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ATC SCM150A vs Barefoot MM12
Old 16th January 2015
  #1
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ATC SCM150A vs Barefoot MM12

I'll keep a long story short and just ask if anyone here has any direct experience with both of these speakers.

I'm wondering which might give you more of a 'knock your socks off' impression of overall loudness and generally just be fun to listen too. I'm concerned that despite their size, the atc might not have the volume I need for the particular application at hand. Which is to blow away a few clients of mine who like to listen very loud.

Any thoughts?

-E
Old 16th January 2015
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idlabs View Post
I'll keep a long story short and just ask if anyone here has any direct experience with both of these speakers.

I'm wondering which might give you more of a 'knock your socks off' impression of overall loudness and generally just be fun to listen too. I'm concerned that despite their size, the atc might not have the volume I need for the particular application at hand. Which is to blow away a few clients of mine who like to listen very loud.

Any thoughts?

-E
150s are rated to about 117dB SPL max long term, what is your SPL target?

Brad
Old 16th January 2015
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Lunde View Post
150s are rated to about 117dB SPL max long term, what is your SPL target?

Brad
Honestly I don't know and I did see that info on the atc site but couldn't find similar on Barefoot's to compare.

Any idea what the MM12s put out?

To expand upon my situation, I have the 150s currently set up and after cranking them to just below clipping I'm not convinced it's enough for the clients in question.

Honestly, the ATC's sound freaking amazing but I've been mixing on the 25s for a cpl of years now and I'm used to near fields. With the Barefoot's being smaller, I think I can manage to shove the 25s between them whereas with the 150s being enormous, I can't do that. And though they are the same mid and tweeter, there by making the transition less drastic for me, it's still an adjustment mixing on mid fields.
Old 17th January 2015
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idlabs View Post
Honestly I don't know and I did see that info on the atc site but couldn't find similar on Barefoot's to compare.

Any idea what the MM12s put out? ....
Hi E, always great to see folks here from my hometown!

I don't publish maximum SPL numbers simply because there is no universally agreed upon, industry standard way of specifying max SPL. There are IEC standards, but it seems that few follow them. Then there's the question of how a speaker actually sounds at high levels. A max SPL spec doesn't tell you much in this regard. You really need to judge this with your own ears.

Suffice it to say, the MM12 can get very loud. It will easily hold it's own against much larger monitors - not to mention it's linearity, transparency, translation, etc.

Cheers,
Thomas
Old 17th January 2015
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barefoot View Post
Hi E, always great to see folks here from my hometown!

I don't publish maximum SPL numbers simply because there is no universally agreed upon, industry standard way of specifying max SPL. There are IEC standards, but it seems that few follow them. Then there's the question of how a speaker actually sounds at high levels. A max SPL spec doesn't tell you much in this regard. You really need to judge this with your own ears.

Suffice it to say, the MM12 can get very loud. It will easily hold it's own against much larger monitors - not to mention it's linearity, transparency, translation, etc.

Cheers,
Thomas
Hi Thomas! I had no idea you were from the Burgh! That's great!

I initially was going to go with the MM12, but I wasn't able to get my hands on them in time for the client. If you ever happen to be in Pittsburgh with a pair of them I'd love to hear them in my room (or any room for that matter!)

The ATC's are great but I'm not convinced they're exactly what I'm after for this particular application. I'll find out tomorrow when he comes in I guess...
Old 18th January 2015
  #6
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The ATC 25A does not share the same tweeter or mid with the 150ASL. The mid is similar in design but it is not the exact same driver (membrane is the same, voice coil and suspension are different to fit the shallower cabinet IIRC.) The tweeter (3rd party at the moment) is completely different though of similar specs. The 150 shares the same tweeters and midrange with the 50, 100, and 110. The 25As do voice similarly to their bigger brothers.

I've worked on 20ASL to 300ASL ATCs and the MM27 (not the MM12, though.) It would help to know what you mean by "knock your socks off", the room volume of your control room, distance from speakers to listening position, and what type of music. No one should be listening to 117 SPL at 1 meter, for instance, but if the speaker is sufficiently further back, then it's really about the level needed to excite the room. That is why people like Dolby have different standards depending on the size of the room (listening in a small control room at 85dBC verses in a large Dolby theater, both measuring the same at the listening position, is a completely different -- and ear blasting -- experience)
Old 19th January 2015
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by idlabs View Post
I'll keep a long story short and just ask if anyone here has any direct experience with both of these speakers.

I'm wondering which might give you more of a 'knock your socks off' impression of overall loudness and generally just be fun to listen too. I'm concerned that despite their size, the atc might not have the volume I need for the particular application at hand. Which is to blow away a few clients of mine who like to listen very loud.

Any thoughts?

-E
I haven't heard the ATC but I've had the MM12 for a year now. I'm not sure quite how loud you're aiming for but if you want a sense of effortless power and general ease and relaxation while cranking it then the MM12 should amply cater for your requirements. I often listen pretty damn loud in a large room in the midfield and I've never heard the MM12 show the slightest sense of strain. Nor do they compress or change character at all as you turn it up; it just gets louder and bigger. With seven drivers per side you wouldn't expect them to; the only limitation is with the subs. Without a port the drivers have to do all the work and on really heavy bass material they're working a lot harder than an equivalent ported driver. They do have two inches of travel but I'd imagine that with the prodigious bass on some recordings there would be some kind of limitation.

