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New Ultra High End Gear
Old 19th February 2015
  #1
Here for the gear
 

New Ultra High End Gear

Hey GS! I recently came into some money and i can get A lot of high end gear so I'm switching out my entire set up and building a new room and was hoping you guys could help point me in some right directions.

I produce EDM,pop,hip hop and reggae. I only need 2 ins one for vocals and one for a electric guitar DI. My current setup is a apogee duet2,manley ref c and a bae1073 with Yamaha Hs80ms which i absolutely hate! thank god its going now!

Im currently looking at the antelope eclipse with the 10m but would also like to get into summing so I was thinking about at least 16 channels of high end D/A to feed into a summing mixer.

Which summing mixer should i look into for the Genres that i do and is a summing mixer even really necessary for the stuff i work on. Is antelope eclipse a good choice? what 16 d/a converters should would you guys recommend.

Worth noting, i'm not in the US and there are no high end audio gear dealers in my country so i can't demo these things in my new room to see what i like best.

On to monitors. I DO plan on visiting the US to listen in some demo rooms. Barefoot seems to be a big thing here and i have heard them but I don't think i like them very much to be honest. Maybe ATC? or PMC? I dont think it makes much sense discussing monitors any further since its such a subjective matter.
However i would like some recommendations on what to check out.
I would like some big full range far field mastering type monitors such as ATC 150's or 200 or augspurgers and a good pair of near fields (i have no idea what to look at here)

Other than that I already ordered a new mac pro ,UAD2 thunderbolt octo ultimate since i don't want racks upon racks of gear to worry about or maintain, Sony c800g and and a manley voxbox.

And yes i do make a living off of this, not nearly as much as im spending on this new gear i admit but its what i would rather spend this money on!

Am i missing anything?

Can't wait for replies heh
Old 19th February 2015
  #2
Gear Maniac
 
Tommyswami's Avatar
I would check out the a designs gear I have the Pacifica mic pre,the nail compressor and the hammer eq. Wow what a transformation of sound . I like the inwards connections summing box it gives a great solid sound in all frequencies very 3d

Hope it helps .
Old 19th February 2015
  #3
Gear Guru
 
RoundBadge's Avatar
If you can get to Vintage King in LA they have all the speakers and gear to demo.
Old 19th February 2015
  #4
Lives for gear
 
jindrich's Avatar
 

I'll look into:

-Professional Acoustics for the room
-Small high-end monitors for mixing and big ass monitors for the show/clients (and tracking)
-Pair of 1084s and some good tracking compressor
-U47ish mic+U87+AEAR84+SM7/RE20/TG88/sm58 will cover any singer
-Symphony or similar converter with a high-end summer, so you don't have to care about levels and headroom.
-Control surface (Nucleus, S3..) make a difference
-High end monitor controller
-Mac+DAW+UAudio Octo+plugs
-Nespresso machine and good leather coach

and a €100 check for me for the advice
Old 20th February 2015
  #5
Gear Maniac
 

Or base your studio rebuild around API's The Box.
If the budget allows...
Old 20th February 2015
  #6
Lives for gear
Man, who has to die for me to "come into" some "help me blow all this money" money?!
Old 20th February 2015
  #7
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by halcyo View Post
Man, who has to die for me to "come into" some "help me blow all this money" money?!
Agreed! However, a lot of these threads begin like this and the actual post should have been titled more like: "Building the ultra-sooper-dooper most expensive high end studio with the $12k I just inherited."

Once they slam back into earth the reality of what high end means becomes clearer.

Assuming this post is NOT like that, my advice is always the same:

Figure out the end goal and make a plan.

Buy ONE, maybe THREE, items at the most. Learn each one and all of its individual quirks, positives and negatives.

Then, and only then, move on to the next piece(s).

In this manner, you will ultimately end up with a better room, and have spent your money wiser. As you progress, you will see what is missing, and be able to fix it while you still have the money to do so. If you order a room full of new gear, you are likely to spend years looking at it all and wondering why nothing sounds as good as you thought it would. It'll sure look pretty, but what good will it be.

