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Amphion... Beautiful
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7351
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowkey View Post
^yep. When I first got my One 15s I set them up in the living room first behind a Thorens turntable into a Naim amplifier with some pretty decent speaker cables and was like WTF!?! Thought I’d made a big mistake buying them second hand without having the chance to listen to the first. They sounded flat and boring, though they were also running as midfields.

But they are awesome mix tools. In my studio I know if I’m even close to enjoying how they sound then I’m not far off finished
They need a room of the right size and tightness to lean up against. If you stick them in a big, loose room their output will vanish into thin air like a man shouting into space, and sound weak and tiny.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7352
Lives for gear
I for one also love to listen to music on them (One15). Creating / engineering music with them is pure bliss.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7353
Lives for gear
I been really thinking if the 15 amphion. I like what I heard in aes New York. I think I enjoyed the 15 more the the 18. Anyway I am using the Hedd type 20 3 way. I like the hedds but I have to sit about 6 feet away and would like to sit closer I do not have a big room. So i been thinking about the Amphions. Is going from 3 way down grading to 2 way. Thank you.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7354
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spektor View Post
I been really thinking if the 15 amphion. I like what I heard in aes New York. I think I enjoyed the 15 more the the 18. Anyway I am using the Hedd type 20 3 way. I like the hedds but I have to sit about 6 feet away and would like to sit closer I do not have a big room. So i been thinking about the Amphions. Is going from 3 way down grading to 2 way. Thank you.
Try it and let us know.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7355
Lives for gear
 
Shaggy2039's Avatar
For those that have compared the Two 15, Two 18, and One 18....

Does the Two 15 have the most extended and bright top end of all the Amphions? From what I'm reading the Two 18, One 18 are more relaxed above 10Khz while the Two 15 actually feel like they jump out above that 10khz. It's almost as if I can make micro adjustments to stuff like 13Khz or something up there which is crazy to me.

I heard the One 15 actually rolls off some of the top end which I do not want. The Two 15's are kind of brutal up in that area (maybe that would improve with the better resolution and quality of the Amp 700 though) but I do like how that informs my decisions with mixing.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7356
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy2039 View Post
For those that have compared the Two 15, Two 18, and One 18....

Does the Two 15 have the most extended and bright top end of all the Amphions? From what I'm reading the Two 18, One 18 are more relaxed above 10Khz while the Two 15 actually feel like they jump out above that 10khz. It's almost as if I can make micro adjustments to stuff like 13Khz or something up there which is crazy to me.

I heard the One 15 actually rolls off some of the top end which I do not want. The Two 15's are kind of brutal up in that area (maybe that would improve with the better resolution and quality of the Amp 700 though) but I do like how that informs my decisions with mixing.
I've only worked with the two15s, which I've been on for the past 4 years or so. My Trinnov shows them having a peak around 10k, with it rolling off pretty quickly above that. Thats been consistent in several rooms I've had them in. I actually find it a little hard to get the top totally right on them alone. I always have to check my headphones for sibilance.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7357
Lives for gear
 
Shaggy2039's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dankin View Post
I've only worked with the two15s, which I've been on for the past 4 years or so. My Trinnov shows them having a peak around 10k, with it rolling off pretty quickly above that. Thats been consistent in several rooms I've had them in. I actually find it a little hard to get the top totally right on them alone. I always have to check my headphones for sibilance.
That's really interesting. What I'm hearing is closer to what the FR on their website looks like which you can see here. It actually slopes upward to 20Khz instead of dropping off. My room is really dead too so for it to go this bright is pretty nuts.

https://amphion.fi/create/products-p...tudio-monitor/

When I'm working with vocals the first thing I want to do is address the top end and sibilance and then work on the rest of the EQ'ing after.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7358
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy2039 View Post
That's really interesting. What I'm hearing is closer to what the FR on their website looks like which you can see here. It actually slopes upward to 20Khz instead of dropping off. My room is really dead too so for it to go this bright is pretty nuts.

