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The love hate relationship with Genelec
Old 15th January 2015
  #1
The love hate relationship with Genelec

I had a question that, i understand, is highly subjective. I've been on the search for a new pair of monitors in the $2500/pr bracket. I've been mixing on some CMS 65s and there is no doubt that they are good monitors. I find they aren't giving me the whole picture, or as much of a picture as i need.

My search kind of narrowed down to the Unity Rocks and the Gene 8040s. I've never heard either monitor and unfortunately there isn't anywhere to test out either brand near me so of course the first step is to look here to see what the general consensus is about the monitors.

When you read comments and reviews about most monitors in a certain price range, usually there is a certain amount of uniformity in the overall reaction... like with Focal, you read the forum and the general consensus is they are great monitors, some people don't like them as much or don't find then as flat as x, or as detailed as y, but you see very little of the word "hate" used with the brand. Same goes for many of the popular brands talked about on the forum... but man when you bring up Genelec, the field shifts to a gaping polarization. People either swear by them or can't stand them. There seems to be very little middle ground. Even pro reviews i've read (on the 8000 series) have very neutral conclusion. Like, " if you like the Genelec sound then you'll like these." So whats the deal? What is Genelec doing that folks either live by or can't stand? I realize they aren't as expensive as Barefoots or such, but for the price (double the CMS series that I'm using,) I would expect that they would be that much more detailed and "mixable"?

SO that's the question... what's the "thing" with Genelecs that swing people so far left or right? In the way that the old NS10s sounded like crap, so if you could get a good mix on them, the mix sounded good everywhere. Is it something like that? I realize Genelec did some new things sonically with the 8000 series that are different from the 1000 series, but i don't have a baseline to appreciate the differences. I'd like some feedback from current Gene users and former gene users. Obviously I'm trying to get a sense of their characteristics compared to other brands that seem to have a more unified approval rating on the forums before i go down the path of having some shipped in to test, or rent or what have you.
Old 15th January 2015
  #2
The 8000 series have a low/low mid 'vagueness'(I cant think of a better word) that just never worked for me.
Old 16th January 2015
  #3
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IanBSC's Avatar
I haven't used the Genelecs for a while. They sounded awesome when I mixed on them, and then I walked home with a dull sounding mix. Kind of the opposite of NS10s. My experience was that they were too euphonic.
Old 16th January 2015
  #4
I'm VERY used to 1030s/1031s/1032 Genelecs. I've not used the 8000 series.

The Rocks - I did one 5-day session on them, and really enjoyed it. I'd seriously consider them if I was in the market for some smaller nearfields. To my ears and memory, the had the transient style of an NS10 with better bass extension.

NS10s - it's not to do with "sounding crap", it's to do with transient response. They don't have massive bass extension, so it's easier to judge bass/kick balance, and other balances in general. You really need some way of checking extreme highs and lows, but NS10s let you focus on the midrange balance without impressing you with massive bass or sweet top end. So yes..they do sound kinda unimpressive and make you work for a good mix, but at the same time it's not because they sound "crap" and if it sounds good there, it'll sound good anywhere.
Old 16th January 2015
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
I'm VERY used to 1030s/1031s/1032 Genelecs. I've not used the 8000 series.
its interesting. most of the comments I've read are about the 1030s... not too many folks commenting on the 8000 series online in general.

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
NS10s - it's not to do with "sounding crap", it's to do with transient response. They don't have massive bass extension, so it's easier to judge bass/kick balance, and other balances in general. You really need some way of checking extreme highs and lows, but NS10s let you focus on the midrange balance without impressing you with massive bass or sweet top end. So yes..they do sound kinda unimpressive and make you work for a good mix, but at the same time it's not because they sound "crap" and if it sounds good there, it'll sound good anywhere.
oh yeah, i know. they are very flat speakers. I actually worked with some very briefly. Actually, my only gripe with them wasn't the low end response it was the lack of air information, which you indicated. I use that word "crap" loosely to describe the overall reaction to NS10s in general conversation.
Old 16th January 2015
  #6
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gainreduction's Avatar
 

Genelecs are probably manufactured and checked to measure flat in a proper anechoic chamber. That's not a realworld scenario even in a good room.

