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iPad Pro + Crimson 3 + Auria Routing Mixers (Digital)
Old 4th October 2018
  #1
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GlenAllan's Avatar
iPad Pro + Crimson 3 + Auria Routing

Hello! first post, long time reader Please let me know if i'm not following any protocol properly! Thanks.

Question: I'm currently saving up to get the SPL Crimson 3, and wondered who knows what about using it with an iPad and Auria. I'll be using it with a computer as well separately, but i'm trying to figure out some applications for a live event i do.

Routing is my main question area. I'll be wanting to take sound from an analog mixing board, and sound separately from a stereo mic. I'd like to send both feeds to Auria for recording through the Crimson, but then also send that mix out to an iPhone being used for live broadcast with a separate capture unit, and then send only one of those sources out to the speaker mains (i don't want to feed the live mic back into the system).

My understanding is the Crimson does pretty decent routing. I just want to be sure the solution i've thought of is doable. Using the Artist Mode, Auria with subgroups, and routing the audio out to the two different outputs using the subgroups. Does this make sense? Have you heard of it used this way or know of any reason why it wouldn't work?

I've messaged SPL about the routing options but haven't heard back and want to be sure what i'm trying to do will work. I'll probably still get the Crimson anyway for use with the computer, but i'm quite curious about how much something like Auria allows along with an iPad.

Eventually i'd be doing all of this with an M32 (or comparable board when i'm ready to buy), but that's a lot longer to save up for!

Thanks much for any answers!
Glen Allan
The Chaos System
Old 4th October 2018
  #2
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I did see somewhere in a YouTube comment a mention of using AUM for the iPad as an audio router that can also work with Audiobus. I'd prefer to only use Auria if it can do it to keep things streamlined if possible, but whatever will actually work really.
Old 4th October 2018
  #3
The Crimson looks awesome, might be overkill for an iPad. But with a larger studio it looks cool.
Old 4th October 2018
  #4
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It'll definitely be used in the studio as well, but i am also interested in how powerful it would be for my live applications and how much advantage the iPad can take of it using something like Auria.
Old 19th October 2018
  #5
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Unless the hardware specifically has an application for setting up the hardware available on the app store (I couldn't find anything), then all routing will need to be done on the controls on the hardware itself, if the routing can't be done there, that means that your only other option will be software routing, this is something you shouldn't even be considering with something as simple as you want to do, especially considering the latency it will add.
Old 20th October 2018
  #6
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The Crimson is built for basic routing and Auria can route to subgroups. My question is just if anyone has experience using this specific combination. I'll also be doing this with the next iPad to come out, so power isn't really an issue for processing the signals. it's really kind of basic, but i know that iPads didn't allow more than stereo out for a long time and wondered if anyone has used the Crimson with it in this way.

I'll probably have to hit the Auria people up to see what they say. The new pro app they have seems like it could do this.
Old 23rd October 2018
  #7
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I have the older Crimson and everything works well in iOS and Auria. There are a lot of example routings on the SPL Website. You have to consider that the SPL is hardwired, there is no software routing within the Crimson.

Quote:
I'll be wanting to take sound from an analog mixing board, and sound separately from a stereo mic. I'd like to send both feeds to Auria for recording through the Crimson,
Works. On Auria all in and outs are available just as in Logic or on a PC.
One thing that doesn't work: you can not use both analog output pairs at the same time! It's A or A to B, so you can not route different signals to the different outputs! The exception is the Artist mode. In Artist Mode, the Speaker A and Headphone 1 outputs are fixed to monitor just the DAW 1/2 return channels.
The Speaker B and Headphone 2 outputs are switched to provide a dedicated artist cue mix, and an external talkback input signal can be routed to the artist cue mix, too.

Quote:
but then also send that mix out to an iPhone being used for live broadcast with a separate capture unit, and then send only one of those sources out to the speaker mains (i don't want to feed the live mic back into the system).
How do you want to send that mix out to an iPhone? From one of the analog outs of the Crimson? I don't get what exactly you want to do.
Still love my Crimson after all these years. The audio quality is impressive and the headphone amps are among the best on any interface.