https://amphion.fi/create/products-p...tudio-monitor/

When I'm working with vocals the first thing I want to do is address the top end and sibilance and then work on the rest of the EQ'ing after.
What amp are you using? I've had my two15's in 3 different rooms since I got the Trinnov, and I'm looking back through the measurements from the different rooms and while the lowend varies a lot, the top has measured pretty consistently. All show a rise from around 5k, peaking around 10k, then rolling off. This correlates well with what I'm hearing. I actually just did some measurements without my desk in place, as I was trying to see how much it was affecting things, and the top looks pretty close either way. The lower mids and and 60-100hz range measured better without the desk, but above 5k stayed about the same. I've been using a modded Adcom 545 for a while after a channel on my bryson 4bst went out. But lately, I've been really curious to try them with a Amphion amp and cables. Just to see what the difference would be. I'm going to reach out to one of the local dealers that I have a good relationship with, and see if I can borrow one so I can A/B it. I'll probably wait until they have the new 700.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7359
Lives for gear
 
Shaggy2039's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dankin View Post
What amp are you using? I've had my two15's in 3 different rooms since I got the Trinnov, and I'm looking back through the measurements from the different rooms and while the lowend varies a lot, the top has measured pretty consistently. All show a rise from around 5k, peaking around 10k, then rolling off. This correlates well with what I'm hearing. I actually just did some measurements without my desk in place, as I was trying to see how much it was affecting things, and the top looks pretty close either way. The lower mids and and 60-100hz range measured better without the desk, but above 5k stayed about the same. I've been using a modded Adcom 545 for a while after a channel on my bryson 4bst went out. But lately, I've been really curious to try them with a Amphion amp and cables. Just to see what the difference would be. I'm going to reach out to one of the local dealers that I have a good relationship with, and see if I can borrow one so I can A/B it. I'll probably wait until they have the new 700.
I'm using it with the Amphion Amp 500 and Amphion cables. I have not tried using REW on these yet - but they are super revealing above 10K in my room.

I'm really curious how the top end resolution changes with the Amp 700 which is what I will get when I pick these up. Apparently they're less fatiguing too.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7360
Lives for gear
 
Shaggy2039's Avatar
Pretty sure I identified why the Two 15's were initially causing some ear fatigue when I first got them a few days ago....

Compression / Limiting.

These monitors show compression ridiculously effectively and so much of the music I'm listening to sounds overly compressed on them but I couldn't hear this on my old Focal Twins or Adam S3X-H's. It also explains why I get zero fatigue when I'm composing and mixing on the Amphion because I'm doing the exact opposite and NOT over compressing anything. I can dial in attack and release in seconds on these Two 15's.

I was listening to one of my favorite mixed albums - Charlotte Gainsbourg's IRM. I moved the Two 15's about 4 inches wider and then moved my mix position back the same amount. HOLY F. I put on the song "Vanities" and it literally felt like Charlotte was singing the song right in front of me. It was crazy. Also, I can hear the headphone bleed easily on her vocal on this song which I couldn't before. The attack on the harps and guitars is just unreal.

I then put on another song from the same record - think it was track 3 or 4. The compression on the track was so over the top fatiguing that I had to stop listening.

These monitors are crazy amazing. Never heard anything like them, honestly.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7361
Lives for gear
 

They do reveal distortion and over compression better than anything else I've worked on. I've came home from tracking at another studio on Focal twins, only to discover there was some distortion on a vocal that I never heard in the studio. Limiting/distortion artifacts in masters are super obvious on the Amphions.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7362
Just dropping in to say my One 15's are still making me so happy on the mix after a few years of using them. Magic boxes.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7363
Quote:
Originally Posted by dankin View Post
I've only worked with the two15s, which I've been on for the past 4 years or so. My Trinnov shows them having a peak around 10k, with it rolling off pretty quickly above that. Thats been consistent in several rooms I've had them in. I actually find it a little hard to get the top totally right on them alone. I always have to check my headphones for sibilance.
I've attached a couple of measurements below.
One 15's with AMP100
One 18's with AMP100
Argon 7LS with AMP500

Never had the TWO15's but the ONE18's do look good up there, they were at least around 2.2m away from me at the time of measurement.

The ONE15's have a big drop after 10kHz but i believe bad positioning was the culprit at that time.
Attached Thumbnails
Amphion... Beautiful-argon-7ls.jpg   Amphion... Beautiful-one-15.jpg   Amphion... Beautiful-one-18.jpg  

Last edited by TeKBoT; 2 weeks ago at 03:05 PM..
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7364
Gear Nut
 
schmidtberg's Avatar
 

TeKBoT, what are the sizes of your room?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7365
Lives for gear
 

Headphones to go with Amphion:

There was some discussion a while ago about headphones that would match up well with Amphion speakers.

