The No.1 Website for Pro Audio
 Search This Thread  Search This Forum  Search Reviews  Search Gear Database  Search Gear for sale  Search Gearslutz Go Advanced
Best AD/DA converters Digital Converters
Old 11th August 2014
  #91
Gear Maniac
 
Flagfoot's Avatar
Yes JCF ad8 and latte meet your requirements, but be aware that the da8v DAC does not meet your requirements of transparent and invisible so configure your ad-da channels accordingly. Not sure what your channel counts are?

Harrison makes converters that meet your requirements and are high-density if you need high channel counts.
Old 11th August 2014
  #92
Lives for gear
 
akai612's Avatar
 

One vote for: forsselltech.com
Old 11th August 2014
  #93
Gear Maniac
 
IUnknown's Avatar
Hey,

you may have a look on the Altmann DAC and ADC. I know one guy using them and he swears on them.
Old 12th August 2014
  #94
Deleted User
Guest
I agree with the few folks who said this is splitting hairs.

Just because I like my Lynx Hilo doesn't mean it's any better than an Apogee Symphony.

Yes Prism is fantastic if you can afford it but all of these high end converters will allow you to do great work. Find one that has all the I/O you need! Also tech support is super important. Recently I had some issues with my Lynx, but was able to call in and talk to someone right away who resolved the issue. Inquire about repair costs and turn around time as well!
Old 13th August 2014
  #95
Gear Nut
 

Daft Punk's RAM Grammy Best Engineered Album was done on Lynx Auroras.

Go figure. Ultimately, good gear won't make up for poor engineering.
Old 13th August 2014
  #96
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by fevo View Post
Daft Punk's RAM Grammy Best Engineered Album was done on Lynx Auroras.

Go figure. Ultimately, good gear won't make up for poor engineering.
Now that's for sure.

Said another way--great engineering won't be ruined or marred by ANY of the modern converters available today.
Old 13th August 2014
  #97
Lives for gear
 
bcgood's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by fevo View Post
Daft Punk's RAM Grammy Best Engineered Album was done on Lynx Auroras.

Go figure. Ultimately, good gear won't make up for poor engineering.
Agreed although it was originally tracked to tape on most of the tracks and then transferred to digital or straight to the Auroras in some cases. Also, the Aurora was clocked to a 10M
Old 13th August 2014
  #98
Lives for gear
 
Oldone's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcgood View Post
Also, the Aurora was clocked to a 10M
Which takes the conversation to a whole new direction.
Old 13th August 2014
  #99
Lives for gear
 
Plush's Avatar
Myth Bust--Beware of a "Gearslutz Fact."
Nope--either the clock is totally correct and absolutely accurate or you won't get any sound. External clock does not make a converter box more accurate or sound better.

If you are clocking 10 different boxes--some converters, some effects, etc., then a distributed master clock might help.
Old 13th August 2014
  #100
Lives for gear
 
bcgood's Avatar
 

I'm going to have to disagree with you Plush. I've had the pleasure of doing some listening experiments with and without the 10M on an Avid HD system and I could definitely hear an improvement with the 10M engaged.
Old 14th August 2014
  #101
I'm skeptical of claims of different external clocks improving the sound, and I've read that it's best to use the internal clock on AD converters when possible. I've thought I heard differences while flicking the switches between different external clocks too, but then usually get confused when I do it blind and have yet to prove that the changes I think I hear actually translate to the physical/digital recorded file.

