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1st day with a 480L - utterly impressed, will an ams rmx do the same to me? Reverb/Delay Processors (HW)
Old 24th November 2014
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. harrison View Post
yeah i have a harrison console. the reason i´m using outbard fx is (besides using a console) theres more life and depth in them. a 480L drags me into a space whereas a IR of it feels like a black and white photo of it. i just compared the relab plug to the 480L and although it sounds simular its not there. and i just hate to fiddle around on these GUIs with a mouse. touching faders, turning buttons is quicker and feels better too.

but i think if one has only medium or lower quality monitors the difference might not be that audible. i bought the focal sm9 last year and they have a great way of displaying reverb. i think that was when i got really mad about reverbs but it was worth it. since yesterday i´ve been just checking out and comparing the 480L to the M200 to the M5000

"a IR of it feels like a black and white photo of it"


Well put...

Here, here.

Old 24th November 2014
  #92
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TheLastByte, regarding the manual you mentioned, that's what I was referring to when I wrote that an early manual hinted at some kind of combo unit. But of the hundreds of AMS units that have passed through our shop (including several weird, early DMX versions) I have never seen a combination DMX / Reverb, or a photo of one, seen a schematic of one, or heard of anyone (until you, anyway) that owned or used one.

You wrote that you had an "AMS RMX/1580/S Broadcast with no Nudge buttons". Are you sure that it had true reverb functionality (not just recirculated delay), and did it have "RMX" somewhere in the model number or front panel? If so I would love to know more about it, but my impression was always that this was a kind of vaporware thing, and that soon after considering it, AMS decided to start from scratch and build their reverb unit from the ground up, with the higher bit rate and improved conversion.
Old 24th November 2014
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Station View Post
Ignore what people say...IE Ambience/Non Lin that's it with the AMS. For example try Plate A1 on drums/guitars...sounds really dark, I use it quite a bit.

You can hear it on a track I did recently actually, in fact it was the only reverb I used



Also get the 17 program upgrade from David.

Looking forward to the new remote!
Quote:
Originally Posted by aramism View Post
Space station cool track. The reverb indeed sounds awesome. I've used other programs on there except nonlin and Amb also with great success.

Didn't someone who worked with Celine Dion say it was her main vocal reverb or am I wrong?
Thanks! I have heard this before...not really a recommendation for the AMS for me though
Old 24th November 2014
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Station View Post
Thanks! I have heard this before...not really a recommendation for the AMS for me though
I was going to say the same. Glad YOU said it.
Old 24th November 2014
  #95
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I've had a 480L here for 14 years and I cannot believe in anybody hasn't name checked the Large Wood Room or the Ricochet settings. Both of these need a chair because they sit so well in a mix.
Old 26th November 2014
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kulka View Post
TheLastByte, regarding the manual you mentioned, that's what I was referring to when I wrote that an early manual hinted at some kind of combo unit. But of the hundreds of AMS units that have passed through our shop (including several weird, early DMX versions) I have never seen a combination DMX / Reverb, or a photo of one, seen a schematic of one, or heard of anyone (until you, anyway) that owned or used one.

You wrote that you had an "AMS RMX/1580/S Broadcast with no Nudge buttons". Are you sure that it had true reverb functionality (not just recirculated delay), and did it have "RMX" somewhere in the model number or front panel? If so I would love to know more about it, but my impression was always that this was a kind of vaporware thing, and that soon after considering it, AMS decided to start from scratch and build their reverb unit from the ground up, with the higher bit rate and improved conversion.
Hi,
The unit actually had no Nudge Buttons such as an RMX-16 Stock (As you'd know them to be)...etc though other buttons for function, also it had no keypad - worse it came with no way to edit Programs - so sans remote is was a door stop (and a bargain) stuck on 1 Preset after power up. I spoke to AMS by phone regarding this and was told it was a special to order Broadcast Model and that remote units were not made anymore....! AMS stated that "Certain Units" could be serviced and upgraded though the cost was huge! The source for a Remote was a specific Broadcast, Radio an Post Production Re-seller. Near 7-9 months later I found a Remote and IIRC it was a certain pinned RS232c - Bodge IIRC type cable to remote, I found the unit slow unresponsive, and clunky and it sounded very, very harsh and grainy...more 10 bit then 12 bit to bad or faulty 16 bit grainy and that was into an Analog Console etc... so I'm sure it was an early model. Still there seems many Incarnations from AMS on The RMX & Time-flex 1580 - Chorus - Delay-AV Sync - and the Compressor/Expander plus many other models & incarnations of other units, not sure if these have passed through your hands, no doubt they have!

