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Old 25th May 2019
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clump View Post
Yes, of course "you can be a great artist yet lack technical proficiency''...I can't believe you even question that.
You're right, I shouldn't have used the word "proficiency". I meant "skill".

In other words, you can't be a great artist while lacking technical skill. So I didn't mean you necessarily had to excel to show artistry, I meant hat without technical skills you can't be an artist, and there is a point at which the difference manifests itself.

A tone deaf rhythmically clueless person performing ROS or a violin concerto wont' be a great artist in any reasonable universe. You can say all you want that they're expressing themselves from the heart, but if music, music education and our knowledge about it all means anything then 'no', they won't be great artists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clump View Post
Art is not about "objective quality"
I didn't say that "art is about" anything, I said that it can be objectively evaluated, and that it isn't just subjective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clump View Post
and if you really believe otherwise then I'm afraid it is you who is wrong.
No, you're wrong.
Old 25th May 2019
  #242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clump View Post
Because they are not great artists?
In your view there is no such thing as "great artists", there is only your opinion and that of any other individual.

No objective qualitative difference can be draw between a song written and performed by Dylan and a toddler making sounds to a song playing in the background. They're equally valid as artistic expressions and Dylan isn't objectively better than the toddler, 10-year old, or anyone else.

It's all subjective - but it's interesting that you brought up those two guys...
Old 25th May 2019
  #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
In your view there is no such thing as "great artists", there is only your opinion and that of any other individual.

No objective qualitative difference can be draw between a song written and performed by Dylan and a toddler making sounds to a song playing in the background. They're equally valid as artistic expressions and Dylan isn't objectively better than the toddler, 10-year old, or anyone else.

It's all subjective - but it's interesting that you brought up those two guys...
I think you are perhaps being a little pedantic with your 'toddler' argument ....having said that, there ARE a lot of people who would in fact argue that Dylan is in fact no better than a toddler making sounds to a song playing in the background
.....And I brought up "those two guys" because there are many people of a certain mentality who pedal the argument that "Dylan/Young is rubbish, he can't even sing!"

The 'objective quality' in art is, I think, our sticking point here.

The guy who wins gold in the 100 meters is faster than the guy who won silver, his speed is a measurable objective quality, he is faster than the guy who came second. You couldn't, for example, say "Well yes, he crossed the line before the other guy, but I think the other guy crossed the line first"

But in art that doesn't apply, opinions vary, and all opinions are valid.

The Oscar/Grammy/Ivor/BAFTA winner is not measurably 'better' than any of the other nominees, or indeed any of the films not even nominated...they have won because a specific group of people 'liked' their work....it is subjective.

BTW I am enjoying debating with you, I'm sure we are both reasonably intelligent, but I don't think we are going to agree with each other on this particular theme.
Old 25th May 2019
  #244
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
For my wife's birthday, she wanted to have a mini Vincent Price marathon, so we watched a couple classics she hadn't seen before.
My favourite Vincent Price .... Dr Phibes.
Old 25th May 2019
  #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clump View Post
I think you are perhaps being a little pedantic with your 'toddler' argument ....
I don't think so, I think the point is illustrating that there are principles we apply when we feel like it. Nobody in their right mind would argue that a Pavarotti wasn't objectively a better singer/artist than a toddler making sounds, or a 5-year old etc. As long as the disparity is large enough nobody complains about making such a distinction. It really only becomes uncomfortable to make the distinction when we're looking at artists that are 'closer' to each other.

But the principle applies or it does not. If art can be anything and anyone can be an artist and the quality of art is all subjective then you can't distinguish between the toddler and he professional singer, it's simply not possible.

If it is possible then the question isn't "can we draw a line", it's where or perhaps how do we figure out where the line is drawn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clump View Post
The 'objective quality' in art is, I think, our sticking point here.

The guy who wins gold in the 100 meters is faster than the guy who won silver, his speed is a measurable objective quality, he is faster than the guy who came second. You couldn't, for example, say "Well yes, he crossed the line before the other guy, but I think the other guy crossed the line first"

But in art that doesn't apply, opinions vary, and all opinions are valid.
You say it doesn't apply, I say that isn't entirely true. Art isn't just something completely purely philosophical, it's actual stuff, just like running. An Ab in the key of C major is a physical relationship between two things. A singer can either sing an Ab in C major (for whatever reason) or not. We can argue over whether or not it needs to be dead-on or if it can be off by a certain percentage, but any educated musician or composer etc will understand when a pitch is right (enough) and when it's off. A tone deaf person without the ability to hit specific notes at the right time won't ever perform with a great orchestra for obvious reasons. The quality just isn't there, and we can and do measure that.. just like we measure a race.

