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Rack Mixer or Console? Consoles
Old 26th January 2015
  #1
Gear Head
 

Rack Mixer or Console?

Hello GS,

I need your advice regarding my setup. I´m running a OTB setup, with drum machines, synths, MPC (MASTER),...

I´m looking forward to get a decent Console for my studio. At the moment i have a yamaha 03d mixer, but i don´t like it! The workflow is not good for my needs. I want something fully analog with good EQ´s, preamps,... By the way i m doing sample based house music.

So i was thinking about rack mixers for tracking and then a small console for mixing(8-16 channels) like a toft or tl audio tube mixers...
Now i saw those manley 16x2 rack mixers and chandlers mini mixers, are those only for ITB setups with OTB summing? Or can i use a mixer like that with a 100% OTB setup?
Still don´t understand how i can put 32 inputs in those mixers since it is a 16x2 mixer...:///
Im confused!

What path should i take? Tracking mixer + Mixing console or should i go straight to a Bigger console?
Old 26th January 2015
  #2
Lives for gear
 

Hi
There are so many other questions and things you haven't said such as budget, willingness to buy second (third or more) hand and so on.
It may be a 16:2 but having a small summing unit as well to bring up extra inputs may be OK for the way you want to work.
Matt S
Old 26th January 2015
  #3
Gear Head
 

I don´t mind buying second hand and the budget really depends on what i get. For a console i was thinking about 10k but like i said i m flexible about the budget. I just wanna have a setup that i can work on properly
Old 26th January 2015
  #4
Lives for gear
 

Hi
That sounds like a realistic budget for a 32 channel size desk (second hand) if you are OK with the likes of Soundcraft, Amek, possibly Neotek D+R and so on.
Not to sound unkind but you don't seem 'technical' so you should perhaps look out for tech support in your area especially if going 'old' second hand. Gear does need looking at from time to time and if you are a long way from anywhere a 'newer' desk could be important.
Check out the facilities on various desks and try and rank what you actually NEED.
Matt S
Old 26th January 2015
  #5
Gear Head
 

Yes you are absolutely right, thats why i need a console that is build like a tank:P I wanna focus on my music. What do you think about this rack mixer + console setup? Can i use a manley rack mixer when doing OTB mix and setup?
Old 26th January 2015
  #6
Lives for gear
 

Hi
While rack mixers obviously do a job, you may find a 'real' mixer is more fun to work on.
Matt S
Old 26th January 2015
  #7
Gear Head
 

What about a Toft Atb, Trident 88, Tl Audio tube mixer?
Old 26th January 2015
  #8
Gear Head
 

I wanna preserve good quality and in no case loose quality
Old 26th January 2015
  #9
Lives for gear
 

Hi
Despite what others may say there are very few (if any) desks that are actually 'bad' if they are working properly.
Matt S
Old 26th January 2015
  #10
Gear Head
 

So Matt, if i buy a mackie 32/8 for ex? Am i gonna be fine or is it better to the high end way?
Old 26th January 2015
  #11
Lives for gear
 

Hi
There are some around here who would say it is worse than treading in 'dog doo' but if you get a chance to listen to one you may find it is actually OK and suits the way you want to work.
The main thing is that it has the facilities you need and you are comfortable with the layout.
A reliable and working 'lesser' desk is infinitely better than a 'massive name desk', possibly with a 'N' on it that is 'cream crackered' and needing constant maintenance.
Matt S
Old 27th January 2015
  #12
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
A Mackie 8-bus is not in the league of other things you are mentioning.
Old 27th January 2015
  #13
Gear Head
 

What would you suggest DRUMSOUND? getting a big desk for tracking and mixing? if yes, what desk? or should i get a rack mixer for tracking like a manley or candler ?
Old 28th January 2015
  #14
Lives for gear
 
Motoxxx's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
A Mackie 8-bus is not in the league of other things you are mentioning.
I agree with Drumnsound 100% on this. The Mackie 8 bus is crap and the navigation is bizzare and the FLIP switch (which switches the EQ to Auxes if memory serves) should stand for FEEDBACK LOOP IN PROGRESS....I cannot think of a mixer I despise more than the Mackie 8 buss. Also the way the SOLO function works is POST FADER which is also weird. Their newer desks are much better for sure.....Stay away from the 8 Bus!

If you are considering something like that, you would be much better off buying either a new Midas F series, or possibly stepping up to a used Midas Heritage 3000.

A good friend of mine has the Toft ATB32 and it has been a good sounding desk but a maintenance nightmare. I think his is one of the earlier ones that had some issues. I was told a while back by someone that worked for Toft that they had some big manufacturing issues with the earlier ones. Cool looking desk, but limited on features for the price.

Maybe a used Amek Big, Angela, Einstein, Hendrix etc? I bought an Amek Recall that was loaded with 56 of the Neve modules. It doesn't have tape returns so it has to be run like a split configuration console instead of an inline desk but the value for me has been off the charts!

Matt Syson can tell you anything you want to know about the Ameks.

The Soundcraft desks have been really reliable for me over the years. I actually almost bought a used Series V to stick into my new studio. I went with the Recall instead because of the Neve modules and the on board dynamics and recall function.
Old 28th January 2015
  #15
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bringback View Post
What would you suggest DRUMSOUND? getting a big desk for tracking and mixing? if yes, what desk? or should i get a rack mixer for tracking like a manley or candler ?
That kind of depends on your workflow, budget and desire. I've been pretty happy with my Neotek Elan II, which ain't no Neve, or API, but its a good desk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoxxx View Post
I agree with Drumnsound 100% on this. The Mackie 8 bus is crap and the navigation is bizzare and the FLIP switch (which switches the EQ to Auxes if memory serves) should stand for FEEDBACK LOOP IN PROGRESS....I cannot think of a mixer I despise more than the Mackie 8 buss. Also the way the SOLO function works is POST FADER which is also weird. Their newer desks are much better for sure.....Stay away from the 8 Bus!
The Hi/Low EQ could be routed to the Mix B (monitor mix) leaving the 2 mid bands in the main path. The FLIP had something to do with sending to tape, I think. It's been a lot of years. There were only 4 AUX send knobs, so there was a SHIFT button so the second two were either sends 3-4 OR 5-6 but never both.

The biggest issue was the sound. The more I learned, the less I liked it. I'm glad I didn't pay for it!
Old 28th January 2015
  #16
Lives for gear
 
Motoxxx's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
The Hi/Low EQ could be routed to the Mix B (monitor mix) leaving the 2 mid bands in the main path. The FLIP had something to do with sending to tape, I think. It's been a lot of years. There were only 4 AUX send knobs, so there was a SHIFT button so the second two were either sends 3-4 OR 5-6 but never both.

The biggest issue was the sound. The more I learned, the less I liked it. I'm glad I didn't pay for it!
I hated the switchable auxes on that thing too as well as how the EQ was laid out. All I remember about the FLIP switch was is made very bad things happen if you accidentally hit it in a live sound situation. And of course they put it right where a line or a pad switch would typically be located so lots of engineers got bit by the FEEDBACK LOOP IN PROGRESS switch!

To the OPs question....A desk is so much cooler to look at than a rack mount mixer!
Old 28th January 2015
  #17
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoxxx View Post
I hated the switchable auxes on that thing too as well as how the EQ was laid out. All I remember about the FLIP switch was is made very bad things happen if you accidentally hit it in a live sound situation. And of course they put it right where a line or a pad switch would typically be located so lots of engineers got bit by the FEEDBACK LOOP IN PROGRESS switch!

To the OPs question....A desk is so much cooler to look at than a rack mount mixer!
You mean where the polarity reverse should have been...
Old 28th January 2015
  #18
Lives for gear
 

Hi
The ergonomics are probably the death of many bits of gear that otherwise would be fine.
Matt S
Old 28th January 2015
  #19
Lives for gear
 
Motoxxx's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drumsound View Post
You mean where the polarity reverse should have been...
Depends on the desk......Sometimes pad, sometimes polarity...
I remember hitting that damn button thinking it was a pad or line switch...I learned the hard way that it was neither!
Old 28th January 2015
  #20
Gear Guru
 
Drumsound's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoxxx View Post
Depends on the desk......Sometimes pad, sometimes polarity...
I remember hitting that damn button thinking it was a pad or line switch...I learned the hard way that it was neither!
I was moreso pointing out that the Mackie lacks a polarity reverse.
Old 29th January 2015
  #21
Gear Head
 

Thank you for your feedback! Really helpful I just checked the size of those Neotek, amek,...desks. They are too big for my studio :/ The biggest i can go is a toft 32 kind of console.
Old 30th January 2015
  #22
SEED78
Guest
a well thought out D&R Vision combo would get you what you want below the 10k budget. A 19" rack with a load of dual line modules (not stereo, dual, 2 faders on 1 channel strip) and some group modules.
VISION | D&R Mixing Consoles

Failing that a old Calrec or Cadac (with the right modules), plus a complete service and look over by a really skilled tech. In the Uk that would be Matt Syson.

There really is some amazing 2nd hand mixers out there these days, MCI's, Studer, all sorts - you have to just know what you are looking for and have someone really good to hand to fix or configure it to you needs. Any console repairs are not for anyone who has a tight budget. But with 10k you can do it with the right tech and the right console.
Old 30th January 2015
  #23
Lives for gear
 
MIKEHARRIS's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bringback View Post
Thank you for your feedback! Really helpful I just checked the size of those Neotek, amek,...desks. They are too big for my studio :/ The biggest i can go is a toft 32 kind of console.
A bit above budget...but check the size & features of the Audient 4816.
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