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Why ADAM passive better than ADAM active studio monitor in term of sound quality?
Old 14th December 2006
  #1
Gear Nut
 

Why ADAM passive better than ADAM active studio monitor in term of sound quality?

Why ADAM passive better than ADAM active studio monitor in term of sound quality?

When I tested both active and passive of ADAM S4C,S5,MP1, using MC 2 audio 1250power amp, emmlabs and prism sound DAC, prism sound,crane song and drawmer pre amp


passive : produce more accurate,transparent,live and open sound,high damping

New class D ICE power Active:supposed class D had high damping factor ,outperform than traditional class A/AB .

From my tested the sound of ICE power active worse than passive studio monitor plus MC 2 audio 1250 power amp.

Even MP1,the internal amp is not good enough while compare with external high end studio power amp?

theoretically, Active better than passive because active have shorten path and electronic crossover which is different from passive studio monitor-passive crossover

But Why this happen ,passive better active?
Old 15th December 2006
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buffert View Post
Why ADAM passive better than ADAM active studio monitor in term of sound quality?

When I tested both active and passive of ADAM S4C,S5,MP1, using MC 2 audio 1250power amp, emmlabs and prism sound DAC, prism sound,crane song and drawmer pre amp


passive : produce more accurate,transparent,live and open sound,high damping

New class D ICE power Active:supposed class D had high damping factor ,outperform than traditional class A/AB .

From my tested the sound of ICE power active worse than passive studio monitor plus MC 2 audio 1250 power amp.

Even MP1,the internal amp is not good enough while compare with external high end studio power amp?

theoretically, Active better than passive because active have shorten path and electronic crossover which is different from passive studio monitor-passive crossover

But Why this happen ,passive better active?
A big Problem is to get an amp that fits to the particular Speaker. So when you got a good result with your combination, it maybe won´t produce that same result with another amp. An active Speaker gives the devoloper the chance to put amp and chassis well together.
Old 15th December 2006
  #3
Gear Nut
 

I found that dynaudio acoustics passive version of BM 15 and M3 also better the active version.

When I using MC audio 1250 to drive ADAM and dynaudio acoustics ,the performance IS BETTER THAN active version.

Is it all active studio monitor are worse than passive studio monitor?
Old 15th December 2006
  #4
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Sounds to me like you just have a killer amp.
Old 15th December 2006
  #5
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It may sound "better" but will it do the job?
You want a studio monitor to be "neutral" dont you? Every killer hifi combination sounds "better"

The result of using the "better " combination might be that the product will only sound great in your studio...and nowhere else....
Old 15th December 2006
  #6
Seems all the active montors I've heard suffer from this problem. First, look at a great power amp. Next, look at that speaker cabinet.

Do any of you think that great amp will fit behind that speaker?

Answer: No.

Active monitors are about convenience, not quality.

Yes, I've rebuilt plenty of them. No, I couldn't use any of them.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 15th December 2006
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Williams View Post

Do any of you think that great amp will fit behind that speaker?

Answer: No.
Answer: Yes (although extremely rare)

Bryston makes some (power pacs) but they weigh a ton.

Barefoot's amps are very, very good. KRK e8 had acceptable amps and the dynaudio air series have useable power. Some of the older Genelec had ok power like the 1037 (103x series), s30 and the sub amps were enormous. Meyer hd-1 have OK amps too.

Still, you take most of these amps and compare it to almost any decent outboard amp and they are inferior. Now, were talking about some of the most expensive active monitors and you could put a bryston, krell, mcintosh, pass labs, classe and even certain adcom amps on a passive version of the same speaker and they would be better in every way; at every volume.