But I really don't find ultimate loudness level is relevant to these monitors. They just sound fantastically powerful and musical at the same time - very much like a live concert but with superb fidelity. Honestly, if your clients aren't mightily impressed on playback, they're dead.
Old 20th January 2015
  #8
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i'm sure you have your reasons but if i'm looking to crank something i'd rather drop the sbir and do a flush mounted in half space with a speaker that really booms. room dependent obviously.

not even saying go for kino****as or augspurgers - even if its something like a 4 pi speaker with sub / active crossover. heck even a nice pa speaker. i dunno, it seems like we've gone full circle on nearfields. the whole point was to minimize sbir and room issues among others. and expensive near fields at that!

sorry for the OT
Old 20th January 2015
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pentagon View Post
The ATC 25A does not share the same tweeter or mid with the 150ASL. The mid is similar in design but it is not the exact same driver (membrane is the same, voice coil and suspension are different to fit the shallower cabinet IIRC.) The tweeter (3rd party at the moment) is completely different though of similar specs. The 150 shares the same tweeters and midrange with the 50, 100, and 110. The 25As do voice similarly to their bigger brothers.

I've worked on 20ASL to 300ASL ATCs and the MM27 (not the MM12, though.) It would help to know what you mean by "knock your socks off", the room volume of your control room, distance from speakers to listening position, and what type of music. No one should be listening to 117 SPL at 1 meter, for instance, but if the speaker is sufficiently further back, then it's really about the level needed to excite the room. That is why people like Dolby have different standards depending on the size of the room (listening in a small control room at 85dBC verses in a large Dolby theater, both measuring the same at the listening position, is a completely different -- and ear blasting -- experience)
Yes, I was clarified on the mid and tweeters by the guys at Trans Audio Group via Wes Lachot who helped me design my room a cpl of years ago. They are very, very similar to my exp with the 25s though. And so far, the transition has been a breeze. I think what things are coming down to for me is getting a nice and powerful subwoofer or two in there to really move some air when things are cranked. Basically the client is a fan of turning up the mains in a few of the larger LA studios he frequents (like till the knob stops turning) and he's looking for the same feeling in my medium size room. It's going to take some tweaking with things but we're getting close.
Old 20th January 2015
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
I haven't heard the ATC but I've had the MM12 for a year now. I'm not sure quite how loud you're aiming for but if you want a sense of effortless power and general ease and relaxation while cranking it then the MM12 should amply cater for your requirements. I often listen pretty damn loud in a large room in the midfield and I've never heard the MM12 show the slightest sense of strain. Nor do they compress or change character at all as you turn it up; it just gets louder and bigger. With seven drivers per side you wouldn't expect them to; the only limitation is with the subs. Without a port the drivers have to do all the work and on really heavy bass material they're working a lot harder than an equivalent ported driver. They do have two inches of travel but I'd imagine that with the prodigious bass on some recordings there would be some kind of limitation.

But I really don't find ultimate loudness level is relevant to these monitors. They just sound fantastically powerful and musical at the same time - very much like a live concert but with superb fidelity. Honestly, if your clients aren't mightily impressed on playback, they're dead.
Well, it seems like the ATC's are staying put for now, but man I'd love to hear the MM12's one of these days. Seem like a really well thought out and unique speaker with power to spare. And I love the relatively small footprint.
Old 20th January 2015
  #11
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Yes you should probably get subs. The mm12s is a 4-way, so it´s equivalent to something like 25s plus subs.

One aspect to possibly consider is flush mounting. Tried experimental "soft" and "hard" mounts, with the sealed scm25s and also kh310. And the result was very impressive in terms "feeling" of a big soundstage that filled the room, and extended low end headroom. Other acoustical problems in the room were evident though.

Planning to try it with the new 20s, when time allows. As the 20asl somehow is still my favourite. Will try morel UW 12"-based subs with those and report back.

Among other DIY subs, there´s this from dayton in the vein of mm12 subs; Dayton Audio RS1202K 1000 Watt Dual 12" Subwoofer Kit By the looks, the dayton drivers could possibly be what´s used in the Guzuaski monitors?

Let us know your findings however it ends up
Old 22nd January 2015
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barefoot View Post
Hi E, always great to see folks here from my hometown!

I don't publish maximum SPL numbers simply because there is no universally agreed upon, industry standard way of specifying max SPL. There are IEC standards, but it seems that few follow them. Then there's the question of how a speaker actually sounds at high levels. A max SPL spec doesn't tell you much in this regard. You really need to judge this with your own ears.

Suffice it to say, the MM12 can get very loud. It will easily hold it's own against much larger monitors - not to mention it's linearity, transparency, translation, etc.

Cheers,
Thomas
I'm also from Pittsburgh, an East ender. Is Barefoot a Pittsburgh based company?
Old 22nd January 2015
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonMiller View Post
I'm also from Pittsburgh, an East ender. Is Barefoot a Pittsburgh based company?
No, I was living in San Francisco when I started Barefoot Sound. Now we're in Portland Oregon. [deleted by mod]

Last edited by [email protected]; 22nd January 2015 at 02:55 PM.. Reason: Let's keep it on topic please
Old 22nd January 2015
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barefoot View Post
No, I was living in San Francisco when I started Barefoot Sound. Now we're in Portland Oregon. [deleted by mod]
Very cool. A few Tape Op contributors started a studio out that way 10 years or so ago. TreeLady Studios. Nice guys, great studio. I head out that way for Pizza at a divey joint known as Vincent's.

I live near the Zoo. Portland is very nice.
Old 22nd January 2015
  #15
We have ATC SCM110ASL in one room and Barefoot MM27 in another. I certainly can't listen to either one running at full throttle. YMMV I guess.
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