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Great River MixMaster 20 vs. Rupert Neve Designs 5060 Centerpiece Summing Mixers
Old 19th June 2017
  #31
I don't but after owning it for a couple years I can say it is pretty dramatic from itb. Wonderful sounding unit. I didn't like switching back and forth from using the pres in tracking and in my summing setup. Really sucked when I was using those four channels in my mix and then wanting to track through them. Have to reroute channels then route them back after.

But sound quality was stellar
Old 19th June 2017
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dudleys100 View Post
I don't but after owning it for a couple years I can say it is pretty dramatic from itb. Wonderful sounding unit. I didn't like switching back and forth from using the pres in tracking and in my summing setup. Really sucked when I was using those four channels in my mix and then wanting to track through them. Have to reroute channels then route them back after.

But sound quality was stellar
When I had my shadow hills equinox combined with my shadow hills mastering compressor, the sound was pretty different from ITB too but I felt like the equinox was not only adding to the sound, it was also taking away some stuff from the sound. It shrank the top to bottom imaging and the added low end was often in the wrong region now matter which transfo I used.
I still use the mastering comp but with the sigma now, its much better.
Did you encounter that sort of feeling with the mix master 20 with all its transformers ?
Old 19th June 2017
  #33
No. I felt like the low end extended and thickened up in the right places. The high end became a touch more present. In the channels that were going through the preamps you could hear a bit of that transformer grind, but that's exactly why you use them I felt like the sonic differences were pretty much always in the right places.

My trident 80b I use now is quite different than the great river. The trident has a tighter low end and is more punchy. The highs also gain presence but are little harsher than the great river. The trident is more colored and heavy handed than the great river, but the great river was more 3D and deeper sounding. It had less punch but more weight if that makes sense. Seemed deeper in where the weight sat but still kept it controlled
Old 20th June 2017
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dudleys100 View Post
No. I felt like the low end extended and thickened up in the right places. The high end became a touch more present. In the channels that were going through the preamps you could hear a bit of that transformer grind, but that's exactly why you use them I felt like the sonic differences were pretty much always in the right places.

My trident 80b I use now is quite different than the great river. The trident has a tighter low end and is more punchy. The highs also gain presence but are little harsher than the great river. The trident is more colored and heavy handed than the great river, but the great river was more 3D and deeper sounding. It had less punch but more weight if that makes sense. Seemed deeper in where the weight sat but still kept it controlled
That seems pretty nice, I'll see if I can get my hands on one.
In the meantime if anybody else want to chime in I'm all ears!
Old 20th June 2017
  #35
I use a 5060 and absolutely love it. It can be clean or colored depending on how you hit it, and the inserts on the first 4 stereo pairs make it really easy to do parallel compression. I just take the insert sends of those 4 pairs into outboard compressors and return the compressors on the other stereo returns. Also has the silk and a pre-fader insert on the master fader. All really useful features that make it feel much more like using a console.
Old 20th June 2017
  #36
Haven't used one but I bet it's great. I have an mbp and everything goes through it
Old 20th June 2017
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EleKtriKaz View Post
I use a 5060 and absolutely love it. It can be clean or colored depending on how you hit it, and the inserts on the first 4 stereo pairs make it really easy to do parallel compression. I just take the insert sends of those 4 pairs into outboard compressors and return the compressors on the other stereo returns. Also has the silk and a pre-fader insert on the master fader. All really useful features that make it feel much more like using a console.
How do you like the faders on it? Do you find they make recall more difficult?
Old 20th June 2017
  #38
I think if I was tracking with it I would love using the faders. Since I'm mixing, I toned them out and then taped them down so they never move. I have a session saved with test tones so that I can make sure my parallel chains are accurate to within .1dB. It works great. I just notate Mixbus settings in the comments on my print track. All the other outboard never moves. Recalls are as quick as opening a pro tools session.
Old 21st June 2017
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EleKtriKaz View Post
I think if I was tracking with it I would love using the faders. Since I'm mixing, I toned them out and then taped them down so they never move. I have a session saved with test tones so that I can make sure my parallel chains are accurate to within .1dB. It works great. I just notate Mixbus settings in the comments on my print track. All the other outboard never moves. Recalls are as quick as opening a pro tools session.
Thanks for your reply.
I would probably end up doing the same kind of thing if I got one since I feel faders can be tricky to recall perfectly.

