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(American) Football anyone? Utility Plugins
Old 1 week ago
  #181
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There's no evidence to show that this is helpful or useful whatsoever, hence why it's stupid. Just because a kicker misses the 2d one doesn't mean it was because of the time out, and kickers make the 2d kick (sometimes after whiffing the first one) about as much as the other way around. It is, at best, a (literal) waste of time.
Old 1 week ago
  #182
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I'm sure there's stats on this. After watching 50+ years of football, I don't have a clue whether it works or not.
Old 1 week ago
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire View Post
I'm sure there's stats on this. After watching 50+ years of football, I don't have a clue whether it works or not.
Yes, but it's incremental.

Mixpanel’s game theory: Does icing the kicker work? - Mixpanel
Old 1 week ago
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bambamboom View Post
+1000000000000000000
Last season was the ultimate underdog story. What a special, special experience as a lifelong Eagles fan. If anyone can pull that off again it is the one known to fans as "BigDickNick"

#FlyEaglesFly
It would be quite the story if Foles wins another one, and leaves next year.

Very few would have the demeanor to handle his situation as well as he did. I remember when Steve Young backed up Montana, and the tension was so thick you could cut it with a knife. Foles is so chill, it says a lot about him. Easy guy to root for.
Old 1 week ago
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
It would be quite the story if Foles wins another one, and leaves next year.

Very few would have the demeanor to handle his situation as well as he did. I remember when Steve Young backed up Montana, and the tension was so thick you could cut it with a knife. Foles is so chill, it says a lot about him. Easy guy to root for.
We don't talk about Steve Young around here.
Old 1 week ago
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill5 View Post
There's no evidence to show that this is helpful or useful whatsoever, hence why it's stupid. Just because a kicker misses the 2d one doesn't mean it was because of the time out, and kickers make the 2d kick (sometimes after whiffing the first one) about as much as the other way around. It is, at best, a (literal) waste of time.
They showed that t was tipped by Hester.
Old 1 week ago
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire View Post
We don't talk about Steve Young around here.
I really laughed when ii read this
Old 1 week ago
  #188
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Me too lol
Old 1 week ago
  #189
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IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bill5 View Post
There's no evidence to show that this is helpful or useful whatsoever, hence why it's stupid. Just because a kicker misses the 2d one doesn't mean it was because of the time out, and kickers make the 2d kick (sometimes after whiffing the first one) about as much as the other way around. It is, at best, a (literal) waste of time.
The game is on the line, and it costs you nothing. Your game is already in the hands of the other team. It's an attempt to play with the kickers nerves. You have nothing else at that stage. Doesn't matter how stupid you think it is, that's why it's done. It's an easy decision, you have nothing to lose.

Don't know if you're a betting man, but if there's a gamble with zero chance of a loss, I'd take it 100% of the time.

It's also psychological for the coach‘s emotions. There's nothing else you can do to help your team, but this might. Even if there's only a remote chance it could help, do you not do it?

Last edited by IM WHO YOU THINK; 1 week ago at 03:25 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #190
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You either didn't read or didn't get what I wrote earlier (basically that there's just as much chance that this harms your team vs helping it) but no point in going in circles on this; if you're determined to get the last word, knock yourself out, I'm done w/this.

Onto the games. I just hope they're good ones.
Old 1 week ago
  #191
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The kicker spends most of the game on ice.

They're use to waiting around. Another time out isn't going to change much.

I would think the odds of missing on the first kick would be about the same as the second.

The batter in a baseball game probably has a better record on the second pitch than the first.
Old 1 week ago
  #192
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10 NFL players who disappointed in 2018

Hmm, I wonder who number 1 is?
Old 1 week ago
  #193
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Surprised Suh didn't make the list.

Is there a good "went way beyond expectations" list out there? I can see guys like Lindsey and Ebron on the list.
Old 1 week ago
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sounds Great View Post
The kicker spends most of the game on ice.

They're use to waiting around. Another time out isn't going to change much.

I would think the odds of missing on the first kick would be about the same as the second.

