The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Schoeps VSR U5 or Merging Hapi
Old 4th April 2015
  #1
Gear Nut
Schoeps VSR U5 or Merging Hapi

Good Morning,

I need your advise.

I want to optimize my Stereo Recording Chain for Classic and Jazz.

Currently I own a pair of Schoeps CMC6 with MK21, Neve Portico 5012 and a Mytek 8*192.

Since the Neve is a little to colored I want to replace him with a ultra clean high end stereo mic pre amp.


Option1:
Replacing the Mytek 8x192 with Merging HAPI (AD8DP, DA8P Cards)
5.000 Euro - 1800 Euro = 3.200 Euro

Option2:
Keeping the Mytek and buy the Schoeps VSR U5
= 3.500 Euro


Which way would you go?

Last edited by Friedwald; 12th April 2015 at 03:47 PM.. Reason: typo
Old 4th April 2015
  #2
Lives for gear
 
Adebar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundgroove View Post
I want to optimize my Stereo Recording Chain for Classic and Jazz.
I would keep the Mytek and get the Gordon Model 5.
Old 4th April 2015
  #3
I've never used the Hapi - but I've got a VSR5 here and it's my go-to mic pre for just about everything other than when I want a deliberate "sound". It just allows every source and mic to shine.
Old 4th April 2015
  #4
Lives for gear
 
Earcatcher's Avatar
To keep the Mytek and buy another preamp would be my suggestion as well. Have a look at Lake People F355 (possibly with class A option). It will save you some and give you a very clean high end preamp. Lake People built the Schoeps VSR5, which is now discontinued by the way. The suggested Gordon 5 is very good too, but rather expensive for the sound it offers. Especially at the current dollar to euro rate. But maybe Adebar can give you a good deal. He imports them to Germany.

For classical stuff I also like New Old Sound MOne in clean mode a lot, and ADT Audio TM101 (another German contender of the highest quality, which is very clean and natural, despite its design with an input transformer).
Old 4th April 2015
  #5
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
Schoeps VSR5, which is now discontinued


Does anybody here know why?

@ ALL : Thanks a lot for your help!! :-)
Old 4th April 2015
  #6
Lives for gear
 

If you want the ultimate in clean preamplification, Gordon is obviously one well-known way to go. My choice is Pueblo Audio- unreal clarity, transient response and depth of sound. I'm using it here for high-end classical recording. Yet, with all of that, it also maintains a very musical presentation. Pueblo Audio - Home

--Ben
Old 4th April 2015
  #7
Gear Nut
I saw an old thread comparing the Forssell SMP-2 with the Gordon.

Since I have some slots free in my 500er Rack. It might also be worth to consider buying a pair of

Forssell Technologies SMP 500 Mic Preamp (1.600 Euro a pair) ???
Old 4th April 2015
  #8
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
You have excellent conversion with Mytek. Keep that. I also love your RN 5012, which without red or blue silk I consider a clean and beautiful sound.

Add not the Schoeps but instead a Gordon Model 5 or a Pueblo set up. Also consider John Hardy M-1 with transformer on in and out option.

You will be very happy with the best. Perfect for classical capture. How do I know? That is what I use.
Old 4th April 2015
  #9
Lives for gear
 
Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundgroove View Post
I saw an old thread comparing the Forssell SMP-2 with the Gordon.

Since I have some slots free in my 500er Rack. It might also be worth to consider buying a pair of

Forssell Technologies SMP 500 Mic Preamp (1.600 Euro a pair) ???
Forssell SMP-500 units do not quite sound as good as SMP-2. Having said that, in direct comparison between Forssell SMP-2 and Gordon 5, I found the Gordon more neutral and transparent in every aspect.