That's why there are switches on the back to optimize them to your room. And Genelec do encourage the users to use them!
Old 16th January 2015
  #7
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ellmanl's Avatar
 

I use 8040s as a second set, but I prefer to work on my ProAc's. I trust my EQ and level choices more. The Genelecs have more low end extension, I use them like mains. But they stay off until I'm well into a mix. In general I do like them.
Old 16th January 2015
  #8
ugh... im not getting the sense that these are the goto choice for an upgrade. Of course its all subjective and heavily reliant on the room, which mine like most isn't perfect by any means. I will of course still test them out to see what i think, but my initial impressions based on what I'm reading is that they are nice to listen to but you'd be hard pressed to mix on them. and from what i understand the 8000s are a slightly different beast than the 1029s/1030s. Well we shall see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gainreduction View Post
Genelecs are probably manufactured and checked to measure flat in a proper anechoic chamber. That's not a realworld scenario even in a good room.

That's why there are switches on the back to optimize them to your room. And Genelec do encourage the users to use them!
yeah thats my other question, those that have used the 8040s, have they been trying to use them flat or have they adjusted dip switches to try to accommodate their room?

Last edited by terraamb01; 16th January 2015 at 05:30 PM..
Old 16th January 2015
  #9
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voodoo4u's Avatar
I've mixed for years on both 1031's and then 8050's. There's just something about the 8050's that leaves me unsure of the mixing choices I make. [email protected] mentioned it and IanBSC as well. It's almost as if the highs and low/lowmids are hyperextended, like they're larger than life. If I could, I'd go back to my old 1031's. To me, they sounded more organic and natural. I'd recommend them over the 8000 series and I'd choose the 1031's over anything else on the market including Focals.
Old 16th January 2015
  #10
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aidyhall's Avatar
And now for a totally different response! I use 8050's everyday, and I mix music for a living. They sound very flat to me, and translate very well to other speakers. The old 1031's had a hyped, slightly spitty top end that I never liked, but the new 8050's are much more natural. My second pair of speakers is Avantone MixCubes, and I probably spend about as much time on those as I do the Genelecs. My third reference are Focal CMS40's. Even though I love the Genelecs, and do all of my early mix stage on them, EQ'ing and compressing, I do a lot of final detail fader rides on the Avantones, which have no low end and no top end, so that you just concentrate on the balance of the mix. I used to use a set of NS10's for a similar purpose.

At this quality level, they are all going to be relatively flat and well-designed speakers, so it is largely a matter of preference, and what works for you in your room. I have worked with Focal Twin 6's and SM9's in other studios recently, and they were excellent speakers. A producer that I mixed an album for about 2 years ago actually brought his CMS65's into my studio to use, and they were really good speakers. Slightly more "hifi" than the 8050's, more hyped in the high end, and slightly scooped in the low mids. I preferred the more natural presentation of the 8050's, but then, they are the speakers that I was used to!

What are you missing from the CMS65's? If it's low end, then the 8040's aren't going to be very different. You might want to consider a larger woofer, an 8" driver, or if you like the sound of the Focal tweeter, then something larger like the Twin 6's or SM9 from them. In any case, I would highly recommend trying out different speakers in your own room. Most pro-audio dealers have "loan" pairs that you can have for a couple of days. Speakers are so individual. What works for you may be different than what your friend uses.
Old 16th January 2015
  #11
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bigbaby987's Avatar
The 8000 series sucks. I used 1000 series (1031 and 1030) for 15 years. I checked out the 8000 series to continue the Gennie upgrade path and they sucked big time. Mid range issues and bottom end vagueness. Maybe anphion one15's. Seems to be in your price range.
Old 16th January 2015
  #12
Quote:
Originally Posted by aidyhall View Post
What are you missing from the CMS65's? If it's low end, then the 8040's aren't going to be very different. You might want to consider a larger woofer, an 8" driver, or if you like the sound of the Focal tweeter, then something larger like the Twin 6's or SM9 from them. In any case, I would highly recommend trying out different speakers in your own room. Most pro-audio dealers have "loan" pairs that you can have for a couple of days. Speakers are so individual. What works for you may be different than what your friend uses.
well its nice to hear that someone is using them to mix on. The 65s are great monitors. very detailed... but i seem to be missing some of the mids definition. when i listen to my mixes on other platforms, it seems like they are "under developed" in the lie 750 to 1400kHz range and a little hyped in the upper mids and air bands. But in the studio things sound pretty full and rich.

