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High End Monitor Controller
Old 9th October 2015
  #61
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Wiggy Neve Slut's Avatar
 

Any Crookwood users?
Old 9th October 2015
  #62
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My summary:
I use m905 and it's been great!
I bought it with the remote option but never used the remote option as my room is not huge.
The unit is practical and looks cool. Even much older folks who are not engineers but songwriters come in, and when I step out, can turn up volume, switch between speakers etc without me even having to spell it out to them. That's the winner for me. It's transparently clean and open sounding!
I wish maybe there was a couple of more inputs or that some of the inputs can be used together (meaning spdif and analog, almost like "and/or" function to toggle between, so it's almost like a mixer, but mixes various input types) so multiple references can be heard together, which I think would raise the workflow and save some $ for people. If this function already exists, I'd love to know.
Grace? Maybe there is a software update for something this?
Attached Thumbnails
High End Monitor Controller-image_7052_0.jpg  

Last edited by CJ1973; 9th October 2015 at 06:13 PM..
Old 10th October 2015
  #63
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Chris Wilson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ1973 View Post
My summary:
I wish maybe there was a couple of more inputs or that some of the inputs can be used together (meaning spdif and analog, almost like "and/or" function to toggle between, so it's almost like a mixer, but mixes various input types) so multiple references can be heard together, which I think would raise the workflow and save some $ for people. If this function already exists, I'd love to know.
Grace? Maybe there is a software update for something this?
This is a really good idea! I wonder how much it would have increased production cost to make the inputs customizable?

Accommodating every possible type of input may make the piece more widely accessible, but for many, it results in some unused buttons.

For example, the M905 has buttons to select between ADAT, S/PDIF, AES, and USB for digital inputs. I haven't even seen an ADAT recorder in about fifteen years and likewise have no use for S/PDIF.

On the analog input side, I wonder who would need an RCA input, and I don't know what a toslink even is.

I would have happily paid a little extra for additional AES and balanced inputs.

Oh, and the headphone amp is pretty good. Not strong enough for the most power hungry cans out there, but it powers the 80ohm headphones I have just fine!

Last edited by Chris Wilson; 10th October 2015 at 06:17 AM..
Old 10th October 2015
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Wilson View Post
This is a really good idea! I wonder how much it would have increased production cost to make the inputs customizable?
Accommodating every possible type of input may make the piece more widely accessible, but for many, it results in some unused buttons.
For example, the M905 has buttons to select between ADAT, S/PDIF, AES, and USB for digital inputs. I haven't even seen an ADAT recorder in about fifteen years and likewise have no use for S/PDIF.
Yeah it would be awesome. Perhaps it's a software update that may enable this? If so, that would be rad!! Especially in terms of customizing inputs.
With ADAT, here is the thing. Great companies like Apogee have ADAT Optical as in/out options. Check out Symphony, which is a great piece of gear. So the idea is to get Adat out from Apogee to M905, which is what I do. I may have a pair of channels assigned from my DAW into the Adat out. The remaining into the analog out. So I can do mix comparisons, especially if I have a reference track. However, imagine if both can be listened to concurrently, and individually, adat obviously having the cleanest signal path. I feel functions like this would be really useful.
If the customizable stuff are possible, Id benefit so much by running console out into analog in and then a pair of daw out into ADAT and then having them turned on at the same time to bring in a song being worked on, closer to a reference track or mix, which lots of mixing engineers go off, from producers's guide mixes etc.
In any event, its a super professional unit that just looks a part and does a great job.
Old 11th October 2015
  #65
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c1ferrari's Avatar
 

I'm also using the m905...fabulous analog section and converter, IMO. I would like to see the minimum phase digital filter made available (currently available on m920) and an additional set of analog balanced inputs over XLR.
Old 12th October 2015
  #66
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Reiner's Avatar
 

Still happy with my Monitor ST. :D
Old 12th October 2015
  #67
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Silvan's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Willett View Post
The Grace m903 is also excellent - at a lower cost and in a small simple box.
Confirmed. The m903 is compact and relatively versatile, but most important, the sonics are excellent.
Old 12th October 2015
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvan View Post
Confirmed. The m903 is compact and relatively versatile, but most important, the sonics are excellent.
Absolutely
Old 12th October 2015
  #69
Gear Head
 

Sorry to hijack...I have a Lynx aurora running adat into my 003 and I was looking for to switch my aurora to the usb and get a monitor controller to replace the 003. My question is it do the higher monitor controllers have their own DA conversion? And would this cause an issue or just be redundant with the already good DA of the aurora?