The batter in a baseball game probably has a better record on the second pitch than the first.
Well, your thesis on why it doesn't work isn't needed. I haven't been stating that it works.
What's your take on why a time out gets called at that moment? Why do you think it's done?

Teams started attempting to ice the kicker in 2007. I'm not saying it works. I've never stated that it does. I spoke of why the time out at that moment is called. So what's your take? Why is a timeout called at that point in the game?

Last edited by IM WHO YOU THINK; 1 week ago at 05:51 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill5 View Post
Surprised Suh didn't make the list.

Is there a good "went way beyond expectations" list out there? I can see guys like Lindsey and Ebron on the list.
I think Suh was 16 million and is pure trash in the football sense and in the person sense. Good player comeback I have to say Luck honestly, he is looking stellar this season. Of course it helps Ebron and Mack do great things as well.
Old 1 week ago
  #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire View Post
I'm sure there's stats on this. After watching 50+ years of football, I don't have a clue whether it works or not.
It has only been done since about 2007, (I think),so in most of your 50+ years, it wasn't done. Of course people have called time outs before kicks for ages, but as far as I know Mike Shanahan was the first to call a time out from the sidelines just as a ball was snapped in an attempt to throw off a kicker's nerves/rythm.

Last edited by IM WHO YOU THINK; 1 week ago at 05:50 PM..
Old 1 week ago
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deuc647 View Post
I think Suh was 16 million and is pure trash in the football sense and in the person sense. Good player comeback I have to say Luck honestly, he is looking stellar this season. Of course it helps Ebron and Mack do great things as well.
It's no secret that Suh has always been a POS, but he at least used to be very talented...and may still be but his attitude gets in the way. I would not trade for/sign him for any price higher than a (stale) bag of chips, and I mean that literally. Lotulelei was also a major bust D signing for the Bills. Doctson (Redskins WR) has also been a major disappointment.

Ebron definitely makes the exceeded-expectations list, Luck not so sure as I think most expected great things IF he stayed healthy. Along with Lindsey I'd add Breida, Boyd and Kittle, who even exceeded pretty optimistic expectations by far.
Old 1 week ago
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
It has only been done since about 2007, (I think),so in most of your 50+ years, it wasn't done. Of course people have called time outs before kicks for ages, but as far as I know Mike Shanahan was the first to call a time out from the sidelines just as a ball was snapped in an attempt to throw off a kicker's nerves/rythm.
I posted this link awhile ago, it bears reading on the subject.

Mixpanel’s game theory: Does icing the kicker work? - Mixpanel
Quote:
To sum it all up…
First off, let’s look at the results that we expected: In non-critical situations, where the game isn’t on the line, kickers are successful 82% of the time and do worse when they’re iced (82% overall success rate for kicks vs. 77% success rate for iced kicks).

In game-critical situations, kickers have a 76% success rate; meaning, the increased pressure makes them worse overall. But, as Grantland concluded five years ago, icing actually seems to have no effect on a kicker’s success rate, overall.

But, if the distance of the field goal is 34 yards or greater, icing at any point in the game – including critical game-on-the-line situations – does, in fact, make it less likely the kicker will succeed. Not surprisingly, the greater the distance, the higher the odds of a kicker missing:

success-by-distance

Therefore, depending on the situation, there are a few conclusions a head coach should make based on this data:

If there is enough time to make a reasonable attempt at a drive, the decision comes down to some slightly more complicated math. With the results above, we can determine how likely an ice is to cause the kicker to miss their attempt. The probability of scoring on the ensuing drive is highly team-dependent. But if the chance to save the field goal is larger than the chance to score, a head coach should ice away.
If there’s not enough time to make a reasonable attempt at a drive following the kick-potentially-to-be-iced, and at least one timeout remains, the decision comes down to the distance of the kick entirely. Any more than 34 yards and the ice is, statistically speaking, likely to reduce the opposing kicker’s chance of making that field goal.
The Vikings faced the latter situation against the Lions in Week 9. Up three, a Lions field goal sends the game to overtime. There would be no time for a last minute Vikings drive – only five seconds remained on the clock. The Vikings had one timeout left as Matt Prater readied for a 58-yard attempt.