Seasoned pros do better, as they have the experience. But they wouldn't likely make a post like this. And even they are susceptible to big mistakes. We're always learning, just trying to be smarter about it and make fewer disastrous errors.
Old 20th February 2015
  #8
Here for the gear
 

Hey guys thanks for the replies thus far!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rami Hashash View Post
Or base your studio rebuild around API's The Box.
If the budget allows...
Budget does allow for this, even an ssl matrix but I would not actually use it as i don't want/need tons of outboard gear. And i literally do everything ITB so the only analog workflow i'm looking at is the summing mixer.
Old 20th February 2015
  #9
Lives for gear
 
_Mark's Avatar
What about the Chandler Mini Rack Mixer?
Old 20th February 2015
  #10
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jindrich View Post
I'll look into:

-Professional Acoustics for the room
-Small high-end monitors for mixing and big ass monitors for the show/clients (and tracking)
-Pair of 1084s and some good tracking compressor
-U47ish mic+U87+AEAR84+SM7/RE20/TG88/sm58 will cover any singer
-Symphony or similar converter with a high-end summer, so you don't have to care about levels and headroom.
-Control surface (Nucleus, S3..) make a difference
-High end monitor controller
-Mac+DAW+UAudio Octo+plugs
-Nespresso machine and good leather coach
YES! a custom room is being planned right now 33x47 feet control room

What small high end monitors to check out? I need names!

I have a manley ref c and just ordered the sony c800g, I don't like any nuemann microphones tbh. A u47ish tone mic could be useful though.

I was looking at the symphony for the D/A cards to go into a summing mixer to go into the A/D of the antelope eclipse. Still looking at summing mixers, the SSL sigma looks decent so does the neve but I like to be different and the Thermionic Culture fat bustard sure looks interesting. @ RoundBadge can i demo all these at vintage king?
Old 20th February 2015
  #11
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LFlood View Post
Agreed! However, a lot of these threads begin like this and the actual post should have been titled more like: "Building the ultra-sooper-dooper most expensive high end studio with the $12k I just inherited."

Once they slam back into earth the reality of what high end means becomes clearer.

Assuming this post is NOT like that, my advice is always the same:

Figure out the end goal and make a plan.

Buy ONE, maybe THREE, items at the most. Learn each one and all of its individual quirks, positives and negatives.

Then, and only then, move on to the next piece(s).

In this manner, you will ultimately end up with a better room, and have spent your money wiser. As you progress, you will see what is missing, and be able to fix it while you still have the money to do so. If you order a room full of new gear, you are likely to spend years looking at it all and wondering why nothing sounds as good as you thought it would. It'll sure look pretty, but what good will it be.

Seasoned pros do better, as they have the experience. But they wouldn't likely make a post like this. And even they are susceptible to big mistakes. We're always learning, just trying to be smarter about it and make fewer disastrous errors.
I totally get what you're saying and this is some solid advice to keep my head on my shoulders so i thank you for that .

But I'm not buying things that i have no idea about, I know how the sony sounds and i love it as well as the voxbox and always wanted those. The only totally new things im getting into are new monitors and the summing mixers. I currently have a duet so i think the eclipse would definitely be a couple steps up from that I would like to hear it before i purchase though. So basically im buying three items i have no idea about Monitors,summing mixers and new converters. I just want to splurge on those things a little.
Old 20th February 2015
  #12
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by _Mark View Post
What about the Chandler Mini Rack Mixer?
Hmm i dont know. do you have experience with the unit? seems like it would be really colored for edm/pop stuff.
Old 20th February 2015
  #13
I thought the Sigma's big selling point was the analog automation for DAW's?

Personally for EDM summing, I'd go with API or something punchy and big. A Folcrum through a pair of Lola's or VP-28's would kill it. That said, I would rather invest in a 2-bus chain, especially if you aren't incorporating other gear upon summing. I have a Nail and a couple Bax style eq's I use on mixbus for EDM and it kills. The amount of tweakablility on the Nail really let's you tailor the compression/pumping characteristics.
Old 20th February 2015
  #14
Lives for gear
 
jindrich's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnluke1 View Post
YES! a custom room is being planned right now 33x47 feet control room

What small high end monitors to check out? I need names!

I have a manley ref c and just ordered the sony c800g, I don't like any nuemann microphones tbh. A u47ish tone mic could be useful though.

