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ATC SCM25A: subwoofer options? Studio Monitors
Old 8th December 2016
  #31
Gear Nut
 

Variable Crossover

A big +1 for the Variable Crossover.

Have always loved the Bag End stuff,,, but the lack of a variable crossover on the Subwoofer Pros is a deal killer for me.

Is adding this Currently in the works, or just on the "to-do" list?

Thanks,
Joe
Old 9th December 2016
  #32
Lives for gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic Joe View Post
A big +1 for the Variable Crossover.

Have always loved the Bag End stuff,,, but the lack of a variable crossover on the Subwoofer Pros is a deal killer for me.

Is adding this Currently in the works, or just on the "to-do" list?

Thanks,
Joe
There are outboard solutions yes? Dangerous is one with a variable selection for sub crossover points, the lowest being 52 Hz I believe? Maybe a bit lower than the 25s need?

Variable LP, its in engineering, its being worked on RIGHT NOW, but it takes time.

For ATC 20s, the crossover in the Sub Pros is perfect. And BTW, you say you love Bag End, but they use the identical 95Hz crossover.

Some people like the mains full range and the sub added in; depending on how you do it, this can work just fine with crossover as is. Obviously not for you! There are so many different ways to set up subs with mains, this way will of course not work for all, but does work for a lot of situations. But many like the non DSP sub that set tip for only one set of mains. Many like the 5.1 bass management on the back, especially in LA where so much post is happening. Many like very low distortion compared to 90% of the other subs that have the controls you seek but sound nasty.

The very best sub I know of is the ATC. it does indeed have the variable low pass.

Brad




< Bag End is the same
Old 9th December 2016
  #33
Gear Addict
 

Not trying to nitpick but since this thread has involved several different speaker sizes requiring different rolloff frequencies - the Dangerous Remote is actually 57 Hz.

Only drawback there is that the rolloff is only available on the third set of inputs - which is stereo only (which works for most people). The first two inputs have 8 inputs so they can handle up to 7.1 - but no rolloff available for surround or multiple speaker configurations.

.
Old 11th December 2016
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Weaver View Post
Not trying to nitpick but since this thread has involved several different speaker sizes requiring different rolloff frequencies - the Dangerous Remote is actually 57 Hz.

Only drawback there is that the rolloff is only available on the third set of inputs - which is stereo only (which works for most people). The first two inputs have 8 inputs so they can handle up to 7.1 - but no rolloff available for surround or multiple speaker configurations.

.
Thanks for the correction Jack.

As I say we are working on this issue, it is thorny one and points out why I started Subwoofer Pros to start with: we need a better set of solutions!

We already have a close to ideal set up with ATC 20As. Sub pros 12, using the built in LP or run full range, either way works. Sub Polarity inverted. The 5.1 bass manager (analog) on back of the sub is helpful, we've already placed a number of 5.1 Sub Pros systems. The 20As was step 1.

Step 2 is the 25. I am getting positive reports from a number of people with 25s using the port plugs, run full range, single sub pros 12, polarity inverted, on the floor offset between the 25s. This sounds quite good to a lot of us. We are also getting positives from people using the LP filter in the sub to the 25 (without port plugs) IF the sub is next to the 25 on the same stand. This is perhaps better than the floor sub due to room issues (having two subs not centered in the room is helpful in many cases).

We are deep in the engineering of how to get to the next level with variable LF roll off, still using the infrasonic system, so we can still get very LF.

We have slave subs coming soon, so you can easily have multiples daisy chained easily around the room. (this makes the Sub Mute Pedal more meaningful).

We want to use these excellent Sub Pros subs with larger ATCs. Despite some obstacles, I still think these subs sound better than anything else I know of, other than going up in price dramatically. We will get there.

We are still recommending the ATC 15 sub for larger set ups.

So what you are seeing here in last quarter of 2016 from Sub Pros is not our end game, but our beginning. There is much more to come.

Brad
Old 5th June 2018
  #35
Gear Addict
 
loji's Avatar
Curious where the state of this is now-a-days ...

