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-   -   Trident 88 or keep my Soundcraft Ghost? (https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/982551-trident-88-keep-my-soundcraft-ghost.html)

PKirrk 25th February 2015 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianellefson (Post 10845467)
I haven't heard an 88 yet, but I handled the first one made at NAMM last year and it feels solidly built. The channel strips feel ridgid and look well laid out. The option for transformers is very cool. It just FEELS like a bigger console even though it's practically portable.

I like those old Ghosts. And modded they sound good. However if I were putting together a studio that other people would coming to - I'd choose the 88. It's got that "This is what a console is suppose to look and feel like" attitude to it. And I could be totally wrong, but judging by the materials and construction quality - I bet it sounds great.

That's a pretty good point.

We must choose our poison. DO we go with what we know and immediately get results that clients like...or do we get more clients initially with the wow factor, but take a chance on sonic unknowns?

I got burnt on the latter...Loaded up on a well known expensive pre on a new build that never really delivered for me...waaay prefer the Ghost...even with it's "****ty" preamps

alanhyatt 25th February 2015 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PKirrk (Post 10846259)
Yeah I've heard that before, but somehow the "just a ghost" seems to make pleasing recordings time after time after time...

There's something about those consoles that sounds great...so why fight it. If we are that hung up about it not saying API or Trident or Neve...then cover up the name...

it's definitely not lacking sonically to me and it holds up to its specs and real world abuse quite nicely...somehow sound craft nailed it with that one and it's predecessor...and thats it really


It's what ever floats your bubble!!!hooppie

PKirrk 25th February 2015 01:59 PM

Clients being stoked at how great it sounds floats my bubble...them being stoked about the pics in my website...not so much

brianellefson 25th February 2015 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PKirrk (Post 10846274)
That's a pretty good point.

We must choose our poison. DO we go with what we know and immediately get results that clients like...or do we get more clients initially with the wow factor, but take a chance on sonic unknowns?

I got burnt on the latter...Loaded up on a well known expensive pre on a new build that never really delivered for me...waaay prefer the Ghost...even with it's "****ty" preamps

Well, I wouldn't buy something like this without listening to it work first … But I was more just saying that being around a Ghost and the Trident 88 - the Trident is just head and shoulders above the ghost in construction quality and the feel of the materials. I removed a channel strip and looked at things pretty closely and its really well made. I could NOT tell you how it sounds as this was at NAMM last year and it wasn't set up to anything while I was there. But if they both sounded identical - I'd take the Trident no question.

twentyhertz 25th February 2015 07:49 PM

here's another vote for checking out a used neotek. Crazy value (imo) at this time. Punches right up there with big name consoles from the era for a fraction of the cost.

alanhyatt 25th February 2015 11:21 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Well we are building another one right now for another customer...Hand made in the USA in Gardena, California. Three year parts and labor warranty with an optional two year warranty for a total of five year Parts and labor warranty. We are so confident about the design, build, and specs, we are standing behind this console with a very good warranty.

miniqtone 25th February 2015 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanhyatt (Post 10848687)
Well we are building another one right now for another customer...Hand made in the USA in Gardena, California. Three year parts and labor warranty with an optional two year warranty for a total of five year Parts and labor warranty. We are so confident about the design, build, and specs, we are standing behind this console with a very good warranty.

Drool, looks fantastic just like a Trident should! I'd love a chance to drive one. What is the MSRP?
BTW Alan, CAL stands for Creation Audio Labs in Nashville. Headed up, so I understand, by the former chief Soundcraft tech for Soundcraft USA (was that Harmon?)

alanhyatt 25th February 2015 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miniqtone (Post 10848742)
Drool, looks fantastic just like a Trident should! I'd love a chance to drive one. What is the MSRP?
BTW Alan, CAL stands for Creation Audio Labs in Nashville. Headed up, so I understand, by the former chief Soundcraft tech for Soundcraft USA (was that Harmon?)

The 24 Input Trident is $24,999.00, but competes with the 50K competitors quite well.

OPTIONS: All VU Meterbridge, Lundahl Mic Pre Transformers, Lundahl group output Transformers, Lundahl Main and Monitor output Transformers, Fader Automation.....Up to 5 years parts and labor warranty!

