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Amphion... Beautiful
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7231
mpr
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownSideUp View Post
Have you compared extended Amphions with the ATCs ?
Yes, I have mastered countless songs on the Two18+Baseone25+Trinnov combo (in 2 different rooms) and I am now about 200 songs in on the ATC SCM110ASL Pros. They both have a strong midrange signature that you work against, which made the transition from Amphion to ATC easier than I thought possible. Some people love this approach of mixing to a sound, while others who do not will likely prefer PMC, PSI, Genelec (DSP) or 8C, for their ultra linear and transparent presentation.

As far as differences between the Amphion and ATCs, the biggest to my ear is in the upper mids where ATCs are smoother and more defined. This becomes more and more obvious as you increase SPLs. A harsh mix on the Amphions will hurt you when cranked. A harsh mix on the ATCs will just sound annoyingly modern, but wont rip your head off. They both indicate well, but the Amphions more so IMO.

The low mids are surprisingly similar to me. When the low mids are too much on the ATCs I notice a general collapse of the image from top to bottom. When the low mids are too much on the Amphions they might bark or fart or find some obvious way to get your attention. Trusting both speaker in this critical range results in thick robust sounding mixes with plenty of meat to hold up the energy above. I love them both for this quality, which is rare among all the speakers I have tried over the years.

A categorical low end comparison is impossible because low end response will vary widely between rooms, but in my room the low end of the Amphion stack is bigger sounding than the ATCs at equal sub levels. Bigger as in the sound is hitting me from what feels like 360 degrees on the Amphions, where the ATC low end is better connected up thru the low mids, but a touch smaller sounding as a result.

While the ATCs may not have the same big sub hit of the Trinnov'd Amphions, they clearly perform and measure flat to 30hz (-3db at 25hz) without any woofer needed in this room. I originally wired the room for future woofers (just in case) but I know now that they aren't needed when the soffitting is done correctly. The low end is easy to read across every genre, just not as punchy as the 8Cs or as big as the Amphions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karloff70 View Post
The Amphions have an opinion.
lol yes, and I wonder if Anssi had this in mind at the start...
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7232
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpr View Post
Yes, I have mastered countless songs on the Two18+Baseone25+Trinnov combo (in 2 different rooms) and I am now about 200 songs in on the ATC SCM110ASL Pros. They both have a strong midrange signature that you work against, which made the transition from Amphion to ATC easier than I thought possible. Some people love this approach of mixing to a sound, while others who do not will likely prefer PMC, PSI, Genelec (DSP) or 8C, for their ultra linear and transparent presentation.

As far as differences between the Amphion and ATCs, the biggest to my ear is in the upper mids where ATCs are smoother and more defined. This becomes more and more obvious as you increase SPLs. A harsh mix on the Amphions will hurt you when cranked. A harsh mix on the ATCs will just sound annoyingly modern, but wont rip your head off. They both indicate well, but the Amphions more so IMO.

The low mids are surprisingly similar to me. When the low mids are too much on the ATCs I notice a general collapse of the image from top to bottom. When the low mids are too much on the Amphions they might bark or fart or find some obvious way to get your attention. Trusting both speaker in this critical range results in thick robust sounding mixes with plenty of meat to hold up the energy above. I love them both for this quality, which is rare among all the speakers I have tried over the years.

A categorical low end comparison is impossible because low end response will vary widely between rooms, but in my room the low end of the Amphion stack is bigger sounding than the ATCs at equal sub levels. Bigger as in the sound is hitting me from what feels like 360 degrees on the Amphions, where the ATC low end is better connected up thru the low mids, but a touch smaller sounding as a result.

While the ATCs may not have the same big sub hit of the Trinnov'd Amphions, they clearly perform and measure flat to 30hz (-3db at 25hz) without any woofer needed in this room. I originally wired the room for future woofers (just in case) but I know now that they aren't needed when the soffitting is done correctly. The low end is easy to read across every genre, just not as punchy as the 8Cs or as big as the Amphions.

lol yes, and I wonder if Anssi had this in mind at the start...

do you have the lastest ATC tweeters in ?
getting them soffit and reaching -3db at 25hz is amazing!
So it says a lot about the Amphion systems, thanks for your input.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7233
mpr
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownSideUp View Post
do you have the lastest ATC tweeters in ?
getting them soffit and reaching -3db at 25hz is amazing!
So it says a lot about the Amphion systems, thanks for your input.
Yes latest ATC tweeters. And the Amphion system was definitely getting some help from Trinnov down low - 250hz and below - where it ironed things into a usable curve.

