The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Why are iLok transfer fees so high?
Old 18th May 2009
  #1
Lives for gear
 
JustinAiken's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Why are iLok transfer fees so high?

Does PACE make more money on transfer fees or the rest of the business?

Every time I have to pay a $25 transfer fee, I feel like I've been ripped off... I try to avoid iLok products as much as possible for this - although I'm not completely iLok free, I will generally go for a iLok-less product first.

Could you please explain why these fees are so high? This isn't an angry post, I'm genuinely curious.

Especially with the cheap digidesign plugins on ebay... a $30 plugin with a $25 transfer fee... why not a percentage?
Old 18th May 2009
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Silver Sonya's Avatar
 

The answer in a capitalistic society is always the same:

"Because they can."

- c
1
Share
Old 18th May 2009
  #3
Lives for gear
 
rhythmtech's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinAiken View Post
Especially with the cheap digidesign plugins on ebay... a $30 plugin with a $25 transfer fee... why not a percentage?
thumbsup +1 on this.
Old 19th May 2009
  #4
Special guest
 

JustinAiken. Good question.

To my knowledge, iLok.com is the only place where you can resell a software activation license legally. We had to create a system that audits the rules of each publisher and product, inform the software publisher, allow them to approve/deny the transfer and complete the tracking of the transfer.

This was non trivial web application development. The fee was determined after interviewing studios and users of the iLok. If the volume was much higher then we could consider lowering such fees.

In addition to our processing fee, some vendors require approval and separate fees in order to approve.

Ultimately, our goal is to allow the publishers to stay in touch with the user of the software so that updates can be provided. We aim to keep iLok.com fees reasonable.
None of our fees are arbitrarily set. We talk to users and try to find a balance.
Old 19th May 2009
  #5
Gear Guru
 
UnderTow's Avatar
Andrew,

No offence meant but that seems like a very convoluted way of repeating what Silver Sonya wrote.

Alistair
1
Share
Old 20th May 2009
  #6
Lives for gear
 
JustinAiken's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by PACE Andrew Kirk View Post
To my knowledge, iLok.com is the only place where you can resell a software activation license legally.
Maybe the only place where you can resale an iLok.com license legally... I've used other software that was nice about transfers, and was free to do it.
Old 20th May 2009
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Native Instruments will transfer your software license for free. Ik Multimedia will transfer it for $29.00.
Old 20th May 2009
  #8
Gear addict
 
ckreon's Avatar
 

I've posted on this in another thread - but this is also something that really annoys me.

Once again, another example of penalizing the honest customers for no real reason. I have a hard time seeing it as anything other than a money-grab.

Nickel and diming paying customers FTL tutt
Old 20th May 2009
  #9
Quote:
Originally Posted by PACE Andrew Kirk View Post
JustinAiken. Good question.

To my knowledge, iLok.com is the only place where you can resell a software activation license legally. We had to create a system that audits the rules of each publisher and product, inform the software publisher, allow them to approve/deny the transfer and complete the tracking of the transfer.

This was non trivial web application development. The fee was determined after interviewing studios and users of the iLok. If the volume was much higher then we could consider lowering such fees.

In addition to our processing fee, some vendors require approval and separate fees in order to approve.

Ultimately, our goal is to allow the publishers to stay in touch with the user of the software so that updates can be provided. We aim to keep iLok.com fees reasonable.
None of our fees are arbitrarily set. We talk to users and try to find a balance.
Spoken like a true politician...
However, since this is an audio site, at least speaking from both sides does give us a stereo sound field
If I hear you correctly, you imply that the fees are so high because the recording studios you spoke to told you it should be?
If that is the case, I don't believe that for a second!tutt
2
Share
Old 21st May 2009
  #10
Special guest
 

First, my apologies for not citing Silver Sonya's quote.

Yeah, stuff costs money to make. If PACE were making that much from the publishers or more % of your software cost, then perhaps we could give it all away for free. However, building this wasn't free for us and was really based on customers asking for it as a centralized feature of iLok.com. Many users also move licenses from iLok to iLok in their account.

Most Software End User License agreements don't allow for transfer of ownership because there is no system to enforce. Of course any given software publisher has the ability (and your money) so they can choose to allow a transfer. I am just not aware of a secure way to do so.

Lastly, just a general comment. PACE doesn't mandate the rule that each software publisher chooses any specific set of activation rules. Some vendors give out a second "back up auth" for free. Some have automated temporary emergency licenses. Our ZDT is just a centralized method and a choice for users who want it.
Old 22nd May 2009
  #11
Lives for gear
 
Entrainer's Avatar
 

Actually, under the "first sale doctrine" of copyright law (US Code 17 USC 109), one can resell any original copy they legitimately paid for.

This is why a person can sell a used copy of any music cd or dvd on Ebay. The license of said music or movie was granted to the buyer, not ownership of said music or movie.

Of course, music and movie studios would love to make the resell of originally, legally purchased DVDs, Books, CDs, etc illegal, but the US Supreme Court stepped in.