This is just a heads-up about what might be the best bargain in headphone amplifiers that I have seen: (I have no affiliation with this in any way.)

S.M.S.L SP200 THX AAA-888 Balanced Headphone Amplifier with XLR RCA Input

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

There are a number of reviews out there, and I am here to say that the hype is real. The one down side is that even in low gain mode, when feeding it with typical full level xlr from a DAC or console, you barely need to turn up the volume control on the headphone amp. (even when running it in low gain mode).

It has made all of my headphones come alive. None of them still match up well with the Amphions, but they now get closer, and that's ok with me.

Current price is $289.00 US.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7366
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmidtberg View Post
TeKBoT, what are the sizes of your room?
6m x 4.5m
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7367
Gear Nut
 
schmidtberg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeKBoT View Post
6m x 4.5m
in which program did you measure and with which microphone? are the presented graphics corrected (such as sonarworks)?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7368
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeKBoT View Post
I've attached a couple of measurements below.
One 15's with AMP100
One 18's with AMP100
Argon 7LS with AMP500

Never had the TWO15's but the ONE18's do look good up there, they were at least around 2.2m away from me at the time of measurement.

The ONE15's have a big drop after 10kHz but i believe bad positioning was the culprit at that time.
The rolloff above 10k in your One15 graph looks very similar to what my Trinnov shows with my Two15's. This has been the same in multiple rooms, with different desk, positioning , etc.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7369
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmidtberg View Post
in which program did you measure and with which microphone? are the presented graphics corrected (such as sonarworks)?
Used the calibrated Sonarworks XREF20 mic,
One15/18 measured in REW with 1/12 smoothing.
Argon 7LS measured in Sonarworks without correction.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7370
Gear Nut
 
schmidtberg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeKBoT View Post
Used the calibrated Sonarworks XREF20 mic,
One15/18 measured in REW with 1/12 smoothing.
Argon 7LS measured in Sonarworks without correction.
Do you trust the measurements of this microphone?
Can I see a photo of your control room?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7371
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmidtberg View Post
Do you trust the measurements of this microphone?
Can I see a photo of your control room?
Each XREF20 mic has it's own calibration file to flatten the freq response so yes, i trust it.
I'll send you a pic via message.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7372
Gear Nut
 
schmidtberg's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeKBoT View Post
Each XREF20 mic has it's own calibration file to flatten the freq response so yes, i trust it.
I'll send you a pic via message.
Thank you, I answered in PM.
Old 1 week ago
  #7373
Lives for gear
 
Lupez's Avatar
One 18 + Amp 100 = perfect match.
Much better than Amp 500 which is fatiguing.
Now let's hear the new Amp 700.
Old 1 week ago
  #7374
Lives for gear
 
Shaggy2039's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupez View Post
One 18 + Amp 100 = perfect match.
Much better than Amp 500 which is fatiguing.
Now let's hear the new Amp 700.
I'm 99% sure I'm ordering the Amp 700 and Two 15's next week (going to demo the One 18's first before fully committing). The nice thing about the 700 is that you can change the input sensitivity to match the speaker. This plus the combination with the new Class A buffer stage should really help with ear fatigue.
Old 1 week ago
  #7375
Lives for gear
 
Lupez's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy2039 View Post
I'm 99% sure I'm ordering the Amp 700 and Two 15's next week (going to demo the One 18's first before fully committing). The nice thing about the 700 is that you can change the input sensitivity to match the speaker. This plus the combination with the new Class A buffer stage should really help with ear fatigue.
What bugs me about the Amp 700 is that for it to sound as loud as the Amp100 you will have to reduce the sensitivity so much that you are basically reducing the resolution of the signal....
Also I am still wondering where the sensitivity switch is located.
Keep us updated on the results.
Old 1 week ago
  #7376
Quote:
Originally Posted by dankin View Post
The rolloff above 10k in your One15 graph looks very similar to what my Trinnov shows with my Two15's. This has been the same in multiple rooms, with different desk, positioning , etc.
I've found this same thing with my One18's.
Old 1 week ago
  #7377
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

I think the clarity in the mix that mainly comes from solid phase behaviour and the openness that comes from the low crossover point is making many people think Amphions have more actual top end than they really have, coming from other speakers. Feels a little glaring at first. And then it becomes the new normal. Not sure what happens after that, not arrived there yet.
Old 1 week ago
  #7378
Lives for gear
 
Shaggy2039's Avatar
Amphion Two 15 impressions V3..