Not sure who CAL is, but turbo charging a Ghost leaves you with a Ghost. As I said, if that's the console someone likes, then by all means make it go faster...but that's a lot of money for some caps and chips, and at the end of the day, it does nothing more than did before it was turbocharged...IMHO....

brianellefson 26th February 2015 12:19 AM

Alan, the ribbons really clean up the insides of those consoles. Looks tidy.

miniqtone 26th February 2015 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanhyatt (Post 10848769)
The 24 Input Trident is $24,999.00, but competes with the 50K competitors quite well.

OPTIONS: All VU Meterbridge, Lundahl Mic Pre Transformers, Lundahl group output Transformers, Lundahl Main and Monitor output Transformers, Fader Automation.....Up to 5 years parts and labor warranty!

Not sure who CAL is, but turbo charging a Ghost leaves you with a Ghost. As I said, if that's the console someone likes, then by all means make it go faster...but that's a lot of money for some caps and chips, and at the end of the day, it does nothing more than did before it was turbocharged...IMHO....

P&G faders I'll bet! Who makes the potentiometers, jacks, and switches Alan? Again I bet they are top-notch in keeping with a fine Trident desk. Man that desk looks so great. Woo Hoo! Ive had a Trident fetish for years. Im not a fan of he 24, 65, 75 Series but have wanted a fine example of a 70. Many kudos to you for keeping that Trident flag flying high.

As I mentioned in the post that you quoted, CAL is Creation Audio Labs in Nashville, headed-up by the former chief USA Soundcraft tech. I'm surprised that you are not familiar, since CAL has been around for awhile with a very good reputation. They take care of a big percentage of Nashville's console repairs/mods/restoration needs. Perhaps you they could help you out as a service center.

Their Ghost upgrades are pretty uniformly highly regarded. Here is the link to the page for that service:
http://www.creationaudiolabs.com/#!ghost/c1q51

Here's an article that details one pro's experience with this with some input from Michael Wagener:
http://www.prosoundnetwork.com/artic...console/13361#

I have no relationship with CAL, I spoke to them on one occasion 7 years ago. Just offering the OP information.

Bruno W 27th February 2015 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chainrule (Post 10845100)
is 88 Oram or toft built? or who?

Malcolm Toft did not have anything to do with the 88, or anything recently released under the Trident name.
For Malcolm's new designs, you may like to check the Ocean Audio website.
Ocean Audio

Peace
Bruno
Ocean Audio

noah90210 9th July 2015 09:28 PM

Reviving this thread because I'm interested in the series 88. Anyone using one?

270182 26th December 2015 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noah90210 (Post 11178282)
Reviving this thread because I'm interested in the series 88. Anyone using one?

Bump

Cathedral Guitar 26th December 2015 11:23 PM

My friends at Yellow Dog Studios in Wimberly, TX got a Trident 88-32 / VU earlier this year and they love it. They went from an API 1608, and found it to fit their analog workflow better, and raved about the flexibility and build quality, and it still feels/sounds like a classic Trident British-style desk. In fact, they like it so much it prompted me to order the baby 88-8-channel version for myself. I'm getting Lundahls on channels 1/2 and mix bus outs, VU meter bridge, and it should arrive next month.

Sonic Reducer 28th April 2016 02:24 PM

Hi Cathedral! Did you get your little Trident ? How do you like it ? :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathedral Guitar (Post 11569264)
My friends at Yellow Dog Studios in Wimberly, TX got a Trident 88-32 / VU earlier this year and they love it. They went from an API 1608, and found it to fit their analog workflow better, and raved about the flexibility and build quality, and it still feels/sounds like a classic Trident British-style desk. In fact, they like it so much it prompted me to order the baby 88-8-channel version for myself. I'm getting Lundahls on channels 1/2 and mix bus outs, VU meter bridge, and it should arrive next month.


