The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
How much do you work with other ©-holders to stop piracy? DAW Software
Old 18th May 2009
  #1
Lives for gear
 

Thread Starter
How much do you work with other ©-holders to stop piracy?

Dongles, product activation, encryption, education and registration keys have this in common:

1) It annoys your customers (especially dongles).

2) It doesn't work -- anyone can get anything for free.

The only solution is to stop those who benefit from theft = ISP's.

To stop them, you have to put pressure on local governments. But that is impossible for one sector alone.

So how much do you cooperate with other industries?

My guess would be: Not enough!

I could be wrong...
Old 18th May 2009
  #2
Special guest
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by author View Post
Dongles, product activation, encryption, education and registration keys have this in common:

1) It annoys your customers (especially dongles).

2) It doesn't work -- anyone can get anything for free.

The only solution is to stop those who benefit from theft = ISP's.

To stop them, you have to put pressure on local governments. But that is impossible for one sector alone.

So how much do you cooperate with other industries?

My guess would be: Not enough!

I could be wrong...
We have looked at other approaches, like using the BSA, a large well armed business software advocacy group that invades a city with radio campaigns scaring people into compliance........and most often it is a disgruntled ex-employee that turns in their former employer for having illegal copies of MS Office...To participate was a HUGE amount of money and in my opinion, that is not the right approach. Nor is the way the RIAA sues your grandmother because you used her computer to download some music......

One approach is the use of hardware as a means to protect software IP...Like the UAD 1 & 2.....hardware acceleration is not as needed as it might have once been, but it is still the best way to be in the software business...if being paid for every single copie in use is the goal.

The world is in transition..the distinction between software and hardware is going to become even more fuzzy

The Music Industry is very small potatoes when it comes to leverage...computer companies benefit from having more software available.

At one time there was a conversation going around about building a " Web of Trust" where a host program would not run a "kracked" version of a plug-in. Wheter technically possible or not, or even legal, was never settled. What was clear though, that even within our own industry, we had a hard time getting the cooperation needed.

Michael
Old 19th May 2009
  #3
Lives for gear
 
jamwerks's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiiMCorp View Post
One approach is the use of hardware as a means to protect software IP...Like the UAD 1 & 2.....hardware acceleration is not as needed as it might have once been, but it is still the best way to be in the software business...l
That makes me think of the nex SSL sofware for the Duende with only a part of the processing being done on the Pci-e card. Wouldn't that be a effective dongle? For example: a Spectasonics Pci-e card specific for there products. Or maybe an Ilok stlye multimanufacture card?
Old 19th May 2009
  #4
Special guest
 

Just a side note about point 2): Copy protection using USB keys can - and does - work as a technology. The current eLicenser generation has remained (knock on wood) uncracked since around the time Cubase 4 was introduced in 2006. In the history of our company, at least, that release was the first one that went through an entire product cycle without any functioning pirated copies released. That's a considerable technological achievement. And Cubase 5 and the other products using the eLicenser (ex-Syncrosoft) like Arturia, VSL etc are also only available to paying customers. I agree that back in the day when the pirated versions were released a few weeks (or sometimes days) after products came on the market, there was little or no practical value in having it. But I do think that that's changing as the protection technologies themselves become better.

Cheers,
Angus Baigent
Steinberg
Old 19th May 2009
  #5
Lives for gear
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by angusbaigent View Post
Cubase 5 and the other products using the eLicenser (ex-Syncrosoft) like Arturia, VSL etc are also only available to paying customers.
That's nice for you, though not particularly relevant to my question -- or interesting for readers who need a general solution to fight theft of copyrighted material.

As for dongles, I personally said goodbye to Cubase and hello to Logic, when Logic got rid of the dongle.

Had you at least used an iLok... When I sit on a beach or a plane, I can easily think of other USB stuff to stick in one of the TWO ports on my Mac...
Old 19th May 2009
  #6
Special guest
 

One problem is that as CP becomes better for manufacture, it gets worse for end users....New users especially...if you are a somewhat sophisticated user you can wade through...but with a great deal of frustration.
Old 19th May 2009
  #7
Gear Head
 

It is very difficult for an organization such as IMSTA, who uses education to combat software piracy, to join forced with organizations that enforce the issue. Neither IMSTA nor most of its member companies favor enforcement.
Old 19th May 2009
  #8
Lives for gear
 
sahiaman's Avatar
 

What about the use of whistle blowers and rewarding them to combat piracy?

The whole honor system doesn't work. People download movies, music, and software, then have the audacity to brag about how big their catalog as a means to show off. And it's being done not just by teens, but adults also.

Walk into an ethnic grocery store and take a look at their movie rentals. You will not see one authentic movie, but a huge selection of burnt discs. Even non foreign movies which are released here in the USA are on the shelves. People just tend to look the other way these days, either because they want to pirated copies, or because they don't like confrontation.

There needs to be a campaign to shame those that break the piracy laws, not just sue them.
Old 19th May 2009
  #9
Lives for gear
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiiMCorp View Post
One problem is that as CP becomes better for manufacture, it gets worse for end users....New users especially...if you are a somewhat sophisticated user you can wade through...but with a great deal of frustration.
And since a lot of companies use different CP, those among us who use a lot of software are new users a lot of the time...