I was looking at the symphony for the D/A cards to go into a summing mixer to go into the A/D of the antelope eclipse. Still looking at summing mixers, the SSL sigma looks decent so does the neve but I like to be different and the Thermionic Culture fat bustard sure looks interesting. @ RoundBadge can i demo all these at vintage king?
For the small monitors check the PSI range or Amphion's one18 with its own 100 amp. The ATC 25s are also great but more expensive. For the big monitors, it depends on how much you want to spend. Questeds are very good, but if you can afford it, try the ATC 150 and don't look back.

As for summers check SSL Sigma, Rupert 5059 and the Fat Bustard which is more colored, great for rock/indie but maybe too much for EDM.

Flea's 47 is about the closest to the vintages and quite reasonbly priced.

For the converters, once you reach to a certain point, it will be spliting hairs. Don't lose too much sleep.
Old 20th February 2015
  #15
Gear Head
 

Hi,
regarding your question about monitoring, I would recommend you to check out the following:
- PSI a25m
- PSI a215
- Neumann KH 420
- Quested v3110
- Geithain 901k
- maybe Trident HG3

For most (maybe all) of these there are also matching Subs available.

You can read a bit about them here in several threads, for example:

Meditating about my new main monitors: Quested V3110, PSI A25 or ?

And a really good but long one:
High end nearfield test

There are also some other options discussed in the second one and if you take a bit of time and read trough the whole thing you will have a very wide spectrum to choose from

Otherwise, if your into Tube gear check out the Tube EQ by Solid Tube Audio...gorgeous peace of Art...*dreaming* :D

Hope I could help you, have a nice day and good luck in building your studio

Finnstein
Old 20th February 2015
  #16
Lives for gear
 
_Mark's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnluke1 View Post
Hmm i dont know. do you have experience with the unit? seems like it would be really colored for edm/pop stuff.
I've not, but it's my dream summer!

Color can be your best friend. It'll help you get that thickness that you probably want. I like the color of my Chandler Little Devil Compressors.
Old 20th February 2015
  #17
Spend a ton on acoustic room treatment. Eg; build a proper control room. And install new Augsburgers mains with subs.... And some Amphion nearfields.

Without proper room and monitors how can you even tell the difference between your outboard gear...
Old 20th February 2015
  #18
Lives for gear
 
bigbaby987's Avatar
I have to cosign this post also. Find out what you're goals are, and honestly where you plan to go with your art. There are pieces that are 90 percent of the gear you've named that cost about half of what you named and will get you a 100 percent to the quality you're looking for. Just my opinion, but if this isn't your bread and butter, keep your money. It's so easy to get caught up. I personally won't buy gear that MY business won't buy.

First the Antelope Eclipse and 10M are way over the top if you're not making a living off your art. The Apogee Symphony 2/6 seems to be right up your alley and it's expandable.

Second, the Ref C is a pretty good all around mic and the BAE is a great start to pre's. I'd pick up one or two more and go from there. Are you miking your guitar at all? This presents a whole new animal. *I'm editing to see that you picked up the C800. That's a kick ass mic. I really can't argue with you on it, but most people will go to a studio with them or rent them. It's such a high end boutique piece.*

I won't comment about the summing box because I've been a proponent for them forever, but still haven't purchased one-if that tells you anything.

Lastly, look into the Amphion monitors (One18's). If they sound anything like everyone says here, that's going to be ticket for you and only about 3k out the door.

Now you've only spent about 5k minus the summing mixer and pre's. Again, if you're not making a living off this, put enough money in it to make the music you want and produce a solid product that you could present to anyone. Trust me, it's not that hard once you have a good product to start with.

Maybe a solid 500 rack filled with goodies would be a good idea.

Oh yeah... buy your monitors and converter/interface first and go from there. It will force you to tune your room and will really point you in the direction of the gear you need from there. I think you'll be presently surprised. It was a game changer for me. Monitors, interface, treat your room, then go from there!!!

Congratulations on your windfall, but spend your money wisely and keep some for yourself. Good music doesn't cost money to create it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by LFlood View Post
Agreed! However, a lot of these threads begin like this and the actual post should have been titled more like: "Building the ultra-sooper-dooper most expensive high end studio with the $12k I just inherited."