Lack of Literature was a problem back then, and Special Order AMS products/Fixes cost a fortune. In the end I think it was sold to a Pro Audio Dealer in the USA. I've heard of the same units floating around from friends..so I'm sure their are units out there, AMS/Neve have also resumed service of units such as the AMS-RMX-16 & 1580/S so from India to Europe and the UK I'm sure AMS/Neve might be an easier option for repair for those last 5 years etc - (No Disrespect to Studio Electronics) etc. I'll ask a few FX heads I know and see if I can find a Video or pictures etc. Thanks for your knowledge David!

Regards
TLB.

P.S this is the type of thing I'm talking about!

1st day with a 480L - utterly impressed, will an ams rmx do the same to me?-ams-rmx-16-delay-161.jpg
Attached Thumbnails
1st day with a 480L - utterly impressed, will an ams rmx do the same to me?-ams-rmx-16-delay-161.jpg  

Last edited by TheLastByte; 26th November 2014 at 07:43 AM.. Reason: Picture
Old 26th November 2014
  #97
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I sold my TC M5000 and AMS RMX-16 to get a Bricasti M7. The 480L is the bomb. I probably would swap my M7 as well for a 480L.
You have a nice collection of outboard reverb and delay units - Lexicon 480L,Lexicon 200, AMS RMX-16, TC M5000 and TC 2290. Going into the Harrison desk they must sound amazing. I have been connecting my Eventide H8000FW, 224, M7, PCM 96 and TC 2290 to my Euphonix desk (which I just got) and they sound so much better going into the console than ITB.

I miss the AMS RMX-16 a lot. it was good for getting that Celine Dion and Michael Buble sound.
Old 26th November 2014
  #98
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LastByte, that's really interesting, and thanks for telling the story.

I'm really surprised because I thought that by now we'd seen every delay and reverb version that AMS ever built. Besides that I've got all sorts of old reviews, price lists, brochures, and schematics, and except for the manual we both mentioned, I've never seen any documentation that mentioned this version. But apparently, it really did exist, at least in very limited numbers. If anyone out there owns one of these or has any photo or documentation, please share.

Did the remote that you used resemble the one below? AMS built several versions of these remotes. They all looked about the same on the outside, but had different circuitry inside I've come across about 10 of these, and have partial schematics. They are very unreliable, and almost impossible to repair. I have one that works ("most of the time") that I've held on to for reference.

Yes, they used a bar code reader and AMS distributed "new programs" on laminated sheets like the example you posted. You loaded them into volatile memory with the bar code reader stylus, which worked sometimes, and they resided in the unit until the backup battery ran down. (Our upgrade kit permanently adds the extra programs.)

Here's a photo of the original RMX16 remote, and a preview of our soon to be released DMX/RMX remote. Thanks again for passing along the interesting info abourt your older unit.
Attached Thumbnails
1st day with a 480L - utterly impressed, will an ams rmx do the same to me?-rmxremote.jpg   1st day with a 480L - utterly impressed, will an ams rmx do the same to me?-dscn5440.jpg  
Old 26th November 2014
  #99
Lives for gear
Supermarkets used these as well as AMS. I remember seeing the one on the left at Tescos in the UK.
Old 30th November 2014
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kulka View Post
LastByte, that's really interesting, and thanks for telling the story.

I'm really surprised because I thought that by now we'd seen every delay and reverb version that AMS ever built. Besides that I've got all sorts of old reviews, price lists, brochures, and schematics, and except for the manual we both mentioned, I've never seen any documentation that mentioned this version. But apparently, it really did exist, at least in very limited numbers. If anyone out there owns one of these or has any photo or documentation, please share.

