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original neve 1073 2nd output ???
Old 6th June 2014
  #1
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jwh1192's Avatar
original neve 1073 2nd output ???

hi all, does anyone know if there is a 2nd output on the multi-pin connector of an original 1073 ??? was thinking if there is, i would wire up the 2nd output for a low-latency headphone mix send - instead of splitting the signal with an outboard splitter on the one output i have …

thank you so much ..

john
Old 6th June 2014
  #2
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nickelironsteel's Avatar
 

Patchbay?
Old 6th June 2014
  #3
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jwh1192's Avatar
Hi NIS, trying to get it direct from the Pre not Splitting it through a patch bay (half normal) or external splitter / i do have a patch bay and external splitters of my own to use but i do not wish to do that here … thx john
Old 6th June 2014
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 View Post
a 2nd output on the multi-pin connector of an original 1073 ???
There is an unbalanced output at pin P.
Old 6th June 2014
  #5
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ahh .. thats cool .. i can deal with unbalanced for this purpose … thx cathode .. i will start looking but do you happen to have the pinout handy ? if not, now worries i will find one .. thx again
Old 6th June 2014
  #6
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not assuming it would be but - how about a 1081 ? i have one of them as well .. for got to add that originally … thx
Old 6th June 2014
  #7
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Pin P provides a lower level, unbalanced output from the module. You will, of course, need to connect a 'ground' for you output connector too, which should be pin E (not pin V 'earth').

Make sure when connecting this output that you do not make a second connection between pins E and V or you can have hum. Pins E and V should only connect at one point, ideally, to keep the unit nice and quiet.

Also, put a blocking cap between in P and your output connector. A 470uF/25v electro would be fine, "+" side toward the module.

Joel
Old 7th June 2014
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rascal Audio View Post
Also, put a blocking cap between in P and your output connector. A 470uF/25v electro would be fine, "+" side toward the module.
Joel
A blocking capacitor is not necessary, there is no meaningful amount of DC at pin P.
Attached Thumbnails
original neve 1073 2nd output ???-f_p.jpg   original neve 1073 2nd output ???-output.jpg  
Old 7th June 2014
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cathode View Post
A blocking capacitor is not necessary, there is no meaningful amount of DC at pin P.
I would agree, but I have had a couple of odd experiences, many years back, with related circuits. The 1073's pin P is just the 283AV pcb pin F brought to the connector on the back of the module. In circuits where I loaded 283AV pins B&M with a T1310 inductor (instead of the primaries of an LO1166 output transformer) and then used pin F for my actual output (through a Jensen 123 or API 2503-type transformer wired 1:2), without the blocking cap I would often get a noise when connecting it to other gear in a bantam patchbay. Only disconnecting and reconnecting the output XLR from the back of the unit would stop this noise. So I inserted a blocking cap between pin F and the o/p transformer, and the issue ceased.

Built several EQ's using this output stage for some folks this way. Must have been a decade ago now, and I never did investigate further. Would be good to get to the bottom of it when I get some more time, but since the blocking cap solved it keep that in mind if you experience anything similar.

Joel
Old 7th June 2014
  #10
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jwh1192's Avatar
Thx guys for all the information.
Old 7th June 2014
  #11
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Hi

Re the odd noises, the units didn't do this when they were new and the B283/AV and /AM are perfectly capable of driving both an LO1166 inside the module and a LO2567 outside from the same card and without external capacitors.

A classic example is any of the big music consoles before the 8058/68 that used a 1271 to drive the monitor output from R & T and the studio loudspeaker path from the LO2567 hanging on pin P.

We had zero issues with this set up so if weird things are happening 35+ years down the road then obviously something has changed. Component degradation or non standard components (i.e. transformers with different impedance characteristics) may be creating the issue.

But well maintained Neve amplifiers driving similar parts to which they were designed should not have an issue.

My 2c

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Old 8th June 2014
  #12
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Geoff, thank you for your reply. Sounds like good news on using Pin "P" for my 2nd output. I am not near the unit or a proper computer at the moment but i saw someone put up a diagram .. I assume i will need to pick up a ground as well for the unbalanced connector. I have a boutique rack with 2 units so i plan on adding the 2nd connector to the back side. Drill a hole and make it neat and pretty.

Thx again gentlemen for all the help

John
Old 8th June 2014
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 View Post
Geoff, thank you for your reply. Sounds like good news on using Pin "P" for my 2nd output. I am not near the unit or a proper computer at the moment but i saw someone put up a diagram .. I assume i will need to pick up a ground as well for the unbalanced connector. I have a boutique rack with 2 units so i plan on adding the 2nd connector to the back side. Drill a hole and make it neat and pretty.

Thx again gentlemen for all the help

John
Hi

You take the 0v return from pin E.

It's designed to drive a transformer like the LO2567 but, if you want to use it unbalanced, I might suggest a resistor in series with the signal in case you short circuit it. The B283 won't like being shorted, so something like 240 ohms would give it protection. The transformer primary impedance is around 200 ohms.

Not knowing the condition of the module and it's capacitors, you might think it worth changing the capacitors on the BA283, especially the two big ones next to the heat sink.

Posted from my Samsung Galaxy S5
Old 8th June 2014
  #14
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jwh1192's Avatar
Geoff, is there a way to get a balanced signal ? You said "If i want an unbalanced signal. Would rather have balanced in case i would like to drive a longer cable. Copy your suggestion on the chanhing of the Caps and 240 ohm resistor. The units serial #'s seem to suggest late 70's and they are rackmount in Boutque Audio Rack. I tried to contact them once but never received a reply. I bought them from a keyboard player that needed money. He had a hard time giving them up .. As i would if ever sold. Not a crazy "N" fanboy just a fan of these units.

Thx again john.
Old 9th June 2014
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwh1192 View Post
Geoff, is there a way to get a balanced signal ? You said "If i want an unbalanced signal. Would rather have balanced in case i would like to drive a longer cable. Copy your suggestion on the chanhing of the Caps and 240 ohm resistor. The units serial #'s seem to suggest late 70's and they are rackmount in Boutque Audio Rack. I tried to contact them once but never received a reply. I bought them from a keyboard player that needed money. He had a hard time giving them up .. As i would if ever sold. Not a crazy "N" fanboy just a fan of these units.

Thx again john.
Hi

The only way you can get balanced is to forget the 240 ohm resistor and wire a LO2567 equivalent transformer there. If you contact Colin at http://www.audiomaintenance.com/acat...Inductors.html in the UK no doubt he can supply and advise fitting.

If a Boutique rack check the insulation and clearances near the ac power switch... I have a recollection of an issue but haven't seen inside one for over ten years.
Old 10th June 2014
  #16
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jwh1192's Avatar
great idea Geoff, thank you so much .. i was just thinking about a transformer in the signal as well .. cheers john
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