Adam amps are OK but they can't beat something delivering higher, more stable current. That's what opens up the speaker sonically - it makes perfect sense.
Old 15th December 2006
  #8
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On this subject, is it possible to disconnect the wires going to the A7's woofer and tweeter, and replacing the internal amp with an external amp such as a Adcom GFA 585 LE?
Old 16th December 2006
  #9
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Or will ADAM show up at namm with an A7 passive??
Old 16th December 2006
  #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imagine View Post
On this subject, is it possible to disconnect the wires going to the A7's woofer and tweeter, and replacing the internal amp with an external amp such as a Adcom GFA 585 LE?
Sure, if you get a crossover for it. The one that comes with the passive model (if they make one) would be a good place to start. If not, you need to determine the sensitivity of the tweeter, make a passive attenuator for it and get a good crossover pcb that will cross over at the driver maker's recommended frequency.
You also might use the old amp's active crossover/processor and cut the feed to the power amp and feed it to the outboard amp.

Or, go get the passive model.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades
Old 16th December 2006
  #11
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danasti's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by edham View Post
Or will ADAM show up at namm with an A7 passive??
They have the ANF-10 which is essentially the size and same price range. I actually demo'd the ANF with a bryston 3b next to the A7 and the ANF were so very much better in every way. At least to my ears.

I was very close to buying the ANF from Dean Landon when I bought his Adcom GFA-545.

BTW Dean, great amp.
Old 16th December 2006
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danasti View Post
They have the ANF-10 which is essentially the size and same price range. I actually demo'd the ANF with a bryston 3b next to the A7 and the ANF were so very much better in every way. At least to my ears.

I was very close to buying the ANF from Dean Landon when I bought his Adcom GFA-545.

BTW Dean, great amp.
Just curious, where do you go to audition this stuff? I'm in NY too.

I've had a pair of ADAM S2.5As for a year now, and I'm still feeling like something is quite not there. Maybe it's just the relentlessness of the truth, but I've been having the same question in my mind about tweaking out my speakers to switch between active and passive.
Old 17th August 2007
  #13
Gear Nut
 

why the adam eng. said active studio monitor (icepower built in) better than adam passive studio monitor driven by mc2 mc 1250 power amp?
Old 17th August 2007
  #14
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I would like to see a real Class A poweramplifier stuck to a pair of Adams. My guess would be it falls over on its side.

The " Real" 100 watts of power I have in a power amplifier is closer to 70lbs. No powered job will sound as good.

The other problem you will always have is isolation. Vibrations can and often do effect performance.
Old 17th August 2007
  #15
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To paraphrase the Beatles...Day Tripper..."Takin the easy way out"


I feel too many manufacturers are ..."Takin the easy way out" with these ICE amplifier modules. Thay make it convenient but theyre not great sounding.

B & O ...back to the drawing board

BTW...Bryston does make amplifier modules that can be screwed to the back of passive speakers

Last edited by MIKEHARRIS; 17th August 2007 at 03:41 PM.. Reason: Hmmm
Old 17th August 2007
  #16
.

favorite monitors EVER - (passive) DynAudio M1s....

Dynaudio M1 Passive Console Top Monitor

...
Old 18th August 2007
  #17
Gear Maniac
 

Or just put the amp on top of the monitor ......

heh



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Old 18th August 2007
  #18
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i'm very happy with the anf10's driven by a decent amp.
Old 18th August 2007
  #19
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Active adams have inside "opamps" (Gainclone) with Lm 3886 - High-Performance 68W Audio Power Amplifier. Price of one opamp 3 - 10$ so... I prefer REAL AMPS, heavy amps
Old 19th August 2007
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by threm View Post
Or just put the amp on top of the monitor ......

heh



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Almost looks like my idea. Problem: Tubes are microphonic so sticking them on a speaker may not be the best solution. My power amps both solid state or tube greatly improved when I took them off the floor and put them on decent stands.
Old 19th August 2007
  #21
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I'm using my Tannoys active with two MC2 amps via BSS 360. There is no way in hell I'd ever go back to passive. The extra resolution that comes from removing the series inductor from the woofer is worth every penny (cent)!
The best thing I can say about Icepower amps is that they are cheap.
Old 19th August 2007
  #22
PDC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubedude View Post
Sounds to me like you just have a killer amp.
This is a big opinionated statement, but I don't care what engineers and designers say. I hear a difference between some amplifier types. You can't tell me that a Carver or some newer switching amp sounds as good as a Macintosh, etc.

