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iPad Pro (2018) with USB-C DAW Software
Old 2 weeks ago
  #1
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iPad Pro (2018) with USB-C

Game Changer? Will the major DAWs come to the table like Adobe did with Photoshop?

Thinking about picking one up now...
Old 2 weeks ago
  #2
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me too.
I still have a very old ipad2 and now it's time for an update.
Depending on what the new ipad pro can contribute to my music applications I have to choose the right model.
Yesterday I watched the announcement but I was wondering that music application have not even been mentioned.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #3
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Quartermass's Avatar
 

aaaannnddd...more "courage". RIP iPad headphone jack. enter future clusterdongle. looks sharp otherwise. pretty pricey for the 1tb versions, though. cheers.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #4
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Duke Murdock's Avatar
Pretend I live under a rock.... with an iPad 1....what’s all the hype about?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #5
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I just read that the usb-c port will be limited and not have a file system. also no thunderbolt 3. damn...

I was hoping I could just hot swap with my MBP via my current usb-c hub. guess not
Old 2 weeks ago
  #6
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robotunes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkung View Post
Game Changer? Will the major DAWs come to the table like Adobe did with Photoshop?
I seriously doubt major DAWs come:
  • iPad sales have been slowing for a while; OS updates can screw up apps
  • In this price-warped ecosystem, $30 apps are considered prohibitively expensive. If you're not selling a couple of $1.99 add-ons every month, it's not worth the hassle.
  • Apple has repeatedly shown little regard for 3rd-parties' business roadmaps. Frequent OS updates come with decisions that can break your workflow, necessitating frequent updates by a tech team that will be taken away from more profitable work — a process that costs you money without bringing in additional iOS income. The disappearance of the headphone jack is the latest big example.
  • Apple takes 30% of all your sales.
I could go on but I think you get the picture. Native Instruments, Ableton, etc., would need to partner with an appmaker like Novation does and proceed not with the hopes of getting rich but of collecting customer data. Not sure how much that's worth it to them. There are other ways to collect customer data while controlling your own ecosystem (Roland Cloud, for example).

Not knocking Apple. .I love, love, love my iOS apps. If I had the cash for a dedicated music iPad Pro, I'd be all over it. Happy with my iPad Air and iPad 2. Lots of inspiring stuff and more coming, I hope.

But as with everything, newcomers should jump into it only if you're content with what's already there, not in hopes something even better is coming down the pipe.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7
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robotunes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Murdock View Post
Pretend I live under a rock.... with an iPad 1....what’s all the hype about?
With an iPad 1, there's nothing to get excited about. With iPads made since 2015 (i.e., iPad Air or newer), you can get amazing-sounding synths that you tweak with your fingers instead of a mouse. That can be good — yay! portability! — or that can suck — why are these controls so dadgum small and imprecise?!!!

The iPad 1 cannot run newer apps, and it runs the older apps so slowly that it can seem an eternity waiting for an app to open.

Some people think it's all hype and the synths sound like plastic. Not in my experience, but everyone should use their own ears.
Old 1 week ago
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robotunes View Post
I seriously doubt major DAWs come:
  • iPad sales have been slowing for a while; OS updates can screw up apps
  • In this price-warped ecosystem, $30 apps are considered prohibitively expensive. If you're not selling a couple of $1.99 add-ons every month, it's not worth the hassle.
  • Apple has repeatedly shown little regard for 3rd-parties' business roadmaps. Frequent OS updates come with decisions that can break your workflow, necessitating frequent updates by a tech team that will be taken away from more profitable work — a process that costs you money without bringing in additional iOS income. The disappearance of the headphone jack is the latest big example.
  • Apple takes 30% of all your sales.
I could go on but I think you get the picture. Native Instruments, Ableton, etc., would need to partner with an appmaker like Novation does and proceed not with the hopes of getting rich but of collecting customer data. Not sure how much that's worth it to them. There are other ways to collect customer data while controlling your own ecosystem (Roland Cloud, for example).