Once they slam back into earth the reality of what high end means becomes clearer.

Assuming this post is NOT like that, my advice is always the same:

Figure out the end goal and make a plan.

Buy ONE, maybe THREE, items at the most. Learn each one and all of its individual quirks, positives and negatives.

Then, and only then, move on to the next piece(s).

In this manner, you will ultimately end up with a better room, and have spent your money wiser. As you progress, you will see what is missing, and be able to fix it while you still have the money to do so. If you order a room full of new gear, you are likely to spend years looking at it all and wondering why nothing sounds as good as you thought it would. It'll sure look pretty, but what good will it be.

Seasoned pros do better, as they have the experience. But they wouldn't likely make a post like this. And even they are susceptible to big mistakes. We're always learning, just trying to be smarter about it and make fewer disastrous errors.

Last edited by bigbaby987; 20th February 2015 at 06:48 AM..
Old 20th February 2015
  #19
Lives for gear
 
KIDBILL's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindell View Post
Spend a ton on acoustic room treatment. Eg; build a proper control room. And install new Augsburgers mains with subs.... And some Amphion nearfields.

Without proper room and monitors how can you even tell the difference between your outboard gear...

Which Amphion do you recommend?
Thanks
Old 20th February 2015
  #20
I'm probably going to get lynched for saying some of this, but:

1. Summing mixers don't add to sound quality. At most they take away from it. Sum digitally if you want best sound quality. If you want to have a mixer, make sure it's for the right reasons, ie. workflow.

2. Audio interfaces are generally of much higher quality than many would like to think. Even the sub $500 ones have comparable audio quality to the +$3000 ones. There might be small differences in the noise floor, but it's usually really small, ie. inaudible. So super-high-end audio interface shouldn't be the highest thing on your priority list.

3. Room acoustics make the biggest difference. If you try to monitor in a steel drum, you won't hear what you're working on, thus you're making wrong choises during the production ---> bad results.

4. Buy as neutral sounding monitors as you can find. If the monitors color the sound in any way, it's like trying to adjust colors in Photoshop while having a red transparent plastic film infront of your monitor ---> it skews your perception of the material you're working on ---> bad results. If you want to go big, definitely check out the Genelec 1036A. Those are really good and neutral sounding monitors.

5. As important as the acoustics is the workflow of the studio. If you get this wrong, you'll end up refining/restructuring/reorganizing/buying/selling/cursing/etc. for the next 100 years instead of making music happily every day. Make absolutely sure everything is in the hands reach and rerouting stuff doesn't take more than a few seconds. Don't underestimate the power of laziness: if it's not done in an instant, it's way too easy not to do it at all ---> lazy production ---> bad results.
Old 20th February 2015
  #21
Here for the gear
 

Thanks for all the advice guys, this is really a solid community here

I think i've decided on the antelope and 10m combo. I'll put the summing on hold for now till I get the new converters and get a feel for it.

I don't think i'll be buying a control surface because I honestly don't see myself using it and i have used in the past and preferred using my mouse and keyboard. Its so much faster heh And i'm not about to buy something just cuz it'll look pretty

Before I order the Eclipse, When I am ready to get into summing how would I integrate that with the eclipse? If i were to get an SSL sigma I would obviously need more D/A IO. So what digital connections would need to be made between say the symphony and the eclipse to the sigma?

If it won't work out I'll look into other high end converters.

As for monitors thanks for the suggestions The amphion does look interesting and i'll love to listen to a pair. I'm working on getting my US visa right now so i can fly up and listen to all the more analog gear i've never heard before.
Old 20th February 2015
  #22
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbaby987 View Post
I have to cosign this post also. Find out what you're goals are, and honestly where you plan to go with your art. There are pieces that are 90 percent of the gear you've named that cost about half of what you named and will get you a 100 percent to the quality you're looking for. Just my opinion, but if this isn't your bread and butter, keep your money. It's so easy to get caught up. I personally won't buy gear that MY business won't buy.