Did the remote that you used resemble the one below? AMS built several versions of these remotes. They all looked about the same on the outside, but had different circuitry inside I've come across about 10 of these, and have partial schematics. They are very unreliable, and almost impossible to repair. I have one that works ("most of the time") that I've held on to for reference.

Yes, they used a bar code reader and AMS distributed "new programs" on laminated sheets like the example you posted. You loaded them into volatile memory with the bar code reader stylus, which worked sometimes, and they resided in the unit until the backup battery ran down. (Our upgrade kit permanently adds the extra programs.)

Here's a photo of the original RMX16 remote, and a preview of our soon to be released DMX/RMX remote. Thanks again for passing along the interesting info about your older unit.
Hi David,

Indeed This AMS Franken-RMX-Delay was a serious hassle to get up and going, the model of the remote you how show (Left hand side of screen) is pretty accurate though it was not a Bar Code scanner, (Separate Unit IIRC) as the remote (Which was the same size). The remote just seemed to never connect properly. It was a scenario of loading instructions pressing enter and praying for a result. Often it was seemingly up to the computational power and two people holding and pressing each end of the connector for dear life (Trying to make sure all pins connected!) IIRC it was also a Clamp type cable that once hooked into the Pins of the AMS held like Crab Claws, though..Nope.. It Never did it have enough pressure to actually hold the pins in tight enough when making a correction to the programs.

I did use the Barcode Scanner quite a few times as that was the only way to access new programs (On Cards that were laminated) though it was not only a hassle to get a hold of one, though if there was one tiny molecule size speck of dirt or grime, the remote spat the programme info out like a dog Vomit... bloody horrid thing! Widow cleaner was the only way to make the cards readable in some circumstances with Rinse, Soak, Repeat, then washed with water afterwards (huge hassle) & fingerprints were just as bad...Lol..! The most amazing thing was that you could (to our collective astonishment) actually load a Delay - Delay Shift - Reverb programme and you could mess with it by turning two knobs on the front of the AMS and /or the remote buttons which actually worked 30%-40% of the time though very frustrating indeed. Basically the Facia was AMS RMX and take away the nudge & keypad (Add few extra buttons) and that was it...ad remote and you had an AMS Something?

I do remember Nile Rogers working with Bowie's "Let's Dance" at a Large Studio at the time had a 12-15 AMS Devices. All new weird and wonderful.....the accountants were I was working at the time were not so passionate, a Yamaha Rev 1 seemed fine to them alongside a 224X and SP2016. Though we had many FX units the main Studios hired hem out with Studio time. In other words you paid an extra $50 Bucks per hour per Session for all the FX units they had. So.... Studio Session 12 Hours time (Plus extra for Lock out per Hour) FX Units, Dynamics, Microphones etc.

For this particular Studio it "Collectively doubled" your Studio fees and often there was huge debate as it tripled those fees. Though if you were with an EMI label or affiliate label = no problem - It was simply time deducted from your fees (Royalties etc). Other Studios "Refuted" this practice as being unfair to many artists - As you booked the Studio, you got the whole Studio and everything in it. EMI were very different about this! Thus is 1983 - to - 1987 many Big Name Artists came to EMI 301 to make huge Album recordings, then follow the world touring from Summer onwards!

The huge upshot of this was so much Overseas Gear that "Arrived" with Big New Bands and O.S Producers whom otherwise would have taken it elsewhere. Many units were left here as not needed or required and/or to expensive to take on tour! Just to keep the thread On Topic - Yeap, EMI were with the first to have a Lexicon 480L as well IIRC.......Though Man did you pay for the unit per Hour, all up around another $900 Bucks per day for a Lock out! Still for a young kid as a tape Op back then it was a very exciting time! I Still.. have the number and Invoice from whom I bought it from - I'll contact them for more info if you'd like?