That still doesn't mean you have to like any given performance, but there are physical differences, and there are objective quality differences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clump View Post
The Oscar/Grammy/Ivor/BAFTA winner is not measurably 'better' than any of the other nominees, or indeed any of the films not even nominated...they have won because a specific group of people 'liked' their work....it is subjective.
But there's a distinction here: I'm not saying that any award recipient is by definition "great" because they got awarded. It's absolutely possible that the jury gets it "wrong". My point was just that a) art isn't subjective, and b) in my experience the awardees have been clearly above average. It doesn't mean I loved every awarded actor or movie, but in general it's been a pretty good indicator that it is indeed clearly above average.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clump View Post
BTW I am enjoying debating with you, I'm sure we are both reasonably intelligent, but I don't think we are going to agree with each other on this particular theme.
Well, we agree on the above at least, so there's that :-)
Old 25th May 2019
  #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc View Post
I don't think so, I think the point is illustrating that there are principles we apply when we feel like it. Nobody in their right mind would argue that a Pavarotti wasn't objectively a better singer/artist than a toddler making sounds, or a 5-year old etc. As long as the disparity is large enough nobody complains about making such a distinction. It really only becomes uncomfortable to make the distinction when we're looking at artists that are 'closer' to each other.

But the principle applies or it does not. If art can be anything and anyone can be an artist and the quality of art is all subjective then you can't distinguish between the toddler and he professional singer, it's simply not possible.
But the toddler isn't a professional singer, the toddler isn't an artist.. something must first be announced as art before it can be judged as art, then it becomes art (Sorry for how pretentious this is sounding)

For example Tracy Emin's 'My Bed'...it's just an unmade bed, but because Tracy Emin highlighted it and displayed it, it became 'art'

If a brick layer lays out a load of bricks on a building site, nobody gives it a second thought, he's a brickie doing his job.
When Carl Andre laid out a load of bricks and called it 'Equivalent Vlll' it was deemed 'art' by the Tate Gallery who bought it and exhibited it.

I don't even know what I'm arguing about any more, and I have drifted wildly off topic.......I didn't like 'The Favourite'
Old 26th May 2019
  #247
Swept Away has to be easily the best movie I have seen out of Hwood in ages. This should be the bar and win awards.
Old 26th May 2019
  #248
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s wave's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolfog09 View Post
Swept Away has to be easily the best movie I have seen out of Hwood in ages. This should be the bar and win awards.
Which one? the original was pretty good... or the remake?
Old 26th May 2019
  #249
whoops I meant Adrift

Adrift was what I meant.

Mike
Old 28th May 2019
  #250
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I got sick of all the spoilers, so I caved in and saw Avengers: Endgame before it got ruined any further. It's funny how the spoilers can disrupt the plot, but they fail to capture the emotion of the moment. Also, even though I'm not a huge fan of the series, apparently I was more invested in it than I thought I was because tears were shed. Greatest movie of all time? Far from it, but I have to admit that this was quite entertaining.

Also saw Pokemon: Detective Pikachu. The wife needed a pick-me-up after Endgame, so we watched this immediately afterward. I had been wanting to check it out because the Pikachu in the trailers looks absolutely adorable, but I have no knowledge of the series. As a complete and total-nonfan of Pokemon, I really enjoyed it. The plot is a tad on the predictable side, but the visuals and the heart in this story make up for that. Fantastic acting on all parts (Bill Nighy!!!), visually amazing, and just a whole lot of fun. If you can, try to bring a 'translator' (read: Pokemon Geek) with you because there are some inside jokes that are worth the explanation. For instance, early in the movie, Jigglypuff is singing in the back corner of a club and getting mad because one of the patrons nodded off. Apparently, singing people to sleep is Jigglypuff's power, and he gets ticked whenever it happens in the games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobC335 View Post
I watched Ex-Machina for the first time the other night.
I was totally captivated by it.
Turing test vs a robot who uses her “feminine” charms for self advancement.
Was it just me?
Excellent movie. The same guy behind it did Annihilation which is also a fantastic movie.
Old 1st June 2019
  #251
OMG

Rocketman the Elton John movie is the most appalling, yet unmissable car crash of a movie.

