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2018 iPad Pros..Anyone buy one yet? Experiences with music software?
Old 5th March 2019
  #61
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Have you tried the Ravenscroft 275 app? Thats a pretty well liked iOS piano



Also, might be worth checking out AudioLayer by virsyn. Its the closest thing to a "gigasampleresque" rompler that I know of. Might also be soundfont compatible
Old 5th March 2019
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh View Post
I assume I could also use Dropbox or iCloud to transfer the files onto the iPad
It's not quite that easy: the app you're using has to tell iOS that it's capable of opening SoundFont files: you can't just copy stuff because there's no directly accessible file system in iOS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh View Post
alternatively I have a Western Digital wireless hard drive that could do the trick.
I doubt that would work unless it has a WebDAV server; the iPad can't read a "normal" disk drive. It'd be a good idea to take a look at the various SoundFont players to see what you need to get the files in there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh View Post
If this works it'll save me a lot of money...
If you're just going to be using the iPad to play a single instrument then the iPad Pro's would likely be massive overkill. There are self-contained instrument apps like the UVI Ravenscroft 275 piano that will run on an iPhone 5, and the current gen standard iPad is way more powerful than one of those...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradh View Post
it really depends on how convincing the SoundFont files are; we're looking for realistic simulations of acoustic instruments. I've listened to some of the piano ones and they're quite good; just need to download and test the harp samples as I'll mainly be using that. I have harp sample libraries in Kontakt and from Spitfire Audio but there's no way to use an iPad for those (no support for Kontact on iOS).
SoundFonts have been around for ages and the quality is very variable. There is a freeware editor, Polyphone, that you could use to create your own if you have a set of raw samples.
Old 5th March 2019
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlanC3 View Post
If you're just going to be using the iPad to play a single instrument then the iPad Pro's would likely be massive overkill.
Yes, I'm coming to that conclusion as well. The other thing is that I see it's possible to run SoundFont files in Ardour on Linux, which could be a good solution since I already have a laptop running Linux. I downloaded one of the free SoundFonts (from Soundfonts 4U) and tested it in Ardour; it works and I'll just have to run some tests to find what sounds best for our purposes.
Old 7th March 2019
  #64
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Imo: Get a 2017 pro model if you can. More than enough processing power for most use cases, headphone jack and a lot sturdier. The 2018 ipad is an example of small bezel design etc taken too far. It’s really prone to bending and has some fundamental, structural design flaws in that respect. For a 1000 dollar piece of kit I carry around a lot, also in bags, being too fragile is a no for me, and I am actually quite careful myself, but accidents can happen, sometimes out of your own control)
Old 7th March 2019
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StupidDisco View Post
Imo: Get a 2017 pro model if you can. More than enough processing power for most use cases, headphone jack and a lot sturdier. The 2018 ipad is an example of small bezel design etc taken too far. It’s really prone to bending and has some fundamental, structural design flaws in that respect. For a 1000 dollar piece of kit I carry around a lot, also in bags, being too fragile is a no for me, and I am actually quite careful myself, but accidents can happen, sometimes out of your own control)
What ones are the 2017 pros? The 9.7" pro or the 10.5" pro?
Old 7th March 2019
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rimisrandma View Post
What ones are the 2017 pros? The 9.7" pro or the 10.5" pro?
10.5 and 12.9. I got a 10.5 for portability but if i had to buy again id probably go for the bigger one.

I think you can get A grade refurbished ones now for a good price (practically new)
Old 7th March 2019
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StupidDisco View Post
Imo: Get a 2017 pro model if you can. More than enough processing power for most use cases, headphone jack and a lot sturdier. The 2018 ipad is an example of small bezel design etc taken too far. It’s really prone to bending and has some fundamental, structural design flaws in that respect. For a 1000 dollar piece of kit I carry around a lot, also in bags, being too fragile is a no for me, and I am actually quite careful myself, but accidents can happen, sometimes out of your own control)
Interesting. I've used and abused my 2018 pro every day since I bought it and I can witness no structural wekness of any kind. Certainly no bending either. The bezels feel uncomfortable in the hands though, much preferred the older more rounded feeling ones
Old 8th March 2019
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm2c View Post
Interesting. I've used and abused my 2018 pro every day since I bought it and I can witness no structural wekness of any kind. Certainly no bending either. The bezels feel uncomfortable in the hands though, much preferred the older more rounded feeling ones
Hi. Theres quite some videos on the 2018 being fairly fragile and complaints of bent devices. It’s also been explained why it is more fragile. All together it is to such an extent I no longer consider it anecdotal.