After about a week or so with these monitors, I can safely say they're the best I've heard in my space. This includes my 5+ years with the Focal Twins (and recently added Sub 6), the Genelec 8351, 41 and 31, ATC SCM25, Adam S3X-H and the KH 310's. There is simply no comparison in my book. None of the aforementioned monitors are as fast, punchy or inspiring to work on than these Two 15's. I keep finding myself using those same adjectives over and over to describe these monitors but it's hard to put in words how great they are. The resolution is just incredible all the way up and down the spectrum. If I turn them down and work at a lower volume I still feel like I'm getting a "main" monitor presentation just due to the insane front to back depth and the perspective on the whole mix.

From a composition+mixing standpoint I don't see anything coming close to these in this price point. I'm probably going to add a sub that will compliment them but they honestly just feel so fukkking good right now as is without the sub. Zero room correction, by the way. Haven't even considered using Sonarwork or anything else. They're also not very fussy with room placement like most monitors either.

Lastly, one of the things I love so much about them is that they encourage you to use saturation, distortion and compression in a pleasing way to add separation to the elements in your tracks. I can't really explain why this is or what they're doing to suggest that I add these effects to the mix. The Two 15's want you to soften certain frequencies while at the same time tell you to increase the presence of these elements in your tracks. The end result is that you get tons of separation and yet everything feels contained and cohesive.
Old 1 week ago
  #7379
Gear Head
 

After a few weeks with the ProAc SM100, here’s my initial thoughts on how it compares to the One15. Not that I think this is a very relevant comparison. To me it seems they are designed for different purposes. According to ProAc my monitors should be about halfway broken in by now (the way they opened up the first week was substantial).

My quest for monitors stemmed from my problems with hyperacusis and tinnitus. I won’t get into it here but in short the reason I passed on the One15 was that no matter how much I liked them my ears didn’t seem to be able to tolerate them most of the time. So I started looking for the softest sounding, least fatiguing monitors I could find. I considered Quested and ATC monitors and finally decided on the SM100 without being able to hear any of them..

The SM100 doesn’t “compete” with my tinnitus, the sound they put out rather feels separate from it which enables me to enjoy music even on my bad days, sometimes even ignoring my tinnitus (an intrusive 14 kHz whine makes musical enjoyment a challenge). I was not able to use the One15 like that. Apart from that there seems to be no difference in how the monitors aggravate my problems which was a bit surprising after reading complaints of fatigue from One15 users. The problem is my ears not either of these monitors.

Take everything I say with a grain of salt. I want to make clear that I’m not a professional mixer and I need monitors that work for composing, tracking, mixing and casual listening (including vinyl). I did not find that in the One15, and why would I? They are obviously pure mixing tools. The SM100 is a much more versatile speaker but I would not choose it above the One15 for just mixing. I guess comparing the SM100 to the One18 would be a more relevant comparison, but I’ve only heard the One15. The One18 seems more similar to the SM100 in size and bass response.

Amphion offers a complete package for their products including cables. Having looked at other alternatives, I’d call it an affordable package for what you get. Yes, even the cables. With the ProAc SM100 you’re on your own. ProAc has not laid out a plan for how to get a good sound out of these monitors, the manual even states that they don’t recommend a specific type of cable since the user is expected to use cables as a way to tailor the sound of the speakers to their preference.

I’m currently driving the SM100 with Hypex NC400 which is the cheapest amp I felt I could get away with. I guess it’s pretty similar to the Amp100 in terms of neutrality. It’s safe to say that even though I’ve already exceeded the price of the One15 package, I still have to spend a lot more to get the most out of the SM100. They are not in the same price range as the One15 package.

There are some obvious differences when comparing these monitors. I can’t really explain it in technical terms.. The One15 felt invisible, a bit clinical, had a very good but “hollow” stereo image, very detailed, and unfortunately for me fatiguing and a bit harsh. Unbelievably good in general. It felt much more direct and faster than the SM100.

The SM100 feels musical, relaxed, lush, textured, “distant”. It’s like taking a step back from a technical mindset and just hearing the music for what it is. It paints a much more coherent picture that invites you to hear the music as a whole rather than focusing on details. For me personally at least. The SM100 has me thinking more about the emotional impact of the music: is my vocal performance beautiful? Is this something I would like to put on and listen to if someone else had made it? Do I have a great guitar tone? It simplifies music for me. It’s the kind of monitor that I would want to hear my album through when it’s time to decide if it’s finished or not.

