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Neumann KH310 vs Genelec 8250
Old 9th February 2015
  #1
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Soothing Sound's Avatar
Neumann KH310 vs Genelec 8250

Hello,

I'm undecided between these 2. My budget is 3500 euros max.

I already have the KH120, great speakers, my only complain is a subtle hiss when nothing is played. I'm afraid that might happen as well with the KH310...But it's a 3 way speaker and that's a +.

The Genelecs seem really good, Richard Devine and others use them. They have room correction DSP (good because I rent houses yearly and proper room treatment is not always possible).

Let me know what you think, thanks!
Old 9th February 2015
  #2
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I will need to let you know that after working with both extensively, I actually prefer Genelecs. They are less sterile (clinical) but accurate as well or even more. They also have much better "punch" and transients are more evident. Also imaging is one area where I still find Genelecs surpass the competition. The 3D provided by the Genelecs is unbelievable, especially after going through their room correction.

KH310 really extend very low, usable down to 30Hz, but their low end is not so interesting, IMHO slightly too controlled end restrained. I must also admit that I find out our I actually prefer speaker that have a certain character over more sterile options. KH310 are very clinical, Genelecs are gorgeous to listen to but accurate as well.

I had a chance to hear the brand new Genelecs 8351 and was simply blown away.
Old 9th February 2015
  #3
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Yes I think I'm putting the money into the genies. They are a tad cheaper too. I will try hard to listen them live first (not an easy task where I live)
Old 9th February 2015
  #4
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Both are good monitors, so there is no right/wrong decision. It is just that KH310 are not very rewarding for production and a great mixing tool, while Genelecs shine in both areas. Also Genelecs perform much better with electric guitars due to more crispy upper mids. KH310 sound softer and I had problems with mixing rock tunes. They both shine with electronic music though.
Old 10th February 2015
  #5
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I'm completely opposite. I would take the KH310's any day over those Genies..., which are very nice too, I just find the KH boxes to be the overall superior monitor. I find the KH310 to be an honest and exciting box to work with. Detailed acoustics and electric guitars are easy to nail, admittedly, I struggle with drums in them but its more to do with my limitations as an engineer than the effectiveness of these really fine monitors.
I've recently moved them much closer to each other and my work and my work experiences have both benefited from my reliance on the monitors and getting them set up properly. Takes time no matter what the choice I guess.
I've still not found the Genelacs I would like to be working in but it's just a personal issue, I always have great interest in their products.

We're relocating to the UK and I have to sell off my KH's off and I'm in a bit of a spin out as to how I am gonna get by for 18 months without them. If all goes to plan, I will definitely be buying another pair when we settle back down...:-)

I do agree, both are great choices..but the KH310 gets my vote unwaiveringly, be well
Old 10th February 2015
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneHall View Post
I'm completely opposite. I would take the KH310's any day over those Genies..., which are very nice too, I just find the KH boxes to be the overall superior monitor. I find the KH310 to be an honest and exciting box to work with. Detailed acoustics and electric guitars are easy to nail, admittedly, I struggle with drums in them but its more to do with my limitations as an engineer than the effectiveness of these really fine monitors.
I've recently moved them much closer to each other and my work and my work experiences have both benefited from my reliance on the monitors and getting them set up properly. Takes time no matter what the choice I guess.
I've still not found the Genelacs I would like to be working in but it's just a personal issue, I always have great interest in their products.

We're relocating to the UK and I have to sell off my KH's off and I'm in a bit of a spin out as to how I am gonna get by for 18 months without them. If all goes to plan, I will definitely be buying another pair when we settle back down...:-)

I do agree, both are great choices..but the KH310 gets my vote unwaiveringly, be well
Thanks for your input.