Its been suggested that the 8040s have a more forward sounding tweeter and that might help with my mid freq issue.

And no, i have no issue with bass response. I had a pair of 8 inch woofers in my last monitor set and it was way too much for my room. I have a sub if i need to boost things, but I've heard the Genes have a lot of bass response, so I'm going to try them with and without the sub.
Old 16th January 2015
  #13
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....the three records i'm absolutely not happy with....

....are the three records mixed on genelecs....really enjoyed mixing....really hated the results afterwards....

....but 8" two way speakers are all pretty much the same, i'm afraid....

get real main monitors....or real near fields....

nothing inbetween.....

never found a two way system with bigger membranes than 7" which translates the essential mids for real....

i found my final destination in near field monitoring.....the neumann kh 120 is fun and pushed me to a complete new level of what you hear is what you get....

not one bad surprise ever since...
Old 16th January 2015
  #14
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I dont have a love hate relationship with them...I HATE THEM...THEY LIE!!!!

ej
Old 16th January 2015
  #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by reeloy View Post
get real main monitors....or real near fields....
and what in your mind constitutes a "real" near field? the neumann kh 120? unfortunately i don't have the physical space to use mid / far field monitors. Im sort of stuck in the near field world.
Old 16th January 2015
  #16
Quote:
Originally Posted by ejsongs View Post
I dont have a love hate relationship with them...I HATE THEM...THEY LIE!!!!

ej
This kind of goes back to my original question. What is it about these monitors that is so radically different from most brands that people just go ape **** one way or the other? You look at any other popular brand and people of course have their opinions about them, but you don't see the word HATE used much. More like "those are good, but i prefer X because..."
Old 17th January 2015
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ejsongs View Post
I dont have a love hate relationship with them...I HATE THEM...THEY LIE!!!!

ej
Me too!!

My problem has been the high's... I find my mixes turned out dull because the speakers led me to believe the songs were super bright.... especially the air.

Of course personal preference, but I like to mix without trying to fool the speakers... with the NS10s, focal cms 40 and SM9's... it's the right balance for me.
Old 17th January 2015
  #18
its not about speakers its about acoustics and having good ROom
Old 17th January 2015
  #19
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JamesClark1991's Avatar
My experience with the Genelec 8000 series leads me to the conclusion that although they are definitely revealing speakers they make everything sound 'forward', which to my ears is translated as sounding 'good', I wouldn't want to rely on them as my only monitoring source (and I don't!). When compared, my KRK VXTs sound far more 'receded' which I think is a more realistic critic as it's less pleasing from the get-go whilst remaining accurate. The Genelecs also seem to raise tail volumes when switching from quiet to loud sounds, almost as if slightly compressing. A bit too flumph in the low mids for my personal preference as well, but that might just be me.

It sounds like I'm knocking the Genelecs here but they are in fact really good monitors, I'd love a pair of 8050s!
Old 17th January 2015
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manman View Post
its not about speakers its about acoustics and having good ROom
Nonsense
Old 17th January 2015
  #21
Quote:
Originally Posted by manman View Post
its not about speakers its about acoustics and having good ROom
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightydood View Post
Nonsense
Not the whole truth, but certainly not "nonsense".

If you've got a great room, whilst you perhaps *should* be investing in the best speakers you can afford, your average speakers will perform to their best - meaning you can hopefully "learn" their deficiencies.