I also do not believe the differences in high-end converters are as big as some claim. If it could be shown scientifically that a particular converter was adding bass, high-end, or any other noticeable artifacts after a few passes, then that converter would most likely be quickly dismissed as a serious mastering converter. I believe there are definitely differences but they are very subtle and not like the differences in preamps, compressors, mics, etc. However, the way in which a converter clips "when pushed" could in fact be a good reason to buy one converter over another if a person is looking to get something loud for those clients that think loudness is a good thing, or just doesn't want the occasional peak to be very noticeable (don't know anyone that wants peaks to be noticeable). Sometimes a little clipping is better than extra compression or limiting for getting that loud level with as little damage as possible. But I agree that a good engineer should be able to get world class results with just about any decent converter on the market today.
Old 14th August 2014
  #102
Lives for gear
 
Oldone's Avatar
Would love to hear the 10M but alas neither the time or the money. I will say, using a reference classical track there is a difference in the sound between Orion 32 and Lynx 16 converters. So there is a difference. One that could probably be compensated for but it's there.
Old 14th August 2014
  #103
Lives for gear
 
shelterr's Avatar
 

I find it incredible that people still debate whether or not clocking is real. I've owned and compared nice convertors, the clocks sound different and some are better than others. I've got countless files to prove it. Print a mix through outboard gear. Change the clock. Print it again. The files are different sounding. Debate over. It's just that easy. If you bounce the files ITB, there won't be a sound difference...which is where I think this mythology stems from.

People can debate which sound they like best all day for all I care. But pretending like there's no difference between the clock in a Fireface and a Prism is just ignorant.
Old 14th August 2014
  #104
Lives for gear
 
bcgood's Avatar
 

Speaking of gearslutz lore, people really need to stop posting about nulling files and how that proves there isn't a difference between two things. That's like saying, "I compared two apples that where wrongly sampled in the first place and sure enough there's no difference!" and thus "If you're hearing things its not real!" Um no, go back and take your science, psychology and sociology class again please because your are sorely mistaken.

This is a good example of people being just smart enough to know a little bit about the scientific method but then conducting the experiment wrong and then claiming everyone is wrong that disagrees with them.
Old 14th August 2014
  #105
Gear Head
 

Does anyone know of any vintage, terrible quality ad/da converters out there? I think it's better not to explain why I ask of this. I can't seem to find anything by searching online.
Old 14th August 2014
  #106
Gear Addict
 
firubbi's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman View Post
Don't spend too much on gear - make your wife a nice present and donate the rest to those who
need it more than you.

Cheers.
shaman
yes home minister goes 1st then Eq>Compressor>Mic_Pre>Monitor>AD/DA etc ....

btw apogee symphoy was another good ad/da for mac [ i still wish someday they will do driver for windows :( ]
Old 14th August 2014
  #107
Here for the gear
 

Guys after all the discussions and sharing of useful information I've decided to go with the Prism's ADA 8XR! I wan't to thank y'all and I'm gratefull for all the knowledge y'all shared. Now next I need to shortlist which preamp am I going to go with. I'll start a new thread for that. Thanks again for all the help. Bye.

Regards,
Clyde Yung D'souza
Old 14th August 2014
  #108
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tranio View Post
Does anyone know of any vintage, terrible quality ad/da converters out there? I think it's better not to explain why I ask of this. I can't seem to find anything by searching online.
I've got a couple in storage that I swear by. .. best boat anchors ever. ..pm if interested.
Old 14th August 2014
  #109
Lives for gear
 
loujudson's Avatar
Sorry, I gave away my original blue Mbox... but I have someone else's in a case in storage. Didn't have the heart to tell the guy it won't work an more on modrun computerboxes...

How about an ADA8000 which can still be had new for $179...
Old 14th August 2014
  #110
Lives for gear
 
matyas's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tranio View Post
Does anyone know of any vintage, terrible quality ad/da converters out there? I think it's better not to explain why I ask of this. I can't seem to find anything by searching online.
Sony PCM-1600/1610/1630 had about the worst converters I've ever heard. As in worse than an original MBox. This is the stuff that gave digital a bad name in the 80s.
Old 14th August 2014
  #111
Quote:
Originally Posted by shelterr View Post
I find it incredible that people still debate whether or not clocking is real. I've owned and compared nice convertors, the clocks sound different and some are better than others. I've got countless files to prove it. Print a mix through outboard gear. Change the clock. Print it again. The files are different sounding. Debate over. It's just that easy. If you bounce the files ITB, there won't be a sound difference...which is where I think this mythology stems from.