Like I said before, I can't predict how the room for the studio will be, due to yearly renting. I think genelec dsp room calibration/correction would help a lot? Maybe a deciding factor?
Old 10th February 2015
  #7
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Yeah, I do want that software as well. I think it's a indespensable tool if all that I hear about it, is true. Which I'm inclined to believe. Genelac is seriously nice kit.
Because I have to be flexible and very portable this coming year, I am considering grabbing a pair of 8020's and the software. I still can't come to terms with parting from the KH's at current but I do need an option other than my 702's!!:-)
Old 10th February 2015
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneHall View Post
I would take the KH310's any day over those Genies..., which are very nice too, I just find the KH boxes to be the overall superior monitor. I find the KH310 to be an honest and exciting box to work with.
Same here.
Old 10th February 2015
  #9
i just got the Genelec 8040s and I'm quite happy with them. They do need a sub to round out the bass and give the woofers a chance to focus on the low mids. I've no heard the Neumanns but they seem to be really well received.
Old 10th February 2015
  #10
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no need for a sub with the KH's
Old 10th February 2015
  #11
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Haven't tried the 8250, but I had the 8040A for many years. I could not get them to translate as well as my KH310 does.

They do sound big and 3d like but both the KH310's and KH120's are quite alot more accurate and detailed. They might sound a bit more boring and lifeless in comparison to the Genelecs but for mixing i think accuracy and detail is key.

But in the end if your mixes translates well on the Genelecs then all is well.



Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneHall View Post
no need for a sub with the KH's
+1000.
Old 26th February 2015
  #12
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Hi All,

I have both sets of these speakers currently in my possession. I've been working with the 310's exclusively for a few weeks now and I really like them! They are very neutral and in more complex music (orchestral, high track count, etc) I think they really shine by not muddying up all the parts. I've had the genelecs for a few days now and I am completely blown away by the corrective DSP. My room is small and well treated but I was having a huge spike at 50hz and another around 180hz. The DSP EQ really, really helped even this out. As for the sound of the Genelecs, they are very "3d" and possibly a wee bit bright, so I rolled off the top around 11.2Khz.

So...while i'm still evaluating the genelecs I think I will probably go for them. One of the great things the corrective DSP does is let you configure different sweet spots around the room...this was huge for me because I am a film composer and often have directors/producers over to approve cues, etc. Before I was having a lot of bass buildup in the back of the room where my guests sit and having that buildup really clouds their judgement when making approvals. With the push of a virtual button, I can change the focus from my position to theirs with the corrective features! The nuemann's while probably a bit easier on the ears just can't do this, though If it was just going to be my listening in the room I would probably pick them as I find the midrange to be more accurate (3-way vs 2-way).

Long story short, they are both excellent speakers but the DSP is very functional if you need it for clients or are traveling to other studios.
Old 26th February 2015
  #13
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Soothing Sound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjb0737 View Post
Hi All,

I have both sets of these speakers currently in my possession. I've been working with the 310's exclusively for a few weeks now and I really like them! They are very neutral and in more complex music (orchestral, high track count, etc) I think they really shine by not muddying up all the parts. I've had the genelecs for a few days now and I am completely blown away by the corrective DSP. My room is small and well treated but I was having a huge spike at 50hz and another around 180hz. The DSP EQ really, really helped even this out. As for the sound of the Genelecs, they are very "3d" and possibly a wee bit bright, so I rolled off the top around 11.2Khz.

So...while i'm still evaluating the genelecs I think I will probably go for them. One of the great things the corrective DSP does is let you configure different sweet spots around the room...this was huge for me because I am a film composer and often have directors/producers over to approve cues, etc. Before I was having a lot of bass buildup in the back of the room where my guests sit and having that buildup really clouds their judgement when making approvals. With the push of a virtual button, I can change the focus from my position to theirs with the corrective features! The nuemann's while probably a bit easier on the ears just can't do this, though If it was just going to be my listening in the room I would probably pick them as I find the midrange to be more accurate (3-way vs 2-way).

Long story short, they are both excellent speakers but the DSP is very functional if you need it for clients or are traveling to other studios.
Thanks for chiming in, that's what I needed to hear.
Old 26th February 2015
  #14
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i'm not anti-dsp in monitoring, it's a wonderful way of checking what's happening inside a daw. the crossovers do sound good in dsp. HOWEVER when monitoring my analogue stuff with dsp monitors all i can do is shake my head, the conversion is poison to the ears. dsp room correction is something i can live without.
Old 26th February 2015
  #15
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Hello,

It's depends what DSP.
Analog crossover replaced by DSP who suppress phase shift caused by the crossover and increase the time alignement, IMHO yes.

