The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 All  This Thread  Reviews  Gear Database  Gear for sale     Latest  Trending
2018 iPad Pros..Anyone buy one yet? Experiences with music software?
Old 12th November 2018
  #1
Lives for gear
2018 iPad Pros..Anyone buy one yet? Experiences with music software?

Looking to buy one of the new 2018 iPad pros..
most of the review concentrate on how they look etc
what about performance?
What are your experiences with IOS music software?
I have garageband,launchpad all the korg apps, lots of the apps for making
music on the iPad. I have an iPad air 2 and its great but it bogs down sometimes.
what are your experiences with the new iPad for making music?
Thanks!
Old 14th November 2018
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Diametro's Avatar
 

I bought a 12.9" 256 gb ... It's beautiful. I love the form factor. The screen is gorgeous. And I am currently using it as a VERY fancy controller for two H9s.

Even though my Mac setup is flawless, I would very seriously entertain the idea of migrating to the iOS world for recording/production.

However, my main audio interface is not class compliant so I'd need something new there (which honestly could be justified. I've spent about $400 total in audio interfaces, getting nice deals on both of them. The Presonus 1018 looks like a good form factor for sitting underneath the iPad Pro and keyboard case. I could spend more but I don't really think that's the main determining factor in whether you're recording good stuff or ****e.)

For music production strictly, most are probably waaay better off with an older iPad Pro with headphone jack and much lower price trag. No headphone jack is the reality going forward as devices get slimmer and slimmer (and svelte as this is, there's definitely another generation past this one) but it's still a negative and not great for those in music production.

However, I also attend a lot of meetings and take extensive notes at most of them. The iPad Pro is actually a very flexible and efficient device for this.

And, the speakers are great and Netflix and the web and reading books looks so nice. And faaaast.

Apple is onto something here but it's still pioneer days for the "pro" end of iPads and iOS.

You almost have to think of it as a very powerful, advanced and gorgeous — and very expensive — Swiss Army toy that *can* do serious work ...

EDIT: Looking back on OP, I didn’t really answer your question. More just related my experience. But perhaps that *does* answer your question ...

Last edited by Diametro; 15th November 2018 at 03:42 AM..
Old 17th November 2018
  #3
I was just about to make a separate post, but maybe I should try here first since you've asked the question...

I bought the new 12.9" iPad Pro with 512GB of storage, supposedly the most powerful iOS device ever made, even as powerful as some current MacBook Pros (they claim) and yet, I can't even run one single synth app without it crackling and stuttering. I first bought and tried Moog Model 15 and Layr. Then the Waldorf Nave app and some free "Synth One" app... and in all cases, completely unplayable and unusable!

I then also bought and downloaded the AUM host and tried loading the synths in there, same thing. A single synth like Layr in AUM shows the DSP at 94% and the settings won't let me change the Buffer size because it claims "The Hardware doesn't support this."

So is this a massive known bug with the new iPad Pros and we just have to wait for an update? Or did I just waste $1800+ on junk?
Old 17th November 2018
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Moonwhistle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post
I was just about to make a separate post, but maybe I should try here first since you've asked the question...

I bought the new 12.9" iPad Pro with 512GB of storage, supposedly the most powerful iOS device ever made, even as powerful as some current MacBook Pros (they claim) and yet, I can't even run one single synth app without it crackling and stuttering. I first bought and tried Moog Model 15 and Layr. Then the Waldorf Nave app and some free "Synth One" app... and in all cases, completely unplayable and unusable!

I then also bought and downloaded the AUM host and tried loading the synths in there, same thing. A single synth like Layr in AUM shows the DSP at 94% and the settings won't let me change the Buffer size because it claims "The Hardware doesn't support this."

So is this a massive known bug with the new iPad Pros and we just have to wait for an update? Or did I just waste $1800+ on junk?
Yeah wait for an update.

The same thing has happened before with many new iPads.

Model 15 is a massive resource hog. On my 9.7" pro DSP% in AUM will spike up to 80%. That's with a 44.1khz and 256 buffer setting. I think the new iPads will only do 48khz or above which is probably going to cause issues with anything music related until an update solves that.
Old 17th November 2018
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwhistle View Post
Yeah wait for an update.

The same thing has happened before with many new iPads.

