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ilok safety copy
Old 25th May 2009
  #1
Lives for gear
 
mac black's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
ilok safety copy

Hi guys, this is for the pace reps

Since we pay a 'zero' downtime fee, would it be possible to match an ilok to user and have some sort of password/user activation code ?

My thought is that if a key gets stolen rather then breaks down, the hassle of dealing with each manufacturer trying to convince them that your key was stolen and they should give you a new code etc ...

I'm scared of taking my ilok out of my studio when i go and work in other places just because of that.

If i could actually 'lok' my ilok with a password and the only way to retrieve it would be to either know it or connect online, i wouldn't mind paying a bit extra for that, ie, if my key gets stolen or breaks, I'll be able to authorize a new key immediately.

Maybe even 'once a month' ilok online check/authorization system would prevent stolen keys from being used for more than a month ...

Or at least give this option/similar choice to users, please having 5 figures worth of plugins in your ilok is a bit scary.

also, one last thing ... why can we only store 120 licenses on one key ? i had a near heart attack when i was trying to download new ilok licenses and the key got locked due to trying to download over the licenses limit and to wait 24 hours before someone helped out ... which brings me to the next question... why is there no 'ilok'/pace phone numbers for emergency ?.

anyway ... have a great day
cheers
mac
Old 26th May 2009
  #2
Special guest
 

Hi Mac,

Thank you for your feedback.

Password code:
The iLok actually has this mechanism already - however it is not used by most due to support issues. Most people forget their passwords and then have a support issue. As systems have evolved and we have added more iLok.com centric license management, this feature is harder to use effectively. We can consider how to add this back into the mix. After talking with many people about this, I believe that an optional subscription model of licenses - one in which the licenses are timed - as a user choice, would be the best solution. That and, of course, an update to iLok.com.

Subscription based licenses:
Years ago we proposed monthly/quarterly upgrades to the market. It was too early and people were not used to using iLok.com yet. Waves has added something similar to this with their WUP support. Where possible we will aim to make this easier for the customers so that they can be covered in the case of lost or theft. Right now, without a call back mechanism, it is ultimately up to the vendor to

iLok Licenses:
The current iLok has a limit of 119 licenses. Just a few years ago this seemed like more than enough capacity. It still is for a majority of users out there. However, with more vendors and more products, we are aiming to solve some of these license management issues. For those with over 119 licenses, it is possible to use several iLoks on the same machine. This is not the best solution, but it is a solution.

Phone Support:
We currently handle all iLok.com support in the US (CA time) via email. We have found that email is the best way to handle iLok.com issues because we can get the proper context. Phone support is expensive and when we have tested that road, it takes a long time to get the information we need. A lot of support is "follow the instructions of the software publisher to get your license" or login/access issues (I forgot my account, password, name). We are also working to improve our support and FAQ offering in the not so distant future. Our goal is to lessen the need for support. When necessary we do pick up the phone and call users. Generally that is after we get context on the issue.
Software publishers also have support tools to handle a lot of the issues that arise with their customers. In the end, our fees are so low that phone support is not really an option. Offering phone support would force us to raise fees significantly to cover the costs of live phone support.

I hope this information helps.
Old 27th May 2009
  #3
Lives for gear
 
mac black's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Hi Andrew,

Thanks for your reply, its encouraging !

One of the best ways to protect your ilok is timing it monthly(online authorization), this would also mean that no one can steal a key and use for too long, which means that our plugin licenses would be protected and therefore we would be able to download them again even if the ilok gets stolen, am i correct ?

Thanks for your time
Old 27th May 2009
  #4
Gear Maniac
 
Agreed's Avatar
 

I am unhappy with the idea of subscription-based licenses. The reward isn't worth what we'd lose. You mention Waves' service as an example of a successful execution of a similar plan, but everyone I talk to feels rooked by that model rather than helped. It seems to me just an effort to further monetize a system that most users put up with rather than love. I am an iLok user out of necessity, but the last thing I want is further reliance on the service - my preferred usage is just to leave it plugged in out of sight and not have to think about the fact that I use it. The illusion of ownership is important to my psychological wellbeing and hence my workflow. I like to feel like I "have" my software, even though I know that isn't true. The more challenges to that illusion that I have to deal with, the less likely I am to use a given software or even licensing service.
Old 27th May 2009
  #5
Gear nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mac black View Post
Hi guys, this is for the pace reps

Since we pay a 'zero' downtime fee, would it be possible to match an ilok to user and have some sort of password/user activation code ?