1 it's a musical
2 the actor playing him 'sings' (?!) adapted versions of the songs

It's rotten to the core

But it must be seen.

Totally awful

But great in a bad way.

It's horrible.

I am glad I went.
Old 1st June 2019
  #252
HSi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
I got sick of all the spoilers, so I caved in and saw Avengers: Endgame before it got ruined any further. It's funny how the spoilers can disrupt the plot, but they fail to capture the emotion of the moment. Also, even though I'm not a huge fan of the series, apparently I was more invested in it than I thought I was because tears were shed. Greatest movie of all time? Far from it, but I have to admit that this was quite entertaining.
Lol, greatest film of all time? No way.

Alex Garland, Annihilation also wrote 28 days later and I believe wrote and directed Ex Machina, also wrote The Beach.. Annihilation was pretty decent.

I rewatched The Faculty, great film. Not quite up to the standards of the 1970's Bodysnatchers with Dr.Spock and Donald Sutherland.



Out now too...
Old 1st June 2019
  #253
I guess I should chime in again.

I still have a tube TV and don't have Netflix and watch very little TV. But once in a while I find something interesting on TCM or cable:

It Happened One Night: Clark Gable, Claudette Colbert (1934). I've seen this film a number of times, and never tire of it as it's fantastic. Even my 19-year old likes it. I think it was the first film to get the top 5 Oscars in one year, which only happened again in 1971.

Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter: It was on cable last night. I kind of had to watch it. Silly pretense, non-stop action. To paraphrase a comment on IMDB, I never knew Abe was such an axe-swinging, backflipping badass. There's only so much of that stuff you can take though.
Old 3rd June 2019
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeInOttawa View Post
Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter
I file that one under "so bad that it's good". That movie is so over-the-top, but it's hilarious for it.
Old 6th June 2019
  #255
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Took a trip on the wayback machine and finally watched The Omen last night. It really did defy expectation for me. I was amazed by how unmemorable this movie was. I literally just had to check Wiki the plot to refresh a movie that I saw right before bed. I have the remake somewhere on DVD to go through as well. I'm dreading it.
Old 6th June 2019
  #256
HSi
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New series of Black Mirror is up on Netflix.

I never liked the omen that much.

I watched The Guilty 2018, Danish film, well worth a watch if you like suspense films, 98% on RT. It's one of those films thats hard to talk about without spoiling it. It's all shot in one room pretty much, a police call centre. Already a Hollywood remake confirmed.

Probably worth mentioning The Hunt, the only other Danish film I've seen. It's amazing, it's about a teacher accused of being a pedophile by a nursery child and the after affects. Not a comedy.
Old 7th June 2019
  #257
I recently watched American Hustle. It's top notch, great actors, an all around great movie.

The theme of the movie is about con artists with the FBI.

Check it if you haven't seen it!
Old 7th June 2019
  #258
HSi
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First two episodes of black mirror not that great at all in comparison to any others. Maybe he just set the bar too high, the one off film Bandersnatch was really good, the wo I saw of this could have been anything.
Old 9th June 2019
  #259
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Not following the Black Mirror commentary.....not a movie. ? Anyway:

On a "date movie," I was basically forced to endure "Beaches." I'm not some macho moron who's adverse to so-called "chick flicks" but this was one in the worst of ways. Totally lame drippy melodramatic flick, topped with one of the worst songs ever to hit the charts.
Old 9th June 2019
  #260
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My wife and I enjoyed Rocketman on the big screen yesterday.

I didn't mind the campy musical style interludes.

Not mind blowing but enjoyable.
Old 10th June 2019
  #261
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Checked out I Am Mother on Netflix this weekend. This one's a sci-fi thriller kind of thing. An artificial intelligence called "Mother" uses a human embryo to birth what is apparently the last human being on earth following a huge catastrophe. When somebody from the outside shows up, you can kinda see where the story is going, but it's not what it seems. It's one of those classically-style science fiction films where it leaves you asking yourself questions days afterward. It was pretty good. I'd recommend it for anybody that's a fan of science fiction.
Old 13th June 2019
  #262
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Shazam - kind of silly and hokey - but in a good way.
Old 13th June 2019
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill5 View Post
Shazam - kind of silly and hokey - but in a good way.
It looks like a lot of fun. I'm looking forward to it.
Old 15th June 2019
  #264
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The previous movie was the MEG in 3d. It was ridiculous. Guy fist fights a mega shark.