The Forssell has a particularly sweet high end (nice) and a somewhat blurry mid-low (not so nice). On individual instruments this may be no objection, but it makes the Forssell slightly less universal in orchestral main pair use. By the way: keep in mind that the Gordon is extremely good at hearing the room (because of its microscopic rendering of soft details), which may be a good thing, but can be a very problematic thing as well. Also, I find the Gordon a bit "bleak" tonally. You may want to read my comments in this thread about the Gordon if you want expansion of my findings: Holy grail preamp: most versatile?

For jazz I would most definitely try the ADT-Audio TM101 and/or NOS MOne, if I were you. Both very "musical" units with a neutral/natural tone, but without the utter clinical transparency that can distract from listening to the music. If there is more detail than your (trained) ears normally hear this can be very fatiguing. In classical some people still like that (mostly because it is great to show off the qualities of an expensive HiFi setup), but in jazz I find it killing for a good listening experience.
Old 5th April 2015
  #10
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earcatcher View Post
without the utter clinical transparency that can distract from listening to the music. If there is more detail than your (trained) ears normally hear this can be very fatiguing. In classical some people still like that (mostly because it is great to show off the qualities of an expensive HiFi setup), but in jazz I find it killing for a good listening experience.
Very useful hint! Thank you!
Old 5th April 2015
  #11
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundgroove View Post


Does anybody here know why?
My guess would be a niche market, it's the only preamp made by a mic company.

Being the production model of a test rig effectively, it's assured quality..but most people think of Schoeps as a mic company. I'd imagine it was only ever made in small quantities, and as such had a high price tag.

I only bought one because our studio had one in place belonging to the previous engineer. When he moved on, he offered to sell it to the studio - but the price he wanted was $500 cheaper than a brand new one with warranty etc, so that's what we did.

Otherwise, I don't think I'd have thought to look at Schoeps for preamps, and I'm guessing many others didn't either?

All speculation; at the end of the day, I guess they just wanted to focus on mics and the preamp didn't make enough of a margin to make the hassle worthwhile.
Old 5th April 2015
  #12
Out of interest, apart from Earcatcher has anyone actually used the Schoeps? I'd never seen one before our studio..just wondering how common they are/were.
Old 5th April 2015
  #13
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
I also bought the Schoeps mic amp. 1st in the USA. Great mic amp, great build quality for Schoeps by Lake People DE.
Old 6th April 2015
  #14
Gear Nut
Thanks a lot for all your comments.

I now put Pueblo Audio and Gordon 5 on my shortlist.

I like the separation of Pre and Gain Control of the Gordon. That allows me to put it very near the microphones with short quality cables.

Adebar: Thanks for your support! I really appreciate if a dealer answers E-Mail question as detailed as you did even I've never bought anything from you yet.
Old 6th April 2015
  #15
Lives for gear
 

I'm not going to say that cable length doesn't matter- because it does. That being said, a well-designed pre can drive much longer cable lengths than a poorly designed pre. I've run 150 feet of cable between the mic and pre with my Pueblos with no obvious issues. Granted I use good cable that is well shielded, etc... but the pre can take it. I can't say the same about other pres in my collection, regardless of how good I think they may sound.

--Ben
Old 6th April 2015
  #16
Gear Nut
Thanks Ben! It's good to get these Infos from pro's!!!
Old 6th April 2015
  #17
Lives for gear
 
Adebar's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fifthcircle View Post
I've run 150 feet of cable between the mic and pre with my Pueblos with no obvious issues.
In this case the mic output has to drive the cable length to the input of the pre.
Old 6th April 2015
  #18
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adebar View Post
In this case the mic output has to drive the cable length to the input of the pre.
True. Absolutely. What I didn't say here (forgot to write it- sorry) is that I've done that with ribbons in the field. Usually a Beyer 160 on a stage as it's one of the smaller ribbons out there (in size) but a passive ribbon just the same. Many pres will get extraordinary noisy when driving a low-output mic. Some will load down affecting the transient response and general sound. In my experiences, the Pueblo doesn't usually suffer from either of these problems.