People can debate which sound they like best all day for all I care. But pretending like there's no difference between the clock in a Fireface and a Prism is just ignorant.
The moment you go through outboard gear, which is analog and inconsistent, then you can no longer prove anything and ears tend to hear what they want to, based on expectations. The proof of testing a clock is to run two loops, with NO other outboard gear from your DA directly into your AD. Clock one with one clock and the other with another clock. See if people hear a difference blind and can all consistently pick which is which, and see what analyzing software picks up for difference between them (if any). As you said, when rendering ITB, even in realtime, there is no resulting difference between files rendered using different clocks.
Old 14th August 2014
  #112
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcgood View Post
Speaking of gearslutz lore, people really need to stop posting about nulling files and how that proves there isn't a difference between two things.
A null test can indeed prove there is no difference between two particular audio files. That's the point of the null test. If two files perfectly null and you claim there is a difference, you are quite literally wrong. I've never had an example of perfectly nulling files where a group of people can pick them out blind with any reliability at all. The fact that they null means they are equal. It's as simple as 1-1=0. There is no hidden magic in digital audio. It's all math.
Old 14th August 2014
  #113
Gear Maniac
 

Hi all:
I have an Orion 32 and I've heard the Orion 32 clocked to the 10M off and on at 2014 Namm.

1. when the 10M is On, the sound is wider, like more 3D, and the bottom more enhanced.
Marcell was there to push the button in and out.
I mean you can hear it that the 10M actually has an effect on the sound.
A lot, no, just enough for me to hear the difference.
But what bothers me about this whole 10M is the issue of the internal clock of the Orion 32. Is the internal clock that bad, that we need a clock of twice the price of the Orion 32 to hear just a slight improvement.
If the clock were to be like $1500, yes I would have gone for it.

2. also this business of the 10M clocked to the Orion 32 is so against Lavry's theory that the internal clock of any good converter is the best clock.

I can't figure it out. But the 10M does change the sound in a positive way. No doubt.
dan le
Old 14th August 2014
  #114
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan le View Post
Hi all:
I have an Orion 32 and I've heard the Orion 32 clocked to the 10M off and on at 2014 Namm.

1. when the 10M is On, the sound is wider, like more 3D, and the bottom more enhanced.
Marcell was there to push the button in and out.
I mean you can hear it that the 10M actually has an effect on the sound.
A lot, no, just enough for me to hear the difference.
But what bothers me about this whole 10M is the issue of the internal clock of the Orion 32. Is the internal clock that bad, that we need a clock of twice the price of the Orion 32 to hear just a slight improvement.
If the clock were to be like $1500, yes I would have gone for it.

2. also this business of the 10M clocked to the Orion 32 is so against Lavry's theory that the internal clock of any good converter is the best clock.

I can't figure it out. But the 10M does change the sound in a positive way. No doubt.
dan le
And the next question is, will anyone else be able hear that difference when listening to the digital audio on a different DAC/clock, and how can you ever be sure whether what you're hearing has to do with the DAC you are feeding to your speakers or what is actually being recorded back in a DA/AD loop unless you test? I believe there can be some small tiny differences heard when a button is pushed and a new clock is introduced, for a variety of reasons, but claims that one particular clock has "bigger deeper bass" and things of that nature should be easily proven with a few loopback tests and some frequency analysis. Anytime there is a real difference with digital audio that means there is math somewhere that can be tested and proven. In the end it's all 1's and 0's saved on a hard drive. That said, nothing wrong with following your ears and your emotions when it comes to music and art. Sometimes simply thinking a piece of gear is "better" will inspire us to make better music/mixes with it. Faith in our gear has it's own value.
Old 14th August 2014
  #115
Lives for gear
 
burns46824's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan le View Post
Hi all:
I have an Orion 32 and I've heard the Orion 32 clocked to the 10M off and on at 2014 Namm.