Cathedral Guitar 28th April 2016 03:01 PM

I love it!! (Disclaimer: I'm a dealer for them and I got this in part to do video + audio demos of the console). For me, the big question mark going in was the preamp sound, since it was a new design coupled with the classic Trident 80 EQ -- but the preamps sound fantastic. They have a richness and warmth that make everything glow with gold. We did drums this week and A/B ing the console sound vs the live acoustic sound of the YRC kit, the recorded sound was significantly better. Also, sounds fantastic on guitar, even using dynamics on soft nylon string, there is enough gain, and it sounds great.

Sonic Reducer 28th April 2016 03:09 PM

Great ! And thanks for the reply !

It can sum/mix 16 inputs right ? In terms of workflow is it weird to have an 8 channel/8 bus console ? That's a very high bus to channel ratio :lol:

My big question mark is the summing/tone of the console!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathedral Guitar (Post 11865452)
I love it!! (Disclaimer: I'm a dealer for them and I got this in part to do video + audio demos of the console). For me, the big question mark going in was the preamp sound, since it was a new design coupled with the classic Trident 80 EQ -- but the preamps sound fantastic. They have a richness and warmth that make everything glow with gold. We did drums this week and A/B ing the console sound vs the live acoustic sound of the YRC kit, the recorded sound was significantly better. Also, sounds fantastic on guitar, even using dynamics on soft nylon string, there is enough gain, and it sounds great.


alanhyatt 28th April 2016 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonic Reducer (Post 11865470)
Great ! And thanks for the reply !

It can sum/mix 16 inputs right ? In terms of workflow is it weird to have an 8 channel/8 bus console ? That's a very high bus to channel ratio :lol:

My big question mark is the summing/tone of the console!

You are correct that on its face, an 8 input 8 Buss console might seem weird, but its flexibility, compact size, and amount of inputs available to the two buss makes it strong contender...especially because you get EQ and Aux's everywhere.

If you did not know it, the Trident 88 - 8 Channel mixes 40 inputs "all" with EQ to the two buss. So that is pretty powerful....and no one offers anything like it...

It is built in the USA, despite what some other competitor have tried to say. We welcome anyone who wants to come to Gardena, CA and watch us build it! We use local metal workers, Sterling Modular makes our wood panels and bolsters. We use all high quality steel and aluminum that is powder coated. All of the PC boards that use both through hole components in all critical audio locations, and SMT are done by Contract Manufacturers. The front end on the 88 is all discrete, and the spec and quality are as good as it gets...

All power supplies are made on the East Coast. This console is designed by Taz Bhogal, who worked fro Trident as its head design engineer from 1986 to about 1992, which by then was under the ownership of David Stocks. Taz knows how to design a Trident.

So this is designed in the UK and built in the USA. It is a heck of console.....

Cathedral Guitar 28th April 2016 04:42 PM

For me personally, having a console is like having Photoshop, in that I may only use 10% of its functionality, and am still totally happy with it -- much like the average use of human brainpower!! In theory, the Trident 88-8 has 40 ins for summing/mixing: 8x on the channels w/4x sweepable band EQs, 8x on the monitor returns w/Tilt EQ, 8x 2 on Stereo Effects Returns w/Hi Low EQ 12kHz and 80hz shelving, and 8x on Group Monitor Inputs w/Hi Low EQ 12kHz and 80hz shelving. So if you only needed 8x mic pres going in, you could sum as much as 40 channels, if needed.

Sonic Reducer 28th April 2016 05:53 PM

Thanks guys, that's good info! It`s an impressive little desk that`s for sure, especially for someone like me who`s religious about using the same preamp on all sources. The downloadable lundhal examples on the site sounds pretty good. I'm also looking forward to seeing more about the Trident 78 model as well!

lemix 10th May 2016 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathedral Guitar (Post 11865759)
For me personally, having a console is like having Photoshop, in that I may only use 10% of its functionality, and am still totally happy with it -- much like the average use of human brainpower!! In theory, the Trident 88-8 has 40 ins for summing/mixing: 8x on the channels w/4x sweepable band EQs, 8x on the monitor returns w/Tilt EQ, 8x 2 on Stereo Effects Returns w/Hi Low EQ 12kHz and 80hz shelving, and 8x on Group Monitor Inputs w/Hi Low EQ 12kHz and 80hz shelving. So if you only needed 8x mic pres going in, you could sum as much as 40 channels, if needed.