The ATCs needed adjustment too, but I did that in analog using the three ATC triamp level pots between the two crossovers in conjunction with the LF boost pot. I kept measuring the response in REW between tweaks until my preferred target curve was met and haven't looked back since.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7234
Lives for gear
 
JblKid95's Avatar
 

@ mpr your post is why I find ATC WAY too expensive tbh... and you’re spot on.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7235
mpr
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JblKid95 View Post
@ mpr your post is why I find ATC WAY too expensive tbh... and you’re spot on.
I have always agreed with that and thought ATC were too expensive, but at $20k this particular model, SMC 110ASL Pro, is worth every penny IMO.

I cannot say the same is true for other ATC models, bigger or smaller, but compared to PMC or Genelec I think the ATC 110 pricing is reasonable. Especially if you prefer the sound of ATC and know how to make them sing professionally.

Also, add up the costs of a Two18+Baseone25+Trinnov system and you are getting very close.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7236
Lives for gear
 
JblKid95's Avatar
 

I like the listening experience on atc. One of my favs
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7237
Amp 700 coming soon

Old 3 weeks ago
  #7238
Lives for gear
 
Shaggy2039's Avatar
I had a chance to hear the PMC Two Two 8 against the Amphion Two 18's (and also the Two 15 but that wasn't a fair comparison). The PMC's outshined the Amphions in almost every way. I had actually never even heard of these new PMC's before, either.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7239
Lives for gear
 
myles's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy2039 View Post
I had a chance to hear the PMC Two Two 8 against the Amphion Two 18's (and also the Two 15 but that wasn't a fair comparison). The PMC's outshined the Amphions in almost every way. I had actually never even heard of these new PMC's before, either.
But did you actually work on the PMCs? The whole point about Amphions (for me) is that they're an incredibly useful tool. I don't use them for listening.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7240
Lives for gear
 
Shaggy2039's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by myles View Post
But did you actually work on the PMCs? The whole point about Amphions (for me) is that they're an incredibly useful tool. I don't use them for listening.
I didn't take em' back to my studio, no. Right now I'm trying to listen to as many monitors as I can before going through the trouble of demoing in my room. Next up will be the ATC SCM 25's, KH310 and Adam S3X-H's.

I compose for film and TV and the monitors have to straddle a middle ground of being fun to write on, yet accurate to mix on. The PMC's seemed like they'd have both of these whereas the Amphion felt more like a mix tool only. It's part of the reason I doubt I'd want to write on ATC's....

I played some modern pop records that I think are benchmarks for pushing speakers - namely the new Billie Eilish album and stuff like "Psycho" from Post Malone which Manny mixed. All this stuff has really dialed in, but massive low end and at the same time have really detailed vocals so they're great to reference. The PMC's were very linear on the low end and didn't flinch when I bumped it. Overall the PMC's just felt like they were showing more information across the board than the Amphions. The presentation was bigger, but more importantly just sounded the way these records are supposed to sound. It wasn't lacking in any area.

I think the Amphions with the subs could be crazy good. The problem is that I don't have that in my budget at the moment for that setup.
Old 3 weeks ago
  #7241
Gear Head
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy2039 View Post
I had a chance to hear the PMC Two Two 8 against the Amphion Two 18's (and also the Two 15 but that wasn't a fair comparison). The PMC's outshined the Amphions in almost every way. I had actually never even heard of these new PMC's before, either.
What amps were the Amphions driven by?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7242
Quote:
Originally Posted by myles View Post
I kid, I kid...

Somewhere in this thread, someone recommended a Dynaudio 9S... or 10S?