First the Antelope Eclipse and 10M are way over the top if you're not making a living off your art. The Apogee Symphony 2/6 seems to be right up your alley and it's expandable.
.
Hey I'm actually pretty happy with the sound quality i'm achieving I just think some new high end gear would be really exciting and inspiring. The business would pay for all this gear (eventually)
Old 20th February 2015
  #23
Lives for gear
 

Doubled

Last edited by LFlood; 21st February 2015 at 12:12 AM.. Reason: double post
Old 20th February 2015
  #24
Lives for gear
 

You mentioned a Voxbox, a Manley product. I own a bunch of Manley gear, and they are awesome. Some of the best I have ever worked with.

Some of the pieces, though, can be very NON-intuitive. They simply do not work like other, seemingly similar, items. For instance, the way the EQ curves interact in a Massive Passive EQ takes some getting used to. The interaction, among other keys, is a big part of why they sound so sweet, but it really takes some time to get used to, if you're not already used to it. Additionally, many people might be tempted to get the Mastering version first, on the assumption that it is obviously better if it is intended for the mastering process.

As an example, it is completely possible to RAISE a frequency by so much that you end up damping the frequency you think you are making louder. This is explained, in technical terms, in the manual but you sort of have to hear it to believe it. And to understand WHY you might ever want to do it this way.

And the Mastering version IS great. FOR MASTERING. Because it has detented pots, you can recall mixes easier. However, this is not ideal when making music or vocal work. In those cases, the pots are better off when they roll freely BETWEEN the frequencies. This is where a LOT of the magic lies. Among other quirks, Manley mostly maintains some unusual signal paths compared to other manufacturers as well. For instance, the gear I use most frequently has no output gain stage. It is all handled by the input and processing chains, eq and compression. Most people are accustomed to having that 'final pot' for raising or lowering the end volume. This can cause all sorts of confusion and misunderstanding.

Because Manley uses configurations that are not terribly intuitive, and with good reason, I'd really suggest take their gear and work with it in a somewhat isolated fashion. Don't plug it into each other or into a big chain of other equipment until you understand very well how it works. If you just lob it into a long chain of other processing, you'll end up angry and confused. Work with it in isolation until you have the hang of it. This might seem frustrating and slow, but it'll be worth it. Promise!
Old 21st February 2015
  #25
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
If you can get to Vintage King in LA they have all the speakers and gear to demo.
This. Arrange an appointment, play around with the high end stuff their, have some nice days in LA, get some hookers and weed, play an mix some reggae...in no particular order.

And of course get some professional room treatment, if haven't so far.
Old 22nd February 2015
  #26
Lives for gear
 
Aaron Miller's Avatar
I agree with many of the above posters about having a great room or rooms. I'd only add that besides sounding awesome, spend lot's of money on making it look awesome and be a relaxing, inspiring place. Make it the place you want to be in regardless of whether your are mixing or just hanging out!
Old 22nd February 2015
  #27
Gear Maniac
 
catfishmusic's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnluke1 View Post
Worth noting, i'm not in the US and there are no high end audio gear dealers in my country so i can't demo these things in my new room to see what i like best.
Makes Vintage King demoing a little tough
Old 28th April 2015
  #28
Gear Maniac
 

If you got the money, the first thing you should think about is building a studio room from the ground. IMO, the architecture is responsible for at least 95% of the sound quality.
Old 28th April 2015
  #29
Gear Head
+1 for the best acoustic treatment you can afford!

Then, if money wasn´t an issue, MY choice would be the Metric Halo 2882 2d, Avalon AD 2022, the Sony C800g, Dangerous Music Compressor and Dangerous Music BAXeq, Phoenix Nicerizer, Grace Design m905 and Unity Audio The Rock MK2 or Trident HG3 or Event Opals.

+some nice plug in bundles (McDSP, FabFilter, SoundToys, Eventide, Slate, Waves, Focusrite)

Just my 2ct
Old 28th April 2015
  #30
Lives for gear
Quote:
Originally Posted by kraku View Post
I'm probably going to get lynched for saying some of this, but:

1. Summing mixers don't add to sound quality. At most they take away from it. Sum digitally if you want best sound quality. If you want to have a mixer, make sure it's for the right reasons, ie. workflow.
Lynched! [deleted by mod] If you had a more scientific method of testing, i'd love to know what it was that gave you this absurd conclusion.

Last edited by [email protected]; 28th April 2015 at 09:51 PM.. Reason: This is not a playground
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