Hey Cathedral,

As I'm writing this my suggestion of buying an 88/32 is before a company board
and I'm waiting on approval ..fingers crossed.
What would my IO module layout be if;
I need to use the long throw faders to build a monitor mix and send the mic pre out to the AD converters > DAW?
That is how I need to work ( broadcast live TV ) on all 32 channels.
I currently use an AMEK Big 44 board like this.
What make are the faders ?

Thanx

Joao B. 10th May 2016 12:45 PM

The 88 surely seems nice, but it's a shame it's only 8 buss.

alanhyatt 10th May 2016 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemix (Post 11889462)
Hey Cathedral,

As I'm writing this my suggestion of buying an 88/32 is before a company board
and I'm waiting on approval ..fingers crossed.
What would my IO module layout be if;
I need to use the long throw faders to build a monitor mix and send the mic pre out to the AD converters > DAW?
That is how I need to work ( broadcast live TV ) on all 32 channels.
I currently use an AMEK Big 44 board like this.
What make are the faders ?

Thanx

The fader's we use on the Trident 88 are the top end Bourns. If you want P&G's, that can be done, but it is costly.

As for the way you want the Trident Series 88 to work, can you be more specific with us.. Do you need the mic pre to go direct out to the DAW, and at the same time have the monitor returns into the console and simultaneously create a mix on the long throw faders from your DAW?

If that is a yes, we can do that for you with a simple modification, and you would even be able to see your mic pre signal out to the DAW on the meter bridge....

lemix 10th May 2016 07:47 PM

Hi Alan,

I was trying a search on these Bourns faders without a single result .

Yes I wasn't quite specific on my intended use. My post went on late yesterday after a few glasses :facepalm:

This would be for a suggested install at one one of my clients broadcast TV studio to supply FOH audio feeds ( 20-30 mic splits ) live to the video control room. I want these on the long throw channel faders. Mixing live to picture if you will..
They need to be in my audio room monitors and on the master out meters.
Feeding a distribution amp.

At the same time I am recording to DAW for future mixing. The only thing I need there is a simple send control so I can glance at the AD converter and DAW input meters.
I do not need to hear this feed in the monitor at this moment.
Both of this paths should be post full channel EQ.
As far as I can visualize this is only possible by feeding out from the channel inserts and setting mic pre gain to my converters.
How else would it be possible ?

This is all live. On all 32 channels . Setup and soundcheck time is minimal.
There are no dual "vertical" faders in this design like in some older consoles I'm used to.

One other thing...I don't need or want to use the eight subgroups in this situation. They need to be designated for 3 other DAW operators monitoring when they edit.
And I don't want to them to touch the channel IO functions, as they will be mostly set up and leave alone.
I have full comprehensive patchbays to accommodate FOH changeovers.

Phewww..that was long, sorry.

The Trident 88_32 is going into my budget proposal this month.

Many thanx Alan kfhkh

BTW ( off topic) Is Justin your brother ?

Taz Bhogal 11th May 2016 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemix (Post 11890753)
Hi Alan,

I was trying a search on these Bourns faders without a single result .

Yes I wasn't quite specific on my intended use. My post went on late yesterday after a few glasses :facepalm:

This would be for a suggested install at one one of my clients broadcast TV studio to supply FOH audio feeds ( 20-30 mic splits ) live to the video control room. I want these on the long throw channel faders. Mixing live to picture if you will..
They need to be in my audio room monitors and on the master out meters.
Feeding a distribution amp.

At the same time I am recording to DAW for future mixing. The only thing I need there is a simple send control so I can glance at the AD converter and DAW input meters.
I do not need to hear this feed in the monitor at this moment.
Both of this paths should be post full channel EQ.
As far as I can visualize this is only possible by feeding out from the channel inserts and setting mic pre gain to my converters.
How else would it be possible ?

This is all live. On all 32 channels . Setup and soundcheck time is minimal.
There are no dual "vertical" faders in this design like in some older consoles I'm used to.