I really like the 2017 shape as well in terms of how it feels (although i have some mil-spec protector on it all the time so both back, front and sides are covered. ). I appreciate how Apple and other manufacturers are trying make things thinner and lighter but personally I think where we are are now with phones, tablets and laptops I dont want them to go further if it means sacrificing durability and/or features, which is what you see happening now.
Old 8th March 2019
  #69
Gear Maniac
i read about these problems, and then i read on other sites how Apple is strongly considering moving to ARM processors in Macs, and im just like.... wow.
Old 8th March 2019
  #70
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With a 2017 10.5", should the pay as you go cellular option be purchased?

How much storage? 256gb? I think you can get 512 in those too, but can that much storage be crammed into a tablet and not expect issues? The reason I say this is i bought 32gb reputable brand thumb drives the size of a stamp before and were the only usb drive i ever had that failed, but the 16 gb version of the same thing was fine. So it makes me suspicious that even if the maker claims you are good to go maybe it is simply pushing the edge of technology limitations and it may make more sense to buy a more conservative spec'd unit. Like 256gb is still pretty spacious isn't it?

Also what is an ARM processor?
Old 8th March 2019
  #71
Gear Maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by rimisrandma View Post
Also what is an ARM processor?
Its a kind of computer processor, most mobile devices and actually a lot of new music hardware nowdays make use of them. Apple's iDevice CPUs, while developed in-house, are also derived from ARM technology. Currently all their Macs make use of Intel cpus.

its kind of like way back in the day, when Apple used PowerPC chips, and PCs used Intel and AMD.
Old 12th March 2019
  #72
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Hi,

first of all my apologies for not reading the complete thread.

A long time ago I got an iPad 2 Model MTFR2FD/A for free. Garageband isn't the kind of DAW I like, I prefer DAWs such as e.g. Cubasis, but among other software I'm using the Korg synth, too.

The discontinued iPad 2 does not provide enough DSP power, but the iPadPro Model MTFR2FD/A does.

I'm using an iPadPro for almost everything, excepted of mastering.

For mastering I need at least one large display and a software mixer and/or analog mixing console that provides sub groups. This isn't a domain of an iPad. I'm doing this kind of audio work with a Linux tower PC, after importing wav files from the iPad. My Linux PC has got a professional audio quality RME card, while I'm using the iPadPro with a pro-sumer grade Focusrite Scarlet 18i20 2nd gen.

The audio quality of the Focusrite might be not good enough for all purposes and my ADAT device is elCheapo, too. However, there are no xrun issues. DSP load isn't an issue at all.

Apart from using a MIDI keyboard and a guitar synth as source for MIDI input, I didn't test usage of external MIDI gear. I don't know how well MIDI out does work, for MIDI in the iPads with the Focusrite are ok. On the iPad 2 even the Line6 MIDI Mobilizer was good enough for my MIDI in needs.

Due to MIDI jitter caused by USB and regarding the limited MIDI bandwidth my old Linux PC was equipped with two PCI and one PCIe MIDI interface and my new Linux PC is equipped with one PCI and one PCIe MIDI interface. More than just one MIDI out is better than just a single MIDI out and USB isn't the best choice for MIDI.

Power consumption isn't an issue anymore. It was an issue when using the iPad 2, since the camera connection kid doesn't allow loading while using the Focusrite and even without the Focusrite, when loading is possible, the iPad 2 needs way too much power.

For the iPadPro I'm using the Apple USB-C Digital AV Multiport Adapter, so it's possible to connect the Focusrite and to load the iPadPro. When using the iPadPro a whole day the battery load just drops from 100% to still > 90% even under high DSP load. The HDMI port seems to gain nothing, but I didn't spend time with the settings, perhaps I'm mistaken.

The iPadPro suffers from a few minor hickups. Paired with the Pencil battery load could become an issue. Some software still suffers from annoying issues, apart from bugs, file sharing still could be a PITA.

I dislike some parts of Apple's company policy, but in my short experiences with using the iPadPro mainly for MIDI work I'm pleased with it.