Model 15 is a massive resource hog. On my 9.7" pro DSP% in AUM will spike up to 80%. That's with a 44.1khz and 256 buffer setting. I think the new iPads will only do 48khz or above which is probably going to cause issues with anything music related until an update solves that.
Thanks! And yeah, I was also wondering about that, can't get it out of 48Khz down to 44.1, so that must be what [part of] the issue is.
Old 17th November 2018
  #6
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post
Thanks! And yeah, I was also wondering about that, can't get it out of 48Khz down to 44.1, so that must be what [part of] the issue is.
The audio hardware in Apple's newer devices always runs at 48kHz; if an app allows you to set 44.1kHz then there will be some sample rate conversion going on. This won't happen if you use an external interface: you'll genuinely get whatever sample rate you set.

I'm not sure why you're seeing AUM say you can't change the buffer size: that should work as expected.

Quick explanation (with my iOS developer's hat on) if you're interested. Apps can't directly set the sample rate or buffer size: they can request a "preferred" rate and size but there's no guarantee that they'll actually get it, plus they have to be able to cope with iOS changing things at any time. So it may be that AUM is incorrectly reporting it can't change the buffer size thanks to another app or a bug in iOS 12.

The crackling / stuttering thing isn't something I've encountered with iOS 12 on older hardware so I'd guess that may be specific to the new iPads: I'd definitely report it to Apple because it's basically making your iPad unfit for purpose.
Old 17th November 2018
  #7
Lives for gear
Thanks for the replies fellas! I was going to wait for the refurb in all likelihood, probably best to wait until all the bugs are worked out!
I also run my air2 with my band running my mixer screen on my qsc touch mix and gig book for words etc.
I hope to run some of my Korg synths alongside at some point. Good info! Thanks All!
Old 17th November 2018
  #8
Lives for gear
 

Don't forget the 10.5" iPad Pro is still available. I have one and have run various soft synths (Animoog, Model 15, Sunrizer, Nave, Korg Wavestation, KQ Dixie) and Cubasis on it without any problems.
Old 17th November 2018
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanC3 View Post
The audio hardware in Apple's newer devices always runs at 48kHz; if an app allows you to set 44.1kHz then there will be some sample rate conversion going on. This won't happen if you use an external interface: you'll genuinely get whatever sample rate you set.

I'm not sure why you're seeing AUM say you can't change the buffer size: that should work as expected.

Quick explanation (with my iOS developer's hat on) if you're interested. Apps can't directly set the sample rate or buffer size: they can request a "preferred" rate and size but there's no guarantee that they'll actually get it, plus they have to be able to cope with iOS changing things at any time. So it may be that AUM is incorrectly reporting it can't change the buffer size thanks to another app or a bug in iOS 12.

The crackling / stuttering thing isn't something I've encountered with iOS 12 on older hardware so I'd guess that may be specific to the new iPads: I'd definitely report it to Apple because it's basically making your iPad unfit for purpose.
Thanks for the input. I really think it is a hardware thing (or all of the developers need to update their music apps to work with whatever is different on the new iPad Pros.)

Here is a short video snippet of what is going on. AUM is showing the incorrect Buffer Size, but no matter what I choose (including what supposedly is the current Buffer Size) I get the same error. It's just really disheartening to spend $1800 on something that can't even handle apps that people with older model iPads can use...

Old 18th November 2018
  #10
Lives for gear
 
Moonwhistle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post
Thanks for the input. I really think it is a hardware thing (or all of the developers need to update their music apps to work with whatever is different on the new iPad Pros.)
It's an Apple problem. They don't even give a heads up to developers for this kind of stuff. They're the roadblock in the way of iOS becoming a professional platform and there is no regard for users and developers at all.

Devs can update their apps to work around the issue but it's usually best to wait for Apple to implement a fix.
Old 18th November 2018
  #11
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanC3 View Post
Don't forget the 10.5" iPad Pro is still available. I have one and have run various soft synths (Animoog, Model 15, Sunrizer, Nave, Korg Wavestation, KQ Dixie) and Cubasis on it without any problems.
Thats good to know!
..just waiting to see how much difference the new processor makes.
Also waiting to see how this stuttering bug works itself out!
Old 18th November 2018
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post
Here is a short video snippet of what is going on.
The stuttering there looks to me like a really severe version of what you get when the processor is overloaded since it's happening in time with the UI being drawn. You mentioned Layr is showing 94% CPU; that's probably the cause.

The messages from AUM could be down to Layr controlling the buffer size: does it have an option to set the size, and if so what happens when you change it?