But my room might be too small for any sub. I'd probably end up needing to put it where I need to walk.
I'm interested in the Dynaudio 9S too, or Neumann KH750 but I wouldn't need the dsp in it (good thing is the price just dropped).

any opinion on the 9s ?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7243
Lives for gear
 
JblKid95's Avatar
 

@ Shaggy2039 I know we had talked about several monitor set ups, but don’t make any decisions without working on them. Just listening will 9/10 fool you into making the wrong decision.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7244
Lives for gear
 

Anyone got any info on the new amp 700? I read etal has stopped making the anaview amp cards used in the 100 and 500. Wonder what’s in the new one. Hypex maybe?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7245
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpr View Post
Yes, I have mastered countless songs on the Two18+Baseone25+Trinnov combo (in 2 different rooms) and I am now about 200 songs in on the ATC SCM110ASL Pros. They both have a strong midrange signature that you work against, which made the transition from Amphion to ATC easier than I thought possible. Some people love this approach of mixing to a sound, while others who do not will likely prefer PMC, PSI, Genelec (DSP) or 8C, for their ultra linear and transparent presentation.

As far as differences between the Amphion and ATCs, the biggest to my ear is in the upper mids where ATCs are smoother and more defined. This becomes more and more obvious as you increase SPLs. A harsh mix on the Amphions will hurt you when cranked. A harsh mix on the ATCs will just sound annoyingly modern, but wont rip your head off. They both indicate well, but the Amphions more so IMO.

The low mids are surprisingly similar to me. When the low mids are too much on the ATCs I notice a general collapse of the image from top to bottom. When the low mids are too much on the Amphions they might bark or fart or find some obvious way to get your attention. Trusting both speaker in this critical range results in thick robust sounding mixes with plenty of meat to hold up the energy above. I love them both for this quality, which is rare among all the speakers I have tried over the years.

A categorical low end comparison is impossible because low end response will vary widely between rooms, but in my room the low end of the Amphion stack is bigger sounding than the ATCs at equal sub levels. Bigger as in the sound is hitting me from what feels like 360 degrees on the Amphions, where the ATC low end is better connected up thru the low mids, but a touch smaller sounding as a result.

While the ATCs may not have the same big sub hit of the Trinnov'd Amphions, they clearly perform and measure flat to 30hz (-3db at 25hz) without any woofer needed in this room. I originally wired the room for future woofers (just in case) but I know now that they aren't needed when the soffitting is done correctly. The low end is easy to read across every genre, just not as punchy as the 8Cs or as big as the Amphions.

lol yes, and I wonder if Anssi had this in mind at the start...
Have you or anyone else here compared Amphion to PMC ib1 ? I'm tempted to add the subs the ma One18 and sell the IB1s, so save some room and get used to the Amphion and stick with them.


For now the Ib1 remind me of ATC ( give me another view) and compared to the ATC have a really deep AND punchy low end, yet still dry and contain it's absolutely
delicious and coherent with the rest of the image. I might regret them when I move to a bigger room.

but in my small room I almost want to get rid of them and stick with the Amphion as being "my reality" with or even without the subs ( because I heard they are not adding a ton of definition but are definitely not cheap to get).


I'm curious if anyone has done Ib1 vs Amphion + Base one ?
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7246
mpr
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by DownSideUp View Post
Have you or anyone else here compared Amphion to PMC ib1 ?
No I have not compared those. I have very little ear time on PMC speakers, but the few times I've heard them I did not connect with them like I did when I first heard Amphions or ATCs. Definitely loud, punchy and linear sounding though, and I know plenty of respectable engineers that delivery consistent and incredible work on them.
Old 2 weeks ago
  #7247
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpr View Post
No I have not compared those. I have very little ear time on PMC speakers, but the few times I've heard them I did not connect with them like I did when I first heard Amphions or ATCs. Definitely loud, punchy and linear sounding though, and I know plenty of respectable engineers that delivery consistent and incredible work on them.
Ok thanks! they are just huge in my room, with stands and also Amphion with their stands. The Ib1 are like ATC with a more relaxed, normal midrange, and that's probably less of a "stellar mid" quality but it gels the whole design just great. superb bass.