Rented Captain Marvel. Superhero movies arent my thing, and superhero spaceman films definitely are not. It was a family movie. Space as a theme is ok , but it need to be real. Aliens, was awesome. Get the physics kind of right, to suspend disbelief. That is some of the best tricks of movies dealing with sports or military conquest. It sucks you in, cause you can believe it. You can FEAR it. Anyways..

The story was..

This is not Marvels best effort. I don't know if the lead character knew what her powers were, and the movie wasnt too crazy about telling me. At times I was thinking wasn't she super strong throwing people around, and cant she fly? Why steal a motorcycle? Anything can become anything. Machinery, a gameboy is a ET communicator .The bad guy general , is the good guy looking for a home. Plane becomes spaceship with a couple quick mods. It gets so bizarre. Brie Larson at the end is going Wheeee! and flying body first into things as they blow up. If its like that, where is the struggle. Think Friday Night Lights, fight for those inches in front of your face. Struggle , persevere, and bring an audience with you inch by inch. Not sure if anything was a threat to her. She flew through all of the nukes fired by Ronin. Fell from orbit to the ground. Lets go with etc. cause there is more.

Upside. Looks impressive with plenty of CGI explosions.

Brie looks pretty.

Jude Law seems into it.

I couldn't really follow it.

The only one of the Marvel movies I really enjoyed was the Winter Soldier. It was the least ruined by silly superpowers that are horribly unbalanced . It had its finger on the political pulse of the times. They have not recaptured that magic since, and instead go for the money grab.
Old 15th June 2019
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark1971 View Post
This is not Marvels best effort. I do know if the lead character knew what her powers were, and the movie wasnt too crazy about telling me. At times I was thinking wasn't she super strong throwing people around, and cant she fly? Why steal a motorcycle? Anything can become anything. Machinery, a gameboy is a ET communicator .The bad guy general , is the good guy looking for a home. Plane becomes spaceship with a couple quick mods. It gets so bizarre. Brie Larson at the end is going Wheeee! and flying body first into things as they blow up. If its like that, where is the struggle. Think Friday Night Lights, fight for those inches in front of your face. Struggle , persevere, and bring an audience with you inch by inch. Not sure if anything was a threat to her. She flew through all of the nukes fired by Ronin. Fell from orbit to the ground. Lets go with etc. cause there is more.
Wow that sounds even lamer than I expected thx for saving me 2ish hours. As a kid who grew up w/these stories I could also live without another politically correct "female empowerment" pile of BS, being one of these people who crazily believes in faithfulness to the source material, but oh well, that ship has long since sailed on the Marvel characters anyway.
Old 15th June 2019
  #266
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The main characters need to be afraid of something, and overcome it for dramas sake at least? Her goal was to control her emotions. As the story went on, she did what ever and it turned out fine. Lame!

If she is empowered, why not improve the story with it.

Luke had Vader.

Superman had Kryptonite.

Captain Marvel seemed concerned with the Cat Goose, but thats not fear. She paused showing only distrust. Paws'd ...Cat..
Old 15th June 2019
  #267
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ns
Old 4 weeks ago
  #268
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Derp's Avatar
I watched Always Be My Maybe with the wife this weekend. It is a very basic and by the numbers romcom. The only good thing about the movie is the bit with Keanu Reeves playing an exaggerated and ******* version of himself and the restaurant that serves meat with a recording of the animal's final minutes to listen to while you eat it. There are some really good chick flicks out there (Bridesmaids and Mean Girls are hilarious no matter your gender), but this isn't one of them.
Old 4 weeks ago
  #269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derp View Post
Checked out I Am Mother on Netflix this weekend. This one's a sci-fi thriller kind of thing. An artificial intelligence called "Mother" uses a human embryo to birth what is apparently the last human being on earth following a huge catastrophe. When somebody from the outside shows up, you can kinda see where the story is going, but it's not what it seems. It's one of those classically-style science fiction films where it leaves you asking yourself questions days afterward. It was pretty good. I'd recommend it for anybody that's a fan of science fiction.
I liked it
Old 4 weeks ago
  #270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nightscope View Post


ns
helluva review
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