In all fairness, I would expect Gordon and some of those other high-end pres to have similar performance. My experience, however is with Pueblo where I own 8 channels of pres with 8 channels of phantom.

--Ben
Old 6th April 2015
  #19
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by fifthcircle View Post
I own 8 channels of pres with 8 channels of phantom.

--Ben
@ Ben : Means you need two power supply units. Or?

2 x PS34
2 X JR 4
2 x P4
Old 6th April 2015
  #20
Lives for gear
 

Nope- one power supply can power 4 rack units (ie 16 pres, 8+8, 16 phantom or any combination)

--Ben
Old 7th April 2015
  #21
Lives for gear
 

ADT Audio Toolmod TM101 and TM102, Integrator I46 and I47 are excellent candidates. Clean and detailed with lots of headroom but not sterile and with a build quality that is beyond reproach.

The fact that they are local, have excellent service and are always willing to help can be very useful if/when you need service.
Old 7th April 2015
  #22
Gear Nut
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samc View Post
The fact that they are local, have excellent service and are always willing to help can be very useful if/when you need service.
Good advise! Although I heard that the service from (or of?) Pueblo Audio & Gordon should be great. Shipping from US to Europe always takes time (and money)
Old 7th April 2015
  #23
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundgroove View Post
…..Although I heard that the service from (or of?) Pueblo Audio & Gordon should be great.…..
I'm sure they're great people too.
Old 8th April 2015
  #24
Lives for gear
 
Bruce Watson's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by soundgroove View Post
I want to optimize my Stereo Recording Chain for Classic and Jazz.

Currently I own a pair of Schoeps CMC6 with MK21, Neve Portico 5012 and a Mytek 8*192.
You want mic pres for use with Schoeps, and converted with a Mytek? All this talk of Gordons and Pueblos may be skipping over an obvious choice. You might want to take a look at the D.A.V. Broadhurst Gardens preamps. Made by a former Decca engineer. Really fine sound (you can search around on GearSlutz and see the comparisons between these three manufacturers) for considerably less money.

For what it's worth, I'm using a BG No. 8 between my Schoeps mics and my Mytek 8*192.
Old 8th April 2015
  #25
Lives for gear
 

I own DAV as well. It is a darned fine mic pre- I use it regularly. That being said, it feels slow and decidedly warmer than the Pueblo. It doesn't have the clarity or the depth of sound of the Pueblo. It also has a much higher noise floor- especially at higher gain settings.

Sometimes, that's a good thing- I do have times that I don't want to hear everything. For example, I'll use the Pueblo for any area micing or places that I need that clarity and transient response. I'll use the DAV (and some of my other colored pres) when I need to spot sources or any other situation where I'm looking to hide part of the sound (say a really bright room). But for any situation where you want transparent, there is no comparison.

--Ben
Old 8th April 2015
  #26
Lives for gear
 
Earcatcher's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Watson View Post
You want mic pres for use with Schoeps, and converted with a Mytek? All this talk of Gordons and Pueblos may be skipping over an obvious choice. You might want to take a look at the D.A.V. Broadhurst Gardens preamps. Made by a former Decca engineer. Really fine sound (you can search around on GearSlutz and see the comparisons between these three manufacturers) for considerably less money.

For what it's worth, I'm using a BG No. 8 between my Schoeps mics and my Mytek 8*192.
DAV is clearly not as transparent as Gordon, Lake People, ADT, New Old Sound, Forssell or True. I find DAV great for spots use, because the pre-mixed, sirupy sound blends well with more distant main mics on a transparent, detailed preamp.
Old 8th April 2015
  #27
Gear Nut
Thank you very much for all your replies. I'm really learning a lot!
So much gear!!! ;-)

I am in contact with Scott (Pueblo) and Adebar (Distr. Gordon Europe). Both are very helpful.

Last edited by Friedwald; 11th April 2015 at 07:57 PM.. Reason: grammar
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump