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Trident 88 or keep my Soundcraft Ghost?
Old 19th January 2020
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischoir View Post
nice boogie amp, late 70s?
77 with a 15” k130.
Old 20th January 2020
  #92
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I can't seem to upload the file that shows the Automation working...

So here it is

https://www.facebook.com/alan.hyatt1...8303308792642/
Old 20th January 2020
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexaCali View Post
Awesome! This also addresses my biggest gripe with the 88, lack of SIP! Looks like an awesome system. Can't wait to see more photos, pricing, etc. Looking very promising!

The 88 offers both AFL and PFL... AFL is solo in place.
Old 20th January 2020
  #94
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Trident 88 is a way better console than the Ghost.

Pres and EQs are in a whole other league. Get the 88

Last edited by bcgood; 22nd January 2020 at 01:23 AM..
Old 21st January 2020
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanhyatt View Post
I can't seem to upload the file that shows the Automation working...

So here it is

https://www.facebook.com/alan.hyatt1...8303308792642/
Can’t view it. Where can I view
Old 21st January 2020
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digiplex View Post
Can’t view it. Where can I view
This is where you can view it on Facebook...

https://www.facebook.com/alan.hyatt1...8303308792642/
Or go to Facebook and search my name...Alan Hyatt. Scroll down my posts and you will see it...

If not, PM me with your email and I will either Dropbox it to you or see if it can be emailed to you. I can't load it up as it is a movie file, and Gearslutz does not support it...
Old 21st January 2020
  #97
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The target price for the TriMix automation is $3,999.99 per 8 channels.
Old 22nd January 2020
  #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanhyatt View Post
The target price for the TriMix automation is $3,999.99 per 8 channels.
So my dream 88 with auto comes in under 60k!
Old 22nd January 2020
  #99
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The reality when talking about consoles is that ANYTHING new has to compete with what is already out there and it's depreciation. The used market has many examples of desks now at 10% of their original street price. So you take the new Trident at $60k vs. a desk that was $80k new that is now $8k or for that matter some desks that were over $200k new now at 20% of that. Some used digital desks are even going for less than 10% as I picked up Yamaha's top dog PM1D recently which started at $110k (which can be used with or without it's mixer control surface so if doing the Hybrid thing with racks of outboard you have NO footprint, just remote modules which have mic pres and converters too for high I/O channel counts). So unless you are looking for EXACTLY what the new Trident offers, it definately has some strong competition with the used market. It's sad for the guys making new stuff but its the economics of supply and demand like with every other product.
Old 22nd January 2020
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
The reality when talking about consoles is that ANYTHING new has to compete with what is already out there and it's depreciation. The used market has many examples of desks now at 10% of their original street price. So you take the new Trident at $60k vs. a desk that was $80k new that is now $8k or for that matter some desks that were over $200k new now at 20% of that. Some used digital desks are even going for less than 10% as I picked up Yamaha's top dog PM1D recently which started at $110k (which can be used with or without it's mixer control surface so if doing the Hybrid thing with racks of outboard you have NO footprint, just remote modules which have mic pres and converters too for high I/O channel counts). So unless you are looking for EXACTLY what the new Trident offers, it definately has some strong competition with the used market. It's sad for the guys making new stuff but its the economics of supply and demand like with every other product.
I understand what you are saying, but your rational does not work for everyone. A $200K console cost that because 30 years that was the price to do it, so if you pay $40K for that old console, it does not necessarily make it a good deal. Generally, older consoles will come with issues. Parts are hard to get, and the specs on older consoles are usually high. They have crosstalk, noise, high distortion, and heat has been a contributor to making their PC boards brittle and drying out capacitors.

You also have to deal with the size of the older consoles, which are huge. If you do not have the room for them, what good are they. Getting a warranty is also helpful. The Trident is a three year warranty...

So I don't think we are competing against older consoles. You have to work on them all the time, and in house techs are a thing of the past. Most owners do their own servicing these days. Older consoles are a pain to work on. So it's what works best for the individual. Having worked on so many older consoles, I find the new technology is far superior. Just my two cents!
Old 22nd January 2020
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digiplex View Post
So my dream 88 with auto comes in under 60k!

A 24 input Series 88 mono frame with automation comes in at $49K. The 32 input mono frame with automation comes in at $62K

That is list price. I am sure you can get a deal out there!!!!
Old 23rd January 2020
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
The reality when talking about consoles is that ANYTHING new has to compete with what is already out there and it's depreciation. The used market has many examples of desks now at 10% of their original street price. So you take the new Trident at $60k vs. a desk that was $80k new that is now $8k or for that matter some desks that were over $200k new now at 20% of that. Some used digital desks are even going for less than 10% as I picked up Yamaha's top dog PM1D recently which started at $110k (which can be used with or without it's mixer control surface so if doing the Hybrid thing with racks of outboard you have NO footprint, just remote modules which have mic pres and converters too for high I/O channel counts). So unless you are looking for EXACTLY what the new Trident offers, it definately has some strong competition with the used market. It's sad for the guys making new stuff but its the economics of supply and demand like with every other product.
I think SOME of the old consoles can be a good deal for someone doing this for the pure love of it and willing to get their hands dirty. But there are also a lot of issues with older consoles (esp if you want automation to work), they often have huge footprints, consume lots of power, and the layout isn't always ideal for a modern DAW environment.

For those that are trying to run a commercial studio or efficiently produce recordings with their own band, modern consoles (like the Trident) make a lot of sense. Of course $50-60K is pile of cash and many people are making do without a console these days, but considering the labor and materials cost, I think the Trident offerings are pretty reasonable.

The big question in my mind is how do the switches, pots, faders, and other various components in the Trident console compare with those in say an API, which costs 2x as much for a similar configured console (Trident 88-24 with automation ~$49K, API 2448 w/ automation ~$99K). Is Trident using less expensive components that won't last as long, is API charging a huge premium for the name, or is there something else going on to justify the price gap?
Old 23rd January 2020
  #103
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Alan and Mark have valid points and that is what competition is all about, looking at the pros and cons and deciding which fit your needs best while hopefully leaving room for the future. You pick your poisen with all things audio and a feature or something on the pro list for one person can be a limitation and on the con list of someone else. Small footprint desks are a particular niche but then you have the no footprint option or even the PM1D I mentioned above which can do no footprint (run brain and I/O modules from computer), large footprint (run it's large automated 96 channel recallable control surface also), or small footprint (run many smaller footprint digital mixers to use as a control surface with it). For service and cost you could pick up two complete systems for under $15k (original cost $220k+) for redundancy (there is even a mirror mode) and additionally have easy to swap within 5 minute modules for 24/7 operation without downtime. That is just one example of realistic competition from the used market, there are plenty examples of all analog and digitally controled analog desks too (many of which WILL have a larger footprint however the other side of that coin is thats what clients expect to see in a desk). The bottom line for this OP and others like them is to focus on specific needs and research ALL the options out there to get to their own short list of canidates, be it new or used.

Alan, did your little friend in your avatar pick the Old Style or Bud to drink? lol
Old 23rd January 2020
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
Alan and Mark have valid points and that is what competition is all about, looking at the pros and cons and deciding which fit your needs best while hopefully leaving room for the future. You pick your poisen with all things audio and a feature or something on the pro list for one person can be a limitation and on the con list of someone else. Small footprint desks are a particular niche but then you have the no footprint option or even the PM1D I mentioned above which can do no footprint (run brain and I/O modules from computer), large footprint (run it's large automated 96 channel recallable control surface also), or small footprint (run many smaller footprint digital mixers to use as a control surface with it). For service and cost you could pick up two complete systems for under $15k (original cost $220k+) for redundancy (there is even a mirror mode) and additionally have easy to swap within 5 minute modules for 24/7 operation without downtime. That is just one example of realistic competition from the used market, there are plenty examples of all analog and digitally controled analog desks too (many of which WILL have a larger footprint however the other side of that coin is thats what clients expect to see in a desk). The bottom line for this OP and others like them is to focus on specific needs and research ALL the options out there to get to their own short list of canidates, be it new or used.

Alan, did your little friend in your avatar pick the Old Style or Bud to drink? lol
The topic is not which outdated digital desk should I buy used. It’s about two analog desks. If I wanted digital summing I’d just stay in the box and pick my favorite emulator.
Old 23rd January 2020
  #105
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OP just states he has a lot of outboard and if he went with the new Trident he would go into debt. The one possible digital solution I mentioned above gives him a no footprint or a small footprint option that lets you use racks and racks of outboard for a small used price which includes 96+ channels of high end remote controlled mic pres, converters, matrix routing, automation, and recall. So basically a low cost, high end, high channel count Hybrid option. If he wants to go full analog he could grab a used AMR 1600 or 2400 desk for under $2500 and chop them down for a smaller footprint if needed (OP doesn't specify they need a small footprint). Then do a full recap and he would be good to go for the next 20+ years for very little money. That desk's sonics sounds better to my ears than his Ghost. It also has 8 auxes, 16 or 24 busses, physical pre and post balanced sends/returns, and all balanced I/O. I've just touched on a couple options.

Basically when I see anyone here entertaining going into debt to grab some gear I want them to be aware of all of their options.

Last edited by Bassmankr; 23rd January 2020 at 05:02 PM..
Old 23rd January 2020
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexaCali View Post
I think SOME of the old consoles can be a good deal for someone doing this for the pure love of it and willing to get their hands dirty. But there are also a lot of issues with older consoles (esp if you want automation to work), they often have huge footprints, consume lots of power, and the layout isn't always ideal for a modern DAW environment.

For those that are trying to run a commercial studio or efficiently produce recordings with their own band, modern consoles (like the Trident) make a lot of sense. Of course $50-60K is pile of cash and many people are making do without a console these days, but considering the labor and materials cost, I think the Trident offerings are pretty reasonable.

The big question in my mind is how do the switches, pots, faders, and other various components in the Trident console compare with those in say an API, which costs 2x as much for a similar configured console (Trident 88-24 with automation ~$49K, API 2448 w/ automation ~$99K). Is Trident using less expensive components that won't last as long, is API charging a huge premium for the name, or is there something else going on to justify the price gap?
We were never attempting to compete with API or Ruppert Neve on price point. I think our consoles hold up to those extremely well, however, they are still using the same design and build technology from decades ago. Our pots for example are rated at 100K turns. I am not sure you can find out what API or RND actually is. A pot uses a substrate and while you can pay a huge amount for a Greyhill pot used by API, it does not offer any sonic advantage than what we use. Our pots are are all sealed, so no dust gets in, and as I said, they are rated at 100K turns. All of our switches are gold and very good quality. Again, they are a switch. The switch does not effect any sonic properties on a console.

We went with the best current quality we could, using modern components and manufacturing process, making our consoles extremely easy to service and support. It does not mean we offer any less quality than API or RND. If you have to service your own console, I actually think you would want our Trident over theirs because it is so easy to service if needed.

Again, should you want to pay double the price for the same performance, that is up to the individual. We designed Trident to be more modern, and easier to manufacture. The result is it costs less to produce. The Series 88 and 78 are made in the USA in Gardena, California. API and RND are a one year warranty. Trident is three years! That is how confident we are about the quality...
Old 24th January 2020
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanhyatt View Post
We were never attempting to compete with API or Ruppert Neve on price point. I think our consoles hold up to those extremely well, however, they are still using the same design and build technology from decades ago. Our pots for example are rated at 100K turns. I am not sure you can find out what API or RND actually is. A pot uses a substrate and while you can pay a huge amount for a Greyhill pot used by API, it does not offer any sonic advantage than what we use. Our pots are are all sealed, so no dust gets in, and as I said, they are rated at 100K turns. All of our switches are gold and very good quality. Again, they are a switch. The switch does not effect any sonic properties on a console.

We went with the best current quality we could, using modern components and manufacturing process, making our consoles extremely easy to service and support. It does not mean we offer any less quality than API or RND. If you have to service your own console, I actually think you would want our Trident over theirs because it is so easy to service if needed.

Again, should you want to pay double the price for the same performance, that is up to the individual. We designed Trident to be more modern, and easier to manufacture. The result is it costs less to produce. The Series 88 and 78 are made in the USA in Gardena, California. API and RND are a one year warranty. Trident is three years! That is how confident we are about the quality...
Thank you Alan. This largely confirms what I suspected, there is no meaningful difference between the Trident 88 series and the similar API/RND offerings at 2x the price.

To the OP - If you upgrade your Ghost I think the main differences between the Ghost and the Trident become workflow and serviceability/reliability. My assumption is you can make the Ghost into a clean, transparent board that is sonically as good as anything else. Color is another matter, but that can be handled with outboard. So the question becomes do you like the layout, routing, and eq's on the Ghost? Or would the Trident suit you better? And can you deal with the repair down time on the Ghost vs the ability to just pull/swap a module on the Trident?

Bassmankr raises a good point - Dig through the manuals on the Trident and everything else you are considering and really think what working with that piece of gear would mean to your workflow.

As far as debt goes, sometimes the only way to grow a business is to invest, which might mean borrowing money....but borrowing money for something that doesn't improve your business and enable you to make more money is a recipe for failure....only you can answer which case applies here.
Old 24th January 2020
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edvdr76 View Post
Hello my fellow Gearslutz. Just wanted to know what's your guy's take on that new Trident 88. I've had a Soundcraft Ghost in my studio for what seems like forever. Mind you, I have a lot of outboard gear, so it gets used mostly for monitoring and EQ tweeks here and there. Now my question is, should I save the money, keep my Ghost and hot rod it, or go balls out and get in to debt with the Trident 88?
I'll echo what Texicali said, it's all about your workflow. The Ghost is an awesome console but it sounds like you are just looking for a change? I use an Allen & Heath GL2800 40 ch. I know some will frown upon it but it's true and quiet. And it's size and layout work perfectly for what we need and it's been running for years 24/7 without issue.

If you are going to sell your Ghost for a Trident 88 and spend $30k doing it, you need to know exactly what you are getting as that $30k could get you a boat load of amazing gear instead.
Old 25th January 2020
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingMusician View Post
I'll echo what Texicali said, it's all about your workflow. The Ghost is an awesome console but it sounds like you are just looking for a change? I use an Allen & Heath GL2800 40 ch. I know some will frown upon it but it's true and quiet. And it's size and layout work perfectly for what we need and it's been running for years 24/7 without issue.

If you are going to sell your Ghost for a Trident 88 and spend $30k doing it, you need to know exactly what you are getting as that $30k could get you a boat load of amazing gear instead.
At least for me with a Trident 88 I’d look at it as having something that would last a really long time. Also it has transformers so I’d have that thick sound like on the classic recordings. I’d think about those things because it’s hard to find on a new console
Old 25th January 2020
  #110
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As someone who researched a lot of information on old drool worthy consoles, including reading just about every manual and listening to actual songs recorded on said consoles, I have come to just one conclusion.

You couldn’t give me an old console or tape machine. The simple reality behind that debate is as time goes by, console manufacturers refine what they know and fix problems provided by user feedback.

The newest technology in this place and time is going to be far superior to the past technology, outside of nostalgia and quirkiness, which I completely understand.

Now it was brought up that $150k consoles are going for under $20k and such. There is a real good reason for that. No one who knows anything about these consoles wants a damn thing to do with them.

They are huge and suck ungodly amounts of power which is quickly dissipated as heat, degrading everything around it. They are unwieldy and break down frequently. And a good majority of them have hundreds of knobs pots and switches who’s shelf life expired a long time ago.

Think about it this way, did the engineers of the 1970’s ignore the Neve consoles so as to go buy a 1950’s console for pennies on the dollar? Did the engineers of the 1980’s shun the SSL 4000 G for a console from the 1960’s?

Hell no they didn’t.

Pat
Old 25th January 2020
  #111
Gear Maniac
 

Does the Trident come with schematics/tech manual?

If not - don't bother.

Only - and I mean only purchase one that has a schematic.

Alan - do you provide a schematic with the T88?
Old 26th January 2020
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space1999 View Post
As someone who researched a lot of information on old drool worthy consoles, including reading just about every manual and listening to actual songs recorded on said consoles, I have come to just one conclusion.

You couldn’t give me an old console or tape machine.
I think it's important to not throw every "old" machine into the same group. We use a Studer A80 and Otari MTR 12 recorders for mastering. They are physically over built and designed to run 24/7 (and they do). Everything is modular and parts are abundant so they are stress free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quantumphysics View Post
Does the Trident come with schematics/tech manual?
If not - don't bother.
Only - and I mean only purchase one that has a schematic.
Alan - do you provide a schematic with the T88?
If they don't provide a schematic I wouldn't fault Trident. We can blame the likes of Behringer for that, as they will without hesitation replicate anything at will, circuit by circuit, using the actual schematics.
Old 26th January 2020
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingMusician View Post
I'll echo what Texicali said, it's all about your workflow. The Ghost is an awesome console but it sounds like you are just looking for a change? I use an Allen & Heath GL2800 40 ch. I know some will frown upon it but it's true and quiet. And it's size and layout work perfectly for what we need and it's been running for years 24/7 without issue.

If you are going to sell your Ghost for a Trident 88 and spend $30k doing it, you need to know exactly what you are getting as that $30k could get you a boat load of amazing gear instead.
This thread is 5 years old. Wonder what the OP did in the end?
Old 26th January 2020
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space1999 View Post
As someone who researched a lot of information on old drool worthy consoles, including reading just about every manual and listening to actual songs recorded on said consoles, I have come to just one conclusion.

You couldn’t give me an old console or tape machine. The simple reality behind that debate is as time goes by, console manufacturers refine what they know and fix problems provided by user feedback.

The newest technology in this place and time is going to be far superior to the past technology, outside of nostalgia and quirkiness, which I completely understand.

Now it was brought up that $150k consoles are going for under $20k and such. There is a real good reason for that. No one who knows anything about these consoles wants a damn thing to do with them.

They are huge and suck ungodly amounts of power which is quickly dissipated as heat, degrading everything around it. They are unwieldy and break down frequently. And a good majority of them have hundreds of knobs pots and switches who’s shelf life expired a long time ago.

Think about it this way, did the engineers of the 1970’s ignore the Neve consoles so as to go buy a 1950’s console for pennies on the dollar? Did the engineers of the 1980’s shun the SSL 4000 G for a console from the 1960’s?

Hell no they didn’t.

Pat
Well said...some of these consoles can add up to $400.00 a month just for the electric bill, pots get hard to find, PC boards get brittle as a result of the intense heat, which also suck the life out of capacitors.

Lastly, you are correct. Console technology has been refined over the decades. The newer consoles are much superior in spec...
Old 26th January 2020
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bassmankr View Post
The reality when talking about consoles is that ANYTHING new has to compete with what is already out there and it's depreciation. The used market has many examples of desks now at 10% of their original street price. So you take the new Trident at $60k vs. a desk that was $80k new that is now $8k or for that matter some desks that were over $200k new now at 20% of that. Some used digital desks are even going for less than 10% as I picked up Yamaha's top dog PM1D recently which started at $110k (which can be used with or without it's mixer control surface so if doing the Hybrid thing with racks of outboard you have NO footprint, just remote modules which have mic pres and converters too for high I/O channel counts). So unless you are looking for EXACTLY what the new Trident offers, it definately has some strong competition with the used market. It's sad for the guys making new stuff but its the economics of supply and demand like with every other product.
I sat in front of the Namm vu-based 88 several times.

The moving faders were latched to Pro Tools, seemed to be very responsive, and you could easily, instantly physically move a fader and the daw would respond, move a daw fader and the channel fader would respond...basic stuff just to verify communication is intact.

I've said it elsewhere.....it feels so good to me when sitting in front of that 88c. It just feels "right" as I reach around the controls. The depth is right, the height of the meter bridge is right. And on & on. Plus, Trident is here in LA.

No other Namm board felt that way (origin, neve, rnd etc).

Not sure what I'm going to do yet. But for me personally, depreciation isn't remotely a factor.

When something like this simply feels right......
Old 26th January 2020
  #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingMusician View Post
I think it's important to not throw every "old" machine into the same group. We use a Studer A80 and Otari MTR 12 recorders for mastering. They are physically over built and designed to run 24/7 (and they do). Everything is modular and parts are abundant so they are stress free.



If they don't provide a schematic I wouldn't fault Trident. We can blame the likes of Behringer for that, as they will without hesitation replicate anything at will, circuit by circuit, using the actual schematics.
Our manual supplies signal flow charts. Every manufacturer is apprehensive to supply their circuit designs, even to the DIY guys. This is how so many clones of products hit the market. They take the IP and schematics and rip them, creating a new brand, promote it and often succeed. I am not going to mention the many companies that have done this over the last three to five years.

We would rather not see modifications done, because when you change one thing...it affects something else. As for service and support, we excel at that, as long as you call us. Don't drop something on a web page or Facebook site, because we often do not see it. You have an issue, call us!
Old 26th January 2020
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenoodle View Post
I sat in front of the Namm vu-based 88 several times.

The moving faders were latched to Pro Tools, seemed to be very responsive, and you could easily, instantly physically move a fader and the daw would respond, move a daw fader and the channel fader would respond...basic stuff just to verify communication is intact.

I've said it elsewhere.....it feels so good to me when sitting in front of that 88c. It just feels "right" as I reach around the controls. The depth is right, the height of the meter bridge is right. And on & on. Plus, Trident is here in LA.

No other Namm board felt that way (origin, neve, rnd etc).

Not sure what I'm going to do yet. But for me personally, depreciation isn't remotely a factor.

When something like this simply feels right......
This is the point. A console must fit you. If has to have the feature set you want. The workflow needs to yours, not ours. That is why the 88C is so special. You set the workflow...not us.