My thought is that if a key gets stolen rather then breaks down, the hassle of dealing with each manufacturer trying to convince them that your key was stolen and they should give you a new code etc ...

I'm scared of taking my ilok out of my studio when i go and work in other places just because of that.

If i could actually 'lok' my ilok with a password and the only way to retrieve it would be to either know it or connect online, i wouldn't mind paying a bit extra for that, ie, if my key gets stolen or breaks, I'll be able to authorize a new key immediately.

Maybe even 'once a month' ilok online check/authorization system would prevent stolen keys from being used for more than a month ...

Or at least give this option/similar choice to users, please having 5 figures worth of plugins in your ilok is a bit scary.

also, one last thing ... why can we only store 120 licenses on one key ? i had a near heart attack when i was trying to download new ilok licenses and the key got locked due to trying to download over the licenses limit and to wait 24 hours before someone helped out ... which brings me to the next question... why is there no 'ilok'/pace phone numbers for emergency ?.

anyway ... have a great day
cheers
mac

+1 love this idea!

also, i do not like WUP at all.
Old 28th May 2009
  #6
Special guest
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Agreed View Post
I am unhappy with the idea of subscription-based licenses. The reward isn't worth what we'd lose. You mention Waves' service as an example of a successful execution of a similar plan, but everyone I talk to feels rooked by that model rather than helped. It seems to me just an effort to further monetize a system that most users put up with rather than love. I am an iLok user out of necessity, but the last thing I want is further reliance on the service - my preferred usage is just to leave it plugged in out of sight and not have to think about the fact that I use it. The illusion of ownership is important to my psychological wellbeing and hence my workflow. I like to feel like I "have" my software, even though I know that isn't true. The more challenges to that illusion that I have to deal with, the less likely I am to use a given software or even licensing service.
Fair statement.

Subscription as a choice of the user can be viewed in several ways - both would be choices.

One kind of choice might be to license the software by an annual subscription. This is a business model change. One that publishers would have to spearhead on the business side - they could do this today with iLok or non-hardware based licensing tools that we offer.

The other kind of choice is that of coverage for lost or theft. Currently if you lose your iLok or machine that is activated - it is only your word and a level of trust that binds you. The reality is that there are 100 people that want to game the system for every single legitimate person who has an issue.

How a software publisher prices and sells updates and support is up to them. There are +/- to all models, nothing is perfect.

Publishers can create rules and re-activation algorithms but ultimately you might have to call in and make your case. The software vendor is also potentially out of a sale or supporting some user who didn't pay for the softare. Sure they might not have sold that copy anyway, but that is not is what is at issue here. A user choice to have some kind of subscription coverage would allow them to make their authorizations perpetually re-activating until they report some issue like loss or theft. In that case, the publisher or a unified system could set them up with new licenses instantly based on the knowledge that the previous device would time out after some period of time. This is for the user that wants coverage and wants it on their ilok for software licenses for one or more vendors.

In addition, where legally possible, we could provide ongoing licenses even when a software publisher goes out of business. We do this now with iLok.

So, subscription as a choice for those that argue that they worry about losing it and want to be covered. Other than that and the older design issues (covered in another thread) most people don't have big issues with the iLok. Subscription as a business model for software sales that would be up to the software publishers and their customers to determine if it works.
Old 28th May 2009
  #7
TLS
Gear Maniac
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by PACE Andrew Kirk View Post
Phone Support:
We currently handle all iLok.com support in the US (CA time) via email. We have found that email is the best way to handle iLok.com issues because we can get the proper context. Phone support is expensive and when we have tested that road, it takes a long time to get the information we need. A lot of support is "follow the instructions of the software publisher to get your license" or login/access issues (I forgot my account, password, name). We are also working to improve our support and FAQ offering in the not so distant future. Our goal is to lessen the need for support. When necessary we do pick up the phone and call users. Generally that is after we get context on the issue.
Software publishers also have support tools to handle a lot of the issues that arise with their customers. In the end, our fees are so low that phone support is not really an option. Offering phone support would force us to raise fees significantly to cover the costs of live phone support.
From my experience Pace has been very poor to deal with. The response time for time critical issues via email has caused no end of stress often resulting in no communication for days. These days if something is iLok protected only I will look for alternative products.
Old 28th May 2009
  #8
Gear interested
 

hi..