-manny
Old 12th October 2015
  #70
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dbjp's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by phaces6 View Post
Sorry to hijack...I have a Lynx aurora running adat into my 003 and I was looking for to switch my aurora to the usb and get a monitor controller to replace the 003. My question is it do the higher monitor controllers have their own DA conversion? And would this cause an issue or just be redundant with the already good DA of the aurora?

-manny
I felt the Avocet (v1) had a better DA than the Aurora 16, though it wasn't night and day.
Used the Avocet DA mostly, but had absolutely no problem using the Aurora DA into Avocet analog in.
YMMV
Old 12th October 2015
  #71
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Wilson View Post
Accommodating every possible type of input may make the piece more widely accessible, but for many, it results in some unused buttons.

For example, the M905 has buttons to select between ADAT, S/PDIF, AES, and USB for digital inputs. I haven't even seen an ADAT recorder in about fifteen years and likewise have no use for S/PDIF.
When I used the m905 with the Orion32 I routed ADAT to the monitor controller. The main mix output ran on 1/2 and I could assign, on the fly, additional outputs from Reaper to 3/4, 5/6, and 7/8 and swap between them. This worked great for times when I wanted to solo buses without impacting the headphone mix. Usually I just monitored from SPDIF which also carried the main mix.

I've used nearly every input and output except subwoofer (used DAC OUT for metering instead) and talkback mic input.
Old 12th October 2015
  #72
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Wilson View Post
Accommodating every possible type of input may make the piece more widely accessible, but for many, it results in some unused buttons.

For example, the M905 has buttons to select between ADAT, S/PDIF, AES, and USB for digital inputs. I haven't even seen an ADAT recorder in about fifteen years and likewise have no use for S/PDIF.
Many mid-priced interfaces, such as my RME UFX, have only one digital in/out plus an ADAT interface.

In my case, I'd like to use the UFX AES connections for an analog loop for 2-buss processing, using high-quality DA-AD convertors. This only leaves the ADAT output if I want to be able to monitor at a higher quality than the UFX DACs. So I'm considering the Grace M905 precisely because it does have an ADAT input and a very high quality DAC.
Old 15th October 2015
  #73
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Chris Wilson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by LesC View Post
Many mid-priced interfaces, such as my RME UFX, have only one digital in/out plus an ADAT interface.

In my case, I'd like to use the UFX AES connections for an analog loop for 2-buss processing, using high-quality DA-AD convertors. This only leaves the ADAT output if I want to be able to monitor at a higher quality than the UFX DACs. So I'm considering the Grace M905 precisely because it does have an ADAT input and a very high quality DAC.
Thank you LesC (as well as the others) for taking the time to explain the current function of ADAT inputs, I did not know any of that. Since you mentioned the loop-through function, would you (or someone) be able to help me figure out how to make it work?

I think I've got everything set up correctly. According to what the screen says, shouldn't any selected digital input be output through the AES/EBU output of the M905? I want to send a signal form a computer, via USB into the M905, then "looped" out to my Lavry DA converter.

Does this picture look correct? The Lavry recognizes it's connected to something, but no 1's and 0's are making their way to the Lavry DA. . .

Thanks guys,
Attached Thumbnails
High End Monitor Controller-img_0608.jpg  
Old 15th October 2015
  #74
Just bought the Grace analog version after reading this thread. Thanks All. I didn't need D/A.
Old 15th October 2015
  #75
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Wilson View Post
Thank you LesC (as well as the others) for taking the time to explain the current function of ADAT inputs, I did not know any of that. Since you mentioned the loop-through function, would you (or someone) be able to help me figure out how to make it work?

I think I've got everything set up correctly. According to what the screen says, shouldn't any selected digital input be output through the AES/EBU output of the M905? I want to send a signal form a computer, via USB into the M905, then "looped" out to my Lavry DA converter.

Does this picture look correct? The Lavry recognizes it's connected to something, but no 1's and 0's are making their way to the Lavry DA. . .

Thanks guys,
Hi Chris, I haven't even seen an M905, let alone used one. But from reading the owner's manual, it seems to me that your setup is probably correct, depending on what you're trying to do.