Kind Regards
TheLastByte
Old 3rd January 2015
  #101
Gear Addict
today i compared both outputs of the 480L with the same settings to eachother (for the first time) and realized they dont sound the same! one has more hi frequency and less bottom than the other one - i guess this is not normal right??? they should sound 100% the same?
Old 4th January 2015
  #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. harrison View Post
today i compared both outputs of the 480L with the same settings to eachother (for the first time) and realized they dont sound the same! one has more hi frequency and less bottom than the other one - i guess this is not normal right??? they should sound 100% the same?

With 3 for sale I was asked if they had been recapped, so there is room for differences with maintenance called into question. Ours perform brilliantly so I assume they were recapped prior to our acquisition....
Old 4th January 2015
  #103
Gear Addict
ok so u mean it could be a recapping job? my 480L is supposed to be a rather young one and it looked absolutely mint ... damn i´m having so much vintage reverb hassles at the moment (480L, 224xl, AMS RMX 16)
Old 4th January 2015
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jules View Post
Vocalists love RMX 16 IMHO
+1
Old 4th January 2015
  #105
Gear Addict
ok problem located, not the 480L but my little fx return submixer. had a phase problem - phew
Old 5th January 2015
  #106
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. harrison View Post
ok problem located, not the 480L but my little fx return submixer. had a phase problem - phew
Phew!!!
Old 5th January 2015
  #107
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Vintageidiot's Avatar
I didn't mean to worry you, just thought I should share what I had learned recently.....
Old 6th January 2015
  #108
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The AMS RMX 16 is a lovely unit. I had one until I sold it and a TC5000 to get a Bricasti which I don't regret. There is nothing wrong with the halls and plates on the RMX 16. They are very useable and have been used on countless records. The Ambience and NonLin programs are very special. The Ambience program is wonderful. It has been used most notably on Michael Buble and Celine Dion. Of course the NonLin program is great for that 80s drum sound. Phil Collins comes to mind.
The RMX-16 will be the next reverb unit I purchase. I miss it a lot.
Old 6th January 2015
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waldie wave View Post
The AMS RMX 16 is a lovely unit. I had one until I sold it and a TC5000 to get a Bricasti which I don't regret. There is nothing wrong with the halls and plates on the RMX 16. They are very useable and have been used on countless records. The Ambience and NonLin programs are very special. The Ambience program is wonderful. It has been used most notably on Michael Buble and Celine Dion. Of course the NonLin program is great for that 80s drum sound. Phil Collins comes to mind.
The RMX-16 will be the next reverb unit I purchase. I miss it a lot.
I guess you have tried the M7 non-lin program and found it wanting. :(

I did not try to get the exact vibe of the RMX, as I am sure you know.

Now I am doing pretty much the same with the RMX ambience program. Am I missing the mark?



-Casey
Old 7th January 2015
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
I guess you have tried the M7 non-lin program and found it wanting. :(

I did not try to get the exact vibe of the RMX, as I am sure you know.

Now I am doing pretty much the same with the RMX ambience program. Am I missing the mark?



-Casey
On the contrary I have used the non-lin presets on the Bricasti on drums and have achieved great results. The non-lin presets on the Bricasti are more versatile and are sonically better than the RMX-16. However, they are not the same as the RMX-16 and as you have indicated you did not try to emulate it on the Bricasti. Also I don't think anyone has quite captured the magic of the RMX-16 ambience program (no disrespect intended). As soon as you dial it on there is something very special happening. The same magic is not there on any other unit which emulates it or has an ambience preset whether it is a Bricasti, H8000FW or otherwise. Having said that I have no intention of ever selling my Bricasti (even if I go deaf) and as I said do not regret selling my TC5000 and RMX-16 to get the Bricasti. The rooms and chambers are among the best I have heard and the halls, plates and non-lin presets are stellar.
Old 1st February 2015
  #111
Gear Addict
just had a long play around with the rmx last night - i love those endless reverbs on that (besides everything else)... an 808 thru that ... trippy! i also played around with the delay which i think sounds awesome too. i love those LP filters on this machine, they sound so warm and smooth. unfortunatly one side can only be used in 150 ms max which is a bit limiting. is there a way to a) balance the delay times from a & b more even (increasing the small one) or to upgrade the delay time in general?