One suggestion: Layr might be trying to use a very small buffer size to reduce latency; that would up its CPU usage massively. If you can set its buffer size then try 256 (5 milliseconds) and see how it performs. Similarly, if it has the option to reduce the amount of polyphony try setting it to, say, four voices.

If none of that works then it may be something specific to the new iPad Pro's.

As an aside, I've found Animoog to be a particularly good "citizen" when it comes to situations like this: it lets you set the sample rate and buffer size, and it responds correctly when other apps make changes.
Old 18th November 2018
  #13
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwhistle View Post
It's an Apple problem. They don't even give a heads up to developers for this kind of stuff. They're the roadblock in the way of iOS becoming a professional platform and there is no regard for users and developers at all.
Tell me about it.

The app I'm developing at the moment ran perfectly on iOS 11 but started causing bizarre errors in the audio framework as soon as I tried running it on iOS 12. There are quite a few people reporting the same thing on Apple's developer forums, but there's been complete silence from Apple themselves. And it's a problem because they're quite likely to reject your app if it does something of that kind.
Old 19th November 2018
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Moonwhistle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanC3 View Post
Tell me about it.

The app I'm developing at the moment ran perfectly on iOS 11 but started causing bizarre errors in the audio framework as soon as I tried running it on iOS 12. There are quite a few people reporting the same thing on Apple's developer forums, but there's been complete silence from Apple themselves. And it's a problem because they're quite likely to reject your app if it does something of that kind.
The review process they have is weird. Some people get away with submitting really sketchy scamware stuff while a "perfect" app can get rejected over and over.

It's why apps become abandoned. It's not worth the battle with the review process when you're not going to get a cent for all that time invested trying to get it through.
Old 19th November 2018
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanC3 View Post
Tell me about it.

The app I'm developing at the moment ran perfectly on iOS 11 but started causing bizarre errors in the audio framework as soon as I tried running it on iOS 12. There are quite a few people reporting the same thing on Apple's developer forums, but there's been complete silence from Apple themselves. And it's a problem because they're quite likely to reject your app if it does something of that kind.
So do you think my issue is the new iPad Pro or could it be iOS 12? I just had a friend test the same apps on his older iPad which he has updated to iOS 12, and now he's experiencing the same issues as me! Leads me to believe it's the OS and not the device...
Old 19th November 2018
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Moonwhistle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post
So do you think my issue is the new iPad Pro or could it be iOS 12? I just had a friend test the same apps on his older iPad which he has updated to iOS 12, and now he's experiencing the same issues as me! Leads me to believe it's the OS and not the device...
It's not iOS 12. Layr works fine, AUM works fine. It's without a doubt the device.
Old 19th November 2018
  #17
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post
So do you think my issue is the new iPad Pro or could it be iOS 12? I just had a friend test the same apps on his older iPad which he has updated to iOS 12, and now he's experiencing the same issues as me! Leads me to believe it's the OS and not the device...
I'm running iOS 12 on an iPad Mini 4 which is much less powerful than any of the iPad Pros. I've currently got Animoog and Nave installed on it, and both of these run stand-alone without problems.

You mentioned in your first post that you couldn't run even one single app without problems. Just to check, are you literally just running Nave (for example), playing notes and hearing the kind of stuttering that was evident in the video? If not, does it happen if you hold down some notes and switch pages (e.g. Wave to Filter & Env)? How about if you have background audio enabled, set the keyboard mode to Poly Hold on the Mode & Keys page, play some notes then swipe up to display the App Switcher? Or does it only happen when you start using the apps as plug-ins within AUM?

If both you and your friend can get the stuttering with just a single app running on different devices (particularly if one of them is an older generation iPad) then it points to a bug in iOS 12 that's getting triggered by some specific set of circumstances that I haven't yet encountered on my iPad. If it only happens when you're using the apps as plug-ins inside AUM then it's more likely an issue with AUM.
Old 19th November 2018
  #18
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanC3 View Post
I'm running iOS 12 on an iPad Mini 4 which is much less powerful than any of the iPad Pros. I've currently got Animoog and Nave installed on it, and both of these run stand-alone without problems.

You mentioned in your first post that you couldn't run even one single app without problems. Just to check, are you literally just running Nave (for example), playing notes and hearing the kind of stuttering that was evident in the video? If not, does it happen if you hold down some notes and switch pages (e.g. Wave to Filter & Env)? How about if you have background audio enabled, set the keyboard mode to Poly Hold on the Mode & Keys page, play some notes then swipe up to display the App Switcher? Or does it only happen when you start using the apps as plug-ins within AUM?