Do you feel the need to change the silk setting from one mix to another?
Old 21st June 2017
  #40
I do change the silk setting somewhat regularly. Usually on the red setting, which is the brighter mode. Just varying the amount depending on the song. It's most often at about 9 o'clock, which is not much of the effect. A little goes a long way.
Old 21st June 2017
  #41
Both are great units but I prefer the Rupert Neve 5060 with its faders, and silk button controls.
Old 22nd June 2017
  #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Bucci View Post
Both are great units but I prefer the Rupert Neve 5060 with its faders, and silk button controls.
could easily add Faders to a Mix Master 20 with a Speck via Fader 10, or 16 channel unit.
Old 22nd June 2017
  #43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
could easily add Faders to a Mix Master 20 with a Speck via Fader 10, or 16 channel unit.
True but I just prefer the Ruper Neve sound with his latest equipment.
Old 22nd June 2017
  #44
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Bucci View Post
True but I just prefer the Ruper Neve sound with his latest equipment.
Have you compared them directly?
Old 22nd June 2017
  #45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
Have you compared them directly?
I have heard both.....several times. They are both great pieces and it's really a personal preference which one you like better sound wise. Regarding workflow wise the Neve is a lot better as it's right in front of you on your desk as you sit between your monitors which keeps you in your sweet spot.
Old 22nd June 2017
  #46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Bucci View Post
I have heard both.....several times. They are both great pieces and it's really a personal preference which one you like better sound wise. Regarding workflow wise the Neve is a lot better as it's right in front of you on your desk as you sit between your monitors which keeps you in your sweet spot.
Cool....I was curious how you derived your opinion. Usually, making records with this stuff is the best way to find out. FWIW, most everyone puts the MM20 directly in the center of their sweet spot.
Old 23rd June 2017
  #47
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I decided to order the MM20. I hope it's gonna be the last summing box/mixer I buy!
Old 24th June 2017
  #48
It's pretty amazing. You certainly won't need to ever buy another that's for sure
Old 6th September 2017
  #49
Quote:
Originally Posted by matskull View Post
I decided to order the MM20. I hope it's gonna be the last summing box/mixer I buy!
How are you liking it?
Old 6th September 2017
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelfarr View Post
How are you liking it?
It's a very nice unit. The knobs and fader are a bit sensitive so recall with tone is necessary but it's not that much of an issue.

I feel like the summing itself doesn't really sound that big and wide, my SSL sigma had more of a sound to it imo, but when you start adding the inserts the sound gets bigger and bigger.
The insert points really do have a nice sound to them even with no gear inserted and when used with gear the impedance seem to really interact in a nice way with the gear connected to it, I don't know why but those inserts sound a lot better than a Protools HW insert.

The VUs are fantastics, really nice to have.
Preamps are super solid, way better than I expected, they have that sound, similar to a neve but punchier in a certain way.

Customer service is also top notch, even just opening the box when it arrived impressed me, the packaging was the best I've ever seen, that says a lot about the built quality.
Old 7th September 2017
  #51
Quote:
Originally Posted by matskull View Post
It's a very nice unit. The knobs and fader are a bit sensitive so recall with tone is necessary but it's not that much of an issue.

I feel like the summing itself doesn't really sound that big and wide, my SSL sigma had more of a sound to it imo.
Are you saying you prefer the sigma sound and width? People are talking like this vs ITB or vs some other less expensive summing boxes is a pretty dramatic shift. Less so than they're saying or less than you thought?
Old 7th September 2017
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelfarr View Post
Are you saying you prefer the sigma sound and width? People are talking like this vs ITB or vs some other less expensive summing boxes is a pretty dramatic shift. Less so than they're saying or less than you thought?
It's hard to explain and in the end it's all a matter of personal preference.

I red in other thread that the sigma sounded like a plastic toy compared to the MM20 and I simply don't agree with that.
The sigma seems wider to me, great for rock, has a low mid bump and some high end softening. The sigma imo had more of a sound to it but that wasn't always a good thing, sometimes yes, sometimes no.