When using the iPad 2 for audio recordings with Cubasis I experienced loss of recorded audio tracks. I haven't done much audio recordings with the iPadPro yet, so I don't know if the iPadPro suffers from this issue, too.

My 2 Cents,
Ralf
Old 12th March 2019
  #73
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manalishi's Avatar
Hi Ralf - thanks for sharing. I'm still undecided about upgrading to the Pro.

Could I ask a favour? If you don't mind running the superpowered latency checker - Test iOS and Android Audio Latency with Superpowered Latency Test App - could you let me know what figure you get?

Latency is the #1 reason that I would upgrade. I have a 2018 'regular' iPad which I found quite cheaply, after ditching my old iPad 3. But I keep checking used iPad Pro prices; would love to get latency down to about 5ms on an iPad.
Old 13th March 2019
  #74
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Measuring roundtrip latency from device microphone to device speaker is completely bogus for several reasons. One reasons is, that even a system with unoptimized threading, broken power saving handling etc. easily provides good results when not under heavy DSP load. Underruns/overruns happen under real world usage.

At 48 kHz sample rate, 256 frames/period, 2 periods/buffer you get around 10 ms latency. On an iOS device you can change the sample rate and the frames/period, not the period/buffer, but it anyway doesn't make much sense to chose another value than 2.

Btw. the claim that "Digital instruments begin to feel "natural" with roundtrip audio latency under 10 milliseconds" is nonsense. A church organists has to deal with several times more latency. Sure, for drumming 10 ms already could be too much latency. The best way to work around latency, when recording vocals or non-virtual instruments is zero latency monitoring, e.g. by using an analog mixing console.

How low you could go when using an iPadPro depends on what you are doing. I doubt that there are a lot of use cases when the iPadPro is unable to stay with 256 frames/period at 48 kHz.

For a very high DSP load audio session AUM is set to 512 frames/period on my device.
However, usually 128 frames/period at 48 kHz, around 5 ms should work, too. 64 frames/period at 48 kHz, around 3 ms unlikely do work.

I'm willing to do this measurement, but if I try to run the latency test, I get a message.

"Untrusted Enterprise Developer
"iPhone Distribution: iMect Szolgaltato Beteti Tarsasag" has not been trusted on this iPad. Until this developer has been trusted, their enterprise apps will not be available for use."
Old 13th March 2019
  #75
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Almy's Avatar
manalishi, I couldn't pass up on the 2018 9.7 price either. Such a great deal.
Old 13th March 2019
  #76
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manalishi's Avatar
Yes, the 2018 is a bargain. Only Apple's gouging for the CCK thingy makes it painful!

Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxaudio View Post
Measuring roundtrip latency from device microphone to device speaker is completely bogus for several reasons. One reasons is, that even a system with unoptimized threading, broken power saving handling etc. easily provides good results when not under heavy DSP load. Underruns/overruns happen under real world usage.

At 48 kHz sample rate, 256 frames/period, 2 periods/buffer you get around 10 ms latency. On an iOS device you can change the sample rate and the frames/period, not the period/buffer, but it anyway doesn't make much sense to chose another value than 2.

Btw. the claim that "Digital instruments begin to feel "natural" with roundtrip audio latency under 10 milliseconds" is nonsense. A church organists has to deal with several times more latency. Sure, for drumming 10 ms already could be too much latency. The best way to work around latency, when recording vocals or non-virtual instruments is zero latency monitoring, e.g. by using an analog mixing console.

How low you could go when using an iPadPro depends on what you are doing. I doubt that there are a lot of use cases when the iPadPro is unable to stay with 256 frames/period at 48 kHz.

For a very high DSP load audio session AUM is set to 512 frames/period on my device.
However, usually 128 frames/period at 48 kHz, around 5 ms should work, too. 64 frames/period at 48 kHz, around 3 ms unlikely do work.

I'm willing to do this measurement, but if I try to run the latency test, I get a message.

"Untrusted Enterprise Developer
"iPhone Distribution: iMect Szolgaltato Beteti Tarsasag" has not been trusted on this iPad. Until this developer has been trusted, their enterprise apps will not be available for use."
Found a result for the latency for the iPad Pro, and it's no better than the iPad at 10ms or so. Earlier iPads on earlier iOS versions were significantly lower.