I'm running a pair of SCM20 ASL at home, and am considering a pair of Velodyne DD10+ to flesh it out. . . Extremely low distortion, sealed box design .... seems a good match for the ATC philosophy

Also .. with the ATC 20 on top of the sub, how are you decoupling the speaker form the sub? I mean it's 60lbs, but is there a sorbothane or something between them to keep the sub from 'rocking' the speaker and messing up the image?
Old 5th June 2018
  #36
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can recommend the neumann kh-805 for stereo and the kh-810 for surround systems - and of course some external dsp for proper alignment!
Old 6th June 2018
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loji View Post
Curious where the state of this is now-a-days ...

I'm running a pair of SCM20 ASL at home, and am considering a pair of Velodyne DD10+ to flesh it out. . . Extremely low distortion, sealed box design .... seems a good match for the ATC philosophy

Also .. with the ATC 20 on top of the sub, how are you decoupling the speaker form the sub? I mean it's 60lbs, but is there a sorbothane or something between them to keep the sub from 'rocking' the speaker and messing up the image?
We've been moving right along and there have been multiple sales of 20s and Studio Sub 12's. If you use the sound anchors, each 20 and sub sit on their own "plate" which is attached to the stand. We've used sorbothane before too in a stack, but the Sound Anchor solution is better in my view. Image disruption has not been one of the reasons, I've not encountered this is all the testing or demos we've done.

I used the Velodynes long long ago, never with ATC, and I do not remember his philosophy on slopes, HP/LP frequencies, etc and how he applies his DSP. Could be good with 20s, might not. Most of the other subs I've tried with ATC's "don't filter the mains" idea don't work so well. Some have no way to use them without their "mains HP filter" in line.

I know these work correctly. I know they Sub Pros Studios Subs measure well and are not a phase mess. I know they also use ATC's preferred gentle sub slopes and have a built in LP filter so you aren't inadvertently sending 100Hz + through the sub. I know SPL wise they hold up with the ATC's side by side. We used Studio Sub 12's (95Hz LP filter) with 25s and 20s, 18s (60Hz LP filter) with larger ATC"s.

We are nearly done with our subwoofer controller box that offers variable LP frequency choices and a lot of the other features one needs to add subs to larger and different brand mains without making things worse. We even have 4 sub outs for distributed sub placements for even low end in a very small room- something that has been impossible in most circumstances. SO lots of progress. Owners seem very happy, no failures, our big issue is we cannot get enough of them.

Brad

Bad
Old 6th June 2018
  #38
What's the price on the Sub 12s and 18s Brad? Can't find a price list on your site.
Old 6th June 2018
  #39
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AlexK's Avatar
 

Still interested as you probably know Brad. What more can you tell us about the sub controller? Apart from the Bryson box which is phenomenally expensive for what it is there doesn’t really seem to be anything which ticks the boxes for me...
Old 6th June 2018
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexK View Post
Still interested as you probably know Brad. What more can you tell us about the sub controller? Apart from the Bryson box which is phenomenally expensive for what it is there doesn’t really seem to be anything which ticks the boxes for me...
I'll do an update shortly. Just finishing testing and finalizing menus.
Brad
Old 6th June 2018
  #41
And the prices?
Old 6th June 2018
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermetech Mastering View Post
And the prices?
Studio Sub 12 $2550 List, $2290 MAP (95Hz HP standard, 60Hz special order)
Studio Sub 18 $2950 List, $2690 MAP (60Hz HP standard, 95Hz special order)

The "Sub Doctor" $1995 US list, $1799 MAP- with any quantity of subs $1599

Half rack size Sub/Main controller box with variable filters, slopes, EQ, delay and fixed limiter. Stereo analog in, 6 out including stereo mains + 4 independent subs; foot switch control of HP or full range (programmable). Shipping Q4 2018

Brad
Old 6th June 2018
  #43
Thanks Brad. Do you recommend one or two Sub 12s for the old school SCM 20 ASL Pros? I'd imagine a pair would be best.
Old 28th March 2019
  #44
Here for the gear
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Lunde View Post
I'll do an update shortly. Just finishing testing and finalizing menus.
Brad
Any updates on this or variable crossover?

Cheers!
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