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The best and most transparent ADC for 2 track summing capture Digital Converters
Old 28th March 2015
  #121
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It's strange that the same forum that convinced me to record at 44.1kHz/16-bit now yells at me for saying it. Haha. 16-bits is totally enough. I was wrong. The best 44.1kHz/16-bit converters from the 90's are better than the so-so 192kHz/24-bit converters of today. The conversion process is relatively straightforward and the higher the sample rate is the more room there is to mess things up from what I understand. As for dynamic range, most mics can barely fill 16-bits.
Old 28th March 2015
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
This is really not true. Not bloody remotely lol.
Conveniently excluded the part of my post that made it true.
Old 28th March 2015
  #123
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burns46824's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by psykostx View Post
It's strange that the same forum that convinced me to record at 44.1kHz/16-bit now yells at me for saying it. Haha. 16-bits is totally enough. I was wrong. The best 44.1kHz/16-bit converters from the 90's are better than the so-so 192kHz/24-bit converters of today. The conversion process is relatively straightforward and the higher the sample rate is the more room there is to mess things up from what I understand. As for dynamic range, most mics can barely fill 16-bits.
I actually feel like this is true...LOL. Digital records from the mid 90s sound better than digital records from today in many cases. Some top recording engineers still prefer to track at 44.1 or 48 because it sounds "tighter" than higher sampling rates, too.

Part of it has to do with plug-ins, though. Digital records in the 90s were still being tracked and mixed through consoles and outboard. Plug-ins are death. Use them as sparingly as arsenic in your food.
Old 28th March 2015
  #124
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Analogue Mastering's Avatar
I prefer 44.1/24 or 48/24 over 2x or 4x speeds as well.
Old 28th March 2015
  #125
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12tone's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
Right. Either the 90s was the pinnacle of converter design, or the engineers making the records actually used real gear more, project budgets were higher, and it wasn't as much of a DIY affair as the market today.

Spoiler: no it wasn't the converters.
...uh, maybe there wasn't such pedantry and self righteousness about gear...that music was just being made, no matter what the gear was...

Spoiler: geeks like you don't make the music, musicians do - so continue this shameful charade of one-upmanship that matters nothing in the real world, regardless of stupid talk that amounts to lunatic fringe discussions about the oxygen freeness of cables; while the rest of the world cares to make better music...
Old 28th March 2015
  #126
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Agno's Avatar
 

Alright now. You kids fight nice. Keep it about the gear. Specifically transparent AD's for this thread.

Throw insults at each there via pm.

Actually...I wonder how many arguments go down via pm on here. I bet none.

"GS...we family."
Old 29th March 2015
  #127
nms
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nms's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12tone View Post
...uh, maybe there wasn't such pedantry and self righteousness about gear...that music was just being made, no matter what the gear was...
What are you on about? There have always been people making music with whatever was on hand and there have always been people making music in expensive studios with high end gear. Nowadays the recording budgets are generally less, people are committing less in favor of perfect recall for changes (hello plugins), and the market as a whole just generally has a lot less money going into the process of making records than it did 15-20 yrs ago. Everyone and their dog is making music now and the market is more flooded with crap than its ever been. So you can sit down.
Quote:
Spoiler: geeks like you don't make the music, musicians do
Watch your tongue kid. You have no clue who I am and what I do beyond some anonymous posts on GS (a forum about gear).

Back to topic..

For me personally, coming from Lavry, Mytek, and plenty of others.. Hilo is the most transparent thing I've heard or tested. In any blind testing I setup with mastering engineers the Hilo came out on top for transparency by a decent margin. Plenty of ME's love it, and like me came from Mytek or Lavry converters. That's more than good enough for me so I don't really care about much beyond that. There are so many other things which will make a bigger difference than searching for an upgrade beyond that point IMO.

If I was going to look at anything else to add a few extra channels I'd be curious about the Pure2, but I'd want to wait a while to hear more about issues, how it sounds, and can't see myself picking one up if they don't get it together and add ADAT functionality so I can actually integrate the thing.

Last edited by nms; 29th March 2015 at 02:56 AM..
Old 29th March 2015
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
the market is more flooded with crap than its ever been.
My point exactly when I said the best converters of yesteryear are better than the average converters today.
Old 29th March 2015
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
Sorry, I mistook your statement about "so so converters today" as saying the converters of today aren't as good or better.

Being the high end forum, in a thread about the most transparent ADC on the market, I don't know why you're talking about converters from the 90s or the mid level stuff of today which isn't relevant here.
I guess it's just like my post of those monitors that shall not be named lol

Half of my post is high end in that I'm recommending converters that cost thousands of dollars 20 years ago. High end is high end. If it produced good measurements then it still does now and usually products are price tiered by original design spec compared to final measurement and analysis (cost of production is usually minimal high end or not unless it's a hand made product). My point is that a $2000 converter today may not even be close in performance to a $2000 converter from 1995. Because $2000 today is not the same as $2000 then. A $2000 converter then is like an $8000 converter today, even if the sample rate is only 48kHz. So the clock in an old converter at 44.1kHz may be better, and the analog side will be better, than a 192kHz converter today. Because there are so many chips available and so many different designs now, it costs a lot of money to perfect something. That's why I always stuck with the Benchmark stuff because they really perfected their design and stuck with it. May not utilize the most advanced types of chip or anything, but they really made a product that did its job without any flaws and that's as useful today as it was then. My point was that a good product is a good product. There is stuff from the 90's that still blow away stuff made now until you start getting into the $5k+ territory. Obviously it's better to have the newer stuff but sometimes tried and true is better than cutting edge. A good example of this is the Titanic
Old 29th March 2015
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burns46824 View Post
BTW, I will have to post an example of a mix done with the 10M engaged and not engaged.
Hi, did you get a chance yet?
Old 30th March 2015
  #131
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burns46824's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering View Post
I prefer 44.1/24 or 48/24 over 2x or 4x speeds as well.
Please expatiate as to why!
Old 31st March 2015
  #132
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Hi Agno, wondering what ADC you finally settled down to if any? Also, I read from another thread that you've got that mighty m905, what do you think of its DAC? I know you sing highly of its analog stage. Thanks!
Old 31st March 2015
  #133
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a2dpapi's Avatar
 