If you have a poor room, the best speakers in the world won't make up for it - you'd be wasting your money.

Room first - THEN speakers.

(he says, sitting in front of a pair of 1030s in a spare bedroom - what the hell, I'm only editing and using headphones anyway!).
Old 17th January 2015
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Not the whole truth, but certainly not "nonsense".

If you've got a great room, whilst you perhaps *should* be investing in the best speakers you can afford, your average speakers will perform to their best - meaning you can hopefully "learn" their deficiencies.

If you have a poor room, the best speakers in the world won't make up for it - you'd be wasting your money.

Room first - THEN speakers.

(he says, sitting in front of a pair of 1030s in a spare bedroom - what the hell, I'm only editing and using headphones anyway!).
manman's reply implies that speakers make NO difference if you have a good room... which is nonsense (imho)! The thread is about what makes people love or hate genelecs... and his reply is to tell us not to worry about speakers... worry about the room and acoustics. Again... Nonsense!!
Old 17th January 2015
  #23
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BillSimpkins's Avatar
The problem I had with Genelecs (used them for over 10 years) was that they sounded too good. Take the mix home and there may be problems.
I love the Genelecs for simply listening to music.
Old 17th January 2015
  #24
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightydood View Post
manman's reply implies that speakers make NO difference if you have a good room... which is nonsense (imho)! The thread is about what makes people love or hate genelecs... and his reply is to tell us not to worry about speakers... worry about the room and acoustics. Again... Nonsense!!
Again - not 100% nonsense! These forums work better if we don't write off someone else's opinion without giving an alternative view...one word condescending posts (with or without facepalms) don't help.

As I said - I don't agree with that implication, and I agree with you that of course the speakers make a difference.

At the same time, the OP makes no mention of his space. His monitors MAY be underperforming in his room. He might not NEED new monitors. So it is a relevant comment.
Old 17th January 2015
  #25
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Has anyone compared the 8040 to Focal Solo6?
Old 17th January 2015
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillSimpkins View Post
The problem I had with Genelecs (used them for over 10 years) was that they sounded too good. Take the mix home and there may be problems.
I love the Genelecs for simply listening to music.
exactly!!!!

ej
Old 17th January 2015
  #27
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I've owned a pair for 10 years and always liked them. I do remember them being very crisp on first hearing for sure. But once I settled in with them I found it easy to mix on them for a variety of applications and the translations to be true.
Old 17th January 2015
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
Again - not 100% nonsense! These forums work better if we don't write off someone else's opinion without giving an alternative view...one word condescending posts (with or without facepalms) don't help.
I thought his reply to a thread about asking people's opinion on a set of speakers with a single sentence telling us that this thread is basically irrelevant was very condescending... no?

Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
As I said - I don't agree with that implication, and I agree with you that of course the speakers make a difference.

At the same time, the OP makes no mention of his space. His monitors MAY be underperforming in his room. He might not NEED new monitors. So it is a relevant comment.
The OP isn't asking about advice about rooms or whether he should or should not need new speaker... but simply what people thought about Genelecs...and many people work in different studios and bring speakers with them. So I disagree... that comment was irrelevant.
Old 17th January 2015
  #29
Quote:
Originally Posted by mightydood View Post
I thought his reply to a thread about asking people's opinion on a set of speakers with a single sentence telling us that this thread is basically irrelevant was very condescending... no?



The OP isn't asking about advice about rooms or whether he should or should not need new speaker... but simply what people thought about Genelecs...and many people work in different studios and bring speakers with them. So I disagree... that comment was irrelevant.
As you wish - I think further discussion along these lines is detrimental to the thread.

As a mod I stand by my comment that one word condescending replies cause more problems than they are worth.
Old 17th January 2015
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psycho_monkey View Post
As you wish - I think further discussion along these lines is detrimental to the thread.

As a mod I stand by my comment that one word condescending replies cause more problems than they are worth.
Lol.. You're prob right!

As a mod feel free to delete my condescending reply, as well as his!
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