With the One15 I was thinking more about how easy it was to EQ the vocals, how detailed everything sounded, how easy it is to make everything audible and so on. I got lost in details but didn’t see the big picture as clearly. They made me feel better at mixing and arranging than I actually am, at least judging by how the same mixes sound on the SM100. As a relatively novice mixer I realised that my mixes weren’t finished just because I could hear everything clearly through the One15. Not a fault of the One15 but of mine, my music has way too much going on at all times and the One15 encouraged that.

The SM100 has an ability to spit out certain mixes. Great mixes sound better than ever, but overly bright or otherwise poor mixes are unlistenable. This isn’t to say that my SM100 are able to objectively judge this, since some of my favourite impeccably mixed albums that sound great on every other source I’ve heard them on can be abrasive enough to feel unlistenable on the SM100. Not sure why this is but probably in part due to the amps. I doubt the Hypex NC400 is what ProAc had in mind to use with these monitors. Then again, they probably didn’t have a tube amp in mind either since these are marketed as studio monitors.

The SM100 has markedly less detail compared to the One15. It’s night and day. Especially at lower volume. The One15 allowed me to hear every turn of a knob even at around 60 dB. I heard my plugins like never before. Multiple busy guitar tracks were clearly audible at all times in addition to everything else going on in the mix. The One15 sounded about the same regardless of volume.

But the relative lack of detail is also what allows the SM100 to do what it does. Though it makes it hard to listen very quietly when I’m mixing or listening critically. The bass also needs a certain amount of volume to break away from weak and murky territory (about 65-70 dB perhaps?). The One15 had a tight and clear bass always, the SM100 doesn’t. Not in my poor room anyway. From what I’ve read this could be because the SM100 is front ported and the One15 is sealed, so I expect monitors like ATC SCM12 to perform more similar to the One15 in this regard. The SM100 has a deeper and beefier low end compared to the One15.

An interesting comparison is listening to birdsong or other nature sounds which I do a lot. The One15 made me feel like I was in a digital construct imitating nature, utterly unenjoyable. The SM100 literally sounds like I just opened a window to the forest outside. It’s almost uncanny. Similarly, just watching a movie or listening to a podcast on the SM100 feels more immersive since spoken voices have a very natural quality. Definitely more versatile speakers than the One15s and I can see why they are found in many domestic settings.

I listened to both of these monitors in an untreated room (working on it). It was immediately clear that the SM100 will require some form of room treatment and more attention to positioning. When working with the One15 on low levels, I did not feel that they needed that. Maybe I’m not equipped to judge this but it really does feel like the Amphion selling point of “doesn’t interact with your room” is valid. If they do that better than say ATC SCM12 is another matter.

I’ll have to get some more distance between me and the SM100, the One15 worked great in a close nearfield position (ears 1m from the monitors). The SM100 sounds better when positioned further away, but I need to get a new desk or some floor stands to do that. Similarly, I feel the stereo image leaves something to be desired but I’m sure that has to do with positioning rather than the SM100 itself. The SM100 seems to have wider dispersion which is useful in a domestic setting.

I don’t see why anyone with healthy ears would prefer to mix on the SM100 instead of One15/One18. And I don’t see how anyone would prefer the One15 for tracking, arranging and general listening. I think they complement each other very well. And yes, I still want the One15 or One12 in addition to the SM100… We’ll see what happens.

In closing, these monitors are quite different from each other. Would I like to mix on Amphions a few hours here and there? Absolutely. They gave me something the SM100 doesn’t seem to be able to. Would I like to listen to music on the One15 every day for the next decade, or use them as my sole window into creating music? Absolutely not.

Very niche post but I hope it helps someone down the line through the search engine.
Old 1 week ago
  #7380
Gear Maniac
 
Oskari J.'s Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavyMantra View Post
text
When you mention your room is untreated it got me thinking. I believe a more controlled room might help your ear problems, even with the Amphions. It's heavy for the ears/brain to interpret a speakers information in messy acoustics. Especially if you have reflections in the mid and treble area, interfering with the image.

Another thought is that the One18 sounds kind of like a cross between the SM100 and the One15. There's a definite difference in presentation between the One15 and the One18, where the One18 is more full, distant and shows the complete picture. Also, perhaps the Amphions would suit you better with a softer amp than digital amps, like the Adcom or the like.
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