One other thing...I don't need or want to use the eight subgroups in this situation. They need to be designated for 3 other DAW operators monitoring when they edit.
And I don't want to them to touch the channel IO functions, as they will be mostly set up and leave alone.
I have full comprehensive patchbays to accommodate FOH changeovers.

Phewww..that was long, sorry.

The Trident 88_32 is going into my budget proposal this month.

Many thanx Alan kfhkh

BTW ( off topic) Is Justin your brother ?

Hi Lemix,

If I am correct on what you have been asking, then yes, the Trident 88 is very capable of doing what you request.

The Channel Mic is automatically fed to the Long throw faders via the channel Eq, and provides all the channel features with the Auxes and buss assignments. You would Assign the channels to the main L/R Mix. This mix is available on the main outputs of the console and this level can be monitored on the Main L/R meters of the console. Additionally the L/R mix is fed to the Monitor Outputs by default so you can plug into your Monitor O/Ps of the console with your distribution amp to feed your audio room monitors. (note the Monitor OP has it's own level control and additional features)

This solves the first part of your request.

To also send these mics (post eq) to your DAWs, you can do it two ways.

1) Take the inssert send output and feed it to your DAW, and make sure the channel EQ is set to PRE EQ (default) via switch on channel.

2) On the Trident 88 you can set the direct output of each channel individually via a quick module jumper setting. It can be set to Post Fader, or Insert Return. We set it for Insert Return so that you are able to send to your channel signal to a DAW/recording devices post any channel insert processing and not have it go to the mix (with the Insert not engaged via top panel switch).
Additionally, you are able to see the signal going to your DAW via the Channel Meters as these meters are set to show what is appearing on the Direct Output jacks (and via the top panel channel switch you can change the meter feed to see what is appearing on the Channel Monitor Return jacks).

The Trident 88 Manual is available on the PMI website (trident-audio.com/images/t88_pdfs/trident88_manual_v10.pdf) and the channel flow diagram shows this arrangement very well.


Hope this has helped

Phew! Now I need a drink!

lemix 11th May 2016 02:51 PM

[QUOTE=Taz Bhogal;11892206]

2) On the Trident 88 you can set the direct output of each channel individually via a quick module jumper setting. It can be set to Post Fader, or Insert Return. We set it for Insert Return so that you are able to send to your channel signal to a DAW/recording devices post any channel insert processing and not have it go to the mix (with the Insert not engaged via top panel switch).
Additionally, you are able to see the signal going to your DAW via the Channel Meters as these meters are set to show what is appearing on the Direct Output jacks (and via the top panel channel switch you can change the meter feed to see what is appearing on the Channel Monitor Return jacks).

/QUOTE]


Yes , that is exactly what I was asking.
And I much prefer using the balanced direct outs on all 32 channels .
So in this case outgoing level to DAW is controlled by mic preamp gain only
and the long throw faders have level control for the live 2 mix only.
Assigned to L-R , of course.
Is that the correct assumption ?

It looks so complicated writing about it, but in actuality is a piece of cake.
I should have asked in this way;
I need to mix live on the 100mm faders, without affecting
the set mic gain.

Thanx Taz...cheers kfhkh

burns46824 11th May 2016 05:06 PM

I have a fully-modded Ghost done by a guy who works for Creation Audio Labs in Nashville. I think the full upgrade is around $6k. Sounds amazing to my ears! Outboard preamps will (barely) beat the onboard transformerless preamps, but, besides that, I have no complaints! The headphone outputs sound great, too!

Jason rocks 11th May 2016 07:28 PM

I would love a 16 channel Trident 88 with Lundhal input transformers on all 16 channels and 8 channels with the output Lundhal transformers as well. kfhkh

lemix 11th May 2016 07:59 PM

Jason,

According to my recent exchange with PMI, they are built to order.
In a week after you place an order with payment.
Shipping would on top of that.

alanhyatt 11th May 2016 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemix (Post 11892848)
Jason,

According to my recent exchange with PMI, they are built to order.
In a week after you place an order with payment.
Shipping would on top of that.

In the UK, we have stock of 16's, 8's and 32's... We sold out of the 24's.... Some are fitted with Bar Graph meter bridges, and some are fitted with VU's. We can add transformers at our UK facility.