The iLok can charge $25 per transfer is, as stated, "They Can". They control the access. It's the same with any power arrangement. It's actually prevalent through-out nature as well. They who hold the power get paid.
Old 23rd May 2009
  #12
So who gets the Ilok fee monies, the software manufacturer, and you get your taste for doing the transfer for them? I can't imagine it take all that much time to pull up a persons file on the server, swap info and set it up to zap the Ilok. It does seem that there is a bit of profit being made. Mind you, I am not the kind of guy who buys plugs and sells them left and right. I think I have sold perhaps two pieces of gear that I bought over the years that I did not like. Too noisy, and this is after I modded them to clean them up, so the new owners got a better piece of gear. But, it would seem a smart move to make it easy to swap plugs without feeling taken. To have to pay $25 to get rid of a $35-$50 plug really ups the cost and makes it not worth the trouble. Right up to the point of "I would not get that, it is not worth the money, but if I could get a kracked one, I would check it out". I really think this is where some of the value vs loss of sales comes into play. I do not know where the line gets drawn, and I would bet the industry has spent a fortune on trying to figure it out. For those of us goody two shoes, this kind of stuff makes my blood boil, so I apologise if I seem abrasive. Sorry!
Old 25th May 2009
  #13
Gear Head
 

you can sell an ilok'ed plug-in with out paying a fee

you can sell an ilok'ed plug-in and avoid all the ilok transfer fees:
here is a step by step how to, it really isn't that hard.

1- purchase a spare ilok that u can use for life as a transfer ilok
2- have no plug-ins on this
3- disassociate it with any ilok account
4- send it to the seller
5- have the seller associate it with their account and transfer the sold ilok assets to it
6- have the seller disassociate the ilok with their account
7- have the seller send you the ilok
8- when u get the ilok associate it with your account
9- transfer all the license to your main ilok
10- because the ilok now has no plug-ins on it you can now once again disassociate it with your account and buy some more plug-ins with out any fees.

note there is a "grace period" that steps 6-8 must happen with in. i think it is a week.
Old 26th May 2009
  #14
Quote:
Originally Posted by mix-er View Post
you can sell an ilok'ed plug-in and avoid all the ilok transfer fees:
here is a step by step how to, it really isn't that hard.

1- purchase a spare ilok that u can use for life as a transfer ilok
2- have no plug-ins on this
3- disassociate it with any ilok account
4- send it to the seller
5- have the seller associate it with their account and transfer the sold ilok assets to it
6- have the seller disassociate the ilok with their account
7- have the seller send you the ilok
8- when u get the ilok associate it with your account
9- transfer all the license to your main ilok
10- because the ilok now has no plug-ins on it you can now once again disassociate it with your account and buy some more plug-ins with out any fees.

note there is a "grace period" that steps 6-8 must happen with in. i think it is a week.
How much is two-way postage though? And worldwide...? Eventually this would not be economically feasible... if I want to send an iLok license to someone in the USA right now, for example, it will take seconds. To do it this way (which I admit works, but seems to be more trouble than it's worth) will take up to 2+ weeks in two-way shipping, plus probably end up costing nearly half of the iLok transfer fee anyway in postage, envelopes, etc.. more if you include time!

I do think the iLok transfer fee is unreasonably high though. $15 would make me much happier. $10 would make me ecstatic. Don't even ask how I'd feel if it were free.
Old 28th May 2009
  #15
Gear Head
 

you are correct that it takes time and some postage fees. but if you are purchasing multiple plug-ins from the same seller it is a very good idea, because this is a fixed cost, where as $25 per license can add up to hundreds of dollars very quickly.

also one quick not about this method, you can only re-associate an ilok with plug-ins on it to a different account with in a 15 day period. thus this method would cost time plus postage plus $40 for an ilok. still it can add up to less that the ilok fee if you are purchasing more than 3 plug-ins.

all in all i agree, the transfer fee are a bit high.
Old 1st June 2009
  #16
Lives for gear
 
T_R_S's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PACE Andrew Kirk View Post
JustinAiken. Good question.

To my knowledge, iLok.com is the only place where you can resell a software activation license legally. We had to create a system that audits the rules of each publisher and product, inform the software publisher, allow them to approve/deny the transfer and complete the tracking of the transfer.

This was non trivial web application development. The fee was determined after interviewing studios and users of the iLok. If the volume was much higher then we could consider lowering such fees.

In addition to our processing fee, some vendors require approval and separate fees in order to approve.

Ultimately, our goal is to allow the publishers to stay in touch with the user of the software so that updates can be provided. We aim to keep iLok.com fees reasonable.
None of our fees are arbitrarily set. We talk to users and try to find a balance.
Any discounts for high end users?
Old 2nd June 2009
  #17
Special guest
 

I will contact you directly about your question.
Loading mentioned products ...
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
cap217 / Music Computers
8
Krubbadoo / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
1
T_R_S / Gearslutz Secondhand Gear Classifieds
1
sidewinkle / Music Computers
0
sidewinkle / So much gear, so little time!
1

Forum Jump