Hands down I would go with BLA ADC. White or red sparrow will smoke most others in terms of accurately capturing. After 50 loops out and in, nothing holds up quite as well that we have tested so far. Would love it if someone would run tests and submit to our database:
Recording Gear Reviews - Product Comparison Tool
Choose converter: Loopback in dropdown. Then choose the original file, and the 50th loopback through any of the converters that have been submitted.

We have done rigorous testing both on empirical evidence and subjective listening. This includes the eclipse, prism, Hilo, which did really well.
Old 31st March 2015
  #134
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Agno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by hmouse View Post
Hi Agno, wondering what ADC you finally settled down to if any? Also, I read from another thread that you've got that mighty m905, what do you think of its DAC? I know you sing highly of its analog stage. Thanks!
I'm really enjoying the Mytek ST192 AD. It's pretty remarkable on how well it competes against current converters and designs. And that's not a testament to its era (still in the same era if you ask me), but it's a statement about the mentality and design of Mytek themselves. There's a reason why they have their reputation.

But like all things, it's about the craft and there are other units that I have yet to hear. I will say even though the myteks are "clean" or "transparent" sounding converters, they are some of the most musical / analog sounding converters on the market. They capture emotion in a magical way. Not to mention that they are both sonically and technically fantastic...everything so much more tangible. Like you can touch the sound. Mytek is going to be apart of my life for a long time. I can't wait to hear their new AD that's theyre working on. (Mentioned in an article with Michal from Mytek)

Specially with the ST192 AD, make sure you have the trim pots and calibration knob bypassed. That's how you achieve the best results.

The m905...man I love this thing as much as I do the Mytek. It's made my life so much easier. The DAC is scarily transparent in a musical way. It has a warmth to it but in an analog way. Not colored at all. Just soft, yet, extremely detailed and can be an clinical tool....but again, in a very musical way.
Old 31st March 2015
  #135
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Analogue Mastering's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by burns46824 View Post
Please expatiate as to why!
Don't know exactly, just sounds more "natural" to me, maybe it's my converters, but 96 (2x) and 192 (4x) sounds more "metallic"
Old 31st March 2015
  #136
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burns46824's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering View Post
Don't know exactly, just sounds more "natural" to me, maybe it's my converters, but 96 (2x) and 192 (4x) sounds more "metallic"
What converters are you using?
Old 31st March 2015
  #137
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Agno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering View Post
Don't know exactly, just sounds more "natural" to me, maybe it's my converters, but 96 (2x) and 192 (4x) sounds more "metallic"
That's strange...if you're capturing analogue signal higher sample rates should render better results. For 2 track summing capture 192k has sounded exponentially better than 44.1k & 48K. 96k is even great. I've done comparison tests, and even when converted to 44.1khz the higher sample rate captures sound better.

Might want to check your conversion on all fronts, both hardware and software.
Old 31st March 2015
  #138
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Analogue Mastering's Avatar
My conversion is RME ADI-8, SSL alphalink madi ax and SPL madison.
Has been a while since I experimented, but nowadays for higher rates i record/archive to DSD and convert from there.
Old 31st March 2015
  #139
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RoundBadge's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering View Post
Don't know exactly, just sounds more "natural" to me, maybe it's my converters, but 96 (2x) and 192 (4x) sounds more "metallic"
Interesting.
Have you tried some other conversion?
I've always captured at 96 or 192.
Always sounds better to me.
Old 31st March 2015
  #140
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Agno's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Analogue Mastering View Post
My conversion is RME ADI-8, SSL alphalink madi ax and SPL madison.
Has been a while since I experimented, but nowadays for higher rates i record/archive to DSD and convert from there.
Well if you're comparing to DSD lol

I'd try a dedicated converter 2ch like Mytek ST192 or similar to see if you experience something different.
Old 31st March 2015
  #141
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burns46824's Avatar
I know that at least one famous modern producer still tracks at 48 kHz over higher sampling rates because it apparently sounds "tighter." Interesting.
Old 15th February 2017
  #142
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dewalta's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniperschool View Post
I actually rate the AD stage of the Tascam DA3000

Lavry Gold & Prism AD-2 both used day in/day out here depending on the track
Burl B2 (and occasionally a HEDD) if I'm after a different feel
How would you rate the AD stage of the Tascam DA3000 in comparison to the big expensive converters mentioned here (Lavry Gold & Prism AD-2)?

Also taking in consideration that the Tascam DA3000 offers DSD i am wondering: How does the Tascam DA3000 using DSD (and possible down-converting) compare to the big boys - Burl, Lavry Gold & Prism AD-2 etc ??
Old 15th February 2017
  #143
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Sniperschool's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dewalta View Post
How would you rate the AD stage of the Tascam DA3000 in comparison to the big expensive converters mentioned here (Lavry Gold & Prism AD-2)?

Also taking in consideration that the Tascam DA3000 offers DSD i am wondering: How does the Tascam DA3000 using DSD (and possible down-converting) compare to the big boys - Burl, Lavry Gold & Prism AD-2 etc ??
I rate it and think the unit's an absolute bargain for what it does/what it offers
Not spent long converting DSD to 192/96 etc but when I have it held up well using Saracon
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