If both you and your friend can get the stuttering with just a single app running on different devices (particularly if one of them is an older generation iPad) then it points to a bug in iOS 12 that's getting triggered by some specific set of circumstances that I haven't yet encountered on my iPad. If it only happens when you're using the apps as plug-ins inside AUM then it's more likely an issue with AUM.
Yes, I'm literally just opening and running Nave, playing notes, and hearing the extreme stuttering. Nothing else running, no other apps open. If I hold down notes and switch pages, open menus, it gets worse. Nave is not as bad as the Moog Model 15 app or the Layr App, but it still happens. Oddly though, it happens when I load these in the Aum app, but it's not as bad when Aum is hosting. It's worse when I'm using the synth apps stand-alone! That's what's been really baffling me.
Old 20th November 2018
  #19
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post
Yes, I'm literally just opening and running Nave, playing notes, and hearing the extreme stuttering. Nothing else running, no other apps open. If I hold down notes and switch pages, open menus, it gets worse. Nave is not as bad as the Moog Model 15 app or the Layr App, but it still happens. Oddly though, it happens when I load these in the Aum app, but it's not as bad when Aum is hosting. It's worse when I'm using the synth apps stand-alone! That's what's been really baffling me.
Now that is really weird.

If it was just happening on your new iPad then I'd say it was definitely a problem with the new generation of iPads. But you say it's happening on an older device belonging to your friend as well, which makes me think it must be an iOS bug. Do you know exactly which model of iPad your friend has?

The only other thing I can think of would be to restart your iPad (Settings > General > Shutdown or whatever the button combination is on the new machines, then power it back on with the top button) to completely reset the audio hardware and software and then try Nave immediately after it starts up.

Have you tried it with an external audio interface?

I've just had a look on Apple's developer forums and I can't see anyone reporting problems of this kind for the current version of iOS 12 or the betas.
Old 20th November 2018
  #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanC3 View Post
Now that is really weird.

If it was just happening on your new iPad then I'd say it was definitely a problem with the new generation of iPads. But you say it's happening on an older device belonging to your friend as well, which makes me think it must be an iOS bug. Do you know exactly which model of iPad your friend has?

The only other thing I can think of would be to restart your iPad (Settings > General > Shutdown or whatever the button combination is on the new machines, then power it back on with the top button) to completely reset the audio hardware and software and then try Nave immediately after it starts up.

Have you tried it with an external audio interface?

I've just had a look on Apple's developer forums and I can't see anyone reporting problems of this kind for the current version of iOS 12 or the betas.
I think my friend has a much older iPad, and it's probably a separate issue (he tried the Synth One app and Layr.) I've already tried restarting my iPad, etc.

I do have to say though, Apple Support is on it! They called me earlier today and had me turn on the Diagnostic setting on my iPad, which then said "Waiting for Apple Support". She was then able to connect to my iPad and then had me run the apps while my iPad gathered the Diagnostic data, which I was then able to send off to her and the Engineering team. So I await their results of what they think is the issue based on this generated report. I'll, of course, let you all know in here what they find.
Old 20th November 2018
  #21
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post
I'll, of course, let you all know in here what they find.
Thanks. I'd be very interested to hear what they do find.
Old 20th November 2018
  #22
Lives for gear
 
crufty's Avatar
i have an older iPad Pro, and they are wonderful. I’ve never had any issues although I’m not going crazy w/multiple apps running either. So I was all set to say go for it—but upon reading, the feedback here, I’d pause a second.

Many apple stores—if one is near by—will have genius bars that offer training, and usually there is some kind of music training which would include iPads as well as macbooks. I’d say go to one of those and try it out. IIRC the training is free. I was rapping with a trainer before one of the sessions and the guy was super knowledgeable, explaining how even though ipads don’t have force touch there are some simulations based on vibrations etc.
Old 25th November 2018
  #23
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanC3 View Post
Thanks. I'd be very interested to hear what they do find.
Ok, so a quick update: After sending Apple my Diagnostic Log files, and them spending a few days with them and testing, my Support person called back to say that it looks like there is definitely an incompatibility issue with the new iPad Pro hardware and these particular apps I'm using. She was actually quite baffled and a bit embarrassed as she profusely apologized. She asked if I could contact the App Developers and explain what's going on, give them my Apple Case number, and have them contact their Apple Support Engineer to help figure out what is actually causing this issue (because apparently, Apple doesn't know.) So I've contacted Moog, and the makers of Layr, AUM and the volunteer free app Synth One by AudioKit Pro (who are actually the only ones that have contacted me back so far, but unfortunately, they don't have the resources to test on a new iPad Pro.)