Not knocking Apple. .I love, love, love my iOS apps. If I had the cash for a dedicated music iPad Pro, I'd be all over it. Happy with my iPad Air and iPad 2. Lots of inspiring stuff and more coming, I hope.

But as with everything, newcomers should jump into it only if you're content with what's already there, not in hopes something even better is coming down the pipe.
With adobe and many game devs that was the case. However they all eventually caved. I doubt iPad protools would cannibalize their desktop equivalent. The downside risk is that another dev shows up and takes market share.

Beatmaster PRO vs Maschine is a good comparison in my opinion. Will NI refuse to develop on iPad Pro because of the 30% tax and iOS updates and lose ground to BMP? At what cost?
Old 1 week ago
  #9
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DirkP's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkung View Post
Game Changer? Will the major DAWs come to the table like Adobe did with Photoshop?

Thinking about picking one up now...
Ever tried Auria Pro??? I use it more than Logic on my MacBook Pro.
Old 1 week ago
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DirkP View Post
Ever tried Auria Pro??? I use it more than Logic on my MacBook Pro.
Yeah I did try it and its pretty powerful. I am just hopeful the bigger DAWs come in so I can have iOS x PC compatibility.
Old 1 week ago
  #11
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Moonwhistle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkung View Post
Yeah I did try it and its pretty powerful. I am just hopeful the bigger DAWs come in so I can have iOS x PC compatibility.

They may never come to the party, in any case:

Garageband is Logic Lite
BM3 is pretty much Ableton Lite
Cubasis is Cubase Lite
Auria is PT Lite


It would be hard to adapt full featured DAW's to the platform. Garageband is at the head of the pack for how intelligent it is regarding the touchscreen element.

Jump in, the water is warm.
Old 1 week ago
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robotunes View Post
I seriously doubt major DAWs come:
  • iPad sales have been slowing for a while; OS updates can screw up apps
  • In this price-warped ecosystem, $30 apps are considered prohibitively expensive. If you're not selling a couple of $1.99 add-ons every month, it's not worth the hassle.
  • Apple has repeatedly shown little regard for 3rd-parties' business roadmaps. Frequent OS updates come with decisions that can break your workflow, necessitating frequent updates by a tech team that will be taken away from more profitable work — a process that costs you money without bringing in additional iOS income. The disappearance of the headphone jack is the latest big example.
  • Apple takes 30% of all your sales.
I could go on but I think you get the picture. Native Instruments, Ableton, etc., would need to partner with an appmaker like Novation does and proceed not with the hopes of getting rich but of collecting customer data. Not sure how much that's worth it to them. There are other ways to collect customer data while controlling your own ecosystem (Roland Cloud, for example).

Not knocking Apple. .I love, love, love my iOS apps. If I had the cash for a dedicated music iPad Pro, I'd be all over it. Happy with my iPad Air and iPad 2. Lots of inspiring stuff and more coming, I hope.

But as with everything, newcomers should jump into it only if you're content with what's already there, not in hopes something even better is coming down the pipe.
Forget $30 or even $1.99, because Avid already has a Pro Tools product which is cheaper than that - Pro Tools First, is free.
In saying that, I’d pay for a version of Pro Tools First on iPad.
Porting some version of Pro Tools for tablet use, is likely just a matter of time. Tablets are here to stay and now that they’re getting large beautiful screens and extremely fast processors, they’ll probably start to eat more at laptop and desktop markets.
Old 1 week ago
  #13
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robotunes's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nd33 View Post
Forget $30 or even $1.99, because Avid already has a Pro Tools product which is cheaper than that - Pro Tools First, is free.
In saying that, I’d pay for a version of Pro Tools First on iPad.
Porting some version of Pro Tools for tablet use, is likely just a matter of time. Tablets are here to stay and now that they’re getting large beautiful screens and extremely fast processors, they’ll probably start to eat more at laptop and desktop markets.
Apparently Avid can't even make a satisfying iPad controller for the desktop version of Pro Tools. Even after 3 years on the market and several updates, the iPad app Pro Tools Control gets only 2.5 out of 5 stars from users. If they can't make a satisfying controller for the iPad, good luck to them porting over a DAW.