The MM20 is more subtle to my ears, with the music I work on, but when used with all of its inserts functionality it has a really lush and expensive sound to it.
The midrange gets pushed back just a little, the sound gets a bit smoother and more open, it's deep but never gets muddy like the ssl could and like the equinox I had before.
It adds a layer of quality to the sound without ever getting in the way like the other summing I had did.

In all honesty though, if you don't have hardware to use in the inserts and don't need the other features the MM20 has to offer like the preamps and VUs, I personally don't think the summing only is worth the price of admission, it's a pretty subtle effect by its own. When I A/B the summing only of the MM20 to the ITB mix the differences I hear are extremely subtle if I'm being honest with myself. Different yes but 8K $ better maybe not.

If on the other hand you have some hardware to integrate with it and plan on using the preamps I thinks it is well worth the price. Everything comes together really nicely through the MM20, like with a nice console.
As I said the insert point on that thing are very special, they make everything I own sound amazing, I don't know why but it's really special.
I haven't had a chance to test the aux sends because of the way my setup is but I'm sure they sound stellar as well.

Hope that helps!
Old 7th September 2017
  #53
Quote:
Originally Posted by matskull View Post

Hope that helps!
It does, thank you! I am currently running an apollo quad d-box combo and I remember people saying how great the summing was on the d-box... I was let down after I heard it. Everything gets talked about here like there are night and day differences all the time. Then when you actually get the gear it's usually a let down...yet, I keep hoping it will be true. Someone tell me it's true with the mm20! I'm really close to dropping some coin on a Symphony 16 and the mm20... but someone tell me if I'm not going to be greatly pleased with this change in setup. It's a a ton of cash if I'm only going to be let down in the end?!
Old 7th September 2017
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Mixwell View Post
could easily add Faders to a Mix Master 20 with a Speck via Fader 10, or 16 channel unit.
How does this work? I could really use faders and pans for my MM20.
Old 7th September 2017
  #55
Quote:
Originally Posted by IanBSC View Post
How does this work? I could really use faders and pans for my MM20.
The Faders have i/o, you plug them in. The panning is only featured on the mix units. It wont add panners. The mm20 already has panners and level controls. If you choose to submix to Stereo with the Speck Via Fader + Mix, than I suppose it will "add" rotary pan, but only on the Speck Mixer output.

Last edited by Doc Mixwell; 7th September 2017 at 01:32 PM..
Old 7th September 2017
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joelfarr View Post
It does, thank you! I am currently running an apollo quad d-box combo and I remember people saying how great the summing was on the d-box... I was let down after I heard it. Everything gets talked about here like there are night and day differences all the time. Then when you actually get the gear it's usually a let down...yet, I keep hoping it will be true. Someone tell me it's true with the mm20! I'm really close to dropping some coin on a Symphony 16 and the mm20... but someone tell me if I'm not going to be greatly pleased with this change in setup. It's a a ton of cash if I'm only going to be let down in the end?!
Since you're in the States it should be easy enough for you to get a demo unit at your studio for a couple days.
IMO it is not a night and day difference, it's all the little bits that add up and it's as a whole that the MM20 is great
I really recommend you do that.

You should ask Doc here for a demo.
Old 7th September 2017
  #57
Quote:
Originally Posted by matskull View Post
Since you're in the States it should be easy enough for you to get a demo unit at your studio for a couple days.
IMO it is not a night and day difference, it's all the little bits that add up and it's as a whole that the MM20 is great
I really recommend you do that.

You should ask Doc here for a demo.
That'd be great, but it seems like something very hard to demo without having and extra patch bay and 7 dsub cables just laying around. In other words, I think to really test it out I'd want all the features at the ready, with another 96 point bay especially to see how it integrates with my outboard and the rest of my studio. Somehow I'd love to hear the 5060 side by side with it...
Old 7th September 2017
  #58
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Testing summing is not a few days thing in my opinion unless you have everything wired to theconfig and ready to plug and mix,
routing alone something's takes some thought over time as you work with it and react to the oftentimes subtle diffences
Just a thought

I have had and do have summing mixers
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