It (latency) does matter to me. I know it doesn't matter to everyone, and the tests over at - Blind testing a 10 ms Timing Difference (2-way) - let people test their own sensitivity to timing. I'm no drummer, my musical brain is based on playing guitar for years, but 10ms is marginal and 20ms is out of the question. I know that a church organists has problems with delays, but then they have no alternative other than to train themselves for it.

With a 2008 Core2Duo Mac and Logic, I've got pretty tight latency for recording. It's disappointing that £1500 iPads with no slow-moving parts and a slimmer OS can't get there.

I might try AUM as there's some Measurement Mode that supposedly flips an iOS setting to be more responsive to digital audio. I also have an RME FireFace UFX coming soon, and that will also work with the iPad CCK, so I will see if there's enough improvement.

(Anyway, I'll shut up now as this is not directly iPad Pro related! )
Old 13th March 2019
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manalishi View Post
Anyway, I'll shut up now as this is not directly iPad Pro related!
IMO it isn't off-topic.

It's quite easy to ignore latency when doing some clean master class shredding. Latency is an issue, if you play something you carry under your heart, hence my pointer to an analog mixing console. Btw. I own analog guitar gear with a speed of light latency, as well as digital guitar gear with a 5 ms latency. The speed of light latency, as well as the 5 ms latency needs to be added to the latency of the digital recording gear.
Old 17th March 2019
  #78
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Hi,

I posted a summary of serious issues I experience with Cubasis on an iPadPro at AUDIO DISSAPEARS - www.steinberg.net.
It also contains the Models of my iPads without a copy and paste error.
In reply to a the thread "audio disappears" I posted the following.

I made a lot of audio recordings with an iPad 2.

After making a few recordings, it very often happened that audio recordings disappeared. They are not left in any folder, including trash.

The time consuming workaround I used, was to take a snapshot after each important audio recording and to restore from the snapshot after loss of an audio recording. My impression is, that renaming the project after taking the snapshot does reduce the rate, when losses happen a little bit.

IIRC editing an audio recording never caused loss.

I migrated to an iPadPro, but didn't do a lot of audio recordings, so I don't know if the issue persists.

Off-topic:

The only good news is, that no underruns/overruns happen when using the iPadPro, there are absolutely no DSP/CPU load issues.

However, there are several other Cubasis bugs on the iPadPro:

- The MiniSampler is out of tune, a workaround is to use AudioLayer.
- The Micrologue Arp swing option does randomly change values, if it's not set to 0. The count of voices does also change randomly. A workaround is to freeze Micrologue tracks right after adjusting the values.
- Loop play usually does not play all audio recordings inside the loop, which renders the above mentioned workaround useless.
- MIDI tracks, especially when used with whatever IAA app often don't play all recorded notes. A workaround is to repeat an audio recording until all notes were played.
- To avoid that audio recordings are recorded out of sync, it's often required to start the recording at bar 1.1.1, even if it's wanted to just record from bar 327.1.1 to bar 335.1.1. There's no practicable workaround, since the finest possible step to move an audio recording is still way too coarsely.
- Importing exported MIDI files could be a PITA. A workaround seems to be to just keep a single MIDI track, IOW to delete all other MIDI tracks and to just export this single MIDI track, then to restore from a snapshot and to repeat this again and again for each MIDI track. This workaround still requires to adjust volume after importing separated exported MIDI tracks, but at least MIDI tracks aren't merged randomly.
- Apropos volume, neither by using a finger, nor by using an averaged touchscreen pen or by using the Apple Pencil 2, it's possible to set values such as volume exactly to a desired value.
- The amount of audio tracks that are played is limited, even if underruns/overruns and DSP/CPU load are no issue at all.

There are way more bugs, the above are just those who render Cubasis more or less useless. Other bugs, such as changing the sample rate sometimes is only possible after a shutdown, are less important to me. I only want to add one more serious annoyance, resp. ask for a feature.

Since it easily happens that recordings inside a track are moved by accident, it would be good, if at least a whole track could be locked or better, if each individual recording on an audio or MIDI track could be locked/unlocked at a position in the timeline.

iPad 2 Model MC770FD/A, iOS 9.3.5
iPadPro Model MTFR2FD/A, iOS 12.1.4

Cubasis 2.7

Used with the integrated audio devices, or a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20.