I'm probably just settling for a pair, i love the Amphion One18 ! cheers
Old 1 week ago
  #7248
Lives for gear
 
PhilE's Avatar
Not with the subs but have spent quite a bit of time with One12, One18, Two18 and IB1.
I own One12 and IB1. I am considering moving the IB1 to a different room that is more for listening and getting Two18 for my mix room as I find the mid detail in the Amphion makes me work faster and smarter.
In short, both excellent and different from each other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DownSideUp View Post
Have you or anyone else here compared Amphion to PMC ib1 ? I'm tempted to add the subs the ma One18 and sell the IB1s, so save some room and get used to the Amphion and stick with them.


For now the Ib1 remind me of ATC ( give me another view) and compared to the ATC have a really deep AND punchy low end, yet still dry and contain it's absolutely
delicious and coherent with the rest of the image. I might regret them when I move to a bigger room.

but in my small room I almost want to get rid of them and stick with the Amphion as being "my reality" with or even without the subs ( because I heard they are not adding a ton of definition but are definitely not cheap to get).


I'm curious if anyone has done Ib1 vs Amphion + Base one ?
Old 1 week ago
  #7249
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilE View Post
Not with the subs but have spent quite a bit of time with One12, One18, Two18 and IB1.
I own One12 and IB1. I am considering moving the IB1 to a different room that is more for listening and getting Two18 for my mix room as I find the mid detail in the Amphion makes me work faster and smarter.
In short, both excellent and different from each other.
Thx ! indeed they both are excellent. only the IB1 would love a much bigger room than mine still I'm pretty happy to have both.
Old 1 week ago
  #7250
Anyone going for the new Amp700?
Old 6 days ago
  #7251
Lives for gear
 
turk sanchez's Avatar
...just sold my one18's and amp100/cables after 4 years. As awesome as they were, I found that they were too much for my room (14x11x9 fully treated). The sweet spot seemed to be sitting at a distance of 48", and I could hear too much of the low mid/bass clouding the (fully treated) room sitting that far back. I had to sit too close to the rear wall too. I tried sitting closer, played w/positioning forever (w/room EQ wizard and the Umik-1).

They were also not an easy sell and took a long time and had to come down on price a lot (3 grand for everything after about 6 months and only 2 or 3 emails of interest).

This stuff isn't cheap ~ so I just wanted to share my experience. I found Amphion on this thread after all. In a medium sized room, if a home studio the living room or library etc, they would be incredible. Don't think they are the right fit for a bedroom studio or anything like that.

Just one guys opinion. Hope that helps.
Old 6 days ago
  #7252
mpr
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by turk sanchez View Post
...just sold my one18's and amp100/cables after 4 years. As awesome as they were, I found that they were too much for my room (14x11x9 fully treated). The sweet spot seemed to be sitting at a distance of 48", and I could hear too much of the low mid/bass clouding the (fully treated) room sitting that far back. I had to sit too close to the rear wall too. I tried sitting closer, played w/positioning forever (w/room EQ wizard and the Umik-1).

They were also not an easy sell and took a long time and had to come down on price a lot (3 grand for everything after about 6 months and only 2 or 3 emails of interest).

This stuff isn't cheap ~ so I just wanted to share my experience. I found Amphion on this thread after all. In a medium sized room, if a home studio the living room or library etc, they would be incredible. Don't think they are the right fit for a bedroom studio or anything like that.

Just one guys opinion. Hope that helps.
Sounds like your room needed one15s or one12s (less energy output + closer listening). You are likely going to have the same problem with any speaker (Amphion or not) throwing out that much energy, since your back wall is very close and bouncing audio to your ear too early. Can you try firing the speakers along the 14' length?
Old 6 days ago
  #7253
Lives for gear
 
turk sanchez's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpr View Post
Sounds like your room needed one15s or one12s (less energy output + closer listening). You are likely going to have the same problem with any speaker (Amphion or not) throwing out that much energy, since your back wall is very close and bouncing audio to your ear too early. Can you try firing the speakers along the 14' length?
You're absolutely right about any larger speakers having the same issue. I was firing along the 14' lenght. I sat 38% from the front wall at first (a year or so), then switched to 38% from rear wall. Definitely dig Amphion! Agreed the one15 may have been better probably (or one 12).
Old 6 days ago
  #7254
Lives for gear
 
turk sanchez's Avatar
...room pic.
Attached Thumbnails
Amphion... Beautiful-img_20190127_204736.jpg  
Old 5 days ago
  #7255
Gear Guru
 