and about the dmx1580 - is there a frequency control like in the RMX? (those filters!!)
Old 1st February 2015
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. harrison View Post
just had a long play around with the rmx last night - i love those endless reverbs on that (besides everything else)... an 808 thru that ... trippy! i also played around with the delay which i think sounds awesome too. i love those LP filters on this machine, they sound so warm and smooth. unfortunatly one side can only be used in 150 ms max which is a bit limiting. is there a way to a) balance the delay times from a & b more even (increasing the small one) or to upgrade the delay time in general?

and about the dmx1580 - is there a frequency control like in the RMX? (those filters!!)
I can only say this......on a record or CD I recorded, had I used Eventide DSP4000 AMS 1580 & RMX Simulations you'd have no bloody idea whatsoever! That's near a 1993 unit......so Unless your RMX or SDMX is right out front, I wouldn't be to precious! The H8000.....Don't even get me started!

Regards
TheLastbyte
Old 1st February 2015
  #113
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Space Station's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. harrison View Post
just had a long play around with the rmx last night - i love those endless reverbs on that (besides everything else)... an 808 thru that ... trippy! i also played around with the delay which i think sounds awesome too. i love those LP filters on this machine, they sound so warm and smooth. unfortunatly one side can only be used in 150 ms max which is a bit limiting. is there a way to a) balance the delay times from a & b more even (increasing the small one) or to upgrade the delay time in general?

and about the dmx1580 - is there a frequency control like in the RMX? (those filters!!)
Hi, you must have an early RMX with the smaller ram cards...the later ones had 1.2 seconds channel A and 400 milliseconds on channel B... it is possible to 'upgrade' by changing the cards and some mucking about with jumpers if you have 2 rams card or 1. Later ones have 1 higher capacity card.

The mono 1580 has a high-pass filter. The 1580s/S-DMX has none. Thats not to stop you adding a filter externally.
Old 1st February 2015
  #114
Gear Addict
i know there are 2 empty slots in my rmx. maybe one of them is for a ram upgrade?
Old 1st February 2015
  #115
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Space Station's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. harrison View Post
i know there are 2 empty slots in my rmx. maybe one of them is for a ram upgrade?
Doubtful because as I said the last RMX's had 1 high capacity ram card instead of 2. RMX's always have a few empty slots.

The really early ones used 4116 ram...which were nasty horrible IC's that needed 3 separate power rails to work..
Old 3rd February 2015
  #116
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Casey's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Space Station View Post
The really early ones used 4116 ram...which were nasty horrible IC's that needed 3 separate power rails to work..
Hey, I used to make my living on 4116s. Nasty? Hardly! They made so much early technology possible. Yes more power pins than data pins, but 16kb in a chip. That was a breakthrough.

I used to build video frame buffers out of them in 1980. 107mHz output. It will be a while before we need that in Audio!



-Casey
Old 3rd February 2015
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
Hey, I used to make my living on 4116s. Nasty? Hardly! They made so much early technology possible. Yes more power pins than data pins, but 16kb in a chip. That was a breakthrough.

I used to build video frame buffers out of them in 1980. 107mHz output. It will be a while before we need that in Audio!



-Casey
Didn't they go to the moon (Lem Module) on 64 kilobytes?

Man.....That thought makes you feel small in SSD Terabyte Land!
Old 3rd February 2015
  #118
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Space Station's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey View Post
Hey, I used to make my living on 4116s. Nasty? Hardly! They made so much early technology possible. Yes more power pins than data pins, but 16kb in a chip. That was a breakthrough.

I used to build video frame buffers out of them in 1980. 107mHz output. It will be a while before we need that in Audio!



-Casey
haha..depends on your perspective Casey. I don't doubt they were technologically impressive in 1979 or whenever they came out, but for someone like me who has to keep stuff running with them in, in 2015..yes they are horrible and nasty...generate a ton of heat, what with a -5, +5 and +12 supply required..and fail like MF's...