iPad Pros are beautiful and fast, but overall iPad unit sales have been sliding for the past 5 years while Mac unit sales have been steadily rising.
Old 1 week ago
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robotunes View Post
Apparently Avid can't even make a satisfying iPad controller for the desktop version of Pro Tools. Even after 3 years on the market and several updates, the iPad app Pro Tools Control gets only 2.5 out of 5 stars from users. If they can't make a satisfying controller for the iPad, good luck to them porting over a DAW.

iPad Pros are beautiful and fast, but overall iPad unit sales have been sliding for the past 5 years while Mac unit sales have been steadily rising.
You’re dead right, Avid has been absolutely useless at adopting this tech so far! It might take action from other manufacturers to force their hand.

I hear you on the sales slide on iPads, but I think for most applicatations, touch screen control will take over. I’m basing this on my own experience when I got an iPad a few years ago. When I started using an iPad, my laptop use plummeted. Only for a professional application like production in Pro Tools do I go to the computer. Everyday business/entertainment, it’s iPad all the way. The user experience is just more natural.

iPad sales may have dropped off because of price rises? And also they last a pretty long time?
Old 1 week ago
  #15
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I just checked the sales figures for the last quarter out of interest. Actually the iPad sold around twice as many units as Macs, approx 10 mil vs 5 mil.

So despite their numbers having dropped from last year, the ratio of tablets vs Mac desktops/laptops in the world is growing at 2:1.
Old 1 week ago
  #16
Gear Addict
 

Peoples just forget how powerfull ipad are since apple use 64 bit arm cpu, the more powerfull they are the less you need to buy the last version each year,

And even if music production need powerfull machine most of us don't need a modern supercomputer to make music,

The last ipad is clearly more powerfull than my 2008 intel computer that already run dozens of tracks and plugins,

As already said, existing ios DAW do the job, more and more au plugins are released and if next macbook use arm cpu it will definitly push editors to port their app to ios, perhaps even logic pro will come on ipad

Anyway, I don't need protools and uad plugins to make music, so making music production on ipad is not an issue for me, it's only a better solution month after month with each new app released,
Old 1 week ago
  #17
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~ufo~'s Avatar
What I'm interested is to see how well these Apple ARM based chips are at real time audio processing as compared to X64 chips with comparable benchmark results.
It seems to me that the things that make a great iPad processor do not necessarily make a great processor for DAW.
It seems to me that the former would benefit from dynamically throttled performance whereas the real time nature of DAWs benefit from a sort of always on processing engine.

Since Apple may be planning to put ARM based chips in their Macs. This might be a valid question whether DAWs get ported to iPads or not.
Does anyone have an idea?
Old 1 week ago
  #18
I'll be upgrading my Air1 to a 2018 Pro. The biggest issue I have has nothing to do with my iPad or apps. The biggest issue I have is a proper monitoring environment. If you can't produce quality tunes on a newer iPad with the plethora of cool apps we have now, the problem isn't the tablet environment.
Old 1 week ago
  #19
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iOS sucks. I am an apple ex evangelist. I hate them now. Having an over capable CPU and hardware with deliberately underpowered software goes against everything I believe. The hardware is top top but the software and innovation of the iPad is so disappointing. I am literally depressed writing this post. WTF
Old 1 week ago
  #20
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Moonwhistle's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkung View Post
iOS sucks. I am an apple ex evangelist. I hate them now. Having an over capable CPU and hardware with deliberately underpowered software goes against everything I believe. The hardware is top top but the software and innovation of the iPad is so disappointing. I am literally depressed writing this post. WTF
I gotta say, after some tests of apps with regards to MIDI. iOS just got a whole lot uglier.
Old 1 week ago
  #21
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To me, one thing that was holding the iPad back from serious work, was the impossibility of making precise edits with your finger. I’ve had recent great experiences with the Apple Pencil and I must say that those worries are completely gone. The Apple Pencil is MORE accurate than a mouse and thus, the iPad becomes the ultimate interactive combo of finger touch screen, which is awesome in itself, balanced with incredibly accurate input with the Pencil.