Karloff70's Avatar
 

I think most people 'get' the one18 wrong, as they LOOK like 'normal near fields'. But they like to sit more like midfields and much further apart than the box size suggests to bring their best image. So yeah, sitting too close to them and having them tight doesn't bring you their goodies, and if the room can't accommodate them being further away they are not what is needed.

As mpr said, should have gone with one15's. They completely rule in a room that size.
Old 5 days ago
  #7256
Quote:
Originally Posted by turk sanchez View Post
...just sold my one18's and amp100/cables after 4 years. As awesome as they were, I found that they were too much for my room (14x11x9 fully treated). The sweet spot seemed to be sitting at a distance of 48", and I could hear too much of the low mid/bass clouding the (fully treated) room sitting that far back. I had to sit too close to the rear wall too. I tried sitting closer, played w/positioning forever (w/room EQ wizard and the Umik-1).

They were also not an easy sell and took a long time and had to come down on price a lot (3 grand for everything after about 6 months and only 2 or 3 emails of interest).

This stuff isn't cheap ~ so I just wanted to share my experience. I found Amphion on this thread after all. In a medium sized room, if a home studio the living room or library etc, they would be incredible. Don't think they are the right fit for a bedroom studio or anything like that.

Just one guys opinion. Hope that helps.
Whoever landed everything for 3 grand hit the fookin jackpot, dang.
Old 5 days ago
  #7257
Here for the gear
 

Can anyone recommend a sub to go with my one15s? I was looking at the Eve TS108 but they seem to be discontinued. Budget is £1000 / $1300 / €1200

I liked the Eves as they came with a remote where you could mute the sub. Any recommendations?
Old 5 days ago
  #7258
Lives for gear
 
turk sanchez's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by ripripstabstab View Post
Whoever landed everything for 3 grand hit the fookin jackpot, dang.
Definitely a tough sell. Had them on reverb and an Austin musicians group on FB, on Craigslist (how they sold). Took maybe 6 months to move (for $3500)...then came down to $3k. The only offer I even got from anyone.

I sold my Michelangelo in 2 hours for a fraction less then I paid new by contrast.

I was glad to sell on CL since no fees or shipping hassle.

I get the feeling people are more paranoid about buying used monitors. Not as "indestructible" as other stuff like compressors, preamps etc.
Old 5 days ago
  #7259
Lives for gear
 
lowkey's Avatar
 

I also think Amphions are quite a niche brand when compared to some of the wider known names, plus the fact they are passive rules them out for many people (thinking hobbiests and those with compact setups).

I’m have a similar problem moving my Metric Halo interface. I think there are many who have never heard of them before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by turk sanchez View Post
Definitely a tough sell. Had them on reverb and an Austin musicians group on FB, on Craigslist (how they sold). Took maybe 6 months to move (for $3500)...then came down to $3k. The only offer I even got from anyone.

I sold my Michelangelo in 2 hours for a fraction less then I paid new by contrast.

I was glad to sell on CL since no fees or shipping hassle.

I get the feeling people are more paranoid about buying used monitors. Not as "indestructible" as other stuff like compressors, preamps etc.
Old 5 days ago
  #7260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdee View Post
Can anyone recommend a sub to go with my one15s? I was looking at the Eve TS108 but they seem to be discontinued. Budget is £1000 / $1300 / €1200

I liked the Eves as they came with a remote where you could mute the sub. Any recommendations?
I added a pair of Rhythmik Audio F12's to my One 18's. It is a remarkable full-range system now and the 18's already extended down pretty low in my room. The Rhythmiks are servo controlled, sealed, and very full-featured especially at the price point. They also have 8" subs which might better for the 15's. Worth a look.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/index.html
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