“Brandon Skerda, head coach of the Minnesota Vikings, ices the bejeezus out of Matt Prater in that situation,” says Brandon. “A 58-yard field goal has a 24.5% chance of succeeding if not iced and 10.0% chance if it is. The Vikings would have been 59.5% more likely to win the game, avoiding overtime altogether, if Mike Zimmer had iced the kick.”

If football is a game of inches, that 59.5% increase in the chance of winning sounds like a mile.
Old 1 week ago
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
It has only been done since about 2007, (I think),so in most of your 50+ years, it wasn't done. Of course people have called time outs before kicks for ages, but as far as I know Mike Shanahan was the first to call a time out from the sidelines just as a ball was snapped in an attempt to throw off a kicker's nerves/rythm.
Not sure I'm buying your definition of icing as 'just' before the snap. How long before?

Edit: 12tone's link goes back to 2001 (21st century is all they state), and I'm sure it was happening long before that. Maybe a little earlier than 'just' because the refs weren't complicit yet.
Old 1 week ago
  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire View Post
Not sure I'm buying your definition of icing as 'just' before the snap. How long before?

Edit: 12tone's link goes back to 2001 (21st century is all they state), and I'm sure it was happening long before that. Maybe a little earlier than 'just' because the refs weren't complicit yet.
For ages it was called icing the kicker when you called a time out before a kick. But the way that it's currently done began in 2007. Timeouts didn't always come from the sideline. Shanahan was first to do it as it's currently done.
Old 1 week ago
  #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
For ages it was called icing the kicker when you called a time out before a kick. But the way that it's currently done began in 2007. Timeouts didn't always come from the sideline. Shanahan was first to do it as it's currently done.
OK. Never made the distinction. What I meant by 'complicit' was the coach can now inform the ref of his intention before hand. In the 'good old days' the coach had to do it in enough time to make sure it was seen by the refs. No consultation beforehand...as far as I know.
Old 1 week ago
  #202
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Any delay is good for the networks. More advertising time.
Old 1 week ago
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onewire View Post
OK. Never made the distinction. What I meant by 'complicit' was the coach can now inform the ref of his intention before hand. In the 'good old days' the coach had to do it in enough time to make sure it was seen by the refs. No consultation beforehand...as far as I know.
Old 1 week ago
  #204
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"In the grasp" of his own guy? Really?
Old 2 days ago
  #205
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IM WHO YOU THINK's Avatar
 

Who paid the refs? They made this a game.
Old 2 days ago
  #206
Go Patriots!

Down with the Chiefs!
Old 2 days ago
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IM WHO YOU THINK View Post
Who paid the refs? They made this a game.
Congrats Rams. Ignoring the obvious pass interference non calls, the Saints had plenty of possessions they should have scored on.
Old 2 days ago
  #208
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Boy that icing the kicker sure works well

j/k - shame the ref BS came into play, but as you said, Saints still could've put that one away. That last pick was a terrible decision by Brees, should've ate it.
Old 2 days ago
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill5 View Post
Boy that icing the kicker sure works well

j/k - shame the ref BS came into play, but as you said, Saints still could've put that one away. That last pick was a terrible decision by Brees, should've ate it.
The ref no call changed the outcome and prolonged the game. Call the play, the Saints run out the clock and kick a chip shot to close regulation. My post earlier was about a different PI no call, but the last one extended the game. It was pass interference and a helmet to helmet hit, well before the ball arrived.

They should review plays that decide the game at the end. We have the replay technology.
Old 2 days ago
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill5 View Post
Boy that icing the kicker sure works well

j/k - shame the ref BS came into play, but as you said, Saints still could've put that one away. That last pick was a terrible decision by Brees, should've ate it.
It clearly doesn't work when the refs have decided to extend the game.

NFL will publicly admit error on key non-call in Rams-Saints

They're calling it a "bad outcome."
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