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Have solid preamps, need 24 ch of high quality conversion Audio Interfaces
Old 25th December 2014
  #121
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post

Anyhow, apologies for the heated debate and merry Christmas gents.
Likewise and Merry Christmas to you too.
Old 25th December 2014
  #122
Gear Maniac
 
TheMightyReel's Avatar
Likewise. Alls well that ends well. :-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
Likewise and Merry Christmas to you too.
Old 27th December 2014
  #123
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nms View Post
We are all incompetent at one thing or another, one time or another. I don't enjoy having to mention those details and would have loved to support and recommend his stuff, but it was what it was
Yes, but you did give another professional a negative PUBLIC critique. And that just "is what it is" right?

So in fairness, let's discuss your past incompetencies, but first we must reveal the name that you run your business under and review examples of the services you offer... so that we can even up the honest critiquing.

What do you say Champ??

A Very Merry Christmas/Happy NewYear to You and Yours!!!!
Old 27th December 2014
  #124
Lives for gear
 
ionian's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by PKirrk View Post
What do you say Champ??
I like this part! Is this where he now ends his post calling you "Ace", then you call him, "Sport", then he calls you, "Pal", and you call him "Chief" and so on and the first one to run out of frat nicknames loses?

This is where it gets fun!

I'm running to get the keg....
Old 27th December 2014
  #125
Gear Guru
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ionian View Post
I like this part! Is this where he now ends his post calling you "Ace", then you call him, "Sport", then he calls you, "Pal", and you call him "Chief" and so on and the first one to run out of frat nicknames loses?

This is where it gets fun!

I'm running to get the keg....
Old 28th December 2014
  #126
Gear Maniac
 

Hi guys iam trying to crack the same nut as the OP (affordable high channel count ITB although iam more concerned with INs than OUTs)... currently have 16in/16out (Lynx PCI with Apogee AD16x and DA16x) and i would like to add another 24 or 32 channels of INPUT to have total 40 or 48 channels of A/D in the box... i checked some of the converters mentioned here... a stupid question but do you think its viable to quickly sort converters by $$$ per channel of conversion ? the logic behind is that in the pro-summer and small/home studio market (under 3-5K) the manufacturers must be very competitive with end user prices and among each other... so unless you deal with high-end boutique converters with huge margin (5K+) the price/channel is a realistic albeit rough estimate of product range... i dont have a chance to listen to the converters locally, so i must find some key to sort them out...

MOTU 828mk3 Hybrid
749$ = 16ch = 47$ / channel
MOTU 24Ai
995$ = 24ch = 41$ / channel
Antelope Audio Orion 32
2795$ = 64ch = 44$ / channel
Apogee AD-16X (ebay average price)
1100$ = 16ch = 69$ / channel

Here is my thinking looking at the table... brand new Antelope Audio Orion 32 is comparable to MOTU (around 45$ per channel in a highly competitive industry) with Apogee still being regarded by the after-market prices on ebay as much better deal... iam a little worried about the general reputation of MOTU converters as being OK at best and i would like to avoid MOTU if i can - i certainly wouldnt want to invest into 24 or 32 channels of MOTU converters... i dont know much about Antelope but they are generally hyped as very good deal (including this very thread) and 32in/32out is sure a great upgrade to my setup but how come they are so cheap (same price per channel as the consumer MOTU products) its stirrs my suspision big time... either Antelope quality is more hype and wishfull thinking by owners than reality and in fact they are in the same ballpark as MOTU as the price would suggest or these guys are giving away an incredible bargain... really ? common... in such a competitive technology market as pro audio, how much can one converter outperform another one in the exact same price range... Antelope price and "quality hype" just seems to be too good to be true when you do a simple price math...

The Apogee seems to be in a different ballpark indeed (mind these are second-hand used prices for Apogee) however as much as i would love to buy 2 Apogee AD16x (32 channels of INPUT) i dont see any way how to hook all the converters to my aging PC

id love to continue growing with Apogee but i would have:

Apogee AD16x --- Lynx AES 16 #1
Apogee DA16x --- Lynx AES 16 #1

Apogee AD16x --- Lynx AES 16 #2
Apogee AD16x --- ?

any suggestions ? am i missing something or is the above generally more or less true observation of reality between MOTU, Antelope Orion and Apogee AD16x

cheers i hope i wont be hushed and called an amateur because i didnt listen to all the converters side-by-side and didnt do exact measurings... iam just an average musician guy trying to figure out things on my own without access to demo equipment...

EDIT>iam reading this thread through again to soke up all the great info tidbits and iam intrigued by the RME HDSPe RayDat route... i never used ADAT before for anything (ADAT virgin)... but for a newcomer it looks like just the kind of missing puzzle piece in my (and maybe OPs) conundrum... could i upgrade my aging PC system to look like this ? my working resolution is 44.1khz...

Apogee AD16x --- PCI Lynx AES 16 #1 (AES IN)
Apogee DA16x --- PCI Lynx AES 16 #1 (AES OUT)

Apogee AD16x --- PCIe RME HDSPe RayDat #1 (ADAT IN 1-8 + ADAT IN 8-16)
Apogee AD16x --- PCIe RME HDSPe RayDat #1 (ADAT IN 16-24 + ADAT IN 24-32)

voila 48 channels IN, 16 channels OUT, a combination of AES and ADAT wiring running in the box via
1xPCI Lynx AES 16 (AES wiring, 16 in / 16 out)
1xPCIe RME HDSPe RayDat (ADAT wiring, 32 in)

all award-winning Apogee quality...

any obvious nonsense in this setup ? iam new to ADAT so i would be supprised if things would be so ideal...
Old 28th December 2014
  #127
Lives for gear
 

It's not easy to find dealers willing to allow take home trials of converters. You generally have to find a large online store with a default no questions return period, and even then you need a large outlay so you can have at least three different units to compare.