At the end of the day, why discourage anyone from spending money. The money is theirs to spend. If that budget is $10K, $30K, $60K, or $150K...it is their budget. They will be using the desk they buy for decades, especially if it is a new one. An older console that is already 30 years old, just does not have a lot of life left. When you have 300K miles on an engine in your car, it is going to need replacement. You can only rebuild things so many times before you can't anymore.
Old 26th January 2020
  #118
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Digiplex's Avatar
 

Is the 88c the one where you can specify the center rack design?
Old 26th January 2020
  #119
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alanhyatt's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Digiplex View Post
Is the 88c the one where you can specify the center rack design?
The 88C can be arranged anyway you want it. You can put inputs where you want, and as well as the master and groups....in any order. As for the producers desk(center rack), you can have that anywhere as well. On the left, right, center, or set to the left or right of any module bank. You can also have as many producers desks as you want. So if you want one on the left, one in the center, and one on the right, you can do that.

This is what is so attractive about the Series 88C. You just can't do that on other consoles.
Old 27th January 2020
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space1999 View Post
As someone who researched a lot of information on old drool worthy consoles, including reading just about every manual and listening to actual songs recorded on said consoles, I have come to just one conclusion.
Good work, did you make any recordings on any of those consoles?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Space1999 View Post
You couldn’t give me an old console or tape machine. The simple reality behind that debate is as time goes by, console manufacturers refine what they know and fix problems provided by user feedback.
At which point they introduce a new "feature" and have a whole new set of bugs to work out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Space1999 View Post
The newest technology in this place and time is going to be far superior to the past technology, outside of nostalgia and quirkiness, which I completely understand.
Except when progress means reducing manufacturing costs, this often impacts quality and makes repair more difficult (and necessary).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Space1999 View Post
Now it was brought up that $150k consoles are going for under $20k and such. There is a real good reason for that. No one who knows anything about these consoles wants a damn thing to do with them.
I know quite a bit about them and want to spend more time with them, one of my favourite things is that your opinion is shared by many, which is what makes them so cheap.
People like to have the latest and greatest, which means I can pick up the bargains. I don't believe recordings have really got better sounding in the last 60 years, just different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Space1999 View Post
They are huge and suck ungodly amounts of power which is quickly dissipated as heat, degrading everything around it. They are unwieldy and break down frequently. And a good majority of them have hundreds of knobs pots and switches who’s shelf life expired a long time ago.
Some do have high demands when it comes to energy, some don't (my desk was from an O.B. truck that was designed to be powered entirely from two 13 amp sockets). Replacement power supplies are available which can considerably improve the situation.
Switches and pots don't have a "shelf life" really, they wear out, like tyres on a car. Would you sell your car because the tyres wore out?
My current console has broken down once in about 10 years of work in a professional environment, many less times than my computer has spat the dummy in that time, and I was still able to pull some channels and finish the session.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Space1999 View Post
Think about it this way, did the engineers of the 1970’s ignore the Neve consoles so as to go buy a 1950’s console for pennies on the dollar? Did the engineers of the 1980’s shun the SSL 4000 G for a console from the 1960’s?

Hell no they didn’t.

Pat
There certainly were engineers using gear from the 60's and 70's in the 80's.
A SSL 4000G was not something an small business could afford often so they would use what they could get. Just like now.

Motives for upgrading are not often based around the sound quality of a piece of equipment, new gear was/is bought in to; add features, attract clients with the latest gadgets, spend money that would otherwise go to the taxman, the list goes on....

If you don't need the latest and greatest you don't need to chase the upgrade cycle, pick and choose what you like.
If you like new stuff, have at it....
If you like vintage gear, it's all out there at mostly reasonable prices (of course there will always be some pieces that are hugely overpriced but on the whole used is cheaper) I try to buy equipment that will either hold it's value or appreciate.

The only way I can afford to have a studio full of top of the range equipment is to buy used, if properly maintained things don't sound worse as they get older.
You cant get a preamp that sounds "better" than the ones on my desk, just different and it was made in the 80's. Newer doesn't automatically mean better.

Anyway, keep buying the new stuff, someone has to so I can get the cast offs at a very reasonable price...... I hope none of this has changed your mind.
Maybe I shouldn't post this..... Move along, nothing to see here..... You're selling your old gear? Won't be worth much, I'll take it off your hands, it will just be a pain to get rid of....
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