When it comes to software, Auria is good, but it doesn’t feel intuitive coming from Pro Tools. I think the iPad with the Apple Pencil, is now ready for the big time, and the space is wide open for one of the major DAW companies to make a bold move, in the way that Adobe has just done with Photoshop.
Old 1 week ago
  #22
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~ufo~'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nd33 View Post
To me, one thing that was holding the iPad back from serious work, was the impossibility of making precise edits with your finger. I’ve had recent great experiences with the Apple Pencil and I must say that those worries are completely gone. The Apple Pencil is MORE accurate than a mouse and thus, the iPad becomes the ultimate interactive combo of finger touch screen
I just want to add for clarity, that using a finger on a touch screen for editing can be fine, the problem is that the iPad is a relatively small touch screen.
If you had an iPad Pro for workspace use that is 24-40”, editing with touch would be just fine.
I’ve been using a 27” touch screen to edit in PT, which doesn’t even support touch, abc I much prefer it to editing with the mouse, which it was designed for.
Old 1 week ago
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~ufo~ View Post
I just want to add for clarity, that using a finger on a touch screen for editing can be fine, the problem is that the iPad is a relatively small touch screen.
If you had an iPad Pro for workspace use that is 24-40”, editing with touch would be just fine.
I’ve been using a 27” touch screen to edit in PT, which doesn’t even support touch, abc I much prefer it to editing with the mouse, which it was designed for.
No it wouldn't, a finger is still too wide even on a huge screen like that, you need pin point accuracy for editing, do you have pin point fingers ?
Old 1 week ago
  #24
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~ufo~'s Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle View Post
No it wouldn't, a finger is still too wide even on a huge screen like that, you need pin point accuracy for editing, do you have pin point fingers ?
I don't have pinpoint fingers, but I needn't have, since we are dealing with a touch screen and not the physical world directly.

How is it that you operate your mouse/trackball?
you also use your fingers, right?

How is it that you can get more accuracy on your mouse/trackball than you can on an iPad? Is it not by scaling of movement?

There's several ways of scaling that can be done on a touch screen. One is actually making the surface larger by zooming and/or using a larger physical screen, so that you can have the finger tracking to the content be 1:1.

Another way, which is what's used in mice/trackballs is having a user definable scaling, because there's no need for the distance travelled on the mouse/trackball to have a 1:1 relation to the actual movement on the screen.

However, you will find that this is possible on a touch screen too.
You can add a modifier or a special mode to allow the travel of your finger to be multiplied by a number larger or smaller than 1.
I use this on a DAW with touch just like I use it with mouse, trackball and trackpad.
Also, zooming in on the content helps if you need more accuracy.

Even without such a mode, I have no trouble editing audio with touch on Pro Tools using my 27" touch screen (in fact I now prefer it to trackball) nor do I feel I have a lack of accuracy using it in iMovie.
I don't have a video of me doing that at hand, but if you want I'll make a demonstration for you.
I do have this video, testing my editing speed using trackball vs touch.
It's not a perfect test, but it gives you an idea. FYI PT does NOT support touch.
It just happens to work quite well.

You'll notice neither way is perfect, there are some errors with touch and using the trackball I waste time by waiting for the tool icon to change. I certainly remember being quicker with the trackball, but even so, editing with touch on a large enough screen is quite a pleasant experience and I've few problems with accuracy. It's very useable.
I find my editing with the trackball is painful to watch and even-though there are quite a few errors when I use touch, the added efficiency makes that irrelevant. Because those errors corrected and the task is completed in much less time than it was with the trackball and I had more fun doing it. Even with more than ten years of experience with that trackball, I didn't use that flawlessly either.
Old 6 days ago
  #25
Gear Addict
 

none issue with finger on ipad, it's just about how UI of the app is designed,

for instance, editing wav file on nanostudio v1 is equallly accurate and quick as editing a wav file on any wav editor on a desktop computer with a mouse.
Old 6 days ago
  #26
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I have a lot of iPad experience. Editing precisely things such as syllables of vocals without a sharp point is tedious and slow. Yes, it can be done with things like zooming. The extra hoops definitely make it slower than a mouse though. But the Apple Pencil is so absolutely fabulous and accurate, I look forward to the day I can utilise it with a great DAW! It’s better than a mouse!
Old 6 days ago
  #27
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~ufo~'s Avatar
Totally. Selecting text on iOS is a (uhm..) drag too.
It should be better on an iPad than an iPhone but still... I blame iOS and the size of those touch screens for it.

Ironically, It’s much easier on my 27” touch screen on software that isn’t meant for touch.

I feel they should be able to improve that significantly on a full size tablet.
Old 6 days ago
  #28
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telecode's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by robotunes View Post
I seriously doubt major DAWs come:
  • iPad sales have been slowing for a while; OS updates can screw up apps
  • In this price-warped ecosystem, $30 apps are considered prohibitively expensive. If you're not selling a couple of $1.99 add-ons every month, it's not worth the hassle.
  • Apple has repeatedly shown little regard for 3rd-parties' business roadmaps. Frequent OS updates come with decisions that can break your workflow, necessitating frequent updates by a tech team that will be taken away from more profitable work — a process that costs you money without bringing in additional iOS income. The disappearance of the headphone jack is the latest big example.
  • Apple takes 30% of all your sales.
I could go on but I think you get the picture. Native Instruments, Ableton, etc., would need to partner with an appmaker like Novation does and proceed not with the hopes of getting rich but of collecting customer data. Not sure how much that's worth it to them. There are other ways to collect customer data while controlling your own ecosystem (Roland Cloud, for example).

Not knocking Apple. .I love, love, love my iOS apps. If I had the cash for a dedicated music iPad Pro, I'd be all over it. Happy with my iPad Air and iPad 2. Lots of inspiring stuff and more coming, I hope.

But as with everything, newcomers should jump into it only if you're content with what's already there, not in hopes something even better is coming down the pipe.
Huh? I have been using my iPad Air w/Cubasis and iMachine and Korg Gadget for ages.. it has been rock solid and never had an issue. Mind you, i only have music apps on it. I have no games or anything else on it.
Old 6 days ago
  #29
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telecode's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by nd33 View Post
To me, one thing that was holding the iPad back from serious work, was the impossibility of making precise edits with your finger. I’ve had recent great experiences with the Apple Pencil and I must say that those worries are completely gone. The Apple Pencil is MORE accurate than a mouse and thus, the iPad becomes the ultimate interactive combo of finger touch screen, which is awesome in itself, balanced with incredibly accurate input with the Pencil.

When it comes to software, Auria is good, but it doesn’t feel intuitive coming from Pro Tools. I think the iPad with the Apple Pencil, is now ready for the big time, and the space is wide open for one of the major DAW companies to make a bold move, in the way that Adobe has just done with Photoshop.
I agreed, the Apple pencil might make using a DAW on an iPad a whole lot different. I have an iPad based setup. Based on my experience, if I only made electronic type music and used VSTs -- it *could* work out fine on its own and is, quite frankly, an amazing portable music making solution.

The bigger issue is the fact that if you dont just make electronic based music and use just electronic computer based instruments -- its not that great a solution. Plugging in an electric guitar with cables and some sort of adapter attachment make using it a little cumbersome. The same thing goes for using external mini midi keyboards. Its just the physics of it. A flat thin,fairly light computing device, moves around too much for my liking when you are trying to use guitars and keyboard with it. In my setup, its used mostly as a sctrachpad idea making tool and everything gets exported to a regular workstation and full DAW. If you are a Maschine user and do all your rhythm sequencing on NI Maschine, the ability to be able to dump iMachine projects straight into Maschine is very useful.
Old 6 days ago
  #30
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~ufo~'s Avatar
So try something like a microsoft surface studio or a mac mini with a 27 touch screen... it'll give you a more solid experience.
Tablets are just a little small and light, unless you hold it down in some sort of sturdy stand.
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