So ultimately, it seems sensible to continue down the Apogee path. I'm not sure if I'm reading things correctly, but you know AES is only stereo per cable, right? ADAT is 8 mono channels per cable and MADI is 64. Each dependent on the sample rate. AES has a higher bandwidth wiring usually just called "two wire" or AES 192.

A question is how urgent is the upgrade? I think Lynx is likely to bust out something new soon. Other manufacturers are also being forced to get with the times. It could be an opportunity to sell and start afresh with more modern technology. Just an alternative stance to consider, if viable.
Old 29th December 2014
  #128
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zigziglar View Post
It's not easy to find dealers willing to allow take home trials of converters. You generally have to find a large online store with a default no questions return period, and even then you need a large outlay so you can have at least three different units to compare.
Or you deal with pro dealers who routinely let you try stuff at yours. But those don't exist everywhere of course.
Old 29th December 2014
  #129
nms
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpulyn View Post
stupid question but do you think its viable to quickly sort converters by $$$ per channel of conversion ?
Since all manufacturers have widely varying resources, build costs, markups, and sales volume, this is really not the case. There are many factors which influence what you actually will get for your money. Personally I suggest if you're going to buy a converter new then don't buy something 6+yrs old. If you buy something 6+yrs old get a good deal for it used, and don't get anything less than mastering grade (those old Lavry DA/AD10's are nice). Investing thousands into 8+yr old converters has always seemed a dodgy purchase to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zigziglar View Post
It's not easy to find dealers willing to allow take home trials of converters. You generally have to find a large online store with a default no questions return period, and even then you need a large outlay so you can have at least three different units to compare.
This is exactly why I turned toward technical tests which can be done via loopback testing. Most people don't have the luxury of demoing converters, so they just roll the dice and buy something. As long as they perceive it to sound better than what they're upgrading from they're happy, but in most cases won't be able to see how it compares side by side with other potentially better alternatives.

Quote:
So ultimately, it seems sensible to continue down the Apogee path.
I'm not big on their lower lines, but their current flagship is always a pretty safe bet. They sound great and test clean.

Quote:
A question is how urgent is the upgrade? I think Lynx is likely to bust out something new soon.
The Aurora is due for an update, but I still think it'll be a while before we see it. An 8x8 Hilo seems like a pipe dream. As far as Lynx are concerned, they have their bases covered with the interchangeable LT interface cards, so they haven't needed to release a new converter just to add TB connectivity.
Old 30th December 2014
  #130
Gear Head
 
stvnm's Avatar
 

Orion 32 does that. My expeperience with hardware failure and repair has been horrible - measured in months, not weeks. If you go that route and have critical tasks, it would be better to have a back up plan of some sort.
Old 30th December 2014
  #131
Lives for gear
 

Mizpulyn, You have your cost comparisons out of whack if just comparing economics. The smarter way is to break it down as cost per channel of I/O which includes both the A to D converter, D to A converter, and interface (that comprises ONE channel of I/O (I/O stands for input/output)). As these may be all inclusive in one unit or spread out among many you then have an apples to apples basis of cost comparison. Thus with the interfaces you list that do not have converters or a limited amount of converter channels your figures are wrong (add converters and retotal). With the Apogee you list you would need to list both the A to D unit (AD16X) and the D to A unit (DA16X), total their used cost and divide by 16 (the number of complete channel I/O). The Orion unit is just 32 complete channels of I/O not 64 as you list. The example I gave earlier in this thread of the Alesis HD24XR for converters plus RME 9652 PCI card interface would be the total of their used cost $1500 divided by their total I/O channels, 24.

So an apples to apples revised list of channel I/O cost for you would be:

Motu: add converters and retotal

Orion: $87.50 per I/O (if just using the USB, some need to use an exterior MADI card at full load so add that extra cost and refigure if going down that road)

Apogee AD16X/DA16X used: $137.50 per I/O

Alesis HD24XR / RME 9652 used: $62.50 per I/O

Of course cost is ONLY one element to consider and given the lack of converter shootouts it's a huge assumption that cost has a concrete relation to quality of the conversion (likely there will be examples proving and disproving that assumption). There are intangables too like whether you can expand easily or are painted into a corner for I/O channel count as well as the quality of both the interface driver and it's software mixer (critical things to judge).

It's a mess out there deciding on what best fits your current and near future converter/interface needs. Budget / economics will only shorten the list of canidates and is just one element to consider.
Old 31st December 2014
  #132
Lovely debate,now let's take off the gloves.The OP stated he wants the finest conversion for his pre- collection. , etc.yes?
Breaking it down by dollar per channel is cool if your a bean counter,not if you are making records.
Bang fer buck is Alesis HD24Xr Jim Williams mod,have one that replaced Apogee 16x.Apogee is bloated mids,bad software,
overated.Alesis much flatter,solid bass,highs tamed and solid performance.Plus you can use it for remote recordings and as stand alone
conversion.No bling factor or rack bragging rights,just good sound.
Now go out and buy a Burl Mothership with your budget and add more cards as you go,work up to quality in a straight line not circles.
Most importantly you have to actually use these pieces in the context of your own productions to really know.If the OP is making heavier music,the extra octave down low is included for FREE with the Mothership.If you took all of the converter's mentioned and put them in a pile,then threw the Burl in it would crush them like a tin can.Thang is made for battle,those dudes give a ****.Smug alert over Santa Cruz,
where did i put my sunglasses?
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