1. when the 10M is On, the sound is wider, like more 3D, and the bottom more enhanced.
Marcell was there to push the button in and out.
I mean you can hear it that the 10M actually has an effect on the sound.
A lot, no, just enough for me to hear the difference.
Good to hear. I have a 10M, so I want to try tracking with an Orion 32.
Old 14th August 2014
  #116
Lives for gear
 
funka's Avatar
Quote:
I mean you can hear it that the 10M actually has an effect on the sound.
But is this hearable effect a positive one? Who knows...
Maybe it is pleasing the ears, but maybe jitter is doing that effect.
Old 14th August 2014
  #117
Gear Nut
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dan le View Post
Hi all:
I have an Orion 32 and I've heard the Orion 32 clocked to the 10M off and on at 2014 Namm.

1. when the 10M is On, the sound is wider, like more 3D, and the bottom more enhanced.
Marcell was there to push the button in and out.
I mean you can hear it that the 10M actually has an effect on the sound.
A lot, no, just enough for me to hear the difference.
But what bothers me about this whole 10M is the issue of the internal clock of the Orion 32. Is the internal clock that bad, that we need a clock of twice the price of the Orion 32 to hear just a slight improvement.
If the clock were to be like $1500, yes I would have gone for it.

2. also this business of the 10M clocked to the Orion 32 is so against Lavry's theory that the internal clock of any good converter is the best clock.

I can't figure it out. But the 10M does change the sound in a positive way. No doubt.
dan le

At the end of the day, if buying a 10M clock improves the business and clients willing pay that increase in mixing fee, why not?

If someone has too much money, bankrolled by their rich family, doesn't need to run on profit, why not?


I've seen sub-standard mixes on songs, but that didn't stop the song from becoming a hit! Perhaps, the melody, lyrics and arrangement could be more important.

So really, the consumer can't tell the difference and don't care.
Old 14th August 2014
  #118
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelterr View Post
I find it incredible that people still debate whether or not clocking is real. I've owned and compared nice convertors, the clocks sound different and some are better than others. I've got countless files to prove it. Print a mix through outboard gear. Change the clock. Print it again. The files are different sounding. Debate over. It's just that easy. If you bounce the files ITB, there won't be a sound difference...which is where I think this mythology stems from.

People can debate which sound they like best all day for all I care. But pretending like there's no difference between the clock in a Fireface and a Prism is just ignorant.
word. something as little as a few picoseconds of jitter is audble. compare that to the vast sample interval of a redbook file. no wonder clocking matters. this is what is called a no-brainer!
Old 14th August 2014
  #119
181483
Guest
I don't need any science to confirm that my ears prefer the sound of my Metric Halo converters clocked by my Burl B2 ADC.
Old 14th August 2014
  #120
Lives for gear
 
Slug1's Avatar
There is an interesting old article in SOS on clocking where they tested some, now much older, converters using technical testing with test tones. What I got from it was that different converters deal with clocking differently. There are some converters that do not do well with external clocking and do much better with their own internal clock. However, there were some converters that dealt with external clocking a lot better (I think it was Orpheus), where the external clock worked nearly as good as the internal clock. I have seen in numerous threads how Anelop converters tend to sound better with 10M. It would be good to see if it also sounds different/better if its clocked to another master clock. I actually think that the 10M does modify/improve its sound. But I wonder if other clocks can do something similar.
Topic:
Post Reply

Welcome to the Gearslutz Pro Audio Community!

Registration benefits include:
  • The ability to reply to and create new discussions
  • Access to members-only giveaways & competitions
  • Interact with VIP industry experts in our guest Q&As
  • Access to members-only sub forum discussions
  • Access to members-only Chat Room
  • Get INSTANT ACCESS to the world's best private pro audio Classifieds for only USD $20/year
  • Promote your eBay auctions and Reverb.com listings for free
  • Remove this message!
You need an account to post a reply. Create a username and password below and an account will be created and your post entered.


 
 
Slide to join now Processing…
Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Forum Jump
Forum Jump