I generally mod anything loaded with a bunch of 4116 in sockets to 4164(+5 only needed)..such as the video ram in old Williams arcade machines(Defender, Robotron etc) ..takes a healthy load off the old linear PSU too

Last edited by Space Station; 3rd February 2015 at 09:05 PM..
Old 9th May 2015
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Kulka View Post
TheLastByte, regarding the manual you mentioned, that's what I was referring to when I wrote that an early manual hinted at some kind of combo unit. But of the hundreds of AMS units that have passed through our shop (including several weird, early DMX versions) I have never seen a combination DMX / Reverb, or a photo of one, seen a schematic of one, or heard of anyone (until you, anyway) that owned or used one.

You wrote that you had an "AMS RMX/1580/S Broadcast with no Nudge buttons". Are you sure that it had true reverb functionality (not just recirculated delay), and did it have "RMX" somewhere in the model number or front panel? If so I would love to know more about it, but my impression was always that this was a kind of vaporware thing, and that soon after considering it, AMS decided to start from scratch and build their reverb unit from the ground up, with the higher bit rate and improved conversion.
Hi David,
as we were discussing the early AMS units from the DM to the Last generation AMS 15-80/S and RMX-16 were indeed separate units. The early units as I mentioned came in a variety of configurations. It seems people find it incomprehensible that a AMS-1580 unit could have an RMX-16 Reverb Card in it's System - I did have one, and the unit was as I've spoken of previously, as a touch unwieldy, and required a remote. Not having the Picture from so many years ago created a scenario where "if you can't see it, it mustn't be so. So instead of a long winding post - for those interested I will throw up some early AMS Effect unit options from 1981.

These Pictures and PDF clearly show how a DM original designation to RMX came about or 1580SB or other config could carry an RMX-16 card. more so as Delay cards were 400ms. The DMX-R16 was a 1580 with an RMX installed. As I understand, their were numerous units sold under these designations, mainly to Broadcast/Radio and ITS /ITV/ BBC and others ordered from AMS in large quantities. As AMS were taken over by Calrec at one time and later Siemans acquired Neve - then AMS were amalgamated with Neve, I understand for some time getting AMS to fix certain AMS FX units wasn't an option from the late 1980's to Mid 1990's until they finally started to service units again in 1999- to 2005, then ceased, and started Servicing the AMS RMX-16 and DMX-1580/S units once more. I'm not sure if this was due to "Management Operations" or "Technical Staff" though I'm certain hundreds if not thousands of AMS units were thrown out and should 1 Control Card have blown - rendered the unit useless save for a few savvy Tech's out their at the time such as yourself and Studio Electronics. Anyhow - I hope this somehow gives an insight into the many and varied different AMS units that were not only made, though still float around in many Studio racks in 2015!

Kind Regards
TheLastByte

1st day with a 480L - utterly impressed, will an ams rmx do the same to me?-ams-dmx-15-r-ddl-reverb.jpg

1st day with a 480L - utterly impressed, will an ams rmx do the same to me?-dmx-15-ddl-reverb-fx-processors.jpg

1st day with a 480L - utterly impressed, will an ams rmx do the same to me?-ams-15-80-sb-stereo-broadcast-ddl.jpg

1st day with a 480L - utterly impressed, will an ams rmx do the same to me?-ams-sb-1580-rmx-card-optional-broadcast-model.jpg

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/atta...1&d=1431198271
Attached Thumbnails
1st day with a 480L - utterly impressed, will an ams rmx do the same to me?-dmx-15-ddl-reverb-fx-processors.jpg   1st day with a 480L - utterly impressed, will an ams rmx do the same to me?-ams-sb-1580-rmx-card-optional-broadcast-model.jpg   1st day with a 480L - utterly impressed, will an ams rmx do the same to me?-ams-15-80-sb-stereo-broadcast-ddl.jpg   1st day with a 480L - utterly impressed, will an ams rmx do the same to me?-ams-dmx-15-r-ddl-reverb.jpg  
Attached Files
File Type: pdf AMS 1580SB:RMX Card Model.pdf (1.70 MB, 190 views)
Old 10th May 2015
  #120
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nednerd's Avatar
 

Yes the DMX15R + DMX1580s combo exists.
There was one on ebay Germany about half a year ago.
Had actual pictures of the units.
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