So that's where I'm at for the moment...
Old 25th November 2018
  #24
Here for the gear
 

Ok, seems to be a bug for all new iPad pro's...See here:

Gen 3 iPad pro users: Have you noticed significant CPU spikes? — Audiobus Forum

Must be an IOS (once again) issue...

Last edited by crony; 25th November 2018 at 03:50 PM..
Old 25th November 2018
  #25
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post
...have them contact their Apple Support Engineer to help figure out what is actually causing this issue (because apparently, Apple doesn't know.)
Here's a guess: the A12X SOC in the new iPad Pros has four high efficiency cores and four high performance cores. For some reason iOS is running the apps on the high efficiency cores, and they don't have enough performance. Hence the very high CPU utilisation and the audio dropouts: the calculations for each audio buffer may not complete before the next buffer is required, and the situation is made worse if the app is doing anything else such as drawing its UI. iOS should be running the apps on the high performance cores, but some sort of bug specific to the new iPad Pros is preventing that happening.

if it is this then it's not a question of developers needing to update their apps, it's one for Apple.

Edit: I see some of the folks on the Audiobus forum thread that crony linked to are thinking the same thing.
Old 25th November 2018
  #26
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanC3 View Post
Here's a guess: the A12X SOC in the new iPad Pros has four high efficiency cores and four high performance cores. For some reason iOS is running the apps on the high efficiency cores, and they don't have enough performance. Hence the very high CPU utilisation and the audio dropouts: the calculations for each audio buffer may not complete before the next buffer is required, and the situation is made worse if the app is doing anything else such as drawing its UI. iOS should be running the apps on the high performance cores, but some sort of bug specific to the new iPad Pros is preventing that happening.

if it is this then it's not a question of developers needing to update their apps, it's one for Apple.

Edit: I see some of the folks on the Audiobus forum thread that crony linked to are thinking the same thing.
Ooh, this is very interesting and very convincing. I just sent this to my Apple Support Engineer. Hopefully, this is something that they can confirm or at least work with. Thank you!
Old 25th November 2018
  #27
HSi
Lives for gear
 
HSi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by genshi View Post
I was just about to make a separate post, but maybe I should try here first since you've asked the question...

I bought the new 12.9" iPad Pro with 512GB of storage, supposedly the most powerful iOS device ever made, even as powerful as some current MacBook Pros (they claim) and yet, I can't even run one single synth app without it crackling and stuttering. I first bought and tried Moog Model 15 and Layr. Then the Waldorf Nave app and some free "Synth One" app... and in all cases, completely unplayable and unusable!

I then also bought and downloaded the AUM host and tried loading the synths in there, same thing. A single synth like Layr in AUM shows the DSP at 94% and the settings won't let me change the Buffer size because it claims "The Hardware doesn't support this."

So is this a massive known bug with the new iPad Pros and we just have to wait for an update? Or did I just waste $1800+ on junk?
They probably run on a single core.
Old 25th November 2018
  #28
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HSi View Post
They probably run on a single core.
I wondered about that. It seemed unlikely because the audio and UI run on different threads and you'd expect those threads to be distributed across multiple cores to keep the system as responsive as possible. But the way the audio starts to stutter in time with the UI drawing in genshi's video really makes it look like the drawing operations are stalling the audio processing.
Old 25th November 2018
  #29
HSi
Lives for gear
 
HSi's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanC3 View Post
I wondered about that. It seemed unlikely because the audio and UI run on different threads and you'd expect those threads to be distributed across multiple cores to keep the system as responsive as possible. But the way the audio starts to stutter in time with the UI drawing in genshi's video really makes it look like the drawing operations are stalling the audio processing.
The UI freezing could be a symptom of a single overload, the same thing can happen with desktop computers. I'm not insisting my point, but it's possible. It would be good if all apps were spread across multiple cores, but even NI Reaktor runs on one core.
Old 25th November 2018
  #30
Here for the gear
 

Absolutely, here the GUI is always acting like you were moving into the app, even if you're not.
These spikes happens even with the previous iPad, while moving into AUM, the spikes magnitude were different if the apps used were very well optimized , or not.
On the newest pro's the priority of audio over GUI is kind of "broken".
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump