposure if you don't upload because he has much larger fanbase and more followers, just try to take advance for it some another way.

If it does matter just tell him you require all the rights, he will send you a master and you will upload it.
Old 5th February 2020
  #21
Gear Maniac
 
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I've messaged him and basically said what has been said here in a friendly way and asked what he wants to do.

will let you know if he's still interested and if so what happens!


Thanks again peeps
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