With this setup, how are you using the Lavry DA? For example, are you taking the Lavry analog output back into the Grace? If I'm understanding page 22/23 of the manual correctly, you can't monitor the Lavry output using the Grace, because if you switch the Grace to one of the analog inputs, then the USB output will no longer be routed to the Lavry.

On the other hand, if you're using the Lavry DA for some analog processing which is not being routed back to the Grace, then I think your setup is correct. In this case, something would seem to be defective, either the Grace, the digital cable connecting the Grace to the Lavry, or the Lavry.

Sorry if I'm completely misunderstanding, but more info might help me or someone else help you.
Old 15th October 2015
  #76
Gear Maniac
 
Chris Wilson's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by LesC View Post
Hi Chris, I haven't even seen an M905, let alone used one. But from reading the owner's manual, it seems to me that your setup is probably correct, depending on what you're trying to do.

With this setup, how are you using the Lavry DA? For example, are you taking the Lavry analog output back into the Grace? If I'm understanding page 22/23 of the manual correctly, you can't monitor the Lavry output using the Grace, because if you switch the Grace to one of the analog inputs, then the USB output will no longer be routed to the Lavry.

On the other hand, if you're using the Lavry DA for some analog processing which is not being routed back to the Grace, then I think your setup is correct. In this case, something would seem to be defective, either the Grace, the digital cable connecting the Grace to the Lavry, or the Lavry.

Sorry if I'm completely misunderstanding, but more info might help me or someone else help you.
Thank you for taking the time to research this. For some reason mine is not working, and LesC, your trouble shooting assessment is correct. I know the Lavry and cable to be fine, so I will contact Grace and see if they can help.

This age old conundrum moving a digital signal from a computer to an AES/EBU interface has been discussed many times. To my knowledge, there is still no USB to AES cable available, like one can buy for MIDI, for example. People have had to use interfaces (Some Avid, MOTU Traveler, that $1500 thing Weiss made, etc.) with AES pass throughs and hopefully the features in those $1,000+ boxes would be relevant to their needs.

For a person who's converters have only AES/EBU inputs (some Lavrys or Forssell for example) a monitor controller with an AES loop through is huge. The M905 digital loop through should follow whatever digital input you assign it to, either following the selected monitoring input or a fixed source if set up to do so. After reading the manual (and because I cannot get mine to work) I am unclear about what happens to the loop through when one switches from a digital to an analog input. Does a digital signal still pass through the M905? If so, it would open up a lot of routing possibilities.
Old 15th October 2015
  #77
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Wilson View Post
Thank you for taking the time to research this. For some reason mine is not working, and LesC, your trouble shooting assessment is correct. I know the Lavry and cable to be fine, so I will contact Grace and see if they can help.

This age old conundrum moving a digital signal from a computer to an AES/EBU interface has been discussed many times. To my knowledge, there is still no USB to AES cable available, like one can buy for MIDI, for example. People have had to use interfaces (Some Avid, MOTU Traveler, that $1500 thing Weiss made, etc.) with AES pass throughs and hopefully the features in those $1,000+ boxes would be relevant to their needs.

For a person who's converters have only AES/EBU inputs (some Lavrys or Forssell for example) a monitor controller with an AES loop through is huge. The M905 digital loop through should follow whatever digital input you assign it to, either following the selected monitoring input or a fixed source if set up to do so. After reading the manual (and because I cannot get mine to work) I am unclear about what happens to the loop through when one switches from a digital to an analog input. Does a digital signal still pass through the M905? If so, it would open up a lot of routing possibilities.
I believe that the way you have it set up, with Loop Source set to Follow DAC Input, if you switch from a digital to an analog input, then the Grace will not pass signal to the loop. If you set Loop Source to Toslink or SPDIF or AES1 or AES2, then the signal will be passed regardless of the input being selected.

Notice that one of the options was NOT USB or ADAT. My plan was to connect ADAT to the Grace, pass through to a MiniDSP Dirac, and connect the MiniDSP output to Grace AES1. This way I could listen without Dirac using a Grace input of ADAT, and listen with Dirac using a Grace input of AES1. That was my plan, but obviously now it won't work, so I'm glad you inspired me to look at this issue more closely. It's too bad that Grace couldn't treat USB and ADAT in the same way as the other digital connections.
Old 15th October 2015
  #78
Gear Addict
 

Now that I find I can't do what I want with the Grace M905, I'll seriously consider the Antelope Satori. The M905 analog version is about $2370, while the Satori is about $1775 including the R4S remote control. The Grace remote is a bit snazzier than the Antelope remote, but I don't think that's worth an extra $595 to me.
Old 15th October 2015
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_G View Post
Just bought the Grace analog version after reading this thread. Thanks All. I didn't need D/A.
Congrats! I bought the analog version earlier this year and have been really happy.