Regards,
Ralf
Old 17th March 2019
  #79
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Does it make sense just to get a regular ipad instead of one of the pros? The pros have more ram, but maybe trying to cram a laptop or desktop into a tablet just is not feasible at this point(?).
Old 17th March 2019
  #80
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Almy's Avatar
linuxaudio, have you had a chance to use Auria Pro?

rimisrandma, I got the regular iPad 9.7” 2018. Great value. I don’t think ram is the bigger issue, depending on what you’re doing. But I could see having to work around the 32gb memory being a challenge depending on how you manage projects.
Old 17th March 2019
  #81
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No, given that all reviews regarding Auria Pro mention crashes, it's too expensive for my taste. The mixer looks way better than Cubasis' mixer. The basic information OTOH is more or less the same as for Cubasis.

However, hopefully Steinberg replies to Limited amount of audio tracks - www.steinberg.net.

I can't migrate the project that suffers from the audio track limitation to another DAW yet, since it still requires some work I only can do with Cubasis.

I'm interested in reports regarding Auria Pro.
Old 18th March 2019
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Almy View Post
linuxaudio, have you had a chance to use Auria Pro?

rimisrandma, I got the regular iPad 9.7” 2018. Great value. I don’t think ram is the bigger issue, depending on what you’re doing. But I could see having to work around the 32gb memory being a challenge depending on how you manage projects.
I think you can get 128gb in that model. Im just thinking, in terms of tablets, going "all in" to get a good performing unit, may not be the best approach if it is mainly intended for audio recording ... at this point in time. And a regular ipad would fit the bill even though there is better spec'd units, and the "better units" may not actually be the better unit or choice in this case and this point in time.
Old 19th March 2019
  #83
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I bought a 12.9" 2018 iPad Pro, replacing my Mac in the studio. I'm using it for Ultralite mixer control, control of 2 H9s, DAW (Auria Pro and Cubasis 2) as well as an effects channel(s).

I haven't done any recording yet other than to verify it works in a multi-channel setting and providing reasonable verisimilitude. Looking forward to getting down and dirty with this sexy setup, but unfortunately I am probably as busy as I've ever been right now. So it's kind of a weird time to be switching over to a new paradigm of recording, etc but c'est la vie.

For me, the thing I like best is the tactile nature of interacting with the mixer faders and whatnot; it's much faster and more intuitive than reaching for a mouse and pinpointing things with a cursor.

Also, the audio interface and iPad take up a ridiculously small footprint so it's able to be right at hand without forcing it to be more prominent than instruments.

However, I haven't gotten rid of my Mac Mini and actually plan to re-incorporate at a later date when I've sorted out what the iPad Pro excels at and what tasks can be offloaded ...
Old 26th May 2019
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rimisrandma View Post
Does it make sense just to get a regular ipad instead of one of the pros? The pros have more ram, but maybe trying to cram a laptop or desktop into a tablet just is not feasible at this point(?).
If you're looking for best bang for buck used iPad Pro or 2019 regular iPad is your best bet ...

If you're looking for something beautiful and powerful and future proofed for years with Pencil 2 support, you get 2018 iPad Pro or wait for 2019 minor update and don't look back ...

No matter what iPad you have, there's so many reasons now to have one in the studio ...
Old 26th May 2019
  #86
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Best bang for buck is Mini 5 and Air 3, both have thd Pro CPU but stillretain lightning and earphone socket, cheaper than pros and still support pencil.
Old 2nd June 2019
  #87
Gear Head
I got a 256gb 10.5" from Apple refurb for something in the region of £550 and it's incredible. I absolutely love that thing. I throw a load of apps through AUM using plenty of plugins per channel and it never flinches.
Old 2nd June 2019
  #88
HSi
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Anyone run audulus on one yet? It's modular software, always a good way to Max the cpu to see how far it goes..
Old 8th June 2019
  #89
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Anyone excited about iPad OS? Direct connections to flash/hard drives? We’re multiple dongles/adapters needed otherwise?
Old 8th June 2019
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HSi View Post
Anyone run audulus on one yet? It's modular software, always a good way to Max the cpu to see how far it goes..
That would be good to know, I used Zmors with my current 1st gen iPad Pro 12.9 and it handled fairly well. I’ve owned Audulus for a bit but never used it since I haven’t yet shelled out for an ES-8. Its pricey and I’ve got little rack space.
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