Many of these switching amp technologies were said to be not usable for music applications five to ten years ago. Now everyone of the majors has adopted them. I can see some of the justification on the touring end of things, where small truck pack, low weight and power efficiency are paramount. But to take that same crap and slap it on the back of a studio monitor? Come on.

Many of the high speed switching amps do a poor job of reproducing bass. They can't reload fast enough.
Old 19th August 2007
  #23
PDC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 807Recordings View Post
Almost looks like my idea. Problem: Tubes are microphonic so sticking them on a speaker may not be the best solution. My power amps both solid state or tube greatly improved when I took them off the floor and put them on decent stands.
Not only that, in the old days before active speakers, we knew that distortion was introduced into the speaker systems by having the amplifiers too close.
Old 19th August 2007
  #24
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Funny how people say 'oh you'll need a really good amp if you go passive' and then you look at the prices of the amps they recommend and it pushes your budget through the roof compared to the active version - are the samsons and alesis amps of this world really so dreadful compared to the amps fitted to active monitors?
Old 26th August 2007
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loaf View Post
Funny how people say 'oh you'll need a really good amp if you go passive' and then you look at the prices of the amps they recommend and it pushes your budget through the roof compared to the active version - are the samsons and alesis amps of this world really so dreadful compared to the amps fitted to active monitors?
Yes they are, but there are far better amps than alesis and samson for the kind of price difference from active to passive models!
Old 26th August 2007
  #26
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I'm surprised you think that the amps fitted to active speakers are of such high quality.
Old 26th August 2007
  #27
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FWIW, I have both Adam S2A and S2 here, and with a range of amps, the actives always sounded better .. on the other hand, haven't tried the passives with a Bryston or equivalent, but did use a Quad, my pretty decent Arcam stereo amp, and my decent Marantz stereo amp and the powered version was clearly better.

my .2c.

B
Old 26th August 2007
  #28
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This doesn't surprise me. A while ago I opened a Genelec nearfield and I was shocked from the amp inside. There where a couple of STK transistorpackages inside that where used bij Akai 20 years ago in their home budget stuff.
It was a 1030a btw.

Best to all.
Rutger
Old 26th August 2007
  #29
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I wish I were better educated, and better able to discuss this...but I'm not. However, ADAM designer Klaus Heinz swears up and down that active designs are not only more efficient, but are actually better sounding - so much so that he even makes active versions of the ADAM HiFi line available. Interestingly, I'm getting ready to translate a whole paper he wrote on why that is, which will hopefully give me a better understanding of this subject - I'll be more than glad to post some of it here when I'm done.

What I do know is that there are a whole bunch of people whose ears and opinions I respect that seem to think that working on active monitors (not just ADAMs) is the way to go. I have a difficult time believing that so many top engineers and facilities - all of whom can certainly pick and choose what they want to work on - are using active monitors for any other reason than that they believe these are the best tools for the job.

That being said, everyone has different ears and different tastes...and if passive designs work better for you than active designs, I don't think that's any more wrong than the people who prefer their active monitors.

dB
ADAM Audio USA
Old 26th August 2007
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryce View Post
ADAM designer Klaus Heinz swears up and down that active designs are not only more efficient, but are actually better sounding
he is right, in theory.

but, the problem that is being discussed and which does unfortunately exist is that a lot of active monitors are supplied with cheap / crap amps.

if they were to be supplied with high quality amps, say Bryston PowerPacs, they would indeed fulfil the potential of the active speaker approach.

but, this would of course be very expensive.

most people with good / great speakers power them with amps that do not do their speakers justice because they are not willing to pony up for really high quality amplification.

which is just daft in my opinion. but there you have it.
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