Have a look at the diagrams on this page under the tab "Anwendungen":
Crimson 3 – SPL
Old 23rd October 2018
  #8
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I was thinking Artist Mode would be the way.

I'll have two stereo inputs which i'll want to record as 4 tracks. 1 from my board, and one from my RØDE NT4. Then create one bus mix of just the board to send to the mains for the sound of the show live. Then create another bus mix of all four channels (as a stereo mix) to go out to an iPhone with an iRig Stereo interface to mix with a live feed of video of the show.

From what i was able to gather the way the Crimson is set up i should be able to record it all in Auria and do the software routing to the busses as described and then send to the signals to the two monitoring outputs that the Crimson is wired to do. The only part that is "routing" is how the signals are separated and/or merged in Auria before going to the channels on the Crimson. In my head this makes sense using artist mode. I saw a few different configurations were possible (on the SPL Crimson page) with outboard gear and the hardware routing seemed like it could handle it as long as Auria could handle the way the audio was combined before going back to the Crimson to the outputs.

From what you are saying and from what i can find on the SPL site it seems like this should work. My question really was about if Auria and the iPad could do the internal routing to the busses and send out on the two channels the Crimson has available to receive on. With the older iOS versions the iPad could only send out to a stereo channel. But this limitation appears to not exist anymore and with the pro version of Auria it looks like it could handle it as long as everything else is talking to each other properly.

At that point, if everything else works i'd ideally like to put a channel strip stereo compressor on the live feed to the iPhone, but wait to post process the 4 channels that are being recorded to the iPad. Unless there is some processor wall with the iPad, but with the new A series chips i'm inclined to think it could handle it.
Old 24th October 2018
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlenAllan View Post
I was thinking Artist Mode would be the way.

I'll have two stereo inputs which i'll want to record as 4 tracks. 1 from my board, and one from my RØDE NT4. Then create one bus mix of just the board to send to the mains for the sound of the show live. Then create another bus mix of all four channels (as a stereo mix) to go out to an iPhone with an iRig Stereo interface to mix with a live feed of video of the show.

From what i was able to gather the way the Crimson is set up i should be able to record it all in Auria and do the software routing to the busses as described and then send to the signals to the two monitoring outputs that the Crimson is wired to do. The only part that is "routing" is how the signals are separated and/or merged in Auria before going to the channels on the Crimson. In my head this makes sense using artist mode. I saw a few different configurations were possible (on the SPL Crimson page) with outboard gear and the hardware routing seemed like it could handle it as long as Auria could handle the way the audio was combined before going back to the Crimson to the outputs.

From what you are saying and from what i can find on the SPL site it seems like this should work. My question really was about if Auria and the iPad could do the internal routing to the busses and send out on the two channels the Crimson has available to receive on. With the older iOS versions the iPad could only send out to a stereo channel. But this limitation appears to not exist anymore and with the pro version of Auria it looks like it could handle it as long as everything else is talking to each other properly.

At that point, if everything else works i'd ideally like to put a channel strip stereo compressor on the live feed to the iPhone, but wait to post process the 4 channels that are being recorded to the iPad. Unless there is some processor wall with the iPad, but with the new A series chips i'm inclined to think it could handle it.
This is how the input and output matrix looks like on an iPad Air running Auria Pro with the first generation Crimson connected:

1. Input Matrix:


2a. Output Matrix:

2b. Output Matrix:


Input 5+6 are hardwired to the SPDIF in on the Crimson.
Returns 5/6 are routed directly to the S/PDIF digital output.

The Crimson doesn't provide any dedicated physical analogue outputs from the DAW.
Hope this helps.
I haven't used the Artist Mode a lot. But the 6 outputs of the DAW means: If you activate DAW return1/2 you get 1+2 and/or if you activate DAW return 3/4 you get 3+4 and 5+6 are what comes out of the SPDIF. But you can not route DAW outputs to the physical outputs of the Crimson. Too late at night to understand what might be possible with the Artist mode.
Old 25th October 2018
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GlenAllan's Avatar
I definitely get the impression from the SPL page in the applications section at the bottom that you can use a hardware insert (like outboard gear) which would imply routing to physical outputs is possible. It would appear you use the speaker B outputs and route them to Input B. But this could just be a hardware config as you mention.

It does have DAW out to two stereo pairs, which is where i'm wondering. Perhaps the Crimson 3 offers having those outputs going to two outputs based on returns from the DAW, maybe not.

Honestly, either way i want it as an interface, and it will still record the 4 channels. Even if i can only send out one of the stereo inputs to the mains for the live broadcast it would still save me a bunch of time of post processing the audio sync.

And i still want it as a monitor controller, interface and talkback system anyway for use on the computer outside of use on the iPad. Seems i might be asking for just slightly more than art was designed for, but still not 100% on that.

Thanks for showing me those images. The links are broken on the site though. Had to link to them from the email.

Last edited by GlenAllan; 25th October 2018 at 06:09 PM.. Reason: Incorrect routing comment
Old 25th October 2018
  #11
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Yes it is really a great unit. I have a Motu with more ins and outs, but still love the Crimson after 4 years or so. It is just so great to have everything in reach and even as just a monitor controller it is great. I use the Motu with my Macbook Pro and have the Crimson connected to my iPad. One thing you can do for sure is using the SPDIF as an output for 5+6 of Auria.
One thing I understand about the Artist Mode: if it is engaged the Speaker A pair will always give out the signals of DAW 1/2 while you can chose between different options for Speaker pair B:
Quote:
The monitoring options for artists include:
1. Mic, Line and Instrument inputs in real time
2. DAW 1|2, to hear the current mix
3. DAW 3|4, for an alternative mix, with effects (a reverb, for example).
4. Any source as playback or play along
(Manual, page 38).

So it is definetely possible to have two DAW tracks on Speaker A, at the same time two other on Speaker B and - if wanted - two other on the SPDIF port.
Old 2nd March 2019
  #12
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So to follow up with what i figured out in case anyone does end up searching for a similar solution... It can be done, but not just with Auria.

While Auria (Pro) does have a decent input and output matrix, the routing is (in this case) limited. To be fair, for what you need to do in Auria itself, it works great. But it doesn't let you do special routing that isn't specifically related to assigning inputs and outputs to itself. This does actually make sense.

So bring in one more piece to the puzzle: AUM. It was mentioned above, as i had seen mention of it elsewhere. It is awesome! A bit less of a single app workflow, but i had zero issues getting it to do what i needed (sorta). Using AUM i can set the inputs to go to whatever outputs i want, in any combinations i want. It's very powerful and dead simple really, with a great interface.

Initially i thought i'd also end up needing Audiobus through IAA to link it to get sound into Auria from AUM (which is why i was worried about it being resource intensive and adding latency). But this isn't the case. The two can be used independently and simultaneously. Only caveat is that the two Apps need to be set to the same sample rate, which is totally understandable as you are setting the sample rate of the Crimson in the process.

So in AUM i route Inputs 1 & 2 (as a stereo pair) and 3 & 4 (as a stereo pair) out to output 3 & 4 (again, in stereo, but with all 4 channels) into the other interface going into my iPhone for the live broadcast. It's done in AUM using a bus channel grouped from all of the input channels. Then i take input 2 & 3 (from my board) and route them out to output 1 & 2 to the sound system for the live playback. It works great!

Then in Auria i simply route all channels to two stereo pairs for recording and mute the playback. For this purpose (just recording), there's no need to have it play the incoming audio out while recording.

I did run into some IAA Audiobus weirdness with sample rates using audio sync. But this is for a different application and for recording there's no reason to run it through Audiobus to get it to Auria. Seems there are other considerations when running syncing that prohibit anything above 44k. Still figuring this one out.

Anyway. Works beautifully for what i'm doing. And as i don't need to sync for this kind of operation i may try again using the Auria outputs so i can run channel compression on the outputs. That one will succeed or fail based on how much it effects latency. I'll test more, but it doesn't seem to add much. Initial tests at 44k doing claps showed no real delay. Should be even better at the higher rates.

So it works! The Crimson 3 is a very good interface. It even allows for easy headphone routing when using Dj software for hearing a separate mix.

Artist mode is killer!
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