I spent some time looking at my current setup and mapping that to the Grace while at the same time factoring in where I want to go in the future and I came to the conclusion that, for me, I didn't need the D/A.

But the nice thing is there is an upgrade path to that if things were to change.
Old 26th October 2015
  #80
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Adkins's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by phaces6 View Post
My question is it do the higher monitor controllers have their own DA conversion? And would this cause an issue or just be redundant with the already good DA of the aurora?
If your cable runs are short, you might consider a high quality passive unit.
Old 26th October 2015
  #81
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I really wanted to like the Satori, but I heard an obvious degradation of HF compared to monitoring directly off my symphony i/o...dug the interface and the remote though. Heard they're working on improving the sonics of it or plan to. Went back to just monitoring off the i/o
Old 6th November 2015
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Wilson View Post
Thank you for taking the time to research this. For some reason mine is not working, and LesC, your trouble shooting assessment is correct. I know the Lavry and cable to be fine, so I will contact Grace and see if they can help.

This age old conundrum moving a digital signal from a computer to an AES/EBU interface has been discussed many times. To my knowledge, there is still no USB to AES cable available, like one can buy for MIDI, for example. People have had to use interfaces (Some Avid, MOTU Traveler, that $1500 thing Weiss made, etc.) with AES pass throughs and hopefully the features in those $1,000+ boxes would be relevant to their needs.

For a person who's converters have only AES/EBU inputs (some Lavrys or Forssell for example) a monitor controller with an AES loop through is huge. The M905 digital loop through should follow whatever digital input you assign it to, either following the selected monitoring input or a fixed source if set up to do so. After reading the manual (and because I cannot get mine to work) I am unclear about what happens to the loop through when one switches from a digital to an analog input. Does a digital signal still pass through the M905? If so, it would open up a lot of routing possibilities.
Hi Chris,

The m905 will route the USB input to the digital out as long as it is the last digital input selected and loop out setting is set for follow DAC input. You can switch to analog inputs and the USB should still feed the digital out. Have you had any luck in getting this to work?
-Alex
Old 6th November 2015
  #83
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace Design View Post
Hi Chris,

The m905 will route the USB input to the digital out as long as it is the last digital input selected and loop out setting is set for follow DAC input. You can switch to analog inputs and the USB should still feed the digital out. Have you had any luck in getting this to work?
-Alex
Hi Alex, I'm looking to do something similar to this. Would you please tell me if the following is possible?

I'd like to go from the RME UFX ADAT out to the M905 ADAT in. Then the M905 AES out to the MiniDSP Dirac AES in. Then the MiniDSP Dirac AES out to the M905 AES in. By the way, if you're not familiar with it, the MiniDSP Dirac is a digital-in-to-digital-out device that implements room correction.

In other words, I want to monitor the UFX ADAT output filtered through the MiniDSP Dirac, which unfortunately doesn't have an ADAT input. Can this be made to work somehow with the M905? If yes, I will be buying an M905.
Old 7th November 2015
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LesC View Post
Hi Alex, I'm looking to do something similar to this. Would you please tell me if the following is possible?

I'd like to go from the RME UFX ADAT out to the M905 ADAT in. Then the M905 AES out to the MiniDSP Dirac AES in. Then the MiniDSP Dirac AES out to the M905 AES in. By the way, if you're not familiar with it, the MiniDSP Dirac is a digital-in-to-digital-out device that implements room correction.