It should be said that some companies, like UA Celemony and Sibelius, are very good at communicating in these matters. Others (you know who you are), no so much.

Still, it is in everybody's interest to stop theft at the SOURCE (= ISP's)!
Old 19th May 2009
  #10
Lives for gear
 

Thread Starter
Quote:
Originally Posted by IMSTA View Post
Neither IMSTA nor most of its member companies favor enforcement.
And that's all very nice. Really, I mean that. But enforcement is the only thing that works when people try to steal your car.

And they do, you know. Right now.
Old 20th May 2009
  #11
Gear Head
 

[QUOTE=author;4201123]And that's all very nice. Really, I mean that. But enforcement is the only thing that works when people try to steal your car.


Enforcement would only work when there is a police officer sitting in every car. That is why there is a need for a car alarm. The same is true when it comes to software piracy and copy protection.

With education, once you change someone’s behavior to use legit software, he/she does not need any enforcement. That person will voluntarily buy the software he/she uses.
Old 20th May 2009
  #12
Lives for gear
 

Thread Starter
[QUOTE=IMSTA;4204829]
Quote:
Originally Posted by author View Post
With education, once you change someone’s behavior to use legit software, he/she does not need any enforcement. That person will voluntarily buy the software he/she uses.
It's a wonderful theory.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work. But you don't need me to tell you that...
Old 21st May 2009
  #13
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by author View Post
It's a wonderful theory.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work. But you don't need me to tell you that...

IMSTA does not attempt to eliminate software piracy. We are working to reduce it. There are three categories of software users. Those who:
  • Always buy
  • Sometimes buy
  • Never buy
Our audience is the second group. Our goal is to change the behavior of the people who buy software, but sneak a few cracks here and there. We need this group to buy all their software as they are serious about their music and their craft.

The third group will never buy. If you start enforcing the issue, they will just adapt and find ways not to get caught. This group will never become paying customers and software companies need not worry about them because they do not represent lost sales.

The second group does represent lost sales for the companies and that is why we focus on changing behavior amongst this group.

We thank all the users who belong to group one and encourage them to keep on buying the software they use.

Paul
Old 24th May 2009
  #14
Lives for gear
 
AwwDeOhh's Avatar
 

[QUOTE=IMSTA;4207511]
Quote:
Originally Posted by author View Post
The third group will never buy. If you start enforcing the issue, they will just adapt and find ways not to get caught. This group will never become paying customers and software companies need not worry about them because they do not represent lost sales.
But wouldn't making it harder... ie>making the pirates jump through more and more hoops, making it ever more difficult and sneaky to steal: Have the side effect of Average Joe pirate/weekend warrior (#2 on the list) saying it's not worth it / "not as easy as it "used to be" when i just had to click the button and poof instant [insert your own stolen IP here]"
And therefore raise awareness in a way?
Just make it "not worth it" to do the wrong thing?
Old 25th May 2009
  #15
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AwwDeOhh View Post
But wouldn't making it harder... ie>making the pirates jump through more and more hoops, making it ever more difficult and sneaky to steal: Have the side effect of Average Joe pirate/weekend warrior (#2 on the list) saying it's not worth it / "not as easy as it "used to be" when i just had to click the button and poof instant [insert your own stolen IP here]"
And therefore raise awareness in a way?
Just make it "not worth it" to do the wrong thing?


How do you suggest we do this?

More hoops would probably affect paying customers too.

There are also pirates that actually make money selling cracked software. As I have said before, IMSTA won’t get involved in enforcement.

We find the best way for IMSTA is education. Anyone else wishing to do different has the right to do so.

Paul
Old 1st June 2009
  #16
Gear interested
 

A New Way Of Thinking

United States copyright law, contained in Title 17 of the United
States Code, provides that a copyright holder has the exclusive right
to:

-REPRODUCE A COPYRIGHTED WORK
-Prepare sequels or other derivative works
-Sell, rent, or otherwise distribute copies
-Display or perform the work in public
-Transmit the work via digital audio (17 USC 106)

The worst enemy of the creators and sellers of contemporary music, movies, and other digital media are programs like iTunes, Windows Media player, and Quick Time. These programs and others like them afford anyone with a computer and an Internet connection the power of unauthorized and unlimited reproduction, duplication, and distributing of copyrighted digital media files. The current plight of the recording and movie industries does not lie with the issue of “illegal downloading” the real problem is UNAUTHORIZED REPRODUCTION. Downloading files onto a computer is actually a relatively harmless act; it is simply a transfer of numeric values from one storage medium to another, it could infact be argued that downloading a file doesn’t even violate copyright law. Where the actual copyright infringement occurs is when those files are imported into a Digital Media Player and automatically, with no restriction or any type of security check, are REPRODUCED and available to be copied and redistributed without limitation or consequence.
Mentioned Products
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Similar Threads
Thread
Thread Starter / Forum
Replies
Beech / So much gear, so little time!
3
PT6.7UZR / So much gear, so little time!
1
brad.bjmmusic / So much gear, so little time!
4
Keyque / So much gear, so little time!
66

Forum Jump