My thought is that if a key gets stolen rather then breaks down, the hassle of dealing with each manufacturer trying to convince them that your key was stolen and they should give you a new code etc ..
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Old 28th May 2009
  #9
Lives for gear
 
macleodgrant's Avatar
i think the a subscription OPTION could be good but another option i think could be much better is the following

you have your ilok safely in a computer

if you go and work at someone else's place/studio, you login to your ilok account and as you launch the plugin, it loads a license from the site (like it does from the ilok)temporarily into ram or however it does it. Then each time you open a plugin, it gets authorised for that instance

another option is that you login to your ilok account and there could be an option to "authorise computer" - and the licenses are loaded into ram so you can use them for that session.

now this is the kind of service i would like to see.
i frequently travel and hate taking my ilok away because of it's value and a total inability to get insurance for it in Ireland South Africa!!!

so no-one appears to be able to help us at the moment, not the developer, not ilok, no insurance!! Waves have made a start but their policies are a little unfair (you have to have at least 6months worth of WUP)

so we need you guys to step up to the table and gives us the support we need for this product to work in a way that makes the process a little more transparent and "Paying Customer" friendly and doesn't try to charge unreasonably...

Grant
Old 28th May 2009
  #10
Special guest
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TLS View Post
From my experience Pace has been very poor to deal with. The response time for time critical issues via email has caused no end of stress often resulting in no communication for days. These days if something is iLok protected only I will look for alternative products.
'

Hi TLS,

I am sorry to hear you had issues. Without knowing the specifics I am not sure how I can directly help you. Many on our team keep a direct eye on support issues that come in and we try to prioritize. The vast majority of issues we do see are people that don't remember their name, login, password etc...or those where studio ownership has changed. Of course, most people use iLok and iLok.com with no issues whatsoever. If that were not the case. We could not continue to offer our services.

If you wish, please send me a PM with the support incident # (#SI...) and I will do my best to look into it and get back to you.
Old 29th May 2009
  #11
TLS
Gear Maniac
 

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for the offer but the issues were eventually solved, however it is not the first time it (the communication delays) happened for me. One of the incidents ended up being a bug in Pace's software which required an eventual rewrap of the plug-ins - that one took almost a year to resolve.

The point I was trying to get across is that for a company to provide email "support" only for time critical applications (if there is a problem with your iLok then you're can't use the product you paid for to do work) then it should be rapid response. One of the issues I experienced could have been solved in minutes via a phone conversation instead of days waiting for responses via email.

As mentioned, it has been enough to put me off purchasing iLok only protected products and I know I'm not the only one.
Old 31st May 2009
  #12
Special guest
 

Hi Again TLS,

I am sorry to hear you have had a problem. Without reference to the exact problem it is hard for me to comment.

I would really like to know what particular issue you are talking about. Can you please send me a Private Message via the forum or post your Incident SI#. I believe you must have had some fringe kind of issue. However, I cannot research it or comment if I am not given any details.

We offer our publishers betas, instructions and support. Of course it is key to find and fix any issues before they ship. The software publishers incorporate our technology and are responsible for the final testing.

The experience with the iLok should be transparent. iLok.com is not because it is a centralized place that allows for the activation process to be independent of the machine the runs the DAW (a requirement for this market).

Software publishers generally provide the first level of support for their customers, you. Then they can escalate issues to PACE and we can work together. In general, we do not provide 1st tier support for 3rd party products. Phone support is costly and does not give us the context instantly to support. We also do not provide support for the software itself, which is often asked of us.

You pay a significant amount for your software but only a trivial amount (think far less than credit card processing fees) come to us. The costs to the publisher of copy protection is far less than people on this forum consider. There are support costs but we are constantly working to better our products and services. Offering free phone support is not economically possible right now.

The vast majority of people do not have problems. Those that do are often account or identity related. In many cases, instructions from the publishers are not followed.

We are working to improve our online support so that we can focus on top tier support issues.
Old 1st June 2009
  #13
Lives for gear
 
JSt0rm's Avatar
have the service be like steam. No physical ilok just a log in application that can be used on one computer at a time with all your licenses. Also have updates and the ability to purchase the software right from the site. Make it just like steam and you will rule the universe of audio software.
Old 1st June 2009
  #14
Special guest
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSt0rm View Post
have the service be like steam. No physical ilok just a log in application that can be used on one computer at a time with all your licenses. Also have updates and the ability to purchase the software right from the site. Make it just like steam and you will rule the universe of audio software.
This is possible now for vendors to do with software activation. However, many DAWs are not on the internet - so this is why the iLok has been successful as an independent activation device. We are working to better our products and services so that more business models can be easily implemented by our customers - benefiting the end users of their software.
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