In other words, I want to monitor the UFX ADAT output filtered through the MiniDSP Dirac, which unfortunately doesn't have an ADAT input. Can this be made to work somehow with the M905? If yes, I will be buying an M905.
Currently the m905 won't allow for sending ADAT out the digital output and monitoring the AES input, but we could probably make a custom firmware for you that will fix the digital output to ADAT and allow monitoring the AES input.
You could also configure the second ADAT out on the RME to be optical S/PDIF so you can go in to the Toslink input on the m905, set the digital out for toslink, then monitor the Dirac on AES. You could also go AES out of the RME into AES1 on the m905, set the digi out for AES1, then connect the Dirac to AES2 and monitor that way also.
Hopefully that helps!
Old 7th November 2015
  #85
Gear Addict
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace Design View Post
Currently the m905 won't allow for sending ADAT out the digital output and monitoring the AES input, but we could probably make a custom firmware for you that will fix the digital output to ADAT and allow monitoring the AES input.
You could also configure the second ADAT out on the RME to be optical S/PDIF so you can go in to the Toslink input on the m905, set the digital out for toslink, then monitor the Dirac on AES. You could also go AES out of the RME into AES1 on the m905, set the digi out for AES1, then connect the Dirac to AES2 and monitor that way also.
Hopefully that helps!
Holy cow! The custom firmware option sounds amazing, no pun intended.

Unfortunately, the UFX effectively has only one digital output, not including the ADAT. The optical S/PDIF and the AES mirror each other. I want to use the UFX AES in and out for analog processing with a high-quality DA-AD unit, which leaves only the ADAT out for monitoring. Of course, another option is to use the ADAT in-out for a high-quality DA-AD unit, such as a Prism Lyra 2 which has a second DAC for monitoring, and then I could use a stock M905 or possibly an M905 Analog.

What should I do to get the ball rolling on investigating the custom firmware option? Unfortunately, I'm in Toronto (Canada), which means I might as well be in outer Mongolia as far as high-end audio, plus the Canadian dollar has a value just under that of Monopoly money. Should I deal directly with Grace Design or go through the Canadian distributor, which I believe is Studio Economik in Montreal?
Old 7th November 2015
  #86
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Avocet arrives today
Old 8th November 2015
  #87
OAE
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phaces6 View Post
Sorry to hijack...I have a Lynx aurora running adat into my 003 and I was looking for to switch my aurora to the usb and get a monitor controller

-manny
I use aurora lt-usb with Coleman tb4. I'm very happy with these.
Old 20th November 2015
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djdrew75 View Post
1 a. Meter in software doesn't seem to represent what is actual coming out of protools software and apollo interface. Satori seem to be off by 10db.
b. Also seem to lag the actual audio. Not very responsive.

2. In the Satori manual (Page 11 #17 ) it is stated controllability of headphone 3 and 4 via main volume attenuator knob on hardware. This does not seem possible, at least not in the same way as headphones 1 and 2.

3. Talk back in general seem low even when volume is all the way up. I have tried internal mic and external mic(Sennheiser E822s) from back panel. It just never get loud enough for artist in vocal booth.

4. Mono and M/S bottom seem to work backwards. When you initially press the mono button m/s button is lit, This would lead me to believe that m/s is active. That is not the case, you are in mono mode when both M/S and MONO lights are lit.

5. No hardware control for headphone 3 & 4.

6. Customer support was not professional in my opinion.
I agree with everything you mentioned here. I have been posting in this forum about it. https://www.gearslutz.com/board/prod...ntelope+satori

I am returning my Satori based on all 6 reasons you listed here. I decided to go with the Dangerous Monitor ST. And yes the meters lag big time on the Satori Control software. The 7th reason for me is you can hear the relay changes coming through the speakers when changing the volume on the Satori. The unit sounds good but Antelope needs to go back to the drawing board and get the functionality working correctly.
Old 20th November 2015
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mecaudio View Post
I agree with everything you mentioned here. I have been posting in this forum about it. https://www.gearslutz.com/board/prod...ntelope+satori

I am returning my Satori based on all 6 reasons you listed here. I decided to go with the Dangerous Monitor ST. And yes the meters lag big time on the Satori Control software. The 7th reason for me is you can hear the relay changes coming through the speakers when changing the volume on the Satori. The unit sounds good but Antelope needs to go back to the drawing board and get the functionality working correctly.
Yea I went with dangerous music dbox and it may not have the same bells and whistles but built quality is better sound is different not better or worse but more warmer. Plus it has its own bells and whistles over the satori.
Old 22nd November 2015
  #90
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If anyone is still searching for a true high-end solution: Funk Tonstudiotechnik is as good as it gets from a technical stand point. Featurewise everyone has different needs. You can get an (unfortunately not very up-to-date) overview pdf here
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