DSP for correct the frequency response anomalys's (bump) in the low end, IMHO why not.
DSP for correct beyond 200 hz , phase at the listening position with an average or in one measure, it's modern magic.
Old 26th February 2015
  #16
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Once you try the DSP Genelecs there's no way back IMHO. The accuracy is superb, imaging unreal and so is translation.

It will not turn bad acoustics into perfect listening spaces, but will make them usable. But it will bring great acoustic spaces into perfection.
Old 14th March 2015
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
Once you try the DSP Genelecs there's no way back IMHO. The accuracy is superb, imaging unreal and so is translation.

It will not turn bad acoustics into perfect listening spaces, but will make them usable. But it will bring great acoustic spaces into perfection.
Ok, I'm thinking stepping up the game, will these worth the cash? It's the double of the price of the Genelec 8250:




Source:
8351A
Old 14th March 2015
  #18
Gear Addict
 

Down to personal preference VS what you need out of your speakers for what sort of work?

The big "disadvantage" of the KH speakers are that, as they are very natural, they can appear to make everything sound good right away and let you have a "test drive" period learning how the speaker behaves on all sorts of material before you get what to do with the material. I'm personally no fan of the Genelec sound but many uses them. I guess they can be more forgiving and give a result that tickles you ears faster with a less treated room though,

If you need to work with all sorts of music you cannot go wrong with the KH. I upgraded my old 0300 pair to the KH310 last year as my near-field and second speaker reference in mastering so I work with a lot of music and I know the old 0300 since many years so it was natural for me.
Old 14th March 2015
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melopie View Post
Down to personal preference VS what you need out of your speakers for what sort of work?

The big "disadvantage" of the KH speakers are that, as they are very natural, they can appear to make everything sound good right away and let you have a "test drive" period learning how the speaker behaves on all sorts of material before you get what to do with the material. I'm personally no fan of the Genelec sound but many uses them. I guess they can be more forgiving and give a result that tickles you ears faster with a less treated room though,

If you need to work with all sorts of music you cannot go wrong with the KH. I upgraded my old 0300 pair to the KH310 last year as my near-field and second speaker reference in mastering so I work with a lot of music and I know the old 0300 since many years so it was natural for me.
The goal is meditative, ambient music and some berlin school as well in a non treated room, I rent houses in a yearly basis I can't use glue or drill walls.

TBH I want the best result from the monitors if they make my mixes a bit nicer it's not a problem if it's not crucial details, I can check later my mixes side-by-side with a pair of avantones, currently I'm using headphones for mixing and I notice huge differences between devices (mp3 player, laptop, car audio) so if I can step up the game to get a more even result it would be perfect.
Old 15th March 2015
  #20
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Untreated room I think the Genelec will work better because of the DSP. With some treatment and learning curve my money would be on the KH especially since you mention Ambient as the KH (for me) have the natural response and goes down a bit deeper.
Perhaps even pair them up with Sennheiser HD650 and you're golden!
Old 15th March 2015
  #21
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MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soothing Sound View Post
Ok, I'm thinking stepping up the game, will these worth the cash? It's the double of the price of the Genelec 8250:




Source:
8351A
Maybe Jantex can chime in again...after comparing to many of the top players...purchase these
Old 16th March 2015
  #22
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I've had KH310 for nearly a year and can honestly say that they cannot compare to 8351. 8351 are another league. They never sound compressed, produce higher SPL, are more relaxed, and more natural. They both extend to practically the same, but Genelecs pack more serious low end with more weight. Imaging and soundstage is the biggest difference between these two. With Genelecs you get the impression that the speaker disappears, because they sound so natural. Also the sound and separation is something really to be heard. Hi mids of Genelecs are also one of the areas where they completely stomp over KH310. Mids are so clear and articulate.

When you position them correctly in a great room and let GLM to do the final calibration, you have IMHO the most accurate monitoring you can imagine. Mixing/mastering has never been easier for me than with 8351 or 8260. I also have 8351 1,75cm apart and 8260 2,4m apart.

While 8351 sound superb withoug any phasing issues even with 0,5m distance due to the coaxial design, they of course sound much better with some distance. When using any serious full range speaker less than 1,5m away from the listening position, the sound stage and percieved tonal balance can never be as great as with greater distances. With 1,5m+ the speaker really disappears and you are listening to the wall of sound. But of course longer listening distances require the acoustics to be really good to tolerate them, that means you must have uncontrolled FR, good trapping and controlled RT.
Old 17th March 2015
  #23
Did you ever get a chance to listen to the new D-808 or D-606 from KS Digital, Jantex? I have been intrigued by what I had read about the KS ADM2 and 20, but their incredible price put them completely out of reach for me. However these new models are substantially cheaper, yet apparently sound very much like the ADM20.
I am thinking of going to them from my K+H 0300s. They are not easy to find, so have not had the chance to hear them, but from all reports, many of the KS Digital models appear to be superior to all the usual suspects (although I have yet to read of a comparison between them and the Amphions).

They are also the cheapest speaker in the KS line which has their Firtec FIR type DSP.
Old 20th March 2015
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post
I've had KH310 for nearly a year and can honestly say that they cannot compare to 8351. 8351 are another league. They never sound compressed, produce higher SPL, are more relaxed, and more natural. They both extend to practically the same, but Genelecs pack more serious low end with more weight. Imaging and soundstage is the biggest difference between these two. With Genelecs you get the impression that the speaker disappears, because they sound so natural. Also the sound and separation is something really to be heard. Hi mids of Genelecs are also one of the areas where they completely stomp over KH310. Mids are so clear and articulate.

When you position them correctly in a great room and let GLM to do the final calibration, you have IMHO the most accurate monitoring you can imagine. Mixing/mastering has never been easier for me than with 8351 or 8260. I also have 8351 1,75cm apart and 8260 2,4m apart.

While 8351 sound superb withoug any phasing issues even with 0,5m distance due to the coaxial design, they of course sound much better with some distance. When using any serious full range speaker less than 1,5m away from the listening position, the sound stage and percieved tonal balance can never be as great as with greater distances. With 1,5m+ the speaker really disappears and you are listening to the wall of sound. But of course longer listening distances require the acoustics to be really good to tolerate them, that means you must have uncontrolled FR, good trapping and controlled RT.
Thanks again for another awesome insight.

To complicate things a bit, how these compare to Quested v2108? The thing that makes me a little reticent about the Genelec 8351 is the coaxial design and it's pros and cons sound wise, because it's so different, almost prototype different if you know what I mean.
Old 20th March 2015
  #25
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I worked a fair bit on the Quested HQ210's and VH2108's back in the day. Good speakers, but I can't get in the zone with them; too dry and bland to vibe on for me. Engineers I know and respect do great work on them, though.

That said, I wouldn't mind having them as a secondary pair of monitors. They'd offer a nice contrast to something like Genelecs, for example.
Old 20th March 2015
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soothing Sound View Post
Thanks again for another awesome insight.

To complicate things a bit, how these compare to Quested v2108? The thing that makes me a little reticent about the Genelec 8351 is the coaxial design and it's pros and cons sound wise, because it's so different, almost prototype different if you know what I mean.
I tried Questeds v2108 and really loved them. When comparing them in the end I found Genelecs to have better low end and midrange definition. Genelecs are more precise and slightly more clinical, Questeds are all about the vibe. Questeds also generate too much heat for my liking and need more space for their sound to become cohesive. IMHO they are not true nearfield. Genelec 8351 work from very close distance to the long distance. Imaging of Genelecs is I believe the best in the business.

I am yet to find out any cons about Genelec's coaxial design. IMHO they offer so precise imaging especially due to this design.
Old 29th March 2015
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantex View Post

I am yet to find out any cons about Genelec's coaxial design. IMHO they offer so precise imaging especially due to this design.
I really want to pull the trigger with the 8351, unfortunately demoing these in my country is almost afaik impossible.

What is hard to swallow is the size of the internal woofers



when compared to these:



If this design is so revolutionary why doesn't other manufacturers adopt it? That's the ''prototype'' part that concerns me...
Old 31st March 2015
  #28
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How is this GML correction software that comes with this new Genelec ? Efficient ?
Old 10th April 2015
  #29
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Bump.
Old 11th April 2015
  #30
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interested in it as well. Would love